Jade Design Feedback

[Kuroi_Aurgnet]

just for anyone confused, there was some... "discourse" that occured in here. Much of it has been deleted by mods, because it was inappropriate for these forums, contained a lot of... inflammatory language, and was overall just off topic. You may occasionally see references to those posts.

[BlackChad33]

Please add the toggle for no pregnancy then nuke this thread from orbit. 

 

Thanks

[inappropriatename5877]

On 2024-06-22 at 12:29 PM, OhDeerG said:

Like you're telling me I can push power strength well over 200% with a complimentary 190% range and she still struggles in level 50 missions without bringing the at least halfway decent gear to do the heavy lifting? Cmon.

Guy doesn't know how to build a frame and it shows.
Cmon dude, she even has 2 forma slots and you STILL manage to screw the build?
I got like 130 str and 175 range, and I can still reliably solo some SP Sedna, and that's not even minmaxing, or bringing heavy duty weaponry, just her 4.
She is pretty strong and can bring some decent survivability and damage to the entire team with her buffs that can be changed on the fly.

Also, her design that pretty much equates motherhood with an angelic presence is awesome, and I'm really sorry that you feel weird about it.

[OhDeerG]

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Guy doesn't know how to build a frame and it shows. Cmon dude

Resent usage of 'guy' and 'dude', not your buddy pal.

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

2 forma slots

Aura, nice fumble.

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

I got like 130 str and 175 range, and I can still reliably solo some SP Sedna, and that's not even minmaxing, or bringing heavy duty weaponry, just her 4.

Post the build gamer, if yours is so great. I'd post mine but she went into the grinder and I'm not fishing that back out. I bet you use overframe.

Also "just her 4", relying on the exalted weapon is super cool and original, Titania is weeping at her schtick being bootlegged.

Listen you can like playing the bland ass pregnant moth but don't act like "usable in steel path" is some indicator of quality, steel path is as cheesable as anything else.

Edited June 25 by OhDeerG

[Venus-Venera]

Am 22.6.2024 um 11:29 schrieb OhDeerG:

Second, her kit is so middle of the road boring. The only fun I could see having is pushing the power strength bonus from Power of the Seven up as high as possible to mess with Speedvas. Like you're telling me I can push power strength well over 200% with a complimentary 190% range and she still struggles in level 50 missions without bringing the at least halfway decent gear to do the heavy lifting? Cmon.

what does that mean? or google translate has difficulty here. so I don't understand what exactly it's about. if it the build difficulties - there are more than enough at the moment. and since I, like many others, play with all warframes, it's actually quite easy to achieve good performance.

I played Elite Deep Archimedea with this build this week and there were leg2-4 accounts in the group. so people with experience and knowledge and maybe not with the optimal gear. and I had the most damage in the group. so her weapon really destroyed the enemies. especially the mechs went down much better than a few weeks ago with other loadout.

quote from the other topic:

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Venus-Venera:

I'll stick with that one. build is for sp circuit / eda. Actually, I could still add Helmih skill with aug mod. But I don't want to deal with it anymore. My ears are already bleeding from the "great" sound spam...
The weapon has primed heat + rad proc. 5x tau yellow shards for energy. Maybe not that much needed. However, I ran out of energy 3 times in EDA Surv and I can't rely on arcane energize. So there's no blind rage in it either. I can currently build a green shard. So for SP circuit probably 1x tau green and a couple of yellow ones.

 

Edited June 25 by Venus-Venera

[inappropriatename5877]

5 hours ago, OhDeerG said:

Post the build gamer, if yours is so great.

Aura slots: Steel Charge and Aerodynamic
Top 4 slots: Adaptation (rank 8), Streamline, Augur Reach, Intensify
Bottom 4 slots: Primed Continuity, Stretch, Primed Flow, Primed Redirection
Exilus: Power Drift
Arcanes: Arcane Energize rank 2, Arcane Aegis rank 4
No Helminth Abilities
No forma
No Archon shards
Companion: Smeeta Kavat focused on Charm
Operator: Zenurik with Hardened Wellspring and Temporal Drag

Exatled Glory build:  Hornet Strike, Pathogen Rounds, Frostbite, Primed Heated Charge, Galvanized Diffusion, Galvanized Shot, Lethal Torrent, Accelerated Isotope
This build gives me a mix of Radiation, Heat, and Viral damage with a status chance of 48%

This is not even a top tier build (also thanks for reminding me that overframe is a thing, so i can continue ignoring it)

 

5 hours ago, OhDeerG said:

Also "just her 4", relying on the exalted weapon is super cool and original

I could bring more heavy duty weapons that outdamage her 4, but her 4 is too fun for me even if it's kinda not that efficient, plus I can catch more enemies in her 3 the higher I go, and I can stay there, coming down only for the occassional energy orb that will give me that 125 energy. Hell, I could even get the Grimoire for even more energy upkeep.

