So Ripline Is Free Aiming. Tailwind Is Free Aiming. Why Can't Teleport Be?

[LordMelvin]

I always thought that Teleport should be like a mini-bladestorm. Press 3, jump behind target and murder it horribly. If stealthed you'd do extra damage. Maybe it would even scale off melee damage to give you a shot at actually stealth killing heavy units. But there I go, dreaming of powers that are fun and interesting (and mostly broken).

That said from what I've seen of Ripline it's less of a grappling hook and more like a pleasant jaunt into crossfire town. It doesn't so much "rip" as it slowly sails you through the air. Hell, half the time it doesn't even take you all the way, just kinda drops you 3/4 of the distance. Teleport at least moves you to the guy you targeted.

[ArmyOfFun]

Considering its cost compared to Ripline, and the difference in what it actually does, I wouldn't mind Ash's Teleport to be reworked to be more similar to Ripline. Would allow him to actually sneak around and attack from unexpected directions (dropping from above with Heavy Landing, and such), not just directly behind and in the middle of the enemy formation (which tends to get you killed, anyway).

Ripline, Switch Teleport, and Teleport all cost 25 energy.  Unless you are talking mod points, then I understand your mod point to usefulness argument.

 

I can see myself playing ash a lot more with ash should free targeting become implemented..

 

 

That said from what I've seen of Ripline it's less of a grappling hook and more like a pleasant jaunt into crossfire town. It doesn't so much "rip" as it slowly sails you through the air. Hell, half the time it doesn't even take you all the way, just kinda drops you 3/4 of the distance. Teleport at least moves you to the guy you targeted

 

.Ripline however opens up so much vertical freedom whereas positioning a free targeting teleport would be like aiming a decoy.  You need something flat and sometimes a background to set that 50m targeting limit

 

Ripline as said many times is dependent on the angle and distance you target.  ↑ Height & ↑ Distance = a far greater amount of distance covered.  I would like to see it move you more, but until changes are done you can chain it into the normal jump kick and slide or go down fast with a jump attack.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Rankless

[Flackenstien]

I'm fine with it the way it is now, for the most part, but I could dig a reduced range free-aim teleport too.

[Azamagon]

I'd change Teleport not only to be free-aim, but also to give it a different kind of utility:

 

At the point you were when casting Teleport, and at the point you land, you have a small AoE "warp" effect. If an enemy is hit by the warp aoe, they will be slowed down greatly, but very shortly (think 60% speed reduction for 3 seconds). Ash could then also receive a great boost of melee attack speed for a very short while (same values for power and duration as the enemy slowdown). More utility like that is always good.

 

You may think that this seems OP in comparison to other mobility skills. But well, I'd like ALL of them to have more utility in them. Since that is offtopic, I'll put some of those ideas in a spoiler

* Slash Dash and Rhino Charge are both good skills. Mobility and damage in one.

* Super Jump should have the Heavy Impact effect folded into it (although, be triggered 100% of the time, but still with better effect for higher jumps). Heavy Impact as a mod needs to go.

* Bounce could get an aoe blast upon activation (no matter who triggers it)

* Wormhole could interact more with your ranged attacks, such as: If you shoot a bullet into the wormhole, a weaker copy of the bullet is shot out of the end hole. Something like that.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Azamagon

[WhisperByte]

Teleport? You mean Thief's Wit?

 

Either way +1

[SquirmyBurrito]

Teleport? You mean Thief's Wit?

 

Either way +1

 

That joke flew right over my head.

[Cwierz]

Why can't it just stay as it is?

 

Edit: I have Ash, and I'm perfectly happy with Teleport as it is. I'd like it's aim to be more lenient though. 

>inb4 rage

Obviously, because you have posted in a ash teleport post I feel the need to reply.

