Melee Galvanized Mods

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

I mean isn't that kinda the point? Guns are for range, melee is for up close and personal stuff unless you're using glaives or gunblades? You can definitely fit range mods and use melee influence to deal with further away enemies, but they aren't meant to be able to murder an entire room full of enemies at the same time?

 

It's a flaw involving enemy density and damage intake.

When I came back I found it odd they nerf'd melee to 1/3 it's damage output since we generally couldn't survive long enough to make use of the damage output anyways. Endurance runners almost never used melee weapons for good reason. We have tons of damage amp sources but far less options to survive.

Making these very clunky attack animations also increased damage intake for melee so it's generally just not worth it. Melee works okay in Circuit because there's more Decrees that massively increase the damage output compared to guns. Not to mention things like Movement speed.

[crimsonspartan1]

12 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

It's a flaw involving enemy density and damage intake.

When I came back I found it odd they nerf'd melee to 1/3 it's damage output since we generally couldn't survive long enough to make use of the damage output anyways. Endurance runners almost never used melee weapons for good reason. We have tons of damage amp sources but far less options to survive.

Making these very clunky attack animations also increased damage intake for melee so it's generally just not worth it. Melee works okay in Circuit because there's more Decrees that massively increase the damage output compared to guns. Not to mention things like Movement speed.

I mean, you prolly wouldn't run into large groups with melee with a squishy frame in high level content in the first place unless you have ways to survive like shield gating?

As mentioned, melee influence massively helps with large groups, but that involves modding for electricity or using a weapon that can inflict shock regardless of mods. Strong combo builds can also still massacre groups with ease as long as you can maintain the combo count which is relatively easy unless you're unlucky enough to not find an enemy nearby which is unlikely in high level steel path content where the enemy spawns are pretty nuts.

I'd be down for melees being more on par with guns, but they're still ridiculously powerful. I guess if we had a way to increase the follow through of melee attacks then maybe that'd help with dealing with large crowds with melee (or if it didn't exist)? Some attacks from some stances could definitely be less janky as well but there are definitely a good couple of attacks that perform well.

[4thBro]

2 hours ago, vFlitz said:

I don't think those mods will change much in the grand scheme of things. Power isn't really what melee lacks, it just can't compete with guns' efficiency when it comes to handling multiple somewhat spread out enemies. Melee Influence and glaives and a few other niche cases get around that problem, so if they can benefit from galvanized mods the meta just gets even more meta, while everything else continues to stay behind.

You're right in a vacuum, but applied to Warframe, you can only one-shot a map so hard.

 

If the meta stuff can deal 200mil damage to a screen and the off-meta stuff can do 100mil to a screen, they're effectively tied despite one being twice as strong.

[4thBro]

40 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

It's a flaw involving enemy density and damage intake.

When I came back I found it odd they nerf'd melee to 1/3 it's damage output since we generally couldn't survive long enough to make use of the damage output anyways. Endurance runners almost never used melee weapons for good reason. We have tons of damage amp sources but far less options to survive.

Making these very clunky attack animations also increased damage intake for melee so it's generally just not worth it. Melee works okay in Circuit because there's more Decrees that massively increase the damage output compared to guns. Not to mention things like Movement speed.

 

You don't think melee does enough damage???

 

1. You can play Slam, which obviously is insane. We know this, but yet, it's still melee so I'm starting with it.
2. You can play Influence, which is another way to AoE as melee. And the damage is still instantly lethal to 9999's.
3. You can play bleed, and even if you don't spread it to the entire screen (like with Nezha's 4), you could also just zoom around really fast and clear that way. With bleed, every swing is a touch of death anyway, dealing millions of true damage per slash stack, amplified by either Melee Duplicate or Melee Afflictions. So just deathtouch everything and have fast move speed, and you're once again good to go.
4. And if you don't wanna play bleed, then may I interest you in Armor strip? Apply a full strip and you'll once again be able to zoom around and deathtouch everything for millions of damage per swing.

 

Melee has a LOT of ways to play into 9999's. And, frankly, it's my most go-to type of gameplay, because I find it to be the most flexible for building, and the most reliable damage output.

 

Melee can do anything. Where else can you consistently find weapons capable of both red-critting AND double/triple status applications per hit? And even if you want range, WITHOUT even talking about Influence or Slam, you can run gunblades, glaives, Ceramic Dagger, Corufell... All of which are basically "guns" that can take full advantage of melee's crazy scaling.

[Xzorn]

33 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

I mean, you prolly wouldn't run into large groups with melee with a squishy frame in high level content in the first place unless you have ways to survive like shield gating?

 

Oh, I wouldn't even bother trying to melee with a frame under 80k eHP. This is the reality of melee with even more beef.
If I take my 140k eHP Chroma into a Survival. I'll die faster with melee than a gun as enemies scale.

DE has failed to consider basic melee concepts like speed, higher damage, higher CC potential, higher survival.
One or more of these is needed for melee to compete against ranged. It's like that for nearly any game.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

3 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I guess?  For a lot of them, the secondary effect is just a boost to the normal effect that depends on kills or some other criteria.  I wouldn't be surprised if each of these melee galvanized mods are the same- +some effect, +more of that effect for each kill for a certain amount of time.

 

But of course I don't know for sure!  I'm going off of the precedent that DE has set.

Yeah, fair enough

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

4 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

I am not talking expectations (much). I am talking about the mods mentioned. And I am not the only one. You expected discussion, right? 