 

5 hours ago, OhDeerG said:

steel path is as cheesable as anything else.

Coming from the player who said and I quote: 

On 2024-06-22 at 12:29 PM, OhDeerG said:

she still struggles in level 50 missions

So either you are unable to "chesse" level 50 missions, or your build is so bad that you cannot even get past level 50 missions.

[latetier]

On 2024-06-21 at 12:50 PM, Kuroi_Aurgnet said:

As this thread goes on, it's JARRINGLY obvious what kind of people are arguing against it. It feels a lot like when Alloy had light peach fuzz and capital G gamers pitched a f*cking fit over it. It's also like when a thousand games come out without any queer characters, someone says "it would be nice to have a queer character as a protag" and then the same people are like "OH MY GOD STOP TRYING TO FORCE YOUR IDENTITY DOWN MY THROAT"

There is literally no actual argument against a toggle for this if a significant number of people feel uncomfortable by it. None. At all. The game is literally a science fantasy game. It's all made up. There is ZERO impact in either direction - so if it would be relatively little effort to have it be some auxiliary toggle and be done with it, I don't understand why so many people are taking umbridge. It would be little effort, and make a lot of people feel more comfortable, and it effects no one at all. Like... what's the argument against it REALLY? All it boils down to is a bunch of people malding because they effectively can't force people to pretend they might not have trauma. Well guess what losers, other people have feelings too, and theirs are valid too! So if you can take their feelings into consideration without doing anything that would harm yours, then why even be mad? What, are you suggesting it would be a personal sleight if some people weren't FORCED to play/see pregnant Jade? This isn't changing a game dynamic, isn't changing balance, it isn't even changing the story! There's little reason why our copy of the warframe couldn't have been manufactured to just not be pregnant, so it doesn't even conflict with lore! At the end of the day, if you're arguing against this so vehemently, it really just shows you as a person who is so personally offended by the idea of potentially caring about others that you're deliberately against it, even if it wouldn't effect you. And that speaks volumes more about you as a person than any so called overly fragile SJW types you might so despise.

I mean, really. Why get so angry about something that doesn't actually matter to you, when it DOES matter to a lot of these other people? No one is asking to change the cinematic quest, no one is asking to change her base design, her kit, her lore, anything. All we are asking for is a toggle for something that makes a lot of people deeply uncomfortable. I simply cannot fathom being offended by that idea. Literally cannot fathom it... At least, not from a rational, good faith actor.

ironically most people against a toggle are the sjw crowd, at least from what i have seen. and they go as far as to equate wanting a toggle for jade to the same thing as people hating lgbt. which is like.. what?

Edited June 25 by latetier

[OhDeerG]

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

that outdamage her 4, but her 4 is too fun for me even if it's kinda not that efficient, plus I can catch more enemies in her 3 the higher I go, and I can stay there, coming down only for the occassional energy orb

Yknow, while I was waiting for you to reply, I asked myself "What do I think they'll come back with?", just to see if I could guess, and you know, "here's my mediocre build and an admission I glue myself to the height cap of a room" was definitely on the list.

Yeah, I bet its so fun chipping away at everything from the ceiling, very good and efficient, I bet those hour+ mission times are so worth it.

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

So either you are unable to "chesse" level 50 missions, or your build is so bad that you cannot even get past level 50 missions.

Yeah, gamer, I really don't want to sit at height cap to chip down every enemy for 5 minutes, you caught me.

Are you implying I haven't completed the star chart? Are you that much of a 5head?

[inappropriatename5877]

3 hours ago, OhDeerG said:

here's my mediocre build

That got me to SP and beyond. No idea what you thought you did here, but ok.

Genuine question: As per your comment,

On 2024-06-22 at 12:29 PM, OhDeerG said:

she still struggles in level 50 missions without bringing the at least halfway decent gear to do the heavy lifting

I am curious, do you even know how Jade is supposed to operate? You don't want to rely on her exalted weapon, and your comment implies that you also don't want to bring the same old strong weapons in order to be effective with her. Her kit has no significant damage dealing ability aside from her 4. By this logic, Jade for you is useless. 

