Levelling Up Tests Amount To Cyber Discrimination.

[ObviousLee]

 

 

No, no they don't. They are literal content stop gaps and yet another LOTU$ APPROVED TIME$INK. They don't improve the actual ability usage in WF, they don't teach spatial awareness or ttk, they don't improve enemy resistance awareness or how to avoid damage traps, they don't teach targeting context or how to dismantle an enemy squad in the most beneficial order, they don't teach anything. Thank to leaky memory usage and input lag, half of them only teach you how bad WF is currently optimized even after cutting frametime loads in half for the PS4.

 

There is no skill involved in passing an arbitrary rote sequence. All the mastery test teach you to be, ironically enough, is how to be an annoying self-centric rusher in warframe, something the devs supposedly frown on.

 

They are the literal definition of pointless time sink.

now THIS is a statement i can get behind. had the OP made something pretty like this, i would have been all to happy to agree.

[Xylia]

I will admit I don't like how most tests involve a time limit, but well. If they can think of something better, hey awesome.

 

I don't like the 24hr penalty and the blindness going into the test, sure.

 

I think the tests themselves are a good enough idea in of itself (again, it is kinda like Belts in Martial Arts, which Warframe is loosely based upon). Sure, they could use tweaks (the game is a beta afterall), but the tests themselves as an idea are fine.

 

Some of the tests could use a tweak though.

 

But to outright call it "discrimination" and post a whine thread, while admitting he's too lazy to put forth proper effort to pass the test?

 

Yeah...that's... over the top. No offense, OP.

[Sidathe]

This is what kills the OP's credibility for me too. He right up said that he doesn't like the test, and can't put forth the focus and determination to actually pass it because he feels he doesn't have to which is a round-about way of saying he's too lazy to do it because he doesn't like doing it. No offense meant, but... I don't know any other word to use to describe that, other than "laziness".

 

While the OP shouldn't have mentioned themselves in the initial post, there is a point. Think it involves people who aren't that great at the game not getting to get stuff, but what would help is if that section of the game were given a deep look at, then improved upon repeatedly. Maybe even with cutscenes, explanations beforehand, and a description of the test you're about to take.

[Empiren]

 

 

No, no they don't. They are literal content stop gaps and yet another LOTU$ APPROVED TIME$INK. They don't improve the actual ability usage in WF, they don't teach spatial awareness or ttk, they don't improve enemy resistance awareness or how to avoid damage traps, they don't teach targeting context or how to dismantle an enemy squad in the most beneficial order, they don't teach anything. Thank to leaky memory usage and input lag, half of them only teach you how bad WF is currently optimized even after cutting frametime loads in half for the PS4.

 

There is no skill involved in passing an arbitrary rote sequence. All the mastery test teach you to be, ironically enough, is how to be an annoying self-centric rusher in warframe, something the devs supposedly frown on.

 

They are the literal definition of pointless time sink.

 

 

There really isn't a point to the test outside of time-sinking is there?

 

As much as people want to delude themselves into thinking it has meaning, it really doesn't.

[TheThreadWeaver]

There really isn't a point to the test outside of time-sinking is there?

 

As much as people want to delude themselves into thinking it has meaning, it really doesn't.

 

What is a videogame, then, if not just a massive time-sink?

[Empiren]

What is a videogame, then, if not just a massive time-sink?

 

Try harder next time.

[Ashnal]

I just knew I should have stayed objective and kept it "discrimination" only. Going subjective by bringing myself into it was a BIG mistake because that is the only point people are finding accessible . . .

 

Empiren is the only one who actually sees what my thread is about, which is a much bigger picture than me and my attitude towards levelling up tests.

 

However, I do know why this happens, people have difficulty handling the abstract, much better to have something clearly identifiable. It's like the truck which mows down the people waiting at the bus stop, blame the driver - the fact that it was an unavoidable mechanical failure is of no interest - because blaming the truck, an inanimate object, brings little satisfaction.

In this instance those who are discriminated against stand as faceless individuals so far better to put the emphasis on my lack of interest in a pointless test.

 

There are one hell of a lot of assumptions here. I haven't said I couldn't pass the tests, I belong to a clan so would need the levelling up ( but it seems most here assume I'm not in a clan, why else would they just brush off the possibility so lightly ? ), etc. etc., but it is amusing to see how so many replies are more about the poster's perception than the issue in my thread, almost as if each person is considering their perception above all others . .but then, isn't that the way in this cyber world . . . it sort of answers my statement, although discrimination in another form.

I'll bite and address the big picture level that is skill barriers in gaming.

 

Skill barriers have been in gaming since its invention really, even before video games existed. To me, gaming is all about facing a challenge and using your mental and physical skill to overcome that challenge. One of the reasons video games are so popular is they can cater to a wide variety of skill levels and tastes, and present challenges that have no real world consequences for failure.

 

If you consider the original Super Mario Bros. game, you see that the very first skill barrier in that game is the very first goomba hell bent on killing Mario. Some players will jump over him, and thus the skill barrier, while others will run into him and die. Those players that fail are given the opportunity to retry as many times as they want to beat that challenge. Even so, until those players actually manage to jump over that first goomba the game is discriminating against them and barring them from seeing the rest of the game. Compare that now to Warframe, where the mastery tests are tests that bar you from using certain weapons and warframes if you cannot pass them. In that comparison Warframe penalizes you less for failure than Super Mario Bros. did, at least Warframe allows you to still play through all of the missions with the majority of weapons and warframes even if you're mastery rank 0.

