The enemy armour rework may have gone a little overboard and made them too weak

[Venus-Venera]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb vondragon1:

Skimmed through the thread but I think 90% fine for normal mode but steel path should have had a 99% (or even 99.9%) cap. When it was 1st introduced steel path was the hard mode and what encouraged you to build better now it just a free resource drop chance and mod drop chance booster

We urgently need it so that new players can get by. Because almost all ranged weapons in the game are rubbish and don't do/didn't do enough damage. And there's also a lack of ammo.

[FiveN9ne]

To recap DE's strategy of adjusting enemies.

First we had super tanky enemies that had trillions of EHP and damage used to fall off quickly (before we had many sources of buffs and broken weapons). Then they were nerfed to enemies we knew before the last update making the new level cap the same as around lvl400 of original enemies. Then Steel Path was added to boost them back up a bit because they were too weak. And now we have nuked their DR completely. Very logical and consistent /s

Overall, i think upfront damage got hugely buffed up to certain levels, while anyone doing armor strip or using slash/other dots in endurance got nerfed since HP is much higher. Demolishers are like 6x tankier after the update. People who think enemies are paper are only playing base Steel Path, which is fine but ultimately irrelevant as both prior and after the changes you could kill them easily with just about anything.

Oh, i also am not a big fan of the faction weaknesses changes. They just did it to simplify and unify damage but it does nothing. So called strongest element against a faction not even being the strongest while the game advises you to use it (looking at you corrosive vs grineer) is laughable. At this point why not just remove any and all resistances and vulnerabilities because they seem largely pointless.

[SabreWalrus]

16 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

Demolishers are like 6x tankier after the update.

I think this is a good thing. Genuinely wish Thrax had got tougher. They seem to have been overlooked for health/Overguard buffs, which I was actually expecting to happen since they're not under the umbrella of "Grineer", but I do hope it's a genuine oversight and that they can get a health buff soon. We even received a 50% buff to Amp damage vs their Spectral form thanks to their new Void vulnerability, but again, no health increase. We want our minibosses to be minibosses!

 

18 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

So called strongest element against a faction not even being the strongest while the game advises you to use it (looking at you corrosive vs grineer) is laughable.

Viral does continue to be silly, because even against something that's 50% resistant to it, if it can stack its status it just buffs itself by 325%... so yeah. I imagine people would be deeply upset by a Viral nerf though.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

7 hours ago, SabreWalrus said:

Viral does continue to be silly, because even against something that's 50% resistant to it, if it can stack its status it just buffs itself by 325%... so yeah. I imagine people would be deeply upset by a Viral nerf though.

Viral shouldn't be nerfed. Resistances should actually function. Viral being the best against the new Murmur faction they specifically designed to be resistant to it? How did that slip by? Kuva Grineer are supposed to resist Heat, yet you're still going to nuke them with pure Heat on your weapons. What was the point? The only one they got right was Deimos Infested both resisting the Viral type and being fully immune to the proc. Leaping Thrashers might now be the best Sim dummies.

[SabreWalrus]

2 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Viral shouldn't be nerfed. Resistances should actually function. Viral being the best against the new Murmur faction they specifically designed to be resistant to it? How did that slip by? Kuva Grineer are supposed to resist Heat, yet you're still going to nuke them with pure Heat on your weapons. What was the point? The only one they got right was Deimos Infested both resisting the Viral type and being fully immune to the proc. Leaping Thrashers might now be the best Sim dummies.

It would be interesting if all resistances to a damage type automatically meant those units are also immune to its status effect

[Rexis12]

50 minutes ago, SabreWalrus said:

It would be interesting if all resistances to a damage type automatically meant those units are also immune to its status effect

No? 

That would be a horrible idea, especially in regards of using the status as utility for the status effects.

 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, SabreWalrus said:

It would be interesting if all resistances to a damage type automatically meant those units are also immune to its status effect

Now I'm wondering what the point is at all. Hey, don't use this element! Does that make the build system more interesting? Is it cool and fun that Corpus Amalgams screw over Blast damage? Oh no, now I guess I'll just have to build for Viral instead, how terrible! In other games like Borderlands there's a clear RPS style thing going on.

[Voltage]

I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but I'm also not oblivious to who the target demographic has shifted towards for 4-5 years now. Since Warframe Revised, it's been clear with the way content is designed (Removal of self-damage/AoE weapon powercreep, Helminth, Archon Shards, On Call Railjack Crew, Sentient Surge Ocucor, Incarnon Adapters, Decrees, Random Arcane Packs, Ascension with no mission fail state, Void Sling replacing Void Dash, a single real Operation in 5 years, etc.) that the target audience has shifted towards a "lowest common denominator" approach. (Elite) Deep Archimedea gave me a glimpse of hope for properly rewarded build competency and understanding of the game, but that's also been neutered by undermining the value of Crescendo and Duplicate with the Arcane Dissolution system as well as this status/damage rework heavily nerfing enemies when it wasn't necessary.

For the most part, we've reached a point where the game plays itself if you figure out how that is achieved. DE knows this too, hence why Jade Light Eximus were added.

This is probably not a popular opinion on this topic, but DE could leave these status/damage changes as they are and consider a Steel Path rework in its place to become a true mission modifier across all gamemodes within the game that adds appropriate rewards so that the Steel Path becomes a graduated progression stepping stone, and once a player reaches that, they are heavily motivated to leave that toggled on so their experience going forward becomes one of a higher level content that is less optional for what lies ahead for rewards where their performance is more weighted in their build knowledge.

I'm just rambling, but I don't believe this damage/status rework is by itself a problem, it's the fact the gameplay has transformed into allowing complete build ignorance for success with no consequences or rewards locked solely to those who figure things out.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

11 hours ago, Voltage said:

DE could leave these status/damage changes as they are and consider a Steel Path rework in its place

This would be awesome.

On 2024-06-25 at 6:43 AM, FiveN9ne said:

People who think enemies are paper are only playing base Steel Path, which is fine but ultimately irrelevant as both prior and after the changes you could kill them easily with just about anything.

Revenant Torid etc etc. This is why we need a full SP rework. Also no more slogging through X hours of low level enemies to get to the high level ones.

[Lord_Drod]

20 hours ago, Voltage said:

(Elite) Deep Archimedea gave me a glimpse of hope for properly rewarded build competency and understanding of the game, but that's also been neutered by undermining the value of Crescendo and Duplicate with the Arcane Dissolution system as well as this status/damage rework heavily nerfing enemies when it wasn't necessary.

The main draw of EDA is shards though.  All you want is just a nice plat farm?  And you knew they were gonna add those to the system eventually.  Without shards, what is DE going to dangle above our heads to get us to weekly engage the way they want?  They have to offer a unique reward.  Also, are you saying helminth has overall been bad for the game?  I actually think it's been good. 

And, let's be honest, it's not like a failstate would really make a big difference on Ascension.  If anything, more people would protect the objective leading to slower completion times and basically more AFK play.  I'm not against a failstate, but it didn't really bother me.  It's a non endless mission, so it would be hard to fail.

If they want to add a harder mode beyond SP, that would be cool too, but what are the rewards that you desire?  I don't even really care about shards that much, but yes I still do farm them each week and I did do Kahl.  I honestly wish they had done more with Kahl.  I prefer them adding new tiles, game modes and play than just adding modifiers to old content.

Edited 11 hours ago by Lord_Drod