 

3 hours ago, OhDeerG said:

Are you implying I haven't completed the star chart?

I am implying that your inability to build the easiest frame out there does kinda show that you are at least lazy. You could have gotten her to 30, popped in a reactor and experimented with her on the simulacrum, but you instead chose to base your views about her supposed usage, on the way she played while under rank 30. You cannot gleam the full effectiveness of a frame pre rank 30, you can only kinda get a feel for its abilities. 

For me, Jade and her weapon set is fantastic, as I can not only buff the S#&$ out of my allies and slow enemies to a crawl, I can also rain death from above while looking benevolent as #*!%. It's just sad that you decided to complain about her while not having played her for more than 30 minutes.

[_Anise_]

2 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

For me, Jade and her weapon set is fantastic

agree 20x level 195 corrupted heavy gunners deleted in 3 seconds

 

 

[Famecans]

I don't have no one criticism with design of this warframe I really like Jade body and theme, but I think the quest was lacking in several scientific details.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb _Anise_:

agree 20x level 195 corrupted heavy gunners deleted in 3 seconds

 

 

no wonder, because it's a catch-up update. So ranged weapons with unlimited ammo, event for the best arcanes in the game and a very strong warframe that can heal itself and is useful for the group.

but the whole thing will definitely not last long. It will also be ruined before another big update.

[Laz0rEule]

While the amount of people feeling uncomfortably with the female anatomy and pregnancy in general is suprising to me, I am more astounished by the fact how many people equate Warframes to humans. So sending a pregnant human to the battlefield and fighting with the recreation of an fertility goddess is wildley different to me.
There are many historical examples of fighting pregnant goddesses/woman like Durga from Hiduism, Ix Chel from Mayan mythology, Leto from the greek mythology and so on.
 
Since I have really bad associations and some trauma with death and fungi I tend to stay away from Nekros and Nidus but I do not feel entitled to demand their designs changed. I know they are not for me. And I know these are MY Issues even though other people share them. 

While the amount of people feeling uncomfortably with the female anatomy and pregnancy in general is suprising to me, I am more astounished by the fact how many people equate Warframes to humans. So sending a pregnant human to the battlefield and fighting with the recreation of an fertility goddess is wildley different to me.
There are many historical examples of fighting pregnant goddesses/woman like Durga from Hiduism, Ix Chel from Mayan mythology, Leto from the greek mythology and so on.
 
Since I have really bad associations and some trauma with death and fungi I tend to stay away from Nekros and Nidus but I do not feel entitled to demand their designs changed. I know they are not for me. And I know these are MY Issues even though other people share them. 

[JavikPrime]

On 2024-06-20 at 2:11 AM, Itz2Cat said:

If you adapt this logic to other subjects, it kinda falls apart.

You could make the same case for alcohol in games, war, child exploitation and many more.

A lot of people have very large issues with these subjects. But it is up to the individual to conquer that trauma. Not for the world to adapt to their specific situations.

You're right. Games, novels, entertainment and art in general would be strangely flat and uninspiring because they would be so sanitized out of everything that could remotely cause concern. 

[Duvan_F]

So considering i quite like jade i thought i would throw in my opinion, 

 

First i would like to address the topic at hand (or the most discussed topic it seems) 

 

I think that a toggle would be best so by default when you build her she is not with child, but you can choose to turn it on. This alternative can’t simply be a remove the see true dome and orb, it is also noteworthy that the wings will have to be changed to with this aforementioned toggle, there cud also be an option in the settings to make this the model you see when in public spaces instead of whichever model the player choses, this would also have to apply when playing on public for the matchmaking. 

 

Now i wish to address the design of jade, i will start with what i dislike in more or less descending order from what i dislike the most to least. 

First of i don’t like the shape of her wings i would like if they were shorter and more triangular in nature i also think they should be thinner, (they become bigger the longer you move away from the attachment point at least for the lower body wings), i also think they cud do with having more “colour” ie lines or parts of the wings that would exabit the primary, secondary, etc colour choices, she seams verry mono coloured with her wings closed, i think that titania empress skin is a good inspiration for some changes/ addition for a new skin, i also think the wings are a bit to weightless they move more like tentacles then wings (this does not apply when glory on high is active), 

Now onto the main body i do think it cud do with more emissive‘s and i think her waist is way to thin, ye that's it. 

