Levelling Up Tests Amount To Cyber Discrimination.

[fatpig84]

They tried that with the Grineer Galleon Parkour Rooms.

 

HEAVY whining ensued which forced them to make the rooms as they are today -- no parkour necessary.

 

Yes the moment they made the Grineer rooms work safe, my heart sank.

[Volthorne]

We're not trying to call you a liar or anything, but we have a hard time imagining how a gamer of any decent skill that you claim to be could have trouble with the Rank6->7 test.

 

I just don't understand it.

 

You've presented yourself as a half-way decent Warframe player, even had someone come in here and back you up on that. You then claim you've 30 years of gaming experience (which means you've been playing since Atari/C64 days), but yet you can't pass the MR6->7 test?

 

Wha...?

 

I don't understand.

 

That's like, I don't know....a Dark Souls master (the guy who's done NG7 on SL1) who can't beat the first boss in Darksiders. You just look at that and go "whaaaat?"

 

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to accuse you of lying about yourself, nor am I contesting what skill you have (or don't have). But I am legitimately shaking my head wondering how you're having trouble with this when you say you've done much harder things in your gaming "career".

I think a better way of phrasing for the OP's view is "I have to do this random-&#! S#&$ that has nothing to do with how I play the game, nor am I even remotely interested in jumping through ANOTHER hoop. It also walls off content. Therefore, I don't even bother trying to jump through said hoop when it is shoved at me because F*** it.".

Edited December 4, 2013 by Volthorne

[Xylia]

I think a better way of phrasing for the OP's view is "I have to do this random-&#! S#&$ that has nothing to do with how I play the game, nor am I even remotely interested in jumping through ANOTHER hoop. It also walls off content. Therefore, I don't even bother trying to jump through said hoop when it is shoved at me because F*** it.".

 

Perhaps so, but I still can't help but to think that is a bit of an extreme response to something so quick and simple. Especially when it is the 6->7 test (7 being the highest rank needed to use everything in the game).

 

Ah well. I think I already said my piece on why the tests really aren't that bad, at least the single digit tests. 9+ starts getting a little ridiculous on some of them, but hopefully they continue to tweak them to be more reasonable. I'm not even sure I wanna see what 29->30 is going to be.

 

(I think the highest rank is 30? It isn't even in the game yet, but they have achievements for it in Steam).

Edited December 4, 2013 by Xylia

[fatpig84]

(I think the highest rank is 30? It isn't even in the game yet, but they have achievements for it in Steam).

 

1) You need to perform a stealth hacking game in a room full of grineer heavies.

 

2) Complete with terminals on platforms that disappear in 10 seconds, the moment you step on them and the terminals are a good 20 meters wide from each other.

 

3) On top of that, there is a overall count down timer. Each hack or stealth kill adds a few more precious seconds. But note the platforms can disappear if you are still doing a stealth kill !

 

4) And you spawn without your guns and only melee weapons.

 

5) Not only that, you hafta wall run as well.

 

 

The game only finishes after all 5 terminals are hacked.

Good luck, your 1 minute starts NOW.

Edited December 4, 2013 by fatpig84

[Ganpot]

Ok since your response is generally what everyone else is saying more or less.

 

1. No. Games at their core are for enjoyment. Now you can "challenge" the player to increase that enjoyment, but that does not work for all the players. Case and point, Dark Souls, was a "tough" game. Some people enjoyed it because of that, some people hated it. "Challenging the player" should be done in the correct scenario, a boss battle, or a high level enemy perhaps or difficult ai. Challenging him upon leveling up is rather pointless(more in #2).

 

2. The thing is, mastery test just lock content behind them.After grinding to the next mastery rank you are met with a challenge. It is pretty clear that the developers want to drag out the game at this point due to the "system" in place to obtain a weapon.

-Mastery rank(level up different weapons/frames)

-Test with a 24hour wait time if you fail.

-Resource gathering.(and timed resource gathering for clan weapons).

 

 

3. The challenge has nothing to really do with your gameplay beforehand, which is usually the reason for the mass amount of failed-test that happen. (more on #4)

 

 

4. This is what the OP is talking about: For unskilled players(and players in general), these challenges represent a meaningless hindrance to their gameplay. Warframe as a whole, is not an exceedingly difficult game, even if you are an unskilled player, most of warframe is easy enough to pick up once you get the hang of it. You really don't need to wall-run, or use stealth, or do any of the things that are in the challenges to play and enjoy the game, even at the higher levels, none of this stuff comes into play. 

