Remove/nerf That Stupid Damage Dropoff For Shotguns.

[-RG-Jezus]

I didnt know the fun i can have with a gun is another players disadvantage, if he only plays with his friends anyway.

So by that logic. Some people dont like it, if other players have fun?

And before anyone says something.

You playing solo or clanwise (if they are all sharing your opinion) = you never gonna see Brakk.

So why the hate against it in the first place?

Simply just because you begrudge other peoples fun.

Nothing less.

Shall i run arround and screaming for nerfs for those weapons you like? You like the Synapse? Nerf it (i dont use it), you like the Soma? Nerf it (im using it myself, but i dont like it), you like Despair? (Nerf it, because i dont like them).

Even if they really would be "OP" like you tend to say, i wouldnt ask for a god damn nerf, i would ask DE if they would kindly buff other weapons, so you can finally choose a weapon, as you trying to say.

You wont make the old Skana godlike, just because you take Galantine and put it into the nerf-blender.

Still pigheaded about that drop off?

Well fine then buff shotguns at least so you can exterminate a whole galaxy in that range. Right now you just can take down one planet at once. (I make these ridiculous measures, just because you think Brakk can do this, in case you dont quite catch that)

I wanted the Brakk nerfed so i could use it without feeling bad actually. Not to begrudge other people the ability to one or two shot pretty much everything.

Synapse - Nerfed with U11

Soma - Nerfed with U11

Despair - Nerfed with U11

Buffing weapons will never work if they are already too powerful in DE's opinion. They changed the damage system, and it is obvious that weapons will need to be rebalanced. Some were buffed, some were nerfed.

They are reworking the entire melee system atm btw, which will probably end up in a change to galantine and another of these threads *@##$ing and moaning about how DE ruined their own game by trying to bring balance and to encourage people to use other weapons.

Basically, a whole load of weapons got effectively nerfed by U11. The Brakk actually recieved a HUGE buff when U11 was released and DE decided they should do something about it.

There are barely any threads complaining about the other nerfs, it just seems that Brakk users are too petty to even contemplate using another secondary before they have spent a week crying about it.

And yes, the Brakk is still extremely powerful in the 5-15 meter range, more powerful than most primaries infact if modded correctly.

Edited December 8, 2013 by supersaupe

[Ahcruna]

Wah? those others you mentioned are pretty sick in the game.

 

 

Soma still holds up at T3 Survival at 50min's

Edited December 8, 2013 by Ahcruna

[ArmyOfFun]

Synapse is still crazy good with a corrosive build too. 

[-RG-Jezus]

Wah? those others you mentioned are pretty sick in the game.

 

 

Soma still holds up at T3 Survival at 50min's

But it still recieved a nerf, got over nerfed, and had its crit raised again. And is only useful against specific factions at high level.

 

 

Synapse is still crazy good with a corrosive build too. 

Although it still received a nerf, the base electric damage on it pulls it through though. 

 

 

Id also point out that the Brakk can still be crazy good if people learnt to mod it. It will proc virtually every shot. No other weapon procs quite like it, and it still has a high base damage and crit chance.

[Derethevil]

I guess you should play past Uranus then, so you can actually see that the Brakk was a nice weapon, where other weapons already where more reliable damage wise.

 

Yes the Brakk had a nice damage for Jupiter or something like that. But as soon enemies getting 40 or more, your "OP" Brakk already had a huge flaw. 

So in the endgame you have to choose between a weapon which can devistate Grineer or can devistate Corpus.

The Brakk is just a weapon, which you can mod into every direction. (More or less now)

 

And dont get me towards that "sniping". Try that on Ceres/Pluto or higher. You need 10 magazines to finally take down a bigger target at level 40. 

Shall we start about that melee range topic?

 

Get to close towards 40+ enemies now and you get your butt whooped. You know it. I know it.

The Brakk was at least able to mow down a little group of enemies before you were able to charge in towards the heavy unit.

 

Oh wait. Thats what bugs you? Because a gun was able to fight the "endgame" enemies?

So there are no endgame weapons allowed, or what?

You still had to mod it right, so you can devistate a faction.

 

Before you start talking about it.

Yes it is able to do that even with that drop off. But only close in. But what will possibly happen at that range against endgame enemies?