Now onto what i like, the fact that the wings wrap around her in a cloak/dress, is a good way to make her feel smaller and larger which makes you feel more empowered in her 4th , also the fact that the wings aren't completely rigged makes it feel more realistic as any material would most likely attempt to bend under such conditions, her main body looks awesome to me albeit a stark change from her dress, thou perhaps that's intentional as a reference to her death and life inspiration, she looks like she is wearing plated armour which makes her feel like she is a warrior as-pose to a flesh monster (looking at nidus thou not specifically), her armour also isn't leaning to much towards ether triangular or circular but the shape is chosen specifically to accommodate the movement of the human form, i kind of wish that the wings was se true so i cud see her main body a bit more purely cuss i think that is her most beautiful part. Now i do have opinion on her play style but this post is long naught as is. 

Thank you for staying with me and i wish you the reader a excellent day.

[Eli_Beeblebrox]

Welcome to dark fantasy, everything is #*!%ed up here. You're not supposed to feel comfortable. That's what high fantasy is for, go watch Lord of the Rings and cool off. Seriously, it would be good for you. You know what else would be good for you? Getting challenged by tough themes in dark fantasy. So lets go through it. You are piloting a lobotomized person who once had a will and unbroken mind of their own. That's what warframes are. I shouldn't have to remind you of this, and I shouldn't have to explain how #*!%ed up it is. I shouldn't have to explain how much more #*!%ed up it is when you're using Umbra. I shouldn't have to explain how #*!%ed up our wholesale slaughter of countless people who don't stand a chance against us is, and that's not even considering that most of them are probably innocent and don't deserve to meet such a brutal end. Yes, it's #*!%ed up that you're piloting a pregnant weapon of mass destruction with a weaponized energy fetus. Finally, you're starting to understand Warframe. You are beginning to wake up. Maybe the real second dream was the dissociation from the plot that you've been ignoring this whole time.

Sure, DE could let players blind themselves from the themes that Warframe likes to explore, but why would they? If I had produced art as beautiful and discomforting as Jade, I would be very proud of myself and do absolutely nothing but offer encouragement to the discomforted. After all, I would have ambitions to make my art even more beautiful and even more uncomfortable, so why would I let them hide from what I would consider me just getting started? Should they? Boring question. Would they? Chew on that.

[JavikPrime]

I know that adding a toggle option for the Jade's belly might seem an easy accommodation to make for the sake of the community's well-being. However, doing so can be a part of the problem. Contrary to what many might think here, emotions and reactions are not simply eternal parts of the human physiology, but has a culture bound component. The fragility expressed here is a North American thing primarily, with the exception where these things have travelled along well worn paths in the anglosphere.

Just as trigger warnings have multiplied in online spaces, there is in principle no limit to what can make people feel uncomfortable in a video game. Domestic violence triggers abound in warframe. What about Grendel? Will he not make people with a history of eating disorders uncomfortable? There is a real slippery slope here and the long term consequences needs to be taken into account, and go beyond what the loudest, most aggrieved voices say at any given time.   

In giving greater weight to claims of individual hurt, by capitulating to those who feel uncomfortable with Jade, then DE will continue to feed the cultural inclination in the player base to avoid challenging or upsetting content and to cultivate a player base that has fewer and fewer tools to manage any hardship and to transform adversity into agency.

 

[Luigispikachu]

welp, there appear to be more dismissive comments here about how a "toggle would be bad" because "It's only hiding your head in the sand". because certainly warframe is completely written the ground up about pregnancy.

 

we ask one thing and we get people ineloquently stating that our feelings are wrong and clearly games NEED to make you uncomfortable. but why? why should the media we choose to consume have to hurt us? because one person wanted to do a thing? I don't get that argument. we already have a gore toggle, but that doesn't detract from the game like at all. why would a toggle for the frame who looks like their ready to give birth be any different? why do you think the styanax nipple tassles became toggleable? because it could make people uncomfortable. I ask you again with this, would a toggle for jade really change anything for people who leave it on?

 

look at what can be toggled in game as it is. this small ask isn't exactly hurting anyone, just like all that other stuff. debate rationally or save the meanspirited and bad faith arguments for twitter.

[WanderingJoe]

A NEW CHALLENGER APROACHES!


