Can we have a non-pregnant Jade skin?

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

Fair enough, would just be nice to get a “we’ve seen this. We’re not making any commitments but we recognise the concern”

Yeah..DE have a nasty habit of staying silent, only when it affects their actual income, they tend to care

[SaintAlfi]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Are people truly this uneducated about pregnancy nowadays? 

In the real world, the pregnancy belly DOES NOT GO AWAY AUTOMATICALLY AFTER BIRTH.

Jade that we build is not pregnant.

Little jab at my intelligence aside; you are correct. A belly post-partum and perhaps even longer afterwards wont instantly snap back into how it looked pre-pregnancy. You are also probably correct that our Jade isn't actually pregnant; that the belly and orb-fetus are simply symbolic. 

I would like to posit, however, that Warframe, being a video game and not the real world, isn't entirely accurate. I don't think anyone would expect DE to model a post-partum belly onto our own Jades. Therefore, the model used for our Jades is Jade when she is pregnant (again, I don't think our Jade is actually pregnant either). Now, to the average Warframe player (who may not think about pregnancy in regards to warframes that often), this can understandably cause a little confusion. She was pregnant, gave birth, died, and then when we build her, she still looks like how she did before she died, i.e., pregnant.  

I don't think the confusion surrounding Jade post-quest is entirely unfounded. You could argue that it's common sense, that people should put on their thinking caps, etc., but that's neither here nor there.

[0bsi]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Are people truly this uneducated about pregnancy nowadays? 

In the real world, the pregnancy belly DOES NOT GO AWAY AUTOMATICALLY AFTER BIRTH.

Jade that we build is not pregnant.

No it doesn't, but it also doesn't stay as big as it is before the birth, nor does it have a moving light inside it that can be interpreted as life inside... and (speaking from exeperience as someone who has been pregnant and birthed a child), a no-longer-pregnant woman doesn't lovingly rub the belly as she does in her idle animations.  The animation set alone implies that she is pregnant.
 

Whether or not there is supposed to be a baby inside there or not, the representation of a pregnant belly (whether there is a baby inside or not) is enough for some people to feel uncomfortable.

[DudeleeG2]

Arguing that she isn’t pregnant is just odd. You’re either lying to yourself or just trying to derail into semantics. She is a robot. She has a pregnancy belly. 

[DomoPANDAS]

It's not semantics when some people criticism is the idea of actively fighting with a baby on board. If the only arguments being made were solely about the aesthetics then sure but some people's "issue" is the Jade we play as being pregnant, which she isn't. 

[ChangelingRain]

1 hour ago, DomoPANDAS said:

which she isn't. 

How are you so sure of this? Same baby bump, same glowing orb... if it kicks like a fetus it probably is one.

[RLanzinger]

Should I remind a few thing most of you have forgotten :

First, Making a Warframe skins and animations is A HELL OF A JOB,

Second, Having 2 skins for Quest AND GamePlay was a NO GO from the start,

Third, Creating a NON-Pregnant will be done whether by [DE] or TennoGen ... in time.

Conclusion : Actual Jade Skin for Quest AND Build Game is THE SAME... Pregnant.

Lorewise, like all said, she should not be but [DE]-Ressource wise, no others way to do it...

 

@DudeleeG2 : "She is a robot."

Nope, she is a Warframe : a heavily modified Human being. But Still (a bit) human.

 

@DomoPANDAS : "criticism is the idea of actively fighting with a baby on board."

YEAH and most still forget, we are playing a Child Soldier since years with almost millions kills... not very much disturbing.

Edited June 23 by RLanzinger
misclic

[(XBOX)Omega399]

I don't know. But something about that same-day petition,  and the claim that there's more support from reddit than I've personally seen from reddit just sets off alarm bells that I just can't ignore.