Edited December 8, 2013 by Derethevil

[Ahcruna]

But it still recieved a nerf, got over nerfed, and had its crit raised again. And is only useful against specific factions at high level.

 

 

I only play at high level actually, I'm doing fine with all factions. The only mild thing is that you have to set up the weapon before going in to what ever thing you are headed out to.

 

Note by the side: We need more set up slots. A B C isn't really cutting it for me.

[Derethevil]

I only play at high level actually, I'm doing fine with all factions. The only mild thing is that you have to set up the weapon before going in to what ever thing you are headed out to.

 

Note by the side: We need more set up slots. A B C isn't really cutting it for me.

I support this. 

At least 2 more would be a nice addition.

[-RG-Jezus]

I guess you should play past Uranus then, so you can actually see that the Brakk was a nice weapon, where other weapons already where more reliable damage wise.

 

Yes the Brakk had a nice damage for Jupiter or something like that. But as soon enemies getting 40 or more, your "OP" Brakk already had a huge flaw. 

So in the endgame you have to choose between a weapon which can devistate Grineer or can devistate Corpus.

The Brakk is just a weapon, which you can mod into every direction. (More or less now)

 

And dont get me towards that "sniping". Try that on Ceres/Pluto or higher. You need 10 magazines to finally take down a bigger target at level 40. 

Shall we start about that melee range topic?

 

Get to close towards 40+ enemies now and you get your butt whooped. You know it. I know it.

The Brakk was at least able to mow down a little group of enemies before you were able to charge in towards the heavy unit.

 

Note that he is one shotting lvl 56 Grineer at the start of that survival with his Brakk before you comment on it not being useful above rank 40, and that was before he forma'd it. 

 

In end game you spec your weapon setup depending on if you are fighting corpus, grineer or infested. It should not be one weapon that obliterates everything.

 

 

Now this is before the nerf

 

 

Notice his Brakk one shotting lvl 61 infested? Sure, it takes 2 shots against a lvl 61 ancient, but hey, thats still 2 shots. Its still doing over 10K dmg a shot. Still has the highest dmg for a secondary in game, plus he has an empty slot missing a damage mod.

 

Also note that with one forma he says he can one shot well into the 100s with his Brakk.

 

 

Now remember that at 15 meters, there has been no reduction in Brakk damage. So at 15 meters range or less, the Brakk will still one shot into the 100. Plus its ridiculous status chance and crit means it is still actually OP in that tiny range. Which is acceptable only because of the range limitations.

[-RG-Jezus]

 

Note by the side: We need more set up slots. A B C isn't really cutting it for me.

 

I support this. 

At least 2 more would be a nice addition.

 

I also support this, although I would be happy with just one so I can put in a Void build, but 2 would be lovely

[Derethevil]

 

Note that he is one shotting lvl 56 Grineer at the start of that survival with his Brakk before you comment on it not being useful above rank 40, and that was before he forma'd it. 

 

In end game you spec your weapon setup depending on if you are fighting corpus, grineer or infested. It should not be one weapon that obliterates everything.

 

 

Now this is before the nerf

 

 

Notice his Brakk one shotting lvl 61 infested? Sure, it takes 2 shots against a lvl 61 ancient, but hey, thats still 2 shots. Its still doing over 10K dmg a shot. Still has the highest dmg for a secondary in game, plus he has an empty slot missing a damage mod.

 

Also note that with one forma he says he can one shot well into the 100s with his Brakk.

 

 

Now remember that at 15 meters, there has been no reduction in Brakk damage. So at 15 meters range or less, the Brakk will still one shot into the 100. Plus its ridiculous status chance and crit means it is still actually OP in that tiny range. Which is acceptable only because of the range limitations.

 

First video is before Armor 2.0. 

A 56 Grineer was like a 20-25 now.

 

Oneshooting 61 infested?

Yeah. If i blow a shotgun right into your face, it also would inflict major damage. (It is supposed to do that)

We talking about the range itself and by that means hitting multiple targets.

At the start of the second video you can see how he shoots like 3-5 shots before a 61 enemies gets killed.

Now imagine this at a much bigger distance. You need like 40 shots to take down those enemies.