-I've never  had to wall-run while shooting, jump to another wall while shooting(again), and then wall-run up. Never. In my entire 200+ hours not once has this ever happened nor has there ever been a need for it.

 

 

5. Most of the mastery test are bugged in some way. This in itself only adds to the frustration.

-Heck, i just failed my 8-9 test because on loading it, the game just got stuck on a black screen and crashed.

-I recently did the 7-8 test, the wall-run-up platform straight up vanished.

 

6. Little to no explanation of the test inside the game.

-This is another problem, especially highlighted for the unskilled players. There is little to no direction of the mechanics of the test.  Just a big "here you go!" kind of entry. Not only that, certain frames or certain weapons are ill-suited for each individual mastery test with NO EXPLANATION of such beforehand.

----------

 

7. This is the separate point, the mastery test never give you anything. This kind of makes them....pointless by design. Mastery rank unlocks new content, affinity levels, credits and resources used for crafting/modding, master test....just seem to be there to hinder the player's experience.  They don't even give a reward, which they should to help out new players. A simple amount of credits(50-100k) or even a mod that is vital to the core builds like the multishot or redirect.

 

8. Optional, not mandatory. The test themselves being so irrelevant to the mastery process and the game in general should serve as an extra service, not a mandatory-to-level-up one.

 

1. Games have always been about challenge, even in their first incarnations.  For any person to win at Pong, someone else has to lose.  The ability to lose is fundamentally what makes something a game.  Sports are the same way: they are a competition, to see who is better at something.  It doesn't matter if you are competing against other people or a computer; you're always competing against something. 

 

2. So what?  That has nothing to do with the OP's argument, and all MMOs (and the vast majority of games in general) make use of time-sinks. 

 

3 & 4. Advanced platforming is never required to complete maps.  However, it is required in order to complete parkour tests in the Void and Derelict, and to reach hidden areas with loot in every tile-set.  What you don't seem to realize is that Warframe is already going easy on players.  The game could very easily have made complicated platforming mandatory in all aspects of the game.  Instead, the game gives players small incentives to explore and challenge themselves, until it eventually tests them formally. 

 

5. I've only encountered 2 bugged tests, and one of those was bugged in players' favor.  I'm not saying bugs don't exist, but from what I can tell they are fixed fairly quickly by DE staff. 

 

6. This is a legitimate problem, and something that DE has claimed they will try to fix.  However, after taking the test 1 or 2 times (or looking up a youtube video), you should have the knowledge required to pass it.  It's not an insurmountable barrier. 

 

7. Mastery rank tests do give a reward: access to the next mastery level.  That's all they're designed to do, and all they need to do. 

 

8. The entire point of an advancement test is for it to be mandatory.  That would be like not mandating tests for people who are attempting to become doctors.  Would you trust some random person to cut you open if you couldn't be sure that his/her training was actually thorough?  I think not.  Mastery Ranks are (lore-wise) what determine the Tenno hierarchy.  It's a pure meritocracy; the most skilled Tenno become the leaders. 

[WarGrylls]

...

 

Studies show that most games require quick processing of visual information among other things. A person's inability to achieve what is required of a game in order to perform a certain task will result in failure, pretty much every time. This is why there is some desire for Fighter Pilots to have a background in gaming, or are perhaps skilled with games.

 

...

Wai--WHOA... googles around a bit... *mind blown* well okay. This adult has just been school'd, and will consider up'n the daily morning jog times to a bit more. I want to be 20s inside, not 60s.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/7808860/Computer-gamers-have-reactions-of-pilots-but-bodies-of-chain-smokers.html

 

 

+1

[Cortanis]

Admittedly, I hate the tests as well as the lack of warning as to what they are going to be before hand so you can come prepared. I'm not particularly good at wall running and such, but their are ways to cheese even that into a way to pass them. Also a tip for the stealth one.... it's not melee required. I did melee up until I noticed that they allowed acess to powers on it. If you have a proper build on Rhino, you can stomp each room with a single stomp to clear it. If you try that, I suggest melee the first room and possibly the second room with a stomp on the third. It makes it much less of a headache.

 

Also keep in mind that these tests are kind of designed for a particular weapon or another. I went into the three wave survival one thinking it was the wall running one and all I had on were wall run mods on a basically naked Nova. I still managed to pass that with a combo of Sobek and Acrid.

[Liminal]

They tried that with the Grineer Galleon Parkour Rooms.