 

I really don't want to cast shade, since this hits closer to home than anyone will ever know (3 times to be exact), and having your own feelings because of that tragedy called into question can be like a slap to the face, but at the same time there's something about this post and its timing that just feels suspicious to me. like its almost too perfect, it alligns too closely with the very things I saw people on reddit who disliked the design saying could happen as a counter argument to people saying "if you don't like don't buy". its not helped that your account was only activated on the forums starting in March (which was after the PAX devstream announcing her), is a PC account which means it couldn't have been started sooner like an unlinked Xbox Account to my understanding, and has only made all 11 of its posts on this single thread in the last week alone.

 

While I feel awful having to suggest there could be any sort of undehanded business going on here, years on the internet have taught me that plenty of people will make brazen claims that rely on exploiting peoples faith in others to get what they want. Im especially uncomfortable having to suggest that your S/O needs to come on and back your claims up with her own account rather than sit off to the sidelines, as it puts her vulnerabilities under scrutiny, but if she has been playing for much longer than yourself, it adds that needed confirmation that can assuage any doubt that may exist to the claims being made.

Edited June 23 by (XBOX)Omega399

[DudeleeG2]

Errr okay man thats a lot of conspiratorial thinking lol.

 

I started playing warframe in february on ps5 and linked my account at some point after so that I could trade with someone.

 

If you look at my comments you’ll see that I only posted here after googling how to give feedback. This is the only post I’ve ever made on the forums because I don’t really care about most decisions too much. Most of my gripes with the game are with things DE won’t change but this seems like something that would affect a lot of people, and seeing my fiance upset was enough to make me want to try to get something done.

 

I don’t even have a reddit account, I saw the reddit posts because I googled something like “Jade pregnancy belly warframe” to see if other people felt the same and if there was already some pushback. 
 

I have nothing to do with the petition, I just signed it.

 

I think you need to ask yourself how likely it is that someone would feel like me and my fiance do about this, given the amount of people who play the game. Also, even if there was some planned thing to attack Jade’s appearance, would that make the arguments invalid?

 

I’m not gonna ask her to post aswell lol. Plus her account is 2 days newer than mine (I think) and I had her link her account shortly after I did mine because it then wouldn’t let me trade with her ps5 only account from my now-pc account. That whole process was painful. Either way, it wouldn’t change your mind. Also, she wouldn’t be half as reasonable as I am lol.

 

If you do find a conspiracy to get Jade’s appearance then feel free to let us all know here so that we can give them our support lol.

Oh I forgot to say I’m sorry about it hitting close to home for you, regardless of any online shade you may or may not be casting lol. No-one deserves that pain

[WanderingJoe]

Ive been a member of these forums since 2016. No bot account here. 

To anyone who feels discouraged about saying that Jade's appearance is making you feel uncomfortable, you have every right as a player of this game to speak up about it. Don't ever let someone guilt or gaslight you into thinking that how something makes you feel does not matter. Given that this thread is three pages long by now, you're not alone in feeling this way about Jade's appearance. The more we talk about this, the more DE is likely to notice and address us directly.

And for people who do like the design, it's really fine that you do. It really is. We just disagree. for those of us whom her design is making us feel uncomfortable, all we're asking for is a toggleable appearance, not to remover her current appearance from the game. the "worst case" scenario of DE listening to our request would be the best of both worlds for the player base.

[(XBOX)Omega399]

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

Errr okay man thats a lot of conspiratorial thinking lol.

Eh, I've become a lot more overcautious since the old Halo Waypoint days, sadly there were a lot of untrustworthy sorts over there that would exploit real world issues to get what they wanted, even if it generally blew up in their faces 90% of the time.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I started playing warframe in february on ps5 and linked my account at some point after so that I could trade with someone.

Oooh ok, yeah, PS5 is odd since I don't think its displayed prominently like Xbox is (was sort of on the fence whether that was the case or not, but decided it was at least worthy of mention given how it was a 50/50 either way). Still, you guys do seem fairly new, so I'm more concerned that this might be more of kneejerk reaction to a smaller part of a bigger set of issues you might have the further along you get into the game.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

If you look at my comments you’ll see that I only posted here after googling how to give feedback. This is the only post I’ve ever made on the forums because I don’t really care about most decisions too much. Most of my gripes with the game are with things DE won’t change but this seems like something that would affect a lot of people, and seeing my fiance upset was enough to make me want to try to get something done.

while it is true that it can affect a fair amount of people, how it affects those people and the reasons why it affects those people aren't nearly as universal. For some its positive, for others its as it was for you two; a sad reminder of what happened. 