Also the second video was before that "hotfix" nerfed Brakk.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Derethevil

[-RG-Jezus]

 

First video is before Armor 2.0. 

A 56 Grineer was like a 20-25 now.

 

Oneshooting 61 infested?

Yeah. If i blow a shotgun right into your face, it also would inflict major damage. (It is supposed to do that)

We talking about the range itself and by that means hitting multiple targets.

At the start of the second video you can see how he shoots like 3-5 shots before a 61 enemies gets killed.

Now imagine this at a much bigger distance. You need like 40 shots to take down those enemies.

The first video was meerly pointing out the ridiculousness of the Brakk.

 

Yes, that is the idea of a shotgun, how do people not understand this. 

 

Actually the first 3 kills in the video are 3 separate chargers, which he kills with one shot each, consecutively, and at rank 61 (8-13 seconds)

And yes, when you do not hit the pack of mobs dead on, it does less damage. Or when you say, spam fire it infront of you as he is doing in the part after.

That is a shotgun.

 

And yet it does still 2 shot the rank 61 ancient disruptor, does it not? That was what, almost level 200 before Damage 2.0?

 

This gun, obviously is not intended to take down targets at range, that is why DE have made it a short range weapon with their nerf. 

 

 

And yes, i did state that it was before the nerf. And then even pointed out that it still deals the exact same amount of damage in game if the target is less than 15 meters from you. Ergo, it still rapes but at a shorter range.

Edited December 8, 2013 by supersaupe

[Derethevil]

The first video was meerly pointing out the ridiculousness of the Brakk.

 

Yes, that is the idea of a shotgun, how do people not understand this. 

 

Actually the first 3 kills in the video are 3 separate chargers, which he kills with one shot each, consecutively, and at rank 61 (8-13 seconds)

And yes, when you do not hit the pack of mobs dead on, it does less damage. Or when you say, spam fire it infront of you as he is doing in the part after.

That is a shotgun.

 

And yet it does still 2 shot the rank 61 ancient disruptor, does it not? That was what, almost level 200 before Damage 2.0?

 

This gun, obviously is not intended to take down targets at range, that is why DE have made it a short range weapon with their nerf. 

 

 

And yes, i did state that it was before the nerf. And then even pointed out that it still deals the exact same amount of damage in game if the target is less than 15 meters from you. Ergo, it still rapes but at a shorter range.

So you think im talking about shooting a single enemy in the face, or do i talk about the spread that should hit multiple targets at once?

I've never said it wouldnt be able to kill a single heavy unit at point blank range.

No i even made a little comparsion, how you could have used the Brakk.

Using the spread of it to take down a group of light units and then go in towards that heavy unit to tear his face apart:

"The Brakk was at least able to mow down a little group of enemies before you were able to charge in towards the heavy unit."

 

As i asked. Is this what really bugged you?

I thought that sniping enemies would have bugged you, what already wasnt possible at a to high range, because you merely were able to hit that guy across the room. 

Yes you still were able to hit a few pellets. But would that have killed 61 enemies? I dont think so. Even within that range at the second video he needed a few shots to kill them. 

Edited December 8, 2013 by Derethevil

[-RG-Jezus]

So you think im talking about shooting a single enemy in the face, or do i talk about the spread that should hit multiple targets at once?

I've never said it wouldnt be able to kill a single heavy unit at point blank range.

No i even made a little comparsion, how you could have used the Brakk.

Using the spread of it to take down a group of light units and then go in towards that heavy unit to tear his face apart:

"The Brakk was at least able to mow down a little group of enemies before you were able to charge in towards the heavy unit."

 

As i asked. Is this what really bugged you?

I thought that sniping enemies would have bugged you, what already wasnt possible at a to high range, because you merely were able to hit that guy across the room. 

Yes you still were able to hit a few pellets. But would that have killed 61 enemies? I dont think so. Even within that range at the second video he needed a few shots to kill them. 

You can still use the Brakk to mow down a little group of enemies as you charge towards  the heavy unit and tear his face apart.