 

At any rate, I believe skill barriers are at the very core of gaming, so asking them to be taken out is pretty much openly admitting that you hate being challenged, and that you dislike the typical cycle of improving your skills and progressing farther. I would suggest three different options for you: either be patient and practice the skills you need to complete the test, never beat the test and continue to play the game for its other aspects contently, or quit playing the game all together, Complaining on the forum isn't going to accomplish much. Either you have the skill to pass the test or you don't, simple enough.

 

And P.S. calling skill barriers "discrimination" is putting way too much of a negative spin on it, even if it is technically correct.

[CaptainEras]

Ok since your response is generally what everyone else is saying more or less.

 

1. No. Games at their core are for enjoyment. Now you can "challenge" the player to increase that enjoyment, but that does not work for all the players. Case and point, Dark Souls, was a "tough" game. Some people enjoyed it because of that, some people hated it. "Challenging the player" should be done in the correct scenario, a boss battle, or a high level enemy perhaps or difficult ai. Challenging him upon leveling up is rather pointless(more in #2).

 

2. The thing is, mastery test just lock content behind them.After grinding to the next mastery rank you are met with a challenge. It is pretty clear that the developers want to drag out the game at this point due to the "system" in place to obtain a weapon.

-Mastery rank(level up different weapons/frames)

-Test with a 24hour wait time if you fail.

-Resource gathering.(and timed resource gathering for clan weapons).

 

 

3. The challenge has nothing to really do with your gameplay beforehand, which is usually the reason for the mass amount of failed-test that happen. (more on #4)

 

 

4. This is what the OP is talking about: For unskilled players(and players in general), these challenges represent a meaningless hindrance to their gameplay. Warframe as a whole, is not an exceedingly difficult game, even if you are an unskilled player, most of warframe is easy enough to pick up once you get the hang of it. You really don't need to wall-run, or use stealth, or do any of the things that are in the challenges to play and enjoy the game, even at the higher levels, none of this stuff comes into play. 

-I've never  had to wall-run while shooting, jump to another wall while shooting(again), and then wall-run up. Never. In my entire 200+ hours not once has this ever happened nor has there ever been a need for it.

 

 

5. Most of the mastery test are bugged in some way. This in itself only adds to the frustration.

-Heck, i just failed my 8-9 test because on loading it, the game just got stuck on a black screen and crashed.

-I recently did the 7-8 test, the wall-run-up platform straight up vanished.

 

6. Little to no explanation of the test inside the game.

-This is another problem, especially highlighted for the unskilled players. There is little to no direction of the mechanics of the test.  Just a big "here you go!" kind of entry. Not only that, certain frames or certain weapons are ill-suited for each individual mastery test with NO EXPLANATION of such beforehand.

----------

 

7. This is the separate point, the mastery test never give you anything. This kind of makes them....pointless by design. Mastery rank unlocks new content, affinity levels, credits and resources used for crafting/modding, master test....just seem to be there to hinder the player's experience.  They don't even give a reward, which they should to help out new players. A simple amount of credits(50-100k) or even a mod that is vital to the core builds like the multishot or redirect.

 

8. Optional, not mandatory. The test themselves being so irrelevant to the mastery process and the game in general should serve as an extra service, not a mandatory-to-level-up one.

Every point spot on . .we are completely on the same page with every comment . . .

 

Note the post following this one of yours, just like nearly all of the replies to mine where the poster has completely missed all points being made and going off on a tangent with something dreamed up by themselves.

 

I have said over and over what my post is about and what it's not about only to be followed by something bearing no relationship to my point. Even moving off of the "discrimination" theme - something totally misunderstood judging by the replies - and onto the mastery tests, it is easy for me to understand where they are coming from and why, but apart from you everyone else doesn't seem to have the capability to view something from outside of their own limited and habitual perception.

 

 

My point isn't complicated, but bringing it to this forum has sure as hell made it so . .

[Xylia]

Every point spot on . .we are completely on the same page with every comment . . .

 

Note the post following this one of yours, just like nearly all of the replies to mine where the poster has completely missed all points being made and going off on a tangent with something dreamed up by themselves.

 

I have said over and over what my post is about and what it's not about only to be followed by something bearing no relationship to my point. Even moving off of the "discrimination" theme - something totally misunderstood judging by the replies - and onto the mastery tests, it is easy for me to understand where they are coming from and why, but apart from you everyone else doesn't seem to have the capability to view something from outside of their own limited and habitual perception.

 

 

My point isn't complicated, but bringing it to this forum has sure as hell made it so . .

 

Seriously?

 

You start the thread with what sounds like a whine post, where you describe in detail that you can't pass this mastery test and then you pull the "discrimination" card (even though the game is completely NOT discriminating, every player has the same chance of success. If a player can't succeed, then it is the player's own fault except for the few times tests are absolutely broken which tends to get fixed). You admit in the initial post that you are failing because you can't concentrate on doing the test because of how disgruntled you are with doing it and you describe in detail how you "lose focus" (which sounds like giving up to me) mid-way through and you fail the test.