 

Ash would benefit from this by emphasizing his "role" as a stealth damage dealer. This would allow for him to posses mobility that would allow a frame such as himself to actively engage in melee battle with a new twist added. At the current state, ash in particular (not as much Loki) feels like a one trick pony, in the way that smokescreen is basically the most used skill in his arsenal, and the sole reason he is classified as a stealth damage dealer. This is not to say that his other skills are bad, but there is a large disparity between the usage (Not counting shuriken here). By offering this type of mobility to him it would allow for the effective rework of enemy AI in relation to invisibility, which is most likely being held back due to DE not doing it ash's reliance on the ability so heavily. Ash and loki use invisibility as a weapon in their arsenal. However AI relation to this is long overdue with a fix. The reaction from mobs to them becoming invisible is absurd, and an AI rework for it would allow for more engaging combat. Loki would most likely not suffer to much, as he posses many forms of CC, but Ash would be insufferable as his reliance on the one ability is on the same levels as Nyx- Chaos, Frost- Globe, Nova- M Prime, or Old Vauban- Bastille. 

 

Warframe has combat that at some points can be quite dull, especially considering many abilities in the game prevent enemies from fighting back or outright wipe them out with the push of a button. Many abilities and mechanics for that matter still require attention and work to flesh them out. In the current state many things in this game are just bad, as exemplified when you take away frames abilities to nuke and disable enemies, ala Stalker. This is one such ability that should be changed for the better good of the game, not because I have unrealistic expectations. Depth is not added by simply making something easier to use, or giving it damage, and will never be added with a majority of the communities style of thinking.

 

Most people here are unable or simply don't want to go down the road of the big picture, AI is killing this game, and is bottlenecked from what I can understand. We only have as much challenge with how smart are enemies are, if DE cannot work around the bottleneck the only option is to make combat that is fun and addictive, or turn this into a number whoring game with artificial difficulty. I don't want this to turn into a maple story, and so far this seems to be the only other foreseeable alternative. 

 

 

>inb4 tire analogy

 

 

On a side note, I have discovered that nova can chain wormholes together, and if sprinting she will immediately be trusted into the wormhole at the end of the cast animation, meaning she is effectively 4x as fast as everything in the game. 

[Leriel]

Because Valkyr has nice looking &#! and slender body.

 

Rip line doesn't let you instantaneously move to the place you want and the actual distance traveled while using rip line is shorter than the range of rip line itself. Teleport on the other hand lets you blink to the target position instantly with the cap limit of 50 range.

 

Teleport needs lenient targeting and longer range cap.

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

Obviously, because you have posted in a ash teleport post I feel the need to reply.

 

Ash would benefit from this by emphasizing his "role" as a stealth damage dealer. This would allow for him to posses mobility that would allow a frame such as himself to actively engage in melee battle with a new twist added. At the current state, ash in particular (not as much Loki) feels like a one trick pony, in the way that smokescreen is basically the most used skill in his arsenal, and the sole reason he is classified as a stealth damage dealer. This is not to say that his other skills are bad, but there is a large disparity between the usage (Not counting shuriken here). By offering this type of mobility to him it would allow for the effective rework of enemy AI in relation to invisibility, which is most likely being held back due to DE not doing it ash's reliance on the ability so heavily. Ash and loki use invisibility as a weapon in their arsenal. However AI relation to this is long overdue with a fix. The reaction from mobs to them becoming invisible is absurd, and an AI rework for it would allow for more engaging combat. Loki would most likely not suffer to much, as he posses many forms of CC, but Ash would be insufferable as his reliance on the one ability is on the same levels as Nyx- Chaos, Frost- Globe, Nova- M Prime, or Old Vauban- Bastille. 

 

Warframe has combat that at some points can be quite dull, especially considering many abilities in the game prevent enemies from fighting back or outright wipe them out with the push of a button. Many abilities and mechanics for that matter still require attention and work to flesh them out. In the current state many things in this game are just bad, as exemplified when you take away frames abilities to nuke and disable enemies, ala Stalker. This is one such ability that should be changed for the better good of the game, not because I have unrealistic expectations. Depth is not added by simply making something easier to use, or giving it damage, and will never be added with a majority of the communities style of thinking.