Yeah, my bad.

 

4 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Because they do not ALL have the second effect, actually most do not have second effect at all

Whether they are unique second effects really doesn't not matter. Just wether it is a effect that adds onto what it already gives you is more or less what I am focusing one. Not saying what you are saying is incorrect, just not specifically what I was talking about. I do wonder what in the world they are gonna do for them. As true steel is probably expected to be a hybrid/BR type thing for crit. For the others, not a clue. The status mod would be quite obvious but we already have actual CO already. Reflex coil is a bit weirder, but more than likely gonna do something for heavy attacks (Obviously.) 
 

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

my 140k eHP Chroma

 

I'd like to see your math & setup for this. Because I know what it takes to get this kind of EHP, and I have a feeling you're not doing one thing, and are doing another, and this is why you're still dying.

 

I could be wrong!

But I don't think so. So I am legitimately curious. Care to entertain?

[Xzorn]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

 

I'd like to see your math & setup for this. Because I know what it takes to get this kind of EHP, and I have a feeling you're not doing one thing, and are doing another, and this is why you're still dying.

I could be wrong!

But I don't think so. So I am legitimately curious. Care to entertain?

 

I don't use Circuit as a parse for frame performance and I don't consider Adaptation when calculating eHP if that's what you're thinking. Chroma has no problems in Circuit because of the Armor conversion to Strength, Corrosive %Armor and other Decrees which put him over 1,000% Power with free HP.

To address the previous reply. I only mentioned melee damage being dropped to 1/3 when I came back as an odd observation since the damage output couldn't be used. You'd die long before making use of it. Like I mentioned it's an enemy density + damage intake issue.

I don't know why DE thought spawning 10x enemies was a good idea for SP but it further turns DPS into Damage Per Volume.

An old comparison was when I used Ignis in Sorties back in the day. Not a lot of damage but it covers a large area. I purposely used Heavy Cal over a Primed Bane mod for similar reasons. More coverage. Players could one-tap each enemy at a time while I just held left click on a room.

 

Spoiler

404% Power 2,801HP 855 Energy (Heat)
Vex 450 * ( 1 + 1.8 + (3.5 * 4.04) = 7,623
DR
(7,623) / (7,623 + 300) = 0.962136
Raw eHP 2,801 / (1 - 0.962136) = 73,974

QT Energy eHP 2,052 / (1 - 0.962136) = 54,194
Total 128,167 eHP
Raw Health Vs Bleeds (2,801 + 2,052) = 4,853

404% Power 4,001HP 855 Energy  + Blessing (Heat)
Vex 450 * ( 1 + 1.8 + (3.5 * 4.04) = 7,623
DR
(7,623) / (7,623 + 300) = 0.962136
Raw eHP 4,001 / (1 - 0.962136) = 105,667

QT Energy eHP 2,052 / (1 - 0.962136) = 54,193
Total 159,860 eHP

 

 

[4thBro]

11 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I don't use Circuit as a parse for frame performance and I don't consider Adaptation when calculating eHP if that's what you're thinking. Chroma has no problems in Circuit because of the Armor conversion to Strength, Corrosive %Armor and other Decrees which put him over 1,000% Power with free HP.

 

Yes! I was assuming you were calculating Adaptation, indeed.

But are you saying that you were calculating Decrees for the 140k EHP? 😖

 

Because I know that you're not going to get that much reduction from Armor alone, and I'm sure nobody's gonna use a bunch of aerial dmg reduction mods.

You're typically hard-pressed to even get to 95%+ from Armor alone. (90% itself takes serious investment.) It would take either Eclipse (the easier route) or Null Star (the older route) to hit that kind of EHP. And I know most people don't even think to do that, cuz everyone still sees Eclipse as Alternate Roar.

The last option is Quick Thinking, and Chroma DOES have high Flow energy. But then you want Pain Threshold, and instant energy refills, and now we're just asking for a lot yet again, so it falls back to Eclipse to hit that kind of EHP.

[Xzorn]

36 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

The last option is Quick Thinking, and Chroma DOES have high Flow energy. But then you want Pain Threshold, and instant energy refills, and now we're just asking for a lot yet again, so it falls back to Eclipse to hit that kind of EHP.

 

I use QT It's in the calculation. You don't need Pain Threshold for high DR tanking. There's little chance of stagger.

Eclipse is something I'd use if I still did Endurance runs. It's not needed for Circuit. I use Nourish + Grace + Blessing.

I've run Chroma 6-7k Circuit before. His Vex hits 4k+ on 10k HP. Rhino is another funny one. Got his Roar up to +900%.

• Every 50 Armor grants 5%/10%/15% Ability Strength
• Finishers grant +200% Ability Strength to your next Power Strike or Warframe Ability.

Use the Parazon +50% and Snapshot Vex after a Finisher. Ironclad Charge also works for the Power Strength. You can get some silly numbers.

EDIT: Here I can just show my Chroma

Spoiler

+25% Growing Power +50% Parazon = 426% Power. The eHP calc is kinda mid cuz I'm not gunna Parazon every Ward cast.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Xzorn

[RyllusPurple]

I wanted primed prowess, not a version that needs you to score kill to get a higher status chance.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

3 minutes ago, RyllusPurple said:

I wanted primed prowess, not a version that needs you to score kill to get a higher status chance.

We could end up getting something that blends CO and Weeping. Just sayin...