 

Then, when people try to give you advice on how to past the test, you then go "b-b-but I shouldn't have to take the test! This is discriminating all of the people who can't do the tests! Stop looking at my example and consider the big picture!"

 

Then we try to explain why the tests are a good thing (they reward the player by overcoming challenges, by unlocking certain pieces of equipment at different levels) and you + that other guy who joined in defending you all the way are going "b-b-b-b-but the tests are stupid! we hate them!"

 

*sigh*

 

The tests are fine. "Timesink"? Seriously? Okay, I suppose collecting materials is a timesink too. I suppose having to level your weapons before sticking mods on it are a "Timesink" too. Oh wait, that one guy called it a "LOTU$ APPROVED TIME$INK" didn't he?

 

What's next? Mods should be just given to us? Or maybe Void should appear on the star map, because farming keys is a "time$ink" too, right?

 

Honestly, people.

 

The tests are there to....well.... test you. If you can't pass the test, then... you don't qualify for a higher mastery rank, which means you don't use any equipment that requires that rank. That's just the way it is.

 

Someone else used the Super Mario Bros example.... were you one of the people who went "OMG WHAT'S WITH THE STUPID HAMMER GUYS?? ARRRGH! Why couldn't they just remove them so I could get through this level?"

 

Warframe is a game that many people say is "too easy" already. You want DE to remove one of the few things that does require some iota of player skill?

 

And then, after all of this back-and-forth banter, then you post a self-pity "woe is me, nobody understands me, only one guy here gets what I'm saying" guilt trip post, fishing for people to join your side against us "posters who go off on tangents" (everything we posted was perfectly relevant to your Original Post, btw).

Edited December 4, 2013 by Xylia

[fatpig84]

There are some good points to be made about accessibility for certain gamers.  I recall a crippled war vet playing Mass Effect multiplayer with absolute awesome precision, using his remaining hand and a stick held in his mouth. 

 

Some color blind players may have extra difficulty with survival missions or void puzzle rooms, for example.  And some players may inherently have reaction time problems, nerve damage, etc.

 

I'm not sure what the appropriate solution is, but generally speaking we come to have fun.  Let's all have fun.

 

 

Dude i have a slipped disc condition after being discharged from the army in 2007.

Then I was lucky I to land a normal day job. :)

 

 

Again at the OP, the timer isn't particularly difficult, I used a loki for that test without radar.

I just sprinted everywhere and shoot them. Some frames have it easier simply by pressing 4.

 

Otherwise put on Fleeting E and streamline on a Rhino, press 4 a couple of times and you are done.

[CaptainEras]

I'll bite and address the big picture level that is skill barriers in gaming.

 

Skill barriers have been in gaming since its invention really, even before video games existed. To me, gaming is all about facing a challenge and using your mental and physical skill to overcome that challenge. One of the reasons video games are so popular is they can cater to a wide variety of skill levels and tastes, and present challenges that have no real world consequences for failure.

 

If you consider the original Super Mario Bros. game, you see that the very first skill barrier in that game is the very first goomba hell bent on killing Mario. Some players will jump over him, and thus the skill barrier, while others will run into him and die. Those players that fail are given the opportunity to retry as many times as they want to beat that challenge. Even so, until those players actually manage to jump over that first goomba the game is discriminating against them and barring them from seeing the rest of the game. Compare that now to Warframe, where the mastery tests are tests that bar you from using certain weapons and warframes if you cannot pass them. In that comparison Warframe penalizes you less for failure than Super Mario Bros. did, at least Warframe allows you to still play through all of the missions with the majority of weapons and warframes even if you're mastery rank 0.

 

At any rate, I believe skill barriers are at the very core of gaming, so asking them to be taken out is pretty much openly admitting that you hate being challenged, and that you dislike the typical cycle of improving your skills and progressing farther. I would suggest three different options for you: either be patient and practice the skills you need to complete the test, never beat the test and continue to play the game for its other aspects contently, or quit playing the game all together, Complaining on the forum isn't going to accomplish much. Either you have the skill to pass the test or you don't, simple enough.

 

And P.S. calling skill barriers "discrimination" is putting way too much of a negative spin on it, even if it is technically correct.

I have already posted that going subjective was a mistake, had it been kept objective it would have all been about the "technically correct" in your PS.

My bad for opening the door for everyone to indulge in biased subjective views.

 

Sorry, but your logic is ridiculous, and why does everyone seem to assume I don't like challenges ? . . I spend an inordinate amount of time playing this "Challenging" game so how the hell can anyone assume I don't like challenges . .it just doesn't make any sense.

 

I've been computer gaming for over 30 years so I have a little idea as to what this malarkey is about, and what the mastery test is about doesn't represent the level of my skill.

What beggars belief is all this assumption that I'm an unskilled gamer . . .no-one here knows anything about the myriad games I have shown exemplary skill in . .but that has diddly squat to do with the theme of my thread.

It is interesting to note that the only guy who has demonstrated that he knows what I'm talking about gets blanked because no-one knows what he's talking about. How could they ? if that was to happen then my posts would also be understood.

 

It is also interesting that you should choose Mario Kart, I would have picked COD and Battlefield games, but then, I suppose it's only fair to pick a game which supports the point you want to make, even if it has nothing to do with addressing the point I was trying to make . . .