 

HEAVY whining ensued which forced them to make the rooms as they are today -- no parkour necessary.

I remember those rooms. They were so awesome :(

[Derpo]

8. The entire point of an advancement test is for it to be mandatory.  That would be like not mandating tests for people who are attempting to become doctors.  Would you trust some random person to cut you open if you couldn't be sure that his/her training was actually thorough?  I think not.  Mastery Ranks are (lore-wise) what determine the Tenno hierarchy.  It's a pure meritocracy; the most skilled Tenno become the leaders. 

I would trust YOU to hack me open, so long as you could use hyperbole to do it. Relax, dude. It's a game.

[CaptainEras]

 

 

No, no they don't. They are literal content stop gaps and yet another LOTU$ APPROVED TIME$INK. They don't improve the actual ability usage in WF, they don't teach spatial awareness or ttk, they don't improve enemy resistance awareness or how to avoid damage traps, they don't teach targeting context or how to dismantle an enemy squad in the most beneficial order, they don't teach anything. Thank to leaky memory usage and input lag, half of them only teach you how bad WF is currently optimized even after cutting frametime loads in half for the PS4.

 

There is no skill involved in passing an arbitrary rote sequence. All the mastery test teach you to be, ironically enough, is how to be an annoying self-centric rusher in warframe, something the devs supposedly frown on.

 

They are the literal definition of pointless time sink.

This is why I resent doing them, not laziness - which is yet another stupid and illogical remark from that poster. How can one be called lazy when you look at what I have achieved in less than 2 months and how can you compare any talent in a stupid little "grind out" with survivng Tower 3 Survival missions ? or any other high level mission ? - but the continuing theme here is that the dog has picked up the wrong bone and is too stupid to realize it.

[CaptainEras]

I will admit I don't like how most tests involve a time limit, but well. If they can think of something better, hey awesome.

 

I don't like the 24hr penalty and the blindness going into the test, sure.

 

I think the tests themselves are a good enough idea in of itself (again, it is kinda like Belts in Martial Arts, which Warframe is loosely based upon). Sure, they could use tweaks (the game is a beta afterall), but the tests themselves as an idea are fine.

 

Some of the tests could use a tweak though.

 

But to outright call it "discrimination" and post a whine thread, while admitting he's too lazy to put forth proper effort to pass the test?

 

Yeah...that's... over the top. No offense, OP.

Complete stupidity and typical of the dirty $&*^ story.

 

The concept of my mind resisting something it finds crass and out of place soon becomes "laziness", the typical path of an unintelligent mind as it fails to understand or find any other path of understanding.

 

One minute you say one thing, a poster who can actually get through to you says something else, and guess what, you adjust your previous comment accordingly.

My posts remain throughout on the same path, I know what I think and it isn't in the realms of "airy fairy" land, nor getting changed on every whim like a mind which is never sure in which direction it is best pointed . . .I'm also very suspicious when a poster chooses to use the word "we", that has connotations all on its own.

 

Oh . .to address an earlier comment about Mario Kart and something I would have known had I been gaming for 30 years - implying that I was lying, a word you seem to be quite fond of - egg on your face, chum, for yet again being a smartass, I have been gaming since the the ping pong game first appeared in the pubs in this country (England), which would be the early 70's . . so any mistake of mine was saying 30 years and not 40 years.

Then along came Clive Sinclair to get us all playing with BASIC and driving us mad when a piece of the hangman was missing so had to spend hours going back through all the code.

 

BTW . . if any credentials for credibility are required before you believe anyone, meaning me, I'm an Admin/Mod (Co-creator) of the Assiemodis Gaming Site. We have dissected all parts of Warframe and have a very keen and advanced crew who have achieved an unbelievable amount in a very, very short time.

Come on over, have a chat on our TS, we aren't a clan and the 4 admins pick up all costs so anyone can join and it will cost them nothing.

[CaptainEras]

There really isn't a point to the test outside of time-sinking is there?

 

As much as people want to delude themselves into thinking it has meaning, it really doesn't.

Had that sign flashing all the time " DELUSION" . . but isn't that the way, too many people believeing their own thoughts, even when most of them are imagined or/and invented.

 

I am amazed - even though I shouldn't be - at the amount of people failing to see such a simple point on discrimination, instead going down the usual forum path when something isn't understood.

[CaptainEras]

Forum Camper?

 

Seriously?

 

*rolls eyes* Whatever.

 

Oh, and it was you who said this, wasn't it?