 

And no, the Brakk being the all purpose weapon that rated above all others is what annoyed me. And yes, when shooting into the groups he did still need a few shots to kill them, but as those lvl 61 infested chargers he one shots, and then even kills 2 in one shot between seconds 8 and 11 of the video show, it is still a ridiculously high dmg dealing weapon and still extremely effective at killing anything under 15 meters away. And if you do scale that back to prior to U11, that would have been lvl 150+ enemies that he kills in one shot. Which i personally find extraordinarily bad when compared to the half clip my soma would have taken.

[Derethevil]

So what bugs you now?

The range it had before that hotfix?

The damage it is able to dish out point blank range as a machine gun does?

Talking about DPS eh?

Well then lets take a look at it then, shall we?

 

There is a neat little benchmark in this forum.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89592-unofficial-weapon-benchmark/

• Boar prime .......0.01.001  By: LisRestall    (C-5) http://youtu.be/1U93eypNAYM   | http://i.imgur.com/4Ym0YYN.jpg
• Afuris................0:01.53    By: Ceepee       (C-4) http://youtu.be/kHq8fQT6YMc
• Sobek...............0.02.033  By: Definitegj     (C-4) 
• Soma................0.02.28    By: Rompido      (C-4)  http://youtu.be/z3puYLbmnns
• Boar..................0.02.567  By: Definitegj     (C-5)  http://youtu.be/YHaJD3HNMgg | http://i.imgur.com/jnzRqog.jpg?1
• Braton Prime.....0.02.90   By Chris9428     (C-6)  http://youtu.be/Xju8RpHzw6Q
• Cestra...............0:03.37   By: LisRestall     (C-5)  http://youtu.be/u-QI7ZwAPG4  | http://i.imgur.com/3BLAGzl.jpg
• Brakk.................0:03.40   By: Chris9428    (C-3) http://youtu.be/YL4CH0lMWKo

[Riccoshot]

^

I don't actually think these benchmarks should be considered as weapon demonstration.

Cause it's more like "equip all the damage mods, and see how fast Lech Krill dies, regarles of you will not be able to use this setup in game effectively"

 

Equip Boar Prime(top 1 in this list) without ammo mutator and see how all it's incrediblу DPS will ends in 30-35 seconds, when it will run out of ammo.

As well as not all the enemies in this game are Lech Krills, and not all of them killed from 1m distance.

[ObviousLee]

What incentive is there for a casual to bother with any other shotgun if they have a strun wraith? Why bother buying or making a bronco/bronco prime/dual broncos if they have the brakk?

 

This is why a certain amount of balance is needed.  The 'casuals' have LESS incentive to buy other weapons when a similar one so clearly outshines another.

you know, assumptions are the mother of all fuckups, and you seem to think everyone else's views should be as yours and see them the way you do/think they should. world don't work that way. take a trip to another country with a different way of life and try to impose your will on them. lemme know what happens.

 

you act as though "because its the best no one will have any reason to use it." i combat this statement with my own. "not everyone looks at a weapon as OP, AND people have their own preferences which will assist heavily in the decision of their weapon loadout."

 

just because you wouldn't use a weapon you consider to be op, does not mean EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO USE IT BECAUSE IT IS.

 

you folks need to stop projecting what you "know" the players are going to do. you aren't psychic. and not once have i seen a SINGLE chart documenting the average use of player weapons in a pie chart or a graph. just assumptions. you have not played with every single player in this game, you do not know how many actually have the brakk, and you do not know how many used it. these are all, assumptions and they are therefore invalid statements.

 

 

weapon feedback should be brought on by people who ACTUALLY POSSESS THE WEAPON instead of the callous jealousy of those who could not attain it, instead of those who will not, ever, EVER have to deal with whatever shortcomings are brought on by the outcries of "it breaks the game" which as not once has my game crashed, has the game been hacked, or any mass corruption occured due to me using the brakk. GAMEBREAKING is a fear mongering statement with the sole purpose of amassing supporters who would support any choice that would steer their favored passtime from a cliff.

Edited December 8, 2013 by ObviousLee

[PapaKicks]

 

Note that he is one shotting lvl 56 Grineer at the start of that survival with his Brakk before you comment on it not being useful above rank 40, and that was before he forma'd it. 

 

In end game you spec your weapon setup depending on if you are fighting corpus, grineer or infested. It should not be one weapon that obliterates everything.