 

Most people here are unable or simply don't want to go down the road of the big picture, AI is killing this game, and is bottlenecked from what I can understand. We only have as much challenge with how smart are enemies are, if DE cannot work around the bottleneck the only option is to make combat that is fun and addictive, or turn this into a number whoring game with artificial difficulty. I don't want this to turn into a maple story, and so far this seems to be the only other foreseeable alternative. 

 

 

>inb4 tire analogy

 

 

On a side note, I have discovered that nova can chain wormholes together, and if sprinting she will immediately be trusted into the wormhole at the end of the cast animation, meaning she is effectively 4x as fast as everything in the game. 

 

 

I don't need my tire analogy, most of the stuff that you said has nothing to do with Ash.

Better AI? What does that have to do with Ash?

Loki's invisibility leaves enemies shooting at his last visible location. Smokescreen's radial stun knocks enemies back and switches them to an alerted but not openly hostile status (assuming no other players are around to trigger their hostilities). Teleport applies a stun to its target allowing him to safely close gaps AND engage that target in melee combat. Should you choose to, you can immediately use smokescreen (chain stuns) for that extra damage and relative safety being invisible gives.

Depth isn't really achieved by making teleport free-aim. I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. And I'd have to say Bladestorm is Ash's most widely used ability, not smokescreen.

Chaining wormholes is expensive (as far as energy consumption goes) and can be completely messed up by lag. It'd be easier to chain Rhino Charges (which actually makes him faster than Nova IIRC).

[Cwierz]

I don't need my tire analogy, most of the stuff that you said has nothing to do with Ash.

Better AI? What does that have to do with Ash?

Loki's invisibility leaves enemies shooting at his last visible location. Smokescreen's radial stun knocks enemies back and switches them to an alerted but not openly hostile status (assuming no other players are around to trigger their hostilities). Teleport applies a stun to its target allowing him to safely close gaps AND engage that target in melee combat. Should you choose to, you can immediately use smokescreen (chain stuns) for that extra damage and relative safety being invisible gives.

Depth isn't really achieved by making teleport free-aim. I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. And I'd have to say Bladestorm is Ash's most widely used ability, not smokescreen.

Chaining wormholes is expensive (as far as energy consumption goes) and can be completely messed up by lag. It'd be easier to chain Rhino Charges (which actually makes him faster than Nova IIRC).

I guess I hadn't made myself very clear, the AI involves ash because the game is headed in either two directions-

 

A game built around addictive gameplay 

or

A game built around artificial difficulty

 

The gist of it is that with AI fixes pertaining to smokescreen, for a bunch of various reasons I will not list now (gotta go soon) teleport is a way to add depth to ash, to compensate for the loss of power.

 

Abilities need reworks to fix the problem with artificial difficulty, abandoning stuns for self utility and adding tools to overcome challenges, instead of finding ways to nullify them.

 

This is really just personal viewpoints and differences in thinking. I will not convince you, you will not convince me, it is in my opinion this is a welcome change, that can be the first of hopefully many changes like it.

[theammostore]

Not really sold on this, actually. Nova has a free-aim teleport that can even stop you in mid-air to hit some platforms, Ripline isn't really a teleport, more of a pull in that direction, and then Loki has a weird one requiring walls and a floor and LoS and some weird nonsense. Ash's teleport is unique and fun in the sense that I can target, say, that guy in the middle (eventually), stun him, and then proceed to murder everyone. To me, Ash is more of a murder-ninja than a stealth ninja. Yes, he's fast and generally silent, but he's more about stealthy-fast-murder than anything else. Evasion with murder, essentially.

 

Personally, I would rather some extra features of the game be added that would make Ash much more enjoyable, or at least his Teleport would be, anyway.

 

A)It has a small damage application, within a very small AoE of where he lands. So the person he targets is stunned and hurt, while everyone else around that person are hurt for more, if not simply stunned and hurt the same as the target (assuming target is enemy, and the people around the target are enemies)

 

B) Allow teleporting to disrupt aim and thus allow for easier hit-and-run tactics. Or, more like a pinball in the middle of the room. Bounce hit, bounce hit, bounce hit, etc.