I am sorry that it happened to have been a painful reminder for your spouse, but at the same time, I don't support the goal that it seems like you were hoping to accomplish for the reason you stated, since it feels more like an extreme overcorrection to something that at a certain point becomes self-inflicted. Most people who take to dislking specific elements of a frame typically switch over to one of the other 50+ available frames that are less troubling to that individual and get rid of the offending frame, rather than demand that initial frame be change so that they can like it (unless it was Hildryn, because that was a pretty awful time iirc). While it sucks that it cost you a pretty penny, its honestly no different to anyone else who's purchased Microtransactions and regretted it afterwards for any number of reasons.

That said; I do agree there is some criticism to be thrown DE's way for not being a bit more transparent at launch about what elements were ingrained in the frames design, especially when they did include a trigger warning elsewhere. I understand it was to preserve the twist for the quest, but it does suck in cases like this.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I don’t even have a reddit account, I saw the reddit posts because I googled something like “Jade pregnancy belly warframe” to see if other people felt the same and if there was already some pushback.

i spend too much time doomscrolling in my free time at work lol.

I've spent enough time around reddit over the years to know that its not really indicative of the full picture, even if it does have some people raising good points at times.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I have nothing to do with the petition, I just signed it.

Fair.

That said, to me that petition in question just felt predatory the way it was dropped in the comments, which was where my suspicion came from.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I think you need to ask yourself how likely it is that someone would feel like me and my fiance do about this, given the amount of people who play the game. Also, even if there was some planned thing to attack Jade’s appearance, would that make the arguments invalid?

Unfortunately, I think there's more indifference or superficial reasons when it comes to people who take things like DE choosing an aesthetic design seriously, rather than people who share the exact same feelings as you two who suffered a tragedy.

And if there was a planned attack on how she looks, than it becomes a Kwite situation, where it harms people like yourselves since it makes it harder to not feel doubt whenever trauma is brought up in a serious manner, as now there's constant doubt as to who is being 100% honest.

5 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I’m not gonna ask her to post aswell lol. Plus her account is 2 days newer than mine (I think) and I had her link her account shortly after I did mine because it then wouldn’t let me trade with her ps5 only account from my now-pc account. That whole process was painful. Either way, it wouldn’t change your mind. Also, she wouldn’t be half as reasonable as I am lol.

That is fair, I really wouldn't want to put them on the spot either. just: trust issues on my part. Always concerned whenever someone is posting on behalf of someone else.

I will admit though, I don't usually trust newer accounts for two reasons; first being I worry the people in question may be reacting to something before really having the full context of other things within the game and its setting, which means that while a change may get pushed through due to a particular feeling, the people who spearheaded such change will have made it at the detriment of others as they abandoned the game afterwards upon realizing their issues run deeper than the focal issue, and second being the risk of sockpuppets simply trying to make changes for selfish reasons.

Like, currently people are upset at Jade for the whole belly thing, but then the question crossing my mind is if they're aware Citrine has what some folks may consider a visible hysterectomy, which is in many ways worse. 

6 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I’m sorry about it hitting close to home for you, regardless of any online shade you may or may not be casting lol. No-one deserves that pain

Thank you.

It honestly took a lot of internal debate if I should even share my opinion, since it is a tough subject to discuss.

 

I do agree in many ways, and think the best kind of consensus is having an option that makes things a lot easier for people to stomach, even if its just her getting a Deluxe skin that takes the emphasis off of her having a life-bearing maternal design, much like Yareli Pandea drops the magical girl elements in favor of a more traditional design akin to the older frames like Ember and Ivara, and possibly even giving her a new set of animations like Khora and Mirage recieved with their Deluxe designs.

[WanderingJoe]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Omega399 said:

And if there was a planned attack on how she looks, than it becomes a Kwite situation, where it harms people like yourselves since it makes it harder to not feel doubt whenever trauma is brought up in a serious manner, as now there's constant doubt as to who is being 100% honest.