Seems somehow this thread escaped my notice. That said, Its a great example that Its not merely the same people posting threads or replying to themselves. Yes, the ongoing discussion of.... some people don't want to play a pregnant character in perpetuity. The Toggle War, were one side sees the other as whining babies uncomfortable with women that are demanding others kowtow to them in order to make thier preference other people's problems... and those of us who just want a cosmetic option.

Lets look at it straight forwardly: Some of us want an option to make Jade's belly an auxiliary attachment. We're in the place DE is asking players for their opinion about Jade. And most importantly we're not saying other people cant enjoy her the way she currently is. Most of us are here to simply make our voices heard to DE, and we'll leave it up to them whether it's worth the extra work to make some of their players happy. At the end of the day, no matter what anyone says, it's DE's choice, not anyone who is... defending(?) them against the prospect of having to work more on their latest warframe.

Lets continue to discuss civilly and in good faith. DE will decide the outcome, no matter what any of us say. I will continue to advocate what I think would be the best outcome for any and all players in the discussion. I advise you all to do the same, and perhaps speak more about why you personally feel the way you do about her than arguing. A show of different stories and reasoning is something I think would be more productive than simple back and forth bickering.

Edited Saturday at 12:27 AM by WanderingJoe

[TheCursedUltima]

For me, the only reason I’d be against a toggle would be because it could mean that future skins (both Tennogen and Deluxe) would have to come with two versions, which could make them more rare due to having to cater to both versions - but it could also prompt for more innovative designs that’d work with and without a belly, since if they focused more on one side than the other it’d cause the other to feel left out.

Other than that, in my opinion the pregnancy helps to lean into the whole ‘life’ aspect of her amazing Warframe design, by removing it she becomes just an angel: still cool but dropping a fairly important aspect of the character - ‘life’. But that’s my opinion and I understand if personal issues overshadow it for others.

However, I get why people would be averse to playing her as a few have already voiced - obviously it’d be nice to cater for the problems they have with the design; but there are those who don’t like the pregnancy, those who don’t care and those who really enjoy it.

Naturally it’s something that’s going to generate a bit of talk regarding it, and there is no real right side - except from the fact that to some it wasn’t obvious that Jade is pregnant before they brought her (due to the spoiler stuff going on, a good idea for lore, but it probably would’ve been a good idea to not allow people to buy Jade until either they did the quest or the spoiler period ran out - also changing some of her in-game presentation to make it more clear that she’s pregnant).

That concludes my little input into this mixing pot since it’s nice to get different points of views; overall I’m fine with a toggle as long as they don’t mess with the belly at it is now and that it won’t cause slower rates of cosmetics for her, but I’m in favour of keeping the belly at the end of the day.

[SirKeksalot]

4 minutes ago, TheCursedUltima said:

For me, the only reason I’d be against a toggle would be because it could mean that future skins (both Tennogen and Deluxe) would have to come with two versions, which could make them more rare due to having to cater to both versions - but it could also prompt for more innovative designs that’d work with and without a belly, since if they focused more on one side than the other it’d cause the other to feel left out.

The logistics behind skins are a legitimate concern, and one I've considered myself. But, giving it some thought, how much work is it to simply flatten out that part of her model for the "unpregged" variants of her default and future skins? Keep the details and the see-through section, but don't make it protrude like a pregnancy. It might be awkward if a skin would have something on or in her belly, but it sounds relatively cheap in terms of asset creation, so while skins may be slightly rarer, they probably won't be nonexistent. And either way, I'll hardly object to having less crap to buy.

[Thanatos9t]

1 hour ago, SirKeksalot said:

The logistics behind skins are a legitimate concern, and one I've considered myself. But, giving it some thought, how much work is it to simply flatten out that part of her model for the "unpregged" variants of her default and future skins? Keep the details and the see-through section, but don't make it protrude like a pregnancy.

I think another potential concern around her model's design is that she's not just a simple Warframe with a bump on it, her wings which are part of her model have been specifically designed and rigged to drape over her bump.

Even if her bump was hidden via an alternative model, she would also need different wings otherwise the wings will still sit proud of a non-existant bump.

Which would also complicate future skins.

Edited Saturday at 02:36 AM by Thanatos9t

[WanderingJoe]

For the most part, I think people could deal with the wings being out of place more easily

 

[Luigispikachu]

7 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

For the most part, I think people could deal with the wings being out of place more easily

 

Oh absolutely. I for one could easily live with that.