How many quit Warframe because of The New War Archon Hunt?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb PeterXZ5:

I just finished the New War today, and the amount of frustration over the Archon sections is unbelievable.

Fighting bosses with a bow and arrow, seriously?????

I mean Archon Boreal seemed just impossible, I moved on to Amar in the end which was very tough but not as. Nira was the quickest at about 30 minutes of frustration.

I honestly thought Boreal constant rehealing  would make me quit Warframe altogether. 

Just out of interest, it would be interesting how many players DE loses because they can't finish The New War. I'm sure DE has these stats somewhere, c'mon DE, let's see the data.

Anyway, I'm breathing many sighs of relief today and and shaking my head at the same time.

There are enough topics like this. They said exactly what you are talking about here.
Even I, with a leg3-4 account, had to watch YouTube twice because I didn't know what was going to happen next. So the whole thing is very poorly designed! Logic and intuition don't help.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, TARINunit9 dijo:

And it's not all that hypothetical. There was this one guy on the forums who was 60 years old with arthritis who played all the way up to TNW legitimately but had trouble using the Nataruk. He did, in fact, manage to beat them, but it took way longer than one day

Although it may sound cruel, that is their problem. DE (or any game company out there) is not going to accommodate everyone in their own shortcomings.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

But let's say we've got a hypothetical player with some sort of dexterity problem who mentally understands how the Nataruk but still can't actually hit Nira with it anyway. Pre-TNW Warframe was the rare game on that market they SHOULD be playing, with both mechanics and patches designed to reward good builds with both greater success and lower manual input for that success

We had such case on the forums quite recently (guy was elderly and couldnt handle long fights due to wrist problem). I am not the youngest one myself and never had any luck with games that require extensive manual coordination (whether IRL or on PC). I did play a bit souls likes and most of them can be easily done with good weapon and one simple cheese tactic called circle strafe, as is the case here. I kept running and circle strafe (A or D while camera locked on the enemy). One can completely remove any need to do any sudden movements if one locks the player and the boss in a single move patter. If the enemy moves/dodges the shots just lead them (understand how projectile moves and that player has to aim not where the enemy is now, but where the enemy will be once the projectile gets to it), use quick shots (tap) instead of charge shots (hold) if one is having trouble with that.

Also for such cases the HP of the enemies and therefore the time (number of sucessful hits) have been reduced by at least half since the launch, so did their damage and therefore the need to repeat the fights due to amount of deaths.

 

[Xiothin]

8 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

There are enough topics like this. They said exactly what you are talking about here.
Even I, with a leg3-4 account, had to watch YouTube twice because I didn't know what was going to happen next. So the whole thing is very poorly designed! Logic and intuition don't help.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic and that's concerning to me.

[Xiothin]

8 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Although it may sound cruel, that is their problem. DE (or any game company out there) is not going to accommodate everyone in their own shortcomings.

There are options that can be made to accommodate those issues that would be easy enough and wouldn't take long to implement.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Xiothin:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic and that's concerning to me.

What is the goal of such senseless posts? To provoke me? Or is that supposed to be a question? 👎

[Xiothin]

2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

What is the goal of such senseless posts? To provoke me? Or is that supposed to be a question? 👎

I have no idea how you, in any way, took that as rude, or aggressive, or stand-offish.

It was supposed to be a joke while also genuinely not sure if you were being serious.

On topic, they are not poorly designed, you have the tools to accomplish it and you need to learn to effectively dodge and hide to win the fight. Again, I beat each fight the first time and I only started playing this year, you have to realize you aren't an unstoppable killing machine anymore and adapt accordingly.

I (and many others) used the method of dodging at the right time, healing at the right time, and hiding behind rocks or trees while using that time to charge up the Nataruk. I never wasted time doing one shot at a time being uncharged.

Edited July 20 by Xiothin

[WERElektro]

Interesting.

I didn't think these were difficult at all - as far as I can remember. And I am really not the bow - enthusiast either.

 

What I struggled with more was the stealth part:
It might have very well taken me 30-45 minutes to complete that. (might be noteworthy that stealth games are about patience as well - and I don't know about you guys, but with each fail I grow more impatient).
But I still wouldn't call that part "Bad game design" just because I wasn't able to rush through it in 5 minutes. It sure had some interesting aspects to it.