This isn't planned, none of us know each other.... and I know how that sounds XD. Either way, Thank you for your well thought out response to the situation Omega. Posts like this are just what we need so DE vcan properly guage wether or not there is a large enough section of the fanbase to decide if there needs to be changes made or not. And who knows, maybe they'll decide there aren't enough of us. Maybe they will. Pretty much all anyone on this forum is asking for is the chance to make thier voice heard to DE and speaking in good faith during this discussion is the only way to be taken seriously.

Edited June 24 by WanderingJoe

[Luigispikachu]

On 2024-06-21 at 6:18 AM, imthefawn said:

I personally don't think she should change at all. Even if she isn't actually pregnant, that's part of her lore and her story. It should stay.

and we aren't asking for the removal, just a toggle so we can stop feeling uncomfortable over a tactless concept

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2024-06-20 at 7:37 PM, PopocraftGD said:

It makes no sense lore wise

It does. 

Spoilers below...

 

 

Stalker is like Umbra - his will/awareness is the original human infected by the warframe technocyte virus.

Jade is too - the Jade in the quest is also an Umbra, infected by the technocyte virus while pregnant. 

Which is why the Stalker hates everyone so much.

In the quest the original Umbra Jade, the one that was once human, gives birth and dies.

The Jade you reassemble and play as is not an Umbra. She's the mass produced version from a snapshot in time (when she was infected), similar how Excalibur is not Umbra.

On 2024-06-20 at 7:37 PM, PopocraftGD said:

on top of all it's ugly

Well, that's like, your opinion, man.

 

[WanderingJoe]

That was... probably the most reasonable take Ive seen from KayAitch on this subject.

Ill agree that the reason for being uncomfortable about the jade skin are somewhat subjective, as most people asking for an alt skin or an auxiliary toggle have a variety of reasons, ranging from experience with loss and infertility to personal sensibilities about having a pregnant warframe. And make no mistake, that is the issue. Trying to explain how lore wise she's not actually pregnant isn't going to stop how people feel about her appearance. She looks pregnant. People refer to her as pregnant. she was pregnant. she was made with a pregnant motif, pregnancy imagery, made to resemble, etcetera etcetera etcetera ad nauseum. 

Arguments about how you cant just pretend pregnant women don't exist, you cant hide from trauma- Bro! Its our space as members of this community to discuss a problem we have with the game and only discussion made in good faith will reveal if this truly is a problem that DE needs to address. Now, I don't mind people coming in to say they disagree, that they think Jade is fine the way she is. You're entitled to your opinion, just as we humbly disagree. And we should let it be known to people that make bad faith posts that they should know that no amount of guilting or gaslighting will remove someone's discomfort about Jade's design, it would only be shaming people into silence. If we even let them do that to us, that is. Any arguments as to "why does it even matter?", "Just dont play her", or my favorite "Just dont play the game then." are ones I have to ask "Why are you defending it so much if it doesnt matter?"

A way to turn the pregnancy on or off would be the best of both worlds for the community. If you want to celebrate motherhood by having her abdomen be extended, you do you. We'd like to do us and not be forced to look like we're pregnant in order to enjoy jade and everything she has to offer.

Edited June 24 by WanderingJoe

[Circle_of_Psi]

I'm curious to why DE hasn't responded to this yet

[WanderingJoe]

Easy! Tenno con is only a month away and they already told us why they'd be going dark with communications with the community. The main team is hard at work making sure everything will go off without a hitch. If they choose to adress this controversy, it will likely be at or after Tennocon.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

That was... probably the most reasonable take Ive seen from KayAitch on this subject

I'll have you know I've never been accused of being reasonable before! 🙂

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

A way to turn the pregnancy on or off would be the bets of both worlds for the community. If you want to celebrate motherhood by having her abdomen be extended, you do you

It would be weird though, right? Like she's wrapped in this big cloak, occasionally rubbing her belly, then she jumps into the air, throws her cloak open and... er... shoots lasers from her crotch?

