Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[Void2258]

Also from watching the live gameplay, it looks like Koumei's decree challenges have trouble registering fully (I saw lots of times it should have counted but did not), so I hope they fix this for release.

[Ardhanarishvara]

Is this to say that Caliban's Fusion Strike no longer applies any sort of lingering defense-stripping field or that the beam also armour strips in addition? Because, if the field is just GONE, that is a MASSIVE change to his play-style that will burn so much more energy to armour-strip large numbers of enemies. My current build is designed around leaving a number of those fields around at various choke-points in order to strip new enemies on the fly, often moving between distant allies to support them by dropping fields nearby to weaken enemies, not dissimilar from Xaku's Gaze.

If the stripping field is gone, the rework has essentially nerfed the most iconic and powerful thing about current Caliban into the dirt, and even as a habitual Caliban enjoyer, I find myself struggling to find excitement in the end result. It would feel akin to dropping Grendel's Feast limit from "as many as he can fit" to 5; it would be changing the core thing I liked about him in the first place.

I do hope that if the radial field is removed, that it at least comes back as an augment.

[vFlitz]

18 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

I do hope that if the radial field is removed, that it at least comes back as an augment.

Seeing as this rework was supposed to breathe life into the infamously most unused and underbaked frame, I really don't think it should cut out what little good he already had just to peddle it back as augments later. That's just wrong.

[Vazumongr]

I am admittedly disappointed with the Caliban rework. Before diving into why I am disappointed, the QoL changes are great. Sentient Wrath no longer applying the obnoxiously horrendous Lifted status effect - which would break certain weapons from functioning such as Torid when shooting targets affected by Lifted, along with making any follow up incredibly unreliable. Razor Gyre no longer being a channel - all though I think the ability should have been removed entirely. Lethal Progeny finally not requiring us to cast the ability 3 times to summon our sentients is nice. Lethal Progeny also letting us summons other types of sentients is amazing! Having Conculyst cast Fusion Strike in tandem with Caliban is #*!%ing sick, I love that so much. Fusion Strike applying the defense strip on the beams themselves is also a, change for sure. Previously, we had a big AoE field that persisted after the casting of Fusion Strike and would strip the defenses of any enemy that walked through, Now it's only what is hit with the beam. I actually now having typed this, am not a fan of that change. And unfortunately that's where the appreciations of the change end.

"A twisted hybrid of Warframe and Sentient, he is raised from the wreckage of the Old War. This is Caliban, the survivor, the adaptive." - Nilah
"Meet Caliban, the heir of twin kingdoms ascends. Biological and Sentient life meet in Caliban. An adept monarch, he offers crowd control and survivability. His creator had more than one world in mind." - In-Game Description
"...emphasizing the adaptability and synergy of a Sentient-Warframe’s kit" - This very post.
"...there’s no defense Caliban can’t adapt to." - This very post.

Has all that gone out the window? Are y'all re-creating his very identity with the rework? Instead of being a Warframe-Sentient hybrid that focuses on Survivability and Adaptation, we just take the route of making him do more damage, and making it easier to more damage, in a game that's been devolving into nothing but do more damage? Did by "emphasizing the adaptability" mean to the current state of the game and not actual gameplay situations? You know what would have matched those statements perfectly? Adaptive damage, just like our other Sentient Warframe, Revenant's Danse Macabre!! But instead we get Tau damage... which doesn't have any interaction with the resistances in the game. It's not synergy or anti-synergy, it's a complete lack of ANY synergy.

And for the Razor Gyre change. A traversal tool? In a game where we can bullet jump, fly, and teleport, all without using abilities? All it's good for is applying a status effect to increase our status effect damage (as if Slash+Viral haven't been the Gods of doing status effect damage for literally the last 4+ years), and some minor minor heal/shield. At least it's not a channel anymore and doesn't send you flying into the air when you dash into enemy because that was god awful. So at least it's been focused on doing more damage and helping us do more damage I guess...

Sentient Wrath, I've no complaints. I am 100% on board with the changes here and wouldn't change a thing. For Lethal Progeny, we already have Conculyst which is focused on doing damage. Why waste the Ortholyst on, once again, trying to do more damage? We could apply other status effects, we could do some CC, plenty of options other than 'boost damage'. I know Crowd Control has been increasingly useless since the Eximus Reborn update but this just looks like that design is being embraced. Summulyst is dope, I love it.