It sound a lot like "It's too difficult for me / it's not my style of playing = It's bad game design"

I've see people complain about TNW on reddit every now and then tho. So maybe it's not just you.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Xiothin:

It was supposed to be a joke while also genuinely not sure if you were being serious.

I usually write without emotions. So you added emotions yourself. And this is about discussion and not a trash talk TV show. So I expect respectful treatment. If you had simply asked where exactly I was having difficulties, I would have addressed that and then you could have given your arguments as to why you see things differently.
But... instead you are making a serious post look ridiculous and trying to tell me fairy tales that this is absolutely fine.

[Xiothin]

59 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

I usually write without emotions. So you added emotions yourself. And this is about discussion and not a trash talk TV show. So I expect respectful treatment. If you had simply asked where exactly I was having difficulties, I would have addressed that and then you could have given your arguments as to why you see things differently.
But... instead you are making a serious post look ridiculous and trying to tell me fairy tales that this is absolutely fine.

It was laughing with you, not at you.

If you thought I was being disrespectful I apologize, it was a joke from Dragon Ball Z Abridged.

What exactly were you having difficulty with then? The bosses reminded me of something out of Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil. 

[Xiothin]

3 hours ago, WERElektro said:

Interesting.

I didn't think these were difficult at all - as far as I can remember. And I am really not the bow - enthusiast either.

 

What I struggled with more was the stealth part:
It might have very well taken me 30-45 minutes to complete that. (might be noteworthy that stealth games are about patience as well - and I don't know about you guys, but with each fail I grow more impatient).
But I still wouldn't call that part "Bad game design" just because I wasn't able to rush through it in 5 minutes. It sure had some interesting aspects to it.

It sound a lot like "It's too difficult for me / it's not my style of playing = It's bad game design"

I've see people complain about TNW on reddit every now and then tho. So maybe it's not just you.

I do think they're bad design, the stealth parts. Only because the Deacons can see you even if you're on the other side of the building and they so happen to turn your way, that's ridiculous. You should only be detected if you happen to walk into their beam.

In games with combat they usually allow you to stealth kill these enemies, why are Deacons so different from normal enemies that you can't kill them like you kill all the other Narmer???

[C11H22O1]

20 hours ago, Raarsi said:

In a way, they kinda did since it was not long after TNW that the change in leadership for the game took place.  It could've been purely coincidental, but after seeing the initial announcement for Soulframe, it gave me the impression that TNW was their sendoff moment since the gameplay from it may as well have been for a completely different game.

I disagree, the new war plays just like any other Warframe mission, there aren't really any new mechanics in the quest to differentiate it from regular gameplay.

The characters we play as having unique abilities is no different than a frame having their own abilities that no other frame has. They use weapons the same way we do with just their movement being a bit more limited.

I also never understood the complaint about the drifter being weak, everything in the quest is balanced around their health and damage, seems like some people got upset they have to use strategies instead of invincibility and pointing gun at enemies killing everything in that area instantly

[WERElektro]

1 hour ago, Xiothin said:

I do think they're bad design, the stealth parts. Only because the Deacons can see you even if you're on the other side of the building and they so happen to turn your way, that's ridiculous. You should only be detected if you happen to walk into their beam.

In games with combat they usually allow you to stealth kill these enemies, why are Deacons so different from normal enemies that you can't kill them like you kill all the other Narmer???

 

Yeah it was frustrating for me as well. I remember pretty much trying to remember the position and the path all the deacons would take. Which were quite a few deacons to remember.

It's been a while I played thru tnw.

An overal enjoyable quest. With a lot of new stuff being introduced ... that was being trashed again ( Corpus gameplay?! ).

The stealth part - and I specifically mean the one in that big hall - was...admitedly hard to do.

 

I just try not to call these design choices "bad" because I don't know anything about game design.

On the other hand I think you do not need to be a professional cook to say that there's too much salt added to a dish.

Well, as I said - I read quiet a few rants about the stealth part every now and then. So there might be something to it, when you say it's not a good design choice.

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2024-07-19 at 5:48 PM, trst said:

With how vocal players were/are on how ""hard"" it was I'm going with the answer of not enough quit.

I can sympathize with anyone who struggled due to impairments or disabilities as the game lacks accessibility in those areas. In fact New War is likely the reason we've been seeing more of those being added.