 

Quote:

"At any rate, I believe skill barriers are at the very core of gaming, so asking them to be taken out is pretty much openly admitting that you hate being challenged, and that you dislike the typical cycle of improving your skills and progressing farther" . . . did you really write that ?

 

I'm not looking for a forum war but this comment and similar ones in other posts leave my flabber ghasted, how can i say any more ? . . I'm in the wrong place . .

[Xylia]

What beggars belief is all this assumption that I'm an unskilled gamer . . .no-one here knows anything about the myriad games I have shown exemplary skill in . .but that has diddly squat to do with the theme of my thread.

 

We're not trying to call you a liar or anything, but we have a hard time imagining how a gamer of any decent skill that you claim to be could have trouble with the Rank6->7 test.

 

I just don't understand it.

 

You've presented yourself as a half-way decent Warframe player, even had someone come in here and back you up on that. You then claim you've 30 years of gaming experience (which means you've been playing since Atari/C64 days), but yet you can't pass the MR6->7 test?

 

Wha...?

 

I don't understand.

 

That's like, I don't know....a Dark Souls master (the guy who's done NG7 on SL1) who can't beat the first boss in Darksiders. You just look at that and go "whaaaat?"

 

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to accuse you of lying about yourself, nor am I contesting what skill you have (or don't have). But I am legitimately shaking my head wondering how you're having trouble with this when you say you've done much harder things in your gaming "career".

[CaptainEras]

Seriously?

 

You start the thread with what sounds like a whine post, where you describe in detail that you can't pass this mastery test and then you pull the "discrimination" card (even though the game is completely NOT discriminating, every player has the same chance of success. If a player can't succeed, then it is the player's own fault except for the few times tests are absolutely broken which tends to get fixed). You admit in the initial post that you are failing because you can't concentrate on doing the test because of how disgruntled you are with doing it and you describe in detail how you "lose focus" (which sounds like giving up to me) mid-way through and you fail the test.

 

Then, when people try to give you advice on how to past the test, you then go "b-b-but I shouldn't have to take the test! This is discriminating all of the people who can't do the tests! Stop looking at my example and consider the big picture!"

 

Then we try to explain why the tests are a good thing (they reward the player by overcoming challenges, by unlocking certain pieces of equipment at different levels) and you + that other guy who joined in defending you all the way are going "b-b-b-b-but the tests are stupid! we hate them!"

 

*sigh*

 

The tests are fine. "Timesink"? Seriously? Okay, I suppose collecting materials is a timesink too. I suppose having to level your weapons before sticking mods on it are a "Timesink" too. Oh wait, that one guy called it a "LOTU$ APPROVED TIME$INK" didn't he?

 

What's next? Mods should be just given to us? Or maybe Void should appear on the star map, because farming keys is a "time$ink" too, right?

 

Honestly, people.

 

The tests are there to....well.... test you. If you can't pass the test, then... you don't qualify for a higher mastery rank, which means you don't use any equipment that requires that rank. That's just the way it is.

 

Someone else used the Super Mario Bros example.... were you one of the people who went "OMG WHAT'S WITH THE STUPID HAMMER GUYS?? ARRRGH! Why couldn't they just remove them so I could get through this level?"

 

Warframe is a game that many people say is "too easy" already. You want DE to remove one of the few things that does require some iota of player skill?

 

And then, after all of this back-and-forth banter, then you post a self-pity "woe is me, nobody understands me, only one guy here gets what I'm saying" guilt trip post, fishing for people to join your side against us "posters who go off on tangents" (everything we posted was perfectly relevant to your Original Post, btw).

More assumptions and immature smartass comments . . . Oh, and Mario Kart wasn't/isn't my kind of game, but I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of why so many, you included, have gone with your fictional perception of me . . but that's ok, takes all sorts . . .

-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++

[fatpig84]

No one said you are lacking skill, but the test you speak off is really low bar.

Compared to even the likes of 10 to 11 (parkour, time limit + ball shooting while wall running), 11 to 12 (shoot the enemies, while having a bunch of near insta kill lasers chasing you, with a time limit to finish killing ALL the enemies) or even 12 to 13.

 

Now your biting point is ALL mastery test are to be scrapped because they are a "waste of time".

But how are they a waste of time ?

The average mastery test takes only 5 minutes, only 5. Many are less due to timers.
In a game where farming days and months for a mod and mastery xp respectively, is considered normal.

 

Neither is your mastery wasted even if you failed the test. It is still added on and you can get it added back later.
 

 

Another point is if you are telling us that none of these tests apply in real gaming experience ! 

Yeah do tell me how does algebra apply to a cashier at a convenience store ? Nope but it is part of education.

 

 

And pray tell what if DE made such content in the future for high skilled parkour players (similar to 10 to 11 test) ?

You are going to sit there and whine that it is waste of time ?

[Xylia]

More assumptions and immature smartass comments . . . Oh, and Mario Kart wasn't/isn't my kind of game, but I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of why so many, you included, have gone with your fictional perception of me . . but that's ok, takes all sorts . . .

 

1). I never said Mario Kart. I said SMB. But then, if you really had "30 years" of gaming experience, you'd know the difference.