 

C) Increase the activation radius from the center of the screen. Make it the entire circle, but it goes to pinpoint when aiming. It would target whoever is closest to the center, and work for any ability requiring a target to activate.

 

 

To restate my opinion, I don't think we need it to be free-aim, we just need it to be more dynamic.

[CubedOobleck]

Free aiming, make it useful to get around;

Small radial stun where you teleport to, make it useful for battle;

Fluid wallrun connection when you teleport to a wall, make it fun with parkour;

No more landing animation, make it smooth;

Edited November 30, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[VKhaun]

Have you guys tried this skill? Ripline is no where near the travel capability that teleport would be if it worked that way...

Edited November 30, 2013 by VKhaun

[Llyssa]

I'd like to point out distance and geometry here.

 

Ripline does NOT move you that far. It moves you towards the target for 2 seconds. It does NOT move you past geometry, it moves you towards it, and makes you suffer collisions for whatever they're worth.

 

Teleport, on the other hand, moves you the entire distance between yourself and the target, no matter how far it is, and ignores all geometry between you and the target, so long as you can actually target the target.

 

If ripline worked like ash(infinite distance, ignored geometry), then yeah, I could totally be on board with this. However, it does not. It's a tiny little tug in the direction you want to go, about as far as a well timed leap, WITHOUT a slide afterwards.

 

Ash could use a bit more leniency on the aim, but I'd also note that, when aiming at a large crowd, leniency could be hell.

 

Still not on board with ash TP being made like ripline, though--would HATE to teleport only 2 seconds worth of travel towards my target. ESP for that cost!

[CubedOobleck]

If ripline worked like ash(infinite distance, ignored geometry), then yeah, I could totally be on board with this. However, it does not. It's a tiny little tug in the direction you want to go, about as far as a well timed leap, WITHOUT a slide afterwards.

Perhaps you should try using ripline mid jump to remove ground friction and aiming higher to account for your own gravity -.-

 

and ripline is a bad comparison anyway, a free aiming teleport would be much more like a cheap wormhole, except it can't be used to move other players or enemies.

Edited November 30, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[ROSING]

Wait, wait.

Am I the only one here who does not understand how you have more lenient hitbox targeting? How would that work? Teleport as it is works just like any hitscan weapon--either you're crosshair is on him or it isn't. I'm not against this, but I'm just not sure how this rework would be done.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I guess I hadn't made myself very clear, the AI involves ash because the game is headed in either two directions-

 

A game built around addictive gameplay 

or

A game built around artificial difficulty

 

The gist of it is that with AI fixes pertaining to smokescreen, for a bunch of various reasons I will not list now (gotta go soon) teleport is a way to add depth to ash, to compensate for the loss of power.

 

Abilities need reworks to fix the problem with artificial difficulty, abandoning stuns for self utility and adding tools to overcome challenges, instead of finding ways to nullify them.

 

This is really just personal viewpoints and differences in thinking. I will not convince you, you will not convince me, it is in my opinion this is a welcome change, that can be the first of hopefully many changes like it.

 

The problem with your two options is:

>implies gameplay isn't already addictive.

 

>implies the game isn't already built upon artificial difficulty

and using the word 'either' implies that you can't have both in one game.

What AI fixes? You're using imaginary fixes that will nerf smokescreen's usability to support the notion that at that point Ash will need something else to make him interesting. 

And this line "Abilities need reworks to fix the problem with artificial difficulty" makes no sense as it isn't the abilities that is causing the game to be centered around artificial difficulty. AD exists in most games today (just saying).

None of that really supported the notion that Teleport needs to be changed in any radical way. It needs targeting tweaks. Anything beyond that is a want.

[TunaMayo]

Wait, wait.

Am I the only one here who does not understand how you have more lenient hitbox targeting? How would that work? Teleport as it is works just like any hitscan weapon--either you're crosshair is on him or it isn't. I'm not against this, but I'm just not sure how this rework would be done.