But anyone else who has no such excuse either shouldn't be playing or at least should have no say regarding feedback. The game has been dumbed down so much over the years by players who can't learn the most basic things that I hope NW filtered out at least some of them. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's genuinely better for the health of the game at this point.

absolutely the wrong take.

 

The quest should be nerfy-easy. Its not there to be gameplay or difficult. Its there to teach or show you the new mechanics. then the game itself, the missions you take afterwards, they are what should be hard (depending on player level it targets)

The idea the quest should be hard to dissuade players from playing is an absolutely wrong take, it will never be good for the health of the game to lose players. Having hard missions that are too hard for most - that's fine. They can play the rest of the game without having to suffer steel path or arbitrations or sorties or whatever else is added to be the "hard mode". But, as we see, players get past the hard quest and then demand nerfs to everything so they can grab all the loot in less than a minute.

[Wicked-Alien]

On 2024-07-19 at 8:09 AM, PeterXZ5 said:

I just finished the New War today, and the amount of frustration over the Archon sections is unbelievable.

Fighting bosses with a bow and arrow, seriously?????

I mean Archon Boreal seemed just impossible, I moved on to Amar in the end which was very tough but not as. Nira was the quickest at about 30 minutes of frustration.

I honestly thought Boreal constant rehealing  would make me quit Warframe altogether. 

Just out of interest, it would be interesting how many players DE loses because they can't finish The New War. I'm sure DE has these stats somewhere, c'mon DE, let's see the data.

Anyway, I'm breathing many sighs of relief today and and shaking my head at the same time.

I know the feeling.  It made me quit playing for a few years because I was stuck on them bosses. But I started over on ps4. It got boring starting over,  so I linked my main account thinking I'd get to play warframe,  but nope still stuck at the bosses. But I really wanted to play on my primes, so I spent 2 hours each on first 2 bosses,  after finely killing them, the rest was a breeze. 

[trst]

7 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

absolutely the wrong take.

 

The quest should be nerfy-easy. Its not there to be gameplay or difficult. Its there to teach or show you the new mechanics. then the game itself, the missions you take afterwards, they are what should be hard (depending on player level it targets)

The idea the quest should be hard to dissuade players from playing is an absolutely wrong take, it will never be good for the health of the game to lose players. Having hard missions that are too hard for most - that's fine. They can play the rest of the game without having to suffer steel path or arbitrations or sorties or whatever else is added to be the "hard mode". But, as we see, players get past the hard quest and then demand nerfs to everything so they can grab all the loot in less than a minute.

Lol what? In no possible capacity is New War there to teach players mechanics. It's literally positioned at the end of star chart progression, required engaging in side branches of progression (RJ, Archwing, Mechs, and Amps), and is after all the actual tutorials and intro quests.

Also I'm not even suggesting that the quest is hard nor that it should be. I'm saying that those who somehow found it hard shouldn't be here or at least shouldn't have a voice. The quest was not difficult and the ""skills"" necessary to beat it were so painfully basic that I can't see how anyone who'd struggle with it for being "hard" could want anything beneficial for the game. And again the only exception to this is those who suffer from impairments that're out of their control.

For far too long had DE bent the knee to players who don't want to actually learn anything nor who want to actually play the game, and if New War pushed out some of those players then that's a good thing for the game's future. You can't retain players by babying them forever, there has to be some degree of challenge present in a game and WF lacks any such challenge. And losing those players can only be beneficial in reducing the number of crymoaners who'd push back against the slightest obstacle.

Edited July 21 by trst

[Helverin]

It's laughable, really, did a second run through TNW (mostly because the "too difficult" attitude in this thread annoyed me) and compared to the real archon hunts with your warframes, this is just a walk in the park. 

No flashy light eximus units painting the screen in rainbow-colors, no other minions despise summoned ads (and while dealing with them the boss doesn't even react). So is it really too much to ask for focusing attention on one single foe, that can't even oneshot you? Or is it necessary to embrace the cheese and hide behind mountains of mesmer skin to beat the game? 

That's not even Dark Souls difficulty we talk here, that's more Mario vs. Bowser on N64 (though Mario can't heal up).