2). What "Fictional Perception"? I'm using what you've told me in your very own posts:

 

a). You're an experienced gamer.

b). You're a decent Warframe Player

c). Someone else came in here and said you're a decent Warframe Player

d). You yourself said you couldn't beat the MR6->7 Test which is what spawned this whole thread.

e). You said yourself that you have trouble focusing because halfway through the test... I forget how exactly you said it.. your 'brain shuts down in frustration' or something akin to that.

 

Where is this "Fictional Perception" coming from?

 

Do tell me where I've got you wrong, because I'm using what you've said yourself.

 

But if you keep calling me a liar and keep accusing me of "creating fiction" then I'm going to have to assume you're a troll and start reporting you for it.

[CaptainEras]

We're not trying to call you a liar or anything, but we have a hard time imagining how a gamer of any decent skill that you claim to be could have trouble with the Rank6->7 test.

 

I just don't understand it.

 

You've presented yourself as a half-way decent Warframe player, even had someone come in here and back you up on that. You then claim you've 30 years of gaming experience (which means you've been playing since Atari/C64 days), but yet you can't pass the MR6->7 test?

 

Wha...?

 

I don't understand.

 

That's like, I don't know....a Dark Souls master (the guy who's done NG7 on SL1) who can't beat the first boss in Darksiders. You just look at that and go "whaaaat?"

 

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to accuse you of lying about yourself, nor am I contesting what skill you have (or don't have). But I am legitimately shaking my head wondering how you're having trouble with this when you say you've done much harder things in your gaming "career".

The big assumption here is most saying that I am complaining about not being able to pass this test ? doesn't anyone read the comments before replying ?where have I said I CANNOT pass this test ?

 

No-one here understands the theme of the thread and so just take it that I'm saying the test discriminates, and by so doing confuse individual particulars . . but I have already given up on that one.

 

As for that tripe about, "woe is me", what is this, a bloody kindergarten . .because that is the level of intelligence in some quarters . . . and what the hell is this "Trying to get others to agree with me", jesus wept, I'm definitely in the wrong place because I sure as hell don't take patronizing crap from someone trying to come across as the man, the spokesman for all that is in the world of gaming.

[CaptainEras]

1). I never said Mario Kart. I said SMB. But then, if you really had "30 years" of gaming experience, you'd know the difference.

2). What "Fictional Perception"? I'm using what you've told me in your very own posts:

 

a). You're an experienced gamer.

b). You're a decent Warframe Player

c). Someone else came in here and said you're a decent Warframe Player

d). You yourself said you couldn't beat the MR6->7 Test which is what spawned this whole thread.

e). You said yourself that you have trouble focusing because halfway through the test... I forget how exactly you said it.. your 'brain shuts down in frustration' or something akin to that.

 

Where is this "Fictional Perception" coming from?

 

Do tell me where I've got you wrong, because I'm using what you've said yourself.

 

But if you keep calling me a liar and keep accusing me of "creating fiction" then I'm going to have to assume you're a troll and start reporting you for it.

Thank you, had you down as a forum camper and anorak, the mould never changes . .report all you like you silly little boy . .

[fatpig84]

Acting all holier than thou won't make this forum any better although Xylia is blunter than a sledgehammer at times.

But the fact is, personally many others and I myself don't see mastery rank test as a problem.

It is an appropriate challenge just to further prove myself that I can do it. 

 

I have seen videos of MR13 test, and I think I might fail on the first attempt, but hey if I fail, I will work around it and try it again.

No loss, it will just take some time.

 

And perhaps this is the best test for my fresh 30 Valkyr, since her rip hook does wonders.

[Xylia]

Thank you, had you down as a forum camper and anorak, the mould never changes . .report all you like you silly little boy . .

 

Forum Camper?

 

Seriously?

 

*rolls eyes* Whatever.

 

Oh, and it was you who said this, wasn't it?

 

 

 

I don't mind admitting that I'm on my 4th attempt at doing lvl 6 to lvl 7, failure being largely down to my complete resentment for having such crap in the game so have an attitude of, "f*ck it", my brain refuses to accept making any effort.

 

That's a quoted block from your Original Post.

 

"my brain refuses to accept making any effort".

 

Whatever that means, lol.

 

You stated in your OP that you failed that test 4 times and you implied that you still haven't passed it yet, and continued to carry the thread on as though you haven't.

 

So which is it? You still can't pass it, or you did pass it but you're still complaining about something that's no longer an issue?

 

Acting all holier than thou won't make this forum any better although Xylia is blunter than a sledgehammer at times.

 

I'll take that as a compliment. I don't beat around the bush, to be honest. I like to tell it like it is. Sometimes people get offended over the stupidest/tiniest things.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Xylia

[Empiren]

Ok since your response is generally what everyone else is saying more or less.

 

1. No. Games at their core are for enjoyment. Now you can "challenge" the player to increase that enjoyment, but that does not work for all the players. Case and point, Dark Souls, was a "tough" game. Some people enjoyed it because of that, some people hated it. "Challenging the player" should be done in the correct scenario, a boss battle, or a high level enemy perhaps or difficult ai. Challenging him upon leveling up is rather pointless(more in #2).

 

2. The thing is, mastery test just lock content behind them.After grinding to the next mastery rank you are met with a challenge. It is pretty clear that the developers want to drag out the game at this point due to the "system" in place to obtain a weapon.