Fusion Strike. Just more damage and worse defense stripping. That's it. That's the change. Previously it did 5,000 damage per cast and left an AoE field for a duration that stripped defenses of anything entering. Now it does 90,000 damage per cast and no longer strips defense in the AoE field. And the enemies explode taking more damage. I'm glad our lovely use-to-be summon/survival/adaptive/crowd-control focused Warframe has turned into yet another "do big damage" frame.

This is longer than I expected. I quit playing Warframe when the damage resistance update went live. Almost every change since the Eximus Reborn update has been focused on, "just do more damage" and generally in the AoE sense. It's disheartening to see and it's simply not for me. I only check back every now and then because a small part of me hopes DE will steer away from this direction of gameplay. I hope the rest of the community enjoys the Caliban rework.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

On 2024-09-28 at 11:40 AM, PollexMessier said:

And if it's a replacement... Just don't. Recasting Nullstar doesn't replace Molecular Fission's current effect of Regenerating Null Star charges.

this. please. I dont want to be hitting 1 all the time x.x

[Lohillus]

1 minute ago, Vazumongr said:

-snip-

I think its important to note that Tau is a status chance increase, not status damage unless they've stated otherwise somewhere I haven't seen and that chance is only 10% per stack

[vFlitz]

9 minutes ago, Lohillus said:

I think its important to note that Tau is a status chance increase, not status damage unless they've stated otherwise somewhere I haven't seen and that chance is only 10% per stack

Well, it's not 100% clearly stated, but it was compared to Dante's Pageflight, which is both status damage and status chance.

[Lohillus]

4 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Well, it's not 100% clearly stated, but it was compared to Dante's Pageflight, which is both status damage and status chance.

"Tau’s Status Effect inflicts Status Chance Vulnerability to enemies affected by it, with a max of 10 Stacks culminating in 100% Status Chance Vulnerability (10% per Stack), with each stack individually lasting 8 seconds! "

 

From the post, it specifies status chance vulnerability twice, that seems pretty clear to me.

[quietcanary]

On 2024-09-27 at 1:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

 

• • Fusion Strike's beam now applies the Armor Strip, not the radial field.

Please don't remove his radial field effect. This will be a nerf to the only tool that has kept him relevant at all this whole time. Just make both apply it. It's a insult to the few people who enjoyed Caliban to downgrade it like that in the name of some made up awkward misuse.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 3:02 AM, Warfoki said:

We need a way to manually remove a wormhole

We do! ☺️👍🏻 Gotta go to Deimos and talk to Son, get the Helminth system by grinding Mother tokens for a little while. After you get it you will be able to remove Wormhole from Nova and put a different Warframe ability over top of it to use.

[GreenWolf97]

"Previously, the damage field left behind is what enabled Armor Stripping, which felt awkward if enemies left before it could apply. Now, it applies when the Beam hits an enemy, making it much easier to work with."

I don't understand this part... it was instantly applied to all enemies which entered in the field... the Acolyte who literally spawned without shield and armor and you could put down 3 of this field... now you have to spam on everything. How is this "much easier to work"?!

The best defense strip ability in the game... his Fusion Strike literally got nerfed and this line of the dev workshop is kinda strange since you never had to wait for the defense strip to apply.

It makes me wonder... 🤔

Edited 9 hours ago by GreenWolf97

[Kyndah]

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Fusion Strike's beam now applies the Armor Strip, not the radial field.

• Previously, the damage field left behind is what enabled Armor Stripping, which felt awkward if enemies left before it could apply. Now, it applies when the Beam hits an enemy, making it much easier to work with.

Can I ask what are you talking about?! I mean.. it was an instant defense strip.. you cast your Fusion Strike.. a bubble appeared with high radius and duration based on your build, then everything that was walking inside this bubble lost it's armor or shield instantly.. this was calibans most powerful ability.. even the acolyte lost everything instantly when it spawned.. so I hope you are gonna fix this.. maybe you should leave his 4th ability.. it will hurt no one. 

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 4:37 AM, Do_High_Go said:

Just reminding you that that mechanic will require you to stop aiming and moving, just how Gear works, because your mouse input goes for the Gearwheel. Also Warframe does not pause when Gearwheel is opened, and even if it did, it still would not if you are in a squad.

 On paper sounds ok, but realistically tapping the ability to cycle can be done while on the move with your Aim unimpeded. In this fast paced game where time does not slow down when you are fiddling with stuff, a gearwheel option loses.

I still would at least like it to be an option in the controls settings. I feel like a lot of times I am stopping and cycling anyways just to make sure I don't pass the mode I need. 🥺 At least with the quick-menu it is consistent where I need to move the analog stick every time. That's my logic to it anyways.