 

 

Now this is before the nerf

 

 

Notice his Brakk one shotting lvl 61 infested? Sure, it takes 2 shots against a lvl 61 ancient, but hey, thats still 2 shots. Its still doing over 10K dmg a shot. Still has the highest dmg for a secondary in game, plus he has an empty slot missing a damage mod.

 

Also note that with one forma he says he can one shot well into the 100s with his Brakk.

 

 

Now remember that at 15 meters, there has been no reduction in Brakk damage. So at 15 meters range or less, the Brakk will still one shot into the 100. Plus its ridiculous status chance and crit means it is still actually OP in that tiny range. Which is acceptable only because of the range limitations.

 

That's just it. MOST people would rather see it's damage reduced than to see the ridiculously short drop-off. The drop-off is just not an enjoyable game mechanic.

[-RG-Jezus]

 

So what bugs you now?

The range it had before that hotfix?

The damage it is able to dish out point blank range as a machine gun does?

Talking about DPS eh?

Well then lets take a look at it then, shall we?

 

There is a neat little benchmark in this forum.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89592-unofficial-weapon-benchmark/

• Boar prime .......0.01.001  By: LisRestall    (C-5) http://youtu.be/1U93eypNAYM   | http://i.imgur.com/4Ym0YYN.jpg
• Afuris................0:01.53    By: Ceepee       (C-4) http://youtu.be/kHq8fQT6YMc
• Sobek...............0.02.033  By: Definitegj     (C-4) 
• Soma................0.02.28    By: Rompido      (C-4)  http://youtu.be/z3puYLbmnns
• Boar..................0.02.567  By: Definitegj     (C-5)  http://youtu.be/YHaJD3HNMgg | http://i.imgur.com/jnzRqog.jpg?1
• Braton Prime.....0.02.90   By Chris9428     (C-6)  http://youtu.be/Xju8RpHzw6Q
• Cestra...............0:03.37   By: LisRestall     (C-5)  http://youtu.be/u-QI7ZwAPG4  | http://i.imgur.com/3BLAGzl.jpg
• Brakk.................0:03.40   By: Chris9428    (C-3) http://youtu.be/YL4CH0lMWKo

 

What bugs me now is people crying because it got nerfed, and rightly nerfed aswell.

Yeah, lets run against one boss, and see what happens, because we all know that a boss is representative of every mob in game of every faction and doesn't have any special rules applied to it.

 

Its like when people were using the Jackal to show how op their Strun wraith was lol.

 

And yeah, he reloaded once so emptied 2 mags into Krill. That the reload took a whole third of the time it took him to kill him lol.

 

16 seconds with the Acrid :(

Edited December 9, 2013 by supersaupe

[-RG-Jezus]

you know, assumptions are the mother of all fuckups, and you seem to think everyone else's views should be as yours and see them the way you do/think they should. world don't work that way. take a trip to another country with a different way of life and try to impose your will on them. lemme know what happens.

 

you act as though "because its the best no one will have any reason to use it." i combat this statement with my own. "not everyone looks at a weapon as OP, AND people have their own preferences which will assist heavily in the decision of their weapon loadout."

 

just because you wouldn't use a weapon you consider to be op, does not mean EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO USE IT BECAUSE IT IS.

 

you folks need to stop projecting what you "know" the players are going to do. you aren't psychic. and not once have i seen a SINGLE chart documenting the average use of player weapons in a pie chart or a graph. just assumptions. you have not played with every single player in this game, you do not know how many actually have the brakk, and you do not know how many used it. these are all, assumptions and they are therefore invalid statements.

 

 

weapon feedback should be brought on by people who ACTUALLY POSSESS THE WEAPON instead of the callous jealousy of those who could not attain it, instead of those who will not, ever, EVER have to deal with whatever shortcomings are brought on by the outcries of "it breaks the game" which as not once has my game crashed, has the game been hacked, or any mass corruption occured due to me using the brakk. GAMEBREAKING is a fear mongering statement with the sole purpose of amassing supporters who would support any choice that would steer their favored passtime from a cliff.

About your chart showing weapon use. DE do have such a chart. They also stated on U11 release that they will be looking into the most used weapons and why they are the most used weapons.