-Mastery rank(level up different weapons/frames)

-Test with a 24hour wait time if you fail.

-Resource gathering.(and timed resource gathering for clan weapons).

 

 

3. The challenge has nothing to really do with your gameplay beforehand, which is usually the reason for the mass amount of failed-test that happen. (more on #4)

 

 

4. This is what the OP is talking about: For unskilled players(and players in general), these challenges represent a meaningless hindrance to their gameplay. Warframe as a whole, is not an exceedingly difficult game, even if you are an unskilled player, most of warframe is easy enough to pick up once you get the hang of it. You really don't need to wall-run, or use stealth, or do any of the things that are in the challenges to play and enjoy the game, even at the higher levels, none of this stuff comes into play. 

-I've never  had to wall-run while shooting, jump to another wall while shooting(again), and then wall-run up. Never. In my entire 200+ hours not once has this ever happened nor has there ever been a need for it.

 

 

5. Most of the mastery test are bugged in some way. This in itself only adds to the frustration.

-Heck, i just failed my 8-9 test because on loading it, the game just got stuck on a black screen and crashed.

-I recently did the 7-8 test, the wall-run-up platform straight up vanished.

 

6. Little to no explanation of the test inside the game.

-This is another problem, especially highlighted for the unskilled players. There is little to no direction of the mechanics of the test.  Just a big "here you go!" kind of entry. Not only that, certain frames or certain weapons are ill-suited for each individual mastery test with NO EXPLANATION of such beforehand.

----------

 

7. This is the separate point, the mastery test never give you anything. This kind of makes them....pointless by design. Mastery rank unlocks new content, affinity levels, credits and resources used for crafting/modding, master test....just seem to be there to hinder the player's experience.  They don't even give a reward, which they should to help out new players. A simple amount of credits(50-100k) or even a mod that is vital to the core builds like the multishot or redirect.

 

8. Optional, not mandatory. The test themselves being so irrelevant to the mastery process and the game in general should serve as an extra service, not a mandatory-to-level-up one.

 

 

I guess since no one actually responded to the points I brought up i'll just use this again.....

 

 

Something I'd like to add,

 

The problem isn't that there is a challenge in the game or that unskilled players can't beat it, so much as where that challenge is.

 

 

The people saying "it's not that hard" don't really realize the problems with saying that, doesn't  prove the OP wrong.

 

Example:

If I made a test that was super easy each time you forma'd a frame, leveled a weapon to 30, or obtained an item,  it would still more or less be a hassle and unwanted. Mastery rank is almost the exact same scenario, yet people don't see that the mastery test is, which makes this whole conversation seem like some people are being "willfully ignorant" of the problems and just dismissing it as a "n00b" problem.

 

Now the real shocker is that some of the test, are hard, at least compared to what the difficulty of your average warframe level. I've failed quite a few rounds due to "lack of skill" or the test just straight breaking on me. I ended up using an "exploit"(a specific frame or weapon that makes the test trivial), just to pass the thing.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Empiren

[Xylia]

Now the real shocker is that some of the test, are hard, at least compared to what the difficulty of your average warframe level. I've failed quite a few rounds due to "lack of skill" or the test just straight breaking on me. I ended up using an "exploit"(a specific frame or weapon that makes the test trivial), just to pass the thing.

 

I did address this, several times.

 

1). Glitches happen in a Beta. Report it, it will get fixed. Several issues with the tests have already been fixed (the one you mentioned earlier in the thread being one of them).

 

2). The tests are meant to be harder than your average Warframe level. What's the point in having a test that's just as easy as the stuff you've been doing already?

 

3). Passing the harder tests is supposed to show that you have Mastery over that gameplay element. If you can pass the hacking test, you can call yourself a hacking master (assuming you don't cheese it with ciphers. I didn't.). If you pass the Parkour Test the right way, you can call yourself a master at parkour; you've proven you are skilled at doing multiple wall-runs.

 

4). Practicing for said test makes you better/more skilled at the game. When you see a Rank10+ player, you know that they are probably good at Parkour, Hacking, Shooting, Aiming, staying alive, they probably have some experience in stealth, etc. They have to -- they had to pass the tests somehow! If we had no tests, than any random newbie could idle at Xini/Cyath and get Rank10+ even if they were barely skilled enough to follow the pack through the level.

 

Now, don't take any of this to mean the tests are perfect: They aren't.

 

1). They need to tell you what the test is ahead of time.

2). They need to allow you to make practice runs.

3). They need to shorten the "failure timeout".

 

Etc etc.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Xylia

[Empiren]

I did address this, several times.

 

1). Glitches happen in a Beta. Report it, it will get fixed. Several issues with the tests have already been fixed (the one you mentioned earlier in the thread being one of them).

 

2). The tests are meant to be harder than your average Warframe level. What's the point in having a test that's just as easy as the stuff you've been doing already?

 

3). Passing the harder tests is supposed to show that you have Mastery over that gameplay element. If you can pass the hacking test, you can call yourself a hacking master (assuming you don't cheese it with ciphers. I didn't.). If you pass the Parkour Test the right way, you can call yourself a master at parkour; you've proven you are skilled at doing multiple wall-runs.