[CephalonCarnage]

 

No really no. Quests are not gameplay. You go into the quest, spend an hour or so getting story and suchlike. And then you play those hard bits in the game. Repeat as you like. Otherwise you end up with TNW taking 6 freaking hours of locked-in quest, and you kick out players who would have happily played the old content. But now cannot. That's not good.

The archon hunts were just annoying - so much running from A to B and you do it twice with the damned bow (I hate charge triggers, God made automatic rifles for a reason). Why twice. The 3rd one was how it should have been all along, but the archon hunt in game with your warframe was not the same as it was in the quest with your warframe.

They were hard. I recall shooting Nira in the face with 2 guys for half an hour (I had a recharge pistol) and they had run out of ammo, I remember the first time I did Boreal in game. They took a long time, people complained about the defence missions being way too hard. So last week I did one., Finished it in 5 minutes flat. It was embarrassing how easy Nira went down to an incarnon torid.

 

The rest of the quest was annoying too - stupid "stealth" missions that were really a puzzle of what path to take. Necramech battle that I couldn't be bothered to finish, I let Erra do the work I was so bored by then. The only good bits were right at the beginning.

[Xiothin]

3 hours ago, Helverin said:

It's laughable, really, did a second run through TNW (mostly because the "too difficult" attitude in this thread annoyed me) and compared to the real archon hunts with your warframes, this is just a walk in the park. 

No flashy light eximus units painting the screen in rainbow-colors, no other minions despise summoned ads (and while dealing with them the boss doesn't even react). So is it really too much to ask for focusing attention on one single foe, that can't even oneshot you? Or is it necessary to embrace the cheese and hide behind mountains of mesmer skin to beat the game? 

That's not even Dark Souls difficulty we talk here, that's more Mario vs. Bowser on N64 (though Mario can't heal up).

I don't think this is the right take either, but I do agree with you that the Archons are more traditional boss fights with weaknesses that need to be figured out.

But to suggest it was easy (the first time) is pretty disingenuous.

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

 

I'm on phone and have absolutely no clue how to unquote so my bad in case you read this.

Edited July 22 by Xiothin

[Helverin]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Xiothin:

I don't think this is the right take either, but I do agree with you that the Archons are more traditional boss fights with weaknesses that need to be figured out.

But to suggest it was easy (the first time) is pretty disingenuous.

In comparison to other WF-quests, they were challenging, yes. Compared to other game bosses, or even WF-non-quest-bosses, they are not really hard.

Like said, they are very forgiving in term's of damage output, none if them can give you a hard stagger oneshot combo, you can use panic rolling the whole time. The archons attacks have good animations that you can read regarding what is coming next which is a huge step forward (I remember doing SP Mutalist Alad V, which was a horrible fight without clear animations, just a guy wandering the room in random pattern). The next part is doing and simply learning. If that's too much for some people, I can't help it, but suggest simple clicker-games instead.

 

[Xiothin]

48 minutes ago, Helverin said:

In comparison to other WF-quests, they were challenging, yes. Compared to other game bosses, or even WF-non-quest-bosses, they are not really hard.

Like said, they are very forgiving in term's of damage output, none if them can give you a hard stagger oneshot combo, you can use panic rolling the whole time. The archons attacks have good animations that you can read regarding what is coming next which is a huge step forward (I remember doing SP Mutalist Alad V, which was a horrible fight without clear animations, just a guy wandering the room in random pattern). The next part is doing and simply learning. If that's too much for some people, I can't help it, but suggest simple clicker-games instead.

 

I think it's such a huge step out of the box compared to the main gameplay where you steamroll everything, or the earlier parts where you still one-shotted everything with Sirocco especially if you charged it up.

People may have expected similar boss fights to the main game or considered Nataruk such an upgrade to the Sirocco in terms of damage output that they couldn't possibly struggle against the bosses.

They weren't used to push-back in any way because the game never offers up any. Sure you CAN struggle but almost everything in the game that isn't Steel Path is just gonna have you completely off-guard for the Archon fights.

That said I agree with you, they aren't crazy difficult and they can definitely be done on the first try, I only died once against the Wolf but was helped by the Stalker so didn't count it as an actual "death." I really enjoyed them personally, a massive breath of fresh air fighting bosses with actual boss mechanics as opposed to shooting and slashing each WF boss in the face, some of my favorite boss fights in the game for sure.