 

I definitely understand where you are coming from though as a PC player, which is why it shouldn't be replacing cycling, but be an option.

[UlyssesTheDM]

2 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

It would feel akin to dropping Grendel's Feast limit from "as many as he can fit" to 5; it would be changing the core thing I liked about him in the first place.

Heyyyy, wait a minute. That happened! 😲 

2 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Is this to say that Caliban's Fusion Strike no longer applies any sort of lingering defense-stripping field or that the beam also armour strips in addition? Because, if the field is just GONE, that is a MASSIVE change to his play-style that will burn so much more energy to armour-strip large numbers of enemies. My current build is designed around leaving a number of those fields around at various choke-points in order to strip new enemies on the fly, often moving between distant allies to support them by dropping fields nearby to weaken enemies, not dissimilar from Xaku's Gaze.

I definitely see where you are coming from. You were using Caliban's 4 as armor-strip area denial before, and from what I have read and what Pablo was saying it does sound like they got rid of it which is sad. I feel like the field of armor strip adds utility to the ability, and there is no point in taking it away.

[UlyssesTheDM]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

I agree with this, it bugs me so much. I dont understand why they dont give him sentient movment. He really should have his own custom movement animations.

If you can float you shouldnt be always walking. Its a weird flex to never use it.

 

Also, I couldn't tell 100% but if the ephemera for Caliban also shows up on his summons, that would be such a sick twist!

I concur. Caliban needs some floaty animations! ☺️👍🏻

[UlyssesTheDM]

21 hours ago, Destroyahx87 said:

The changes to Fusion Strike are good, but for the life of me, I can't understand why they took away the armor strip field. It was very useful and fun. I really hope they bring it back. 

Yeahhhh, I'm seeing lots of this coming up from the community. Honestly I hope DE has a way to bring it back before the update drops on Wednesday.

[UlyssesTheDM]

21 hours ago, vFlitz said:

It's like Excalibur being just a worse Baruuk for the most part.

Take it back!

You are right in regards to the exalted weapon, but Excal has Slash Dash which beats out Baruuk instantly with a Ceramic Dagger.

On 2024-09-28 at 11:01 AM, LittleBiscuitAnri said:

Am I misunderstanding or missing something about this augment? Every nova player will have entire rooms primed with 4 by default at all times, so what's the point of null star doing so as well? 

It is added utility, and brings back your Null Stars to keep your DR up.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 11:18 AM, DaShark said:

Based on this explanation, can we expect to see nerfs to the interaction of Sevagoth's Reap and Sow combo with Roar subsume? It's upsetting to see others state that if you aren't using the Roar interaction to one shot nuke enemies, you are playing ineffectively. It's also a very easy AFK strategy as well.

I think that Sevagoth just needs overhauled, especially his Shadow, because for a melee-based frame he is not tanky at all. If DE gave him 300-350 base armor, then he would be good because the healing from Gloom would be able to keep up with proper modding.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 5:56 AM, Udoshi said:

New augment that straight up whips out your archgun during aegis storm and makes repleneishing its ammo take shields or something. She was always supposed to be the helicopter mom, let her be a gunship

Dude! HELLLLL YEAH! 😃 This would make Hildryn a badass in her 4th! Honestly, I have always felt that an exalted Archgun would make more sense for her anyways.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 5:56 AM, Udoshi said:

Balefire Charge should be given the Dante/Noctua book treatment: If you helminth off the 1, she still whips it out during aegis storm. Exactly how he works if you get rid of his exalted weapon - still remains in armory, still moddable, you just lose the power to summon it on demand - and it works with other powers that reference it just fine.

Yes please! 🥺 🙏🏻

 

On 2024-09-28 at 5:56 AM, Udoshi said:

6) if you have time for development or other unused features or powers leftover from her, ah, obvious half baking: Consoliate her 2 and 3 into aone power: Tap 2 for pillage and pillage recall(current functionality), HOLD for Haven. Her 3 would be a new power entirely. Something proper and wonderful or team-useful, a pull, a gather, a slow, primed enemies damage buffs or vulnarbility, granting buffs to team based on the amount of  overshields they have, something like that. Proper defense tank on the ground, terror in the sky power.

Absolutely. This would make so much more sense, especially in the context of the current Augment for these abilities.