 

4). Practicing for said test makes you better/more skilled at the game. When you see a Rank10+ player, you know that they are probably good at Parkour, Hacking, Shooting, Aiming, staying alive, they probably have some experience in stealth, etc. They have to -- they had to pass the tests somehow! If we had no tests, than any random newbie could idle at Xini/Cyath and get Rank10+ even if they were barely skilled enough to follow the pack through the level.

 

Now, don't take any of this to mean the tests are perfect: They aren't.

 

1). They need to tell you what the test is ahead of time.

2). They need to allow you to make practice runs.

3). They need to shorten the "failure timeout".

 

Etc etc.

 

No you didn't, even in this post ^right here^ you've still only responded to my addition and not even half it.

 

1. Yeah saying "it's a beta" isn't the all-encompassing  excuse for everything wrong with the game, especially not in the feedback section.

-Actually, they haven't, I did both of those rather recently and I can tell you from firsthand experience, still broken.

 

2. Again, it's not that the test are harder than average, it's that WHERE THEY ARE and WHAT THEY ARE. Harder than average isn't the same as using the mechanics in a completely different way without an explanation. That and mastery rank is just grinding essentially, it has no need to be "tested" any more than forma'ing your weapon or w/e.

 

3.Pfft, oh god, you have a superiority complex now?! This is great! You actually think that passing the mastery test shows skill, or that players with higher rank are somehow "more skilled"!? Oh man, would it burst your bubble to tell you that you can find an exploit in most every test and that for the most part the higher ranked test weren't added until later and were really easy?

-Or you know, having mastery rank being just...leveling up frames/weapons and showing nothing of skill in the first place? Heck, I didn't go to till 8 because until 2.0 I had no reason to pick up the embolist.

 

4. Oh man, still with the superiority complex.

a)Ok, first off you can't practice. There is no area to do such for the majority of the test.

b) or they could just use the numerous exploits......which they probably did since most of them were broken or just plain easy before the update.

c) You do know that is the "player's right".....right? It's mastery rank actually means anything past 8, nor would it be a crime for an "unskilled" player to have a higher mastery rank than a skilled player because the entire system is just their to "reward" grinding/obtaining weapons.(which is really just a marketing ploy for platinum but w/e).

 

 

1. yup

2. Yup

3. Yup

If you had to keep the old system in, there are still a lot of things to change with it to make it better for the majority of players out there.

Uh, what?

 

The Mastery Rank IS the reward for completing the test.

 

I don't understand where you got it in your head that you deserve the Rank without passing the test, to be honest.

 

Warframe is a game about Tenno -- Masters of Gun and Blade, and many martial arts/samurai/ninjitsu references are found in game.

 

Nearly every Martial Arts Style/School features a Belt system -- you train for awhile, then you take a test on what you learned. You have to prove that you MASTERED what they taught you thusfar. The test will be harder than the lessons before it. Pass the Test and you earn a new Belt!

 

Well, in Warframe, Mastery Ranks are the Belts. And you only get the Belts when you pass the test for them. The Lotus allows you to buy/use more powerful equipment when you show her that you are worthy to bear such equipment in battle. Just like in Martial Arts Schools, they don't teach you certain stuff until you prove you are skilled enough to learn it.

Nearly all of what you said in your "responded to several times" post didn't have any direct relation to my post. I even numbered the original post and you responded to just 1 out of 8., even then, your explanation of the "belt system" and the mastery rank being the reward don't address any of the points I had brought up.

 

I mean you basically told me what the mastery system was, which is redundant.

[Xylia]

I swear, talking to you two is like banging my head against a wall. In fact, sometimes I think banging my head off the desk might be more productive.

 

But what the heck, why not, since I've nothing else better to do than to try to get you to understand....

 

1. Yeah saying "it's a beta" isn't the all-encompassing  excuse for everything wrong with the game, especially not in the feedback section.

-Actually, they haven't, I did both of those rather recently and I can tell you from firsthand experience, still broken.

 

It is a Beta and things do get broken in a Beta, which is to be expected (since, you know, it was included in the Terms of Service which you clicked the "I AGREE" button when they told you it is a Beta, in which things could be broken, right?

 

And I don't know what is causing you to magically fail the test when it worked just fine for me when I did it. *shrugs* Are you sure you were doing it right? Kinda odd I've seen several youtube videos of where it worked just perfectly.

 

2. Again, it's not that the test are harder than average, it's that WHERE THEY ARE and WHAT THEY ARE. Harder than average isn't the same as using the mechanics in a completely different way without an explanation. That and mastery rank is just grinding essentially, it has no need to be "tested" any more than forma'ing your weapon or w/e.

 

"Mechanics in a completely different way"? You've never tried to shoot at something while wall-running? I've done that, lots of times. Especially in that one grineer asteroid room. What about the Pistol Test? Or the Hacking Test? Are you saying they are "completely different" than normal gameplay, too? You have to look at the tests abstractly -- yes, nowhere in the game do you stand on disappearing platforms. The disappearing platforms are meant to cause situational awareness around you rather than tunnel vision on the long-range targets you're supposed to be sniping from afar. You're supposed to snipe the targets AND be aware of that platform underneath your feet, much like you're supposed to pay attention so you don't get hooked by a scorpion or smashed by a shield lancer's shield while sniping a target in a grineer mission.