 

Next update came along, and lo and behole - Brakk nerf

[Nagisawa]

About your chart showing weapon use. DE do have such a chart. They also stated on U11 release that they will be looking into the most used weapons and why they are the most used weapons.

 

Next update came along, and lo and behole - Brakk nerf

And how many people do you think was using the Brakk as their God weapon?  Not to mention how many spent the 100+ missions trying to get it, assuming they even picked the right side for it?  How many?  Do you know?  Because I'm pretty sure a lot of people were using the Brakk because it was fun.

 

So what you're saying is that fun needs to be nerfed?  Wow.

[ObviousLee]

About your chart showing weapon use. DE do have such a chart. They also stated on U11 release that they will be looking into the most used weapons and why they are the most used weapons.

 

Next update came along, and lo and behole - Brakk nerf

citation?

[GhostUnitVII]

when i did my 100 missions i said "This gun better be worth it" and it was, till it got nerfed because idiots cant deal with change, or items they had a chance to get, and now they missed out. I tell you, most games, would just let this slide, and they would had ignored the community because it was an Event weapon, but this is the 1st game I ever seen that had one of its most prized event items get nerfed, just because people kept whining about how OP it was in a CO-OP game. So please, keep bringing people down to your level whiners, keep trying, because there would be nothing left in the end other than all of these OP blowers, and weapons that have been nerfed into oblivion. Balance my ars, this isnt balance, this is murder to a weapon that didnt need to get hit this hard.

[ObviousLee]

when i did my 100 missions i said "This gun better be worth it" and it was, till it got nerfed because idiots cant deal with change, or items they had a chance to get, and now they missed out. I tell you, most games, would just let this slide, and they would had ignored the community because it was an Event weapon, but this is the 1st game I ever seen that had one of its most prized event items get nerfed, just because people kept whining about how OP it was in a CO-OP game. So please, keep bringing people down to your level whiners, keep trying, because there would be nothing left in the end other than all of these OP blowers, and weapons that have been nerfed into oblivion. Balance my ars, this isnt balance, this is murder to a weapon that didnt need to get hit this hard.

it didnt need to get hit NEARLY this hard.

[ObviousLee]

I just have one thing to say, you mostly complain of dropoff.... ITS A SHOTGUN NOT A SNIPER!

 

"BOO HOO I CAN'T NAIL THINGS WITH MY SHOTGUN, A WEAPON MADE FOR CLOSE RANGE, AT SNIPER RIFLE RANGE"

 

Thats basically what I'm hearing. There are enough viable shotguns, and shotguns are MADE to be specifically for close range, not an one gun fits all encounters. To play with a shotgun you need a viable secondary like a dual vasto, magnum, lex, so on. Stop trying to make an overpowered weapon so you don't need to try, because this game is one of the few free to play games you can't just exploit through like money or op weapons (well op weapons can be exploited until DE fixes them, and the brakk nerf shows it.) and by the way, 400 pellets... that might be for a scattergun cannon from the 1700s, but a normal shotgun goes from 8-40, depending on the shell, and 40 is for the most part, used by custom shotguns.

 

Either play the game, or play a lazy mans game and stop filling the forums with whiny spam.

do you have a brakk?

[VGLance]

The problem is that there are many players like myself that have reached end game.  The only real challenge now is to go deep in endless defense / survival missions and break our old personal bests.  We therefore take the lengthy time to not only research which weapons will help us get there, but we spend countless hours re-forma'ing them 4-5 times so that we can put all our maxed out mods on them.  But now, every time we pick an acrid or brakk or whatever that will take us past wave 100 or 3+ hours deep in a survival, we get screwed.

 

For all the people who disrespect min/maxers like me who set incredibly lofty goals in the game, you have to consider the fact that never do I ever disrespect your play style.  We pay our money, we have the right to enjoy the game as long as we are not hurting others or violating the terms of service.  Some play casually, some play hard core.  BOTH are acceptable play styles and MUST be respected.  Especially in a PvE game.

 

It is incredibly disturbing that people can't seem to grasp this simple concept.

 

All things being equal, if DE feels the need to make some adjustments, the only right thing to do is acknowledge the investment in time players put into these weapons