At the moment you literally have to have the crosshairs on the target, in a game where most targets are moving all the time, and erratically during combat.

A lot of games have relatively lenient aiming, in that you don't have to have the crosshairs on the enemy to see information about them or have them targeted for in game powers.

Mass effect 3 is a good example of this, aiming near an enemy selects them and enables you to use powers on them. But you still have to have your crosshairs on them when you shoot to hit them.

I'm no programmer, but I assume this is done by having some sort of invisible bubble around enemies that allows for interaction with said enemy.

I would say that the game would really benefit from this lenient targeting as it would help out all posts that require targeting. (Switch teleport, teleport, soul punch and more).

[KageNoShini]

i just want aggro on ash to drop a lot when he teleports, because I'm tired of teleporting next to a guy, and then getting aimbotted by the rest who were less than half a second ago shooting my teammates, as well as a wider hitbox, if free aim is a choice, then limit it to like ~15m give or take with a couple hotfixes.

[SquirmyBurrito]

At the moment you literally have to have the crosshairs on the target, in a game where most targets are moving all the time, and erratically during combat.

 

I thought people were saying that you'd get an invalid target message even while aiming at the enemy. I haven't had this problem but I'm careful with my aim. If those people's complaints was really just a case of them having S#&$ aim then nothing is wrong with teleport. I do have to admit that when I play most frames (nowadays) I use my melee exclusively. So I can use the codex for aiming my abilities instead. I also used Ash for my MR11 test. Yep. I cheated.

Edited November 30, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[TunaMayo]

I thought people were saying that you'd get an invalid target message even while aiming at the enemy. I haven't had this problem but I'm careful with my aim. If those people's complaints was really just a case of them having S#&$ aim then nothing is wrong with teleport. I do have to admit that when I play most frames (nowadays) I use my melee exclusively. So I can use the codex for aiming my abilities instead. I also used Ash for my MR11 test. Yep. I cheated.

Technically that is the case. But the reason "invalid target" comes up, is because as you use teleport, the enemy might have just moved ever so slightly (which is highly likely in the heat of combat), causing your cross hair to be ever so slightly off target.

This means instead of trying to teleport to the enemy, you are now trying to teleport to the wall behind them, which is an invalid target.

I know you might be able to deal with this, but you are one of few. Larger hitboxes would make this so much more user friendly.

Also, I can't tell you how many times I have been close to yelling because I am using the codex scanner on an osprey, amd it moves slightly and I have to start the scan again!

[SquirmyBurrito]

Also, I can't tell you how many times I have been close to yelling because I am using the codex scanner on an osprey, amd it moves slightly and I have to start the scan again!

 

I know the feeling, I have to stand pretty far away or incredibly close (and take off carrier's striker) to scan them reliably. And I HAVE to play solo because my teammates always decide to shoot whatever enemy I'm trying to scan, regardless of what is surrounding them.

Edited November 30, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[TunaMayo]

I know the feeling, I have to stand pretty far away or incredibly close (and take off carrier's striker) to scan them reliably. And I HAVE to play solo because my teammates always decide to shoot whatever enemy I'm trying to scan, regardless of what is surrounding them.

Or if someone walks infront of you mid scan...

[ScrubbyDubDub]

I 100% agree with you.

I would probably use ash a lot more if teleport were free aiming.

 

+1

[Llyssa]

Perhaps you should try using ripline mid jump to remove ground friction and aiming higher to account for your own gravity -.-

I have to assume you're either being facetious, or you seriously suck at jumping. If you know anything about mobility in this game, ripline does nothing more than a jump--quite a bit less, actually. You travel approximately 2 seconds at a velocity similar to a standard wall jump, whilst an *actual* wall jump will continue until physics interrupts you. If you spam chain riplines in a row, you can do some interesting things, but that gets rather expensive unless you specifically build for. However, in general, it's no better than a jump, whether or not you're airborne, and no matter how high you're aiming.