 

3.Pfft, oh god, you have a superiority complex now?! This is great! You actually think that passing the mastery test shows skill, or that players with higher rank are somehow "more skilled"!? Oh man, would it burst your bubble to tell you that you can find an exploit in most every test and that for the most part the higher ranked test weren't added until later and were really easy?

 

Again, Beta. Things change in a Beta. Yes, some players were able to cheese it. Now they said they want to make leaderboards, and dojo rooms to retake the tests, etc. I'm sure there'd be a way to prove your skill by taking a screenshot of your personal score on these tests eventually. Wait for it. It'll be awesome.

 

And exploits....yeah, they're fixing those. You can no longer use abilities like Switch Teleport in some of the tests according to some more recent patch notes.

-Or you know, having mastery rank being just...leveling up frames/weapons and showing nothing of skill in the first place? Heck, I didn't go to till 8 because until 2.0 I had no reason to pick up the embolist.

 

Maybe because they wanted you to have some sort of skill check for the better gear?

 

Maybe becuase they wanted to model it after how belts work in IRL Martial Arts schools (seeing that warframe is a game about space ninja?)

 

4. Oh man, still with the superiority complex.

a)Ok, first off you can't practice. There is no area to do such for the majority of the test.

 

You can practice long-range sniping and staying alert anywhere. You can practice multiple wall runs anywhere, especially that one room in the Asteroid Base. Or the Clan Dojo.

 

b) or they could just use the numerous exploits......which they probably did since most of them were broken or just plain easy before the update.

 

Which are routinely getting fixed as they are able to. Some players did it during this time period, sure. But what happens when leaderboards come out?

 

c) You do know that is the "player's right".....right? It's mastery rank actually means anything past 8, nor would it be a crime for an "unskilled" player to have a higher mastery rank than a skilled player because the entire system is just their to "reward" grinding/obtaining weapons.(which is really just a marketing ploy for platinum but w/e).

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here to be honest. You're trying to tie the mastery ranks to Platinum? lol?

[Ashnal]

I have already posted that going subjective was a mistake, had it been kept objective it would have all been about the "technically correct" in your PS.

My bad for opening the door for everyone to indulge in biased subjective views.

 

Sorry, but your logic is ridiculous, and why does everyone seem to assume I don't like challenges ? . . I spend an inordinate amount of time playing this "Challenging" game so how the hell can anyone assume I don't like challenges . .it just doesn't make any sense.

 

I've been computer gaming for over 30 years so I have a little idea as to what this malarkey is about, and what the mastery test is about doesn't represent the level of my skill.

What beggars belief is all this assumption that I'm an unskilled gamer . . .no-one here knows anything about the myriad games I have shown exemplary skill in . .but that has diddly squat to do with the theme of my thread.

It is interesting to note that the only guy who has demonstrated that he knows what I'm talking about gets blanked because no-one knows what he's talking about. How could they ? if that was to happen then my posts would also be understood.

 

It is also interesting that you should choose Mario Kart, I would have picked COD and Battlefield games, but then, I suppose it's only fair to pick a game which supports the point you want to make, even if it has nothing to do with addressing the point I was trying to make . . .

 

Quote:

"At any rate, I believe skill barriers are at the very core of gaming, so asking them to be taken out is pretty much openly admitting that you hate being challenged, and that you dislike the typical cycle of improving your skills and progressing farther" . . . did you really write that ?

 

I'm not looking for a forum war but this comment and similar ones in other posts leave my flabber ghasted, how can i say any more ? . . I'm in the wrong place . .

Heh, my age is showing. I wasn't actually referring to Mario Kart, but rather the very first Mario game that existed on the NES. And I chose that example for it's simplicity, since Mario is a much simpler game than CoD or Battlefield, neither of which I play anyways.

 

What my post boiled down to was you don't have the specific skill required for that test. I didn't, say you were unskilled at games in general. For instance it is very possible to be awesome at puzzle games but absolutely terrible at a racing game. The fact that you cannot pass the test directly means that you do not possess the set of skills it is looking for. Which means you either need to figure it out deal with it, or go elsewhere. I mean you can't say you necessarily deserve the rank if you can't pass the test.

 

I think part of the main issue is that the main game doesn't require the same level of individual skill as the mastery tests do. Many of the constraints given in the tests never show up in normal gameplay unless you create the restrictions yourself. Then there's also the fact that it is easy to be carried by teammates. Perhaps the solution, instead of making the tests a lot easier, would be to introduce similar challenges into the levels so players like you are more familiar with them before you get to the test that you can only practice once a day. Introduce challenges like the target following one, or more parkour challenges like the derelict one that offer loot and prepare players for the tougher tests.

[Xylia]

I think part of the main issue is that the main game doesn't require the same level of individual skill as the mastery tests do. Many of the constraints given in the tests never show up in normal gameplay unless you create the restrictions yourself. Then there's also the fact that it is easy to be carried by teammates. Perhaps the solution, instead of making the tests a lot easier, would be to introduce similar challenges into the levels so players like you are more familiar with them before you get to the test that you can only practice once a day. Introduce challenges like the target following one, or more parkour challenges like the derelict one that offer loot and prepare players for the tougher tests.

 

They tried that with the Grineer Galleon Parkour Rooms.

 

HEAVY whining ensued which forced them to make the rooms as they are today -- no parkour necessary.