Her idle, her dodge, the rigging and design of the ability animations, they're all built around the shape of the frame. Sure, you could build a toggle to turn it off, but you're basically talking a different personality frame.

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

I have to ask "Why are you defending it so much if it doesnt matter?

Oh, 'cause I think it's brilliant. It does matter - the representation matters. We shouldn't have postpartum Jade for the same reason we don't have skinny Grendel, puny Hildryn/Rhino, hench Nezha, etc.

Mind you, we do have giant flying bug Rhino, so maybe a crazy deluxe skin is down the line (and would be fine).

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

"Just dont play her"

I mean, yeah? Like if you find her distressing, keep playing the game, but you don't have to play as her. 

Warframe is built on variety. I love that this game has frames like Grendel, Nezha, Hildryn and Jade. Making them all work for everyone leads to a really bland game. 

There are nearly 60 frames now, a massive variety of choice. I don't know how DE keep finding ways to come up with completely new ones, but I'm glad they do.

[Pneumanoultra]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I'll have you know I've never been accused of being reasonable before! 🙂

It would be weird though, right? Like she's wrapped in this big cloak, occasionally rubbing her belly, then she jumps into the air, throws her cloak open and... er... shoots lasers from her crotch?

Her idle, her dodge, the rigging and design of the ability animations, they're all built around the shape of the frame. Sure, you could build a toggle to turn it off, but you're basically talking a different personality frame.

Oh, 'cause I think it's brilliant. It does matter - the representation matters. We shouldn't have postpartum Jade for the same reason we don't have skinny Grendel, puny Hildryn/Rhino, hench Nezha, etc.

Mind you, we do have giant flying bug Rhino, so maybe a crazy deluxe skin is down the line (and would be fine).

I mean, yeah? Like if you find her distressing, keep playing the game, but you don't have to play as her. 

Warframe is built on variety. I love that this game has frames like Grendel, Nezha, Hildryn and Jade. Making them all work for everyone leads to a really bland game. 

There are nearly 60 frames now, a massive variety of choice. I don't know how DE keep finding ways to come up with completely new ones, but I'm glad they do.

The fact that so many of her animations focus on her belly makes her feel less like an angel themed warframe and more like a pregnancy themed warframe. If you happen to like that then good for you, but it ain't what any of us signed up for.

Edit: Kullervo's animations and abilities revolve heavily on his daggers, but they can still be toggled off.

Edited June 24 by Pneumanoultra
Realization.

[(XBOX)Omega399]

To be fair, I think DE's also giving it the Hildryn wait and see, since it doesn't seem like Jade really is as controversial as people are making her out to be. Like most of the negative reception seems to have peaked a day or two after her release saw a fair bit of positive reception, and has been largely overtaken by indifference or more gameplay-focused issues since. 

[WanderingJoe]

Just as an example of what Pneumanoultra was describing, by what people thought what they were getting. I doubt the average person would assume the subject of this picture was pregnant, which is kind of the point in how it was created; so that detail would not be revealed so easily

Edited June 24 by WanderingJoe

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

Just as an example of what Pneumanoultra was describing, by what people thought what they were getting

I mean, that is her in game model. The only bit that I can't reproduce in Captura is that her head and top are open but not her skirt, but in game these are all open/closed together. 

 

[WanderingJoe]

Right, which means it was done intentionally. You have to manipulate the model itself. That or this is some combination of a stance that im not aware of, in which case I wish I did so I could have her use it.

[PopocraftGD]

I know it's more effort to slightly edit the model than removing kullervo's knifes but I would gladly trade the slightly more weird idle animation for a new model. And I don't think it's too much of an effort to begin with. Maybe it will take time, yes, but not effort.

[Pneumanoultra]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I mean, that is her in game model. The only bit that I can't reproduce in Captura is that her head and top are open but not her skirt, but in game these are all open/closed together. 

 

I don't think it is. Look:

Those short parts of the skirt aren't present in game, meaning the first image is likely a different model.

 

Edited June 24 by Pneumanoultra