 

 

 

 

That's a quoted block from your Original Post.

 

"my brain refuses to accept making any effort".

 

Whatever that means, lol.

 

You stated in your OP that you failed that test 4 times and you implied that you still haven't passed it yet, and continued to carry the thread on as though you haven't.

 

So which is it? You still can't pass it, or you did pass it but you're still complaining about something that's no longer an issue?

 

 

 

 

I'll take that as a compliment. I don't beat around the bush, to be honest. I like to tell it like it is. Sometimes people get offended over the stupidest/tiniest things.

Thanks, again, you really don't understand, do you ?

 

Like I said, I never said I couldn't pass it, and you have shown nothing which says I did . . but, thanks, you have shown that I didn't lie.

 

As for the main theme of my thread, "Discrimination", I now accept the concept is beyond your limited understanding so best left at that.

 

Oh . .about your bluntness, we have people here who say the same . . . generally viewed by those who know better as "ignorance", which is very fitting as you are completely ignorant of the meaning of the point I tried to make, which a small handful do understand.

Edited December 4, 2013 by CaptainEras

[CaptainEras]

I think a better way of phrasing for the OP's view is "I have to do this random-&#! S#&$ that has nothing to do with how I play the game, nor am I even remotely interested in jumping through ANOTHER hoop. It also walls off content. Therefore, I don't even bother trying to jump through said hoop when it is shoved at me because F*** it.".

Hahahaha . . .spot on. I give 200% to the main game, love every bit of it . . . but this kind of stupid test is so outdated even the cobwebs have turned to stone.

[Xylia]

1). I have never, ever, ever in this entire thread called you "stupid" or any such thing, yet you have called me that MANY times in this thread. Could we leave the childish insults at the door, please?

 

2)...

 

As for the main theme of my thread, "Discrimination", I now accept the concept is beyond your limited understanding so best left at that.

 

discrimination [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]

noun

1. an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.

2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.

4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.

 

Look at  definition #2:

 

2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

 

Since every player has the same chance (everybody has access to the same equipment at the same MR level), These tests are not, and cannot, be called "DISCRIMINATION" as defined here.

 

Or are you saying www.dictionary.com doesn't understand, either?

[Xylia]

And yet again the forum system fails at quoting, even though I triple-checked I had quoting tags done correctly.

[CaptainEras]

I did address this, several times.

 

1). Glitches happen in a Beta. Report it, it will get fixed. Several issues with the tests have already been fixed (the one you mentioned earlier in the thread being one of them).

 

2). The tests are meant to be harder than your average Warframe level. What's the point in having a test that's just as easy as the stuff you've been doing already?

 

3). Passing the harder tests is supposed to show that you have Mastery over that gameplay element. If you can pass the hacking test, you can call yourself a hacking master (assuming you don't cheese it with ciphers. I didn't.). If you pass the Parkour Test the right way, you can call yourself a master at parkour; you've proven you are skilled at doing multiple wall-runs.

 

4). Practicing for said test makes you better/more skilled at the game. When you see a Rank10+ player, you know that they are probably good at Parkour, Hacking, Shooting, Aiming, staying alive, they probably have some experience in stealth, etc. They have to -- they had to pass the tests somehow! If we had no tests, than any random newbie could idle at Xini/Cyath and get Rank10+ even if they were barely skilled enough to follow the pack through the level.

 

Now, don't take any of this to mean the tests are perfect: They aren't.

 

1). They need to tell you what the test is ahead of time.

2). They need to allow you to make practice runs.

3). They need to shorten the "failure timeout".

 

Etc etc.

Don't you see ? you have referred to the point of my thread without realizing it, but the refusal to get off of the point of deciding the thread was all about me and my test experiences and not understanding my point on discrimination has continually blinded you.

 

The guy you mention who might appear to be at level 10 competence could be rubbish at the game in comparison to someone who has been selected thanks to the tests system, but that is where the discrimination exists.

I have been in many squads where the talents of others leaves a lot to be desired, so what, this is cyber gaming, we come together to game together . . .8 years in the armed forces taught me a squad is only as strong as its weakest link, so you look out for everyone and bring everyone home . .it's gaming for god's sake, not open warfare.

 

You have acknowledged the type of guy I refer to in the theme of discrimination, all that is left is to understand where the discrimination is.

[[DE]Megan]

This thread has derailed into insults and baiting.

 

Discussing Mastery Rank importance has been a hot topic for the devs.