On 2024-09-28 at 5:56 AM, Udoshi said:

New augment that straight up whips out your archgun during aegis storm and makes repleneishing its ammo take shields or something. She was always supposed to be the helicopter mom, let her be a gunship.

I said it once, I'll say it once again for the books. HELL YES! 😂😃💯

On 2024-09-28 at 7:20 AM, crazywolfpusher said:

Now I wish for a Hildryn Balefire Charger augment that replace the exalted for an archgun deployment that buff the weapon damage/status and uses her shields as ammunition also allowing her to use archguns during aegis storm. You know, considering that she is from orb valis were archguns are actually needed?

YEEEESSSSS! YES!YES!YES! YES!!!! 🙌🏻 💯

On 2024-09-28 at 8:20 AM, BestGril said:

Could that lift change be also implemented for Titania's Spellbind? Pretty please

This would be very nice for Titania, especially since she zips around in fairy form most of the time and will appreciate the setup for headshots.

 

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 2:32 AM, Crisp said:

Love all the changes for nova as a nova player but i think this would make a bit more sense if it was reversed because you're way more likely to take damage when the enemies are actually sped up than giving you energy for some reason.
Also if the slow/speed are a toggle now does that mean that the neutral "0%" slow build is just dead now in a way?

Absolutely this. They definitely need to be reversed where Slowva drops more energy (sapping the molecular energy from enemies and therefore slowing them) and Speedva drops more health (exciting the molecules and causing faster recovery). It makes more sense thematically and mechanically.

[KingesPrime]

23 hours ago, tynwarichigo said:

well yes but actually no. I would like to continue playing in serious game where people won't all time fastly spam slam like this game was parody not a serious game. I don't like that crazy thing.

This is a perspective I did not consider and is very valid. Thanks!

 

To me it looks awesome, but I can see how to other people it might look silly and that removes the whole cool factor. I always imagined it like a super fast wukong teleporting around slaming things to the ground, That does sound like the Wukong from the myths tbh). But I can easily understand how to someone else it might look like a cartoon doing silly cartoon things and that might not be as cool, although that ALSO sounds like the wukong from the myths hahaha.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-28 at 1:22 AM, Daiphelion said:

His 3 is potentially now a cycle, which have been previously highlighted in Dev Streams as not great for QOL.

I also feel this way!

 

On 2024-09-28 at 2:09 AM, TKDancer said:

you are delirious

 

On 2024-09-28 at 1:56 AM, Rexis12 said:

Sevagoth is a Caster. 

Ember is a Caster. 

Dante is a Caster. 

Caliban is not a Caster, he's a Weapon platform. His abilities are all about buffing his weapon usage.

 

Literally what part of him is a Caster. Three of his abilities are CC focused. 

Hakuna la tatas, both of you.

Although, I must say that Caliban isn't either a caster or weapons platform. You can play him either way you like, but he is in a weird middle ground between being a summoner frame (kinda like Nekros and Revenant) and a debuffer frame (kinda Dante, or Mag maybe). He doesn't spam his abilities like other caster frames like Rexis gave examples of, but he also doesn't buff his own weapons directly like Xaku or Yareli for example.

TLDR, you are both wrong, go sit in the corner and think about what you have done. Jk jk.

[Destroyahx87]

1 hour ago, UlyssesTheDM said:

Yeahhhh, I'm seeing lots of this coming up from the community. Honestly I hope DE has a way to bring it back before the update drops on Wednesday.

Idk if DE checks their forum replies for feedback, but I'm hoping they do. Cause EVERYONE is telling them to keep the armor strip zones. They did say that things are able to change before the drop, so let's hope so. 

[Destroyahx87]

17 minutes ago, UlyssesTheDM said:

I also feel this way!

 

 

Hakuna la tatas, both of you.

Although, I must say that Caliban isn't either a caster or weapons platform. You can play him either way you like, but he is in a weird middle ground between being a summoner frame (kinda like Nekros and Revenant) and a debuffer frame (kinda Dante, or Mag maybe). He doesn't spam his abilities like other caster frames like Rexis gave examples of, but he also doesn't buff his own weapons directly like Xaku or Yareli for example.

TLDR, you are both wrong, go sit in the corner and think about what you have done. Jk jk.

This is kinda wrong now, because with these changes, he'll be a caster/summoner. The summons aren't just mindless bullet sponges, they'll synergize with his kit for added benefits and interactions.

 

His new philosophy is that he'll be constantly switching between sentient types for the best outcome of a situation, while using his other abilities for survivability, damage, and energy sustain. That puts him in the category of a caster.