Feedback Request for Nova's "Antimatter Drop" in the Conclave

[[DE]Sam]

Howdy, Tenno!

With Nova's rework, we wanted to ask how people felt about Nova's second Ability, Antimatter Drop, within the Conclave, following the Koumei Update rework. With the Ability's high damage and now high maneuverability, we wanted to ask if folks wished for it to stay as is or if we should change how it functions within this activity.

Thanks!  
 

[GameGhost123]

Thanks for asking for feedback.  I shared this thread with the conclave community they'll get back to you when they come up with their thoughts on it. Shouldn't be too long. 

[traybong111]

The fact that antimatter is a lot more visible is actually an improvement over the past, this is greatly appreciated.

I feel either the velocity upon 2 re-press or the damage has to be drastically reduced. AOE could also use a small nerf, but it's the combination of its velocity and high damage that make the ability problematic. Since the velocity is a shared mechanic with PvE, I would wager it would be easier to nerf the base damage.

Also please look into Wormhole, as removing the duration in PvE has led to funky consequences. If a Nova player is client, sets up a Wormhole and dies, their portal stays permanently.

[gwan]

Yeah, a damage nerf would be welcome. Or at least disable the "launching" mechanic when you press 2 again.

The fact that it also follows you enables some pretty brain-dead "kamikaze" maneuvers as well.

!!! ALSO !!! Please fix the fact that you can place portals that last forever (no time out + infinite charges) if you die before they expire.
 

Edited October 3 by [DE]Taylor
removed a quote and response to a now-hidden comment (off topic)

[Okami_Amaterasu]

Thanks for asking. At the moment Nova is broken in multiple ways, from the mine having a huge AoE that does a ton of damage to her portals being buggy, sometimes going invisible and persisting forever after death.

As for Antimatter Drop, same thing as above. Too big of an AoE, too much damage for said AoE (so if the AoE was smaller and the explosion wasn't capable of 1 shotting tankier frames, it would be ok IMO). There currently exists a bug where you can cast a second orb for free after manually speeding up your first casted orb.

The augment that turns it into a stationary mine has also been broken for a long time between the player placing it and clients, leading to a lot of situations like this: https://imgur.com/gRrin3v making it incredibly frustrating to play at a high speed when a Nova is present.

 

Miter is also currently bugged to do enough damage to 1 shot any Warframe in Conclave. Specifically it does twice it's intended damage.

Zephyr's tornados are currently bugged to have much more range than intended, leading to large parts of the map temporarily becoming unplayable. They also tend to spawn in walls, meaning you'll just get knocked down and die to them without being able to see them. https://imgur.com/jLen5H3 This is very easily abusable on smaller maps.

Edited October 3 by Okami_Amaterasu
Added Zephyr and Miter bugs too.

[gwan]

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix Vectis, Rubico and Rubico Prime dealing 150% damage since a funky bug related to sniper combo bonus 
Please fix lex prime dealing 120% dmg since a ghost change
Please nerf Magnus, Vasto and Vasto prime's damage that got unintentionally buffed with the "Semis revisited" (?) semi PvE rebalance

Please disable the auto semi fire on hold setting for conclave, it uncaps the fire rate of several weapons and make burst weapons broken 

[GameGhost123]

1 minute ago, gwan said:

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix Vectis, Rubico and Rubico Prime dealing 150% damage since a funky bug related to sniper combo bonus 
Please fix lex prime dealing 120% dmg since a ghost change
Please nerf Magnus, Vasto and Vasto prime's damage that

Yes please fix these they been broken too long especially the snipers. I want my vectis back :(

[Okami_Amaterasu]

3 minutes ago, gwan said:

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix Vectis, Rubico and Rubico Prime dealing 150% damage since a funky bug related to sniper combo bonus 
Please fix lex prime dealing 120% dmg since a ghost change
Please nerf Magnus, Vasto and Vasto prime's damage that got unintentionally buffed with the "Semis revisited" (?) semi PvE rebalance

Please disable the auto semi fire on hold setting for conclave, it uncaps the fire rate of several weapons and make burst weapons broken 

This. Would love to use latron/lato again without them being basically overpowered auto rifles. And being able to use normal vectis again would be nice.

[Hei2346]

8 minutes ago, gwan said:

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix Vectis, Rubico and Rubico Prime dealing 150% damage since a funky bug related to sniper combo bonus 
Please fix lex prime dealing 120% dmg since a ghost change
Please nerf Magnus, Vasto and Vasto prime's damage that got unintentionally buffed with the "Semis revisited" (?) semi PvE rebalance

Please disable the auto semi fire on hold setting for conclave, it uncaps the fire rate of several weapons and make burst weapons broken 

I love the burston and tiberon in conclave. The auto semi fire setting made it too overpowered and unfair tho.

[Okami_Amaterasu]

1 minute ago, Hei2346 said:

I love the burston and tiberon in conclave. The auto semi fire setting made it too overpowered and unfair tho.

Pandero Tiberon gang rise up

[Tachmag]

7 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

With Nova's rework, we wanted to ask how people felt about Nova's second Ability, Antimatter Drop, within the Conclave, following the Koumei Update rework. With the Ability's high damage and now high maneuverability, we wanted to ask if folks wished for it to stay as is or if we should change how it functions within this activity.

Thanks!  
 

Nova itself has quite a few issues at the moment in Conclave.

Answering the topic at hand, Nova's Antimatter Drop is not only far too strong, it's also buggy. Let's take a look into these aspects:
-Nova's Antimatter Drop has high damage and a large AoE. The former by itself is already problematic when not having strong restrictions imposed upon it but add to that large AoE and it becomes much too strong. To top it off, the new "tap 2 to accelerate" mechanic makes it far too easy to guarantee a hit with said AoE.
-Nova's Antimatter Drop has client-host mechanic desyncs: As a host, the Drop's speed seems to be affected by Warframe movement itself. This means that if the nova moves, the orb moves with Nova. This allows for the Nova to instead of guiding the orb to a location, just spawning it then jumping into people with the orb in tow, getting an easy kill.
-Nova's Antimatter Drop is bugged when host: multiple mines may be cast, bypassing the 1 Drop limit.

Proposed solution (note that these are all to be employed simultaneously):

• Remove Antimatter Mine Augment. This augment simply results in getting one shot upon entering a door. The concept of the augment itself is unfit for a PvP shooter with a basis on high mobility.
• Remove the tap acceleration and increase base orb speed slightly. The near teleport of the orb provides a free kill.
• Reduce the AoE radius of the Drop. 6m is way to high for ANY source of AoE in conclave. I suggest 3m of AoE.
• I suggest adding a minimum detonation time. The problem that always arises with AoEs like this ever since the removal of self damage is that players can just jump into other players to kill them without having to deal with additional mechanics (such as leading the Drop in the ability in question's case). A minimum detonation time would result in defenders having enough time to react to an attacking Nova's point-blank orb attempts.
• Reduce the damage of the Drop, both charged and uncharged. The damage is currently 280 uncharged and charged damage is so high that everything just gets one-shot. Proposed numbers are 300 charged and 150 uncharged.
  • ALTERNATIVELY: make the uncharged damage a ridiculously low number like 40 to prevent the previously mentioned point-blank casts, forcing an artificial minimum detonation time due to the charging process time. Do note however, that for this solution to work, the current kick and bullet jump damage bug would need to be fixed: currently, kicks and bullet jumps partially inherit the damage of the equipped melee weapon, an unintended bleedover from Melee 2.9. the impact this bug has on the proposed solution is that kicks can easily charge the Antimatter Drop, which means that a player can just slide cast the Drop to instantly charge it faster than shooting it would allow. Another consideration is making AoE damage not charge the Orb, as that would allow players to just jump at the ground near a player, cast the Drop then proceed to unleash an Ogris rocket at the ground to easily charge the Orb
• Fixing the Antimatter Drop free cast bug: if a Drop detonates before being tap cast again, the next cast consumes no energy, making Drops far more spammable than they should be.
   

 

On the topic of Warframe feedback, I suggest taking a look at some other cases of frame reworks that affected the gamemode:

• Zephyr's rework made her 4th ability, Tornadoes, have massive range, high damage and a knockdown with no LoS check. This frame needs to be removed or, if you want the costlier solution, Tornadoes need to have a LoS check, knockdown removed, inability to inherit Toxin damage from attacks and no instant damage.
• Limbo. This frame needs to go. The Rift is 100% incompatible with Conclave.
• Atlas's passive. Atlas' passive enables melee too strongly in conclave while at the same time, due to being bugged, provides no visual or audio feedback to players when they take damage (no shield break FX or damage).
• Inaros is currently bugged in Conclave ever since his rework: his health got nerfed from 300 base to 165 and PvP specific effects do not apply to him (such as the electric status duration reduction that was added in order to bandaid fix Saryn's electric status interaction bug). In addition, his bettles float around him and are invisible, making for some very jank gameplay.
• Harrow Prime, Titania Prime and Nidus Prime already have their regular counterparts present in Conclave and thus can be added freely with only their stats changed. I recommend the following values:
  • Harrow Prime: 185 Shields, 110 Health, 95 Armor, 0.8 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would put him in line with Frost Prime and Hydroid Prime while keeping his theme of a high shield value frame.
  • Titania Prime: 145 Shields, 125 Health, 80 Armor, 0.9 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would put her in line with Trinity Prime, Nekros Prime and Saryn, keeping her health and armor upgrades from PvE for consistency.
  • Nidus Prime: 0 Shields, 155 Health, 135 Armor, 1.0 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would make him a very slight upgrade to Nidus, making his situation similar to that of Loki Prime (Loki Prime gains 10 armor over regular Loki at no cost, as Loki is already very squishy thus this isn't a problem balance wise).

Edited October 3 by Tachmag

[GameGhost123]

14 minutes ago, Tachmag said:

Limbo. This frame needs to go. The Rift is 100% incompatible with Conclave.

Agreed

Please prioritize the sniper fix though for rubicos and vectis. Out of anything that could be fixed right now that's among the most wanted. 

[GameGhost123]

3 hours ago, gwan said:

Yeah, a damage nerf would be welcome. Or at least disable the "launching" mechanic when you press 2 again.

Yes please 

[gwan]

We appreciate you for asking for feedback after nova's rework, maybe it could be a nice opportunity to do the same with zephyr and melee's past reworks?

Here is what Tachmag meant in his post (unlisted video of zephyr 4 nuking the map after her rework):

 

Also since melee 3.0, a lot of combos deal way too much DMG because of multipliers (unlisted demo showcasing tonfas air attack, during shield gate to see all the dmg numbers): 

 

I compiled most broken combos in this unlisted video: 

 

[Tachmag]

14 hours ago, Tachmag said:

Nova itself has quite a few issues at the moment in Conclave.

Answering the topic at hand, Nova's Antimatter Drop is not only far too strong, it's also buggy. Let's take a look into these aspects:
-Nova's Antimatter Drop has high damage and a large AoE. The former by itself is already problematic when not having strong restrictions imposed upon it but add to that large AoE and it becomes much too strong. To top it off, the new "tap 2 to accelerate" mechanic makes it far too easy to guarantee a hit with said AoE.
-Nova's Antimatter Drop has client-host mechanic desyncs: As a client, the Drop's speed seems to be affected by Warframe movement itself. This means that if the nova moves, the orb moves with Nova. This allows for the Nova to instead of guiding the orb to a location, just spawning it then jumping into people with the orb in tow, getting an easy kill.
-Nova's Antimatter Drop is bugged when host: multiple mines may be cast, bypassing the 1 Drop limit.

Proposed solution (note that these are all to be employed simultaneously):

• Remove Antimatter Mine Augment. This augment simply results in getting one shot upon entering a door. The concept of the augment itself is unfit for a PvP shooter with a basis on high mobility.
• Remove the tap acceleration and increase base orb speed slightly. The near teleport of the orb provides a free kill.
• Reduce the AoE radius of the Drop. 6m is way to high for ANY source of AoE in conclave. I suggest 3m of AoE.
• I suggest adding a minimum detonation time. The problem that always arises with AoEs like this ever since the removal of self damage is that players can just jump into other players to kill them without having to deal with additional mechanics (such as leading the Drop in the ability in question's case). A minimum detonation time would result in defenders having enough time to react to an attacking Nova's point-blank orb attempts.
• Reduce the damage of the Drop, both charged and uncharged. The damage is currently 280 uncharged and charged damage is so high that everything just gets one-shot. Proposed numbers are 300 charged and 150 uncharged.
  • ALTERNATIVELY: make the uncharged damage a ridiculously low number like 40 to prevent the previously mentioned point-blank casts, forcing an artificial minimum detonation time due to the charging process time. Do note however, that for this solution to work, the current kick and bullet jump damage bug would need to be fixed: currently, kicks and bullet jumps partially inherit the damage of the equipped melee weapon, an unintended bleedover from Melee 2.9. the impact this bug has on the proposed solution is that kicks can easily charge the Antimatter Drop, which means that a player can just slide cast the Drop to instantly charge it faster than shooting it would allow. Another consideration is making AoE damage not charge the Orb, as that would allow players to just jump at the ground near a player, cast the Drop then proceed to unleash an Ogris rocket at the ground to easily charge the Orb
• Fixing the Antimatter Drop free cast bug: if a Drop detonates before being tap cast again, the next cast consumes no energy, making Drops far more spammable than they should be.
   

 

On the topic of Warframe feedback, I suggest taking a look at some other cases of frame reworks that affected the gamemode:

• Zephyr's rework made her 4th ability, Tornadoes, have massive range, high damage and a knockdown with no LoS check. This frame needs to be removed or, if you want the costlier solution, Tornadoes need to have a LoS check, knockdown removed, inability to inherit Toxin damage from attacks and no instant damage.
• Limbo. This frame needs to go. The Rift is 100% incompatible with Conclave.
• Atlas's passive. Atlas' passive enables melee too strongly in conclave while at the same time, due to being bugged, provides no visual or audio feedback to players when they take damage (no shield break FX or damage).
• Inaros is currently bugged in Conclave ever since his rework: his health got nerfed from 300 base to 165 and PvP specific effects do not apply to him (such as the electric status duration reduction that was added in order to bandaid fix Saryn's electric status interaction bug). In addition, his bettles float around him and are invisible, making for some very jank gameplay.
• Harrow Prime, Titania Prime and Nidus Prime already have their regular counterparts present in Conclave and thus can be added freely with only their stats changed. I recommend the following values:
  • Harrow Prime: 185 Shields, 110 Health, 95 Armor, 0.8 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would put him in line with Frost Prime and Hydroid Prime while keeping his theme of a high shield value frame.
  • Titania Prime: 145 Shields, 125 Health, 80 Armor, 0.9 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would put her in line with Titania Prime, Nekros Prime and Saryn, keeping her health and armor upgrades from PvE for consistency.
  • Nidus Prime: 0 Shields, 155 Health, 135 Armor, 1.0 Mobility, 1.0 Sprint Speed. This would make him a very slight upgrade to Nidus, making his situation similar to that of Loki Prime (Loki Prime gains 10 armor over regular Loki at no cost, as Loki is already very squishy thus this isn't a problem balance wise).

In addition, here's some other changes that could be made to improve the gamemode.

 

Bug Fixes

• Bug fix: When a Nova dies as client with a Portal active, the Portal does not despawn, allowing for unintentional Portal stacking.
  
   
• Bug fix: Rubico, Rubico Prime and Vectis are currently suffering from a bug that makes Sniper combo's 1st hit bonus, 50% extra damage, apply to them unintentionally.

 

Balance Changes

• Atlas Prime: Currently has too much EHP, being an entire mobility tier's worth of mobility tankier than the rest of the tanks. Suggested changes: Shields 165 -> 145, Health 125 to 115. This would put him in line with Hydroid Prime and Frost Prime.
• Ivara Prime: Currently has too much EHP, being almost and entire mobility tier's worth of mobility tankier than the rest of the lights. Suggested changes: Health 100 -> 105, Mobility 1.0 -> 0.9. This would put her in the mobility tier her EHP was designed for while making sure she isn't too frail for said tier.
• Octavia Prime: Currently is ever so slightly overtuned as a light frame. Suggested changes: Shields 145 -> 140. This would put her in line with other lights.

 

 

 

Edited October 4 by Tachmag

[[DE]Sam]

Howdy again!

I've put a poll in at the top to allow for some extra input on Nova's 2 from everyone while collecting feedback. Thanks!

[Tachmag]

1 minute ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy again!

I've put a poll in at the top to allow for some extra input on Nova's 2 from everyone while collecting feedback. Thanks!

Both would be ideal

[GameGhost123]

1 hour ago, gwan said:

We appreciate you for asking for feedback after nova's rework, maybe it could be a nice opportunity to do the same with zephyr and melee's past reworks?

Here is what Tachmag meant in his post (unlisted video of zephyr 4 nuking the map after her rework):

 

Also since melee 3.0, a lot of combos deal way too much DMG because of multipliers (unlisted demo showcasing tonfas air attack, during shield gate to see all the dmg numbers): 

 

I compiled most broken combos in this unlisted video: 

 

Great post that addresses alot of the current problems we face. 

1 hour ago, Tachmag said:

Both would be ideal

Agreed 

1 hour ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy again!

I've put a poll in at the top to allow for some extra input on Nova's 2 from everyone while collecting feedback. Thanks!

Thank you so much ♥ 

Edited October 3 by GameGhost123

[Okami_Amaterasu]

Honestly DE collecting feedback on Conclave matters was the last thing I expected. This is a huge W though.

[GameGhost123]

3 minutes ago, Okami_Amaterasu said:

Honestly DE collecting feedback on Conclave matters was the last thing I expected. This is a huge W though.

And de taylor was looking in here not to mention it looked like they deleted the conclave haters post and left only the conclave players posts. They do care ❤ lol

[Tachmag]

On 2024-10-03 at 4:10 PM, Hei2346 said:

I love the burston and tiberon in conclave. The auto semi fire setting made it too overpowered and unfair tho.

 

On 2024-10-03 at 4:05 PM, Okami_Amaterasu said:

This. Would love to use latron/lato again without them being basically overpowered auto rifles. And being able to use normal vectis again would be nice.

 I mean, all of those weapons were already busted without the Auto trigger.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

I don't think recast should be disabled. It's an interesting addition to what was already a really unique ability set- I'd be sad to see it go.

Definite yes to damage and AOE nerfs.

[Tachmag]

35 minutes ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

I don't think recast should be disabled. It's an interesting addition to what was already a really unique ability set- I'd be sad to see it go.

Definite yes to damage and AOE nerfs.

The recast is the most problematic part. It makes the orb extremely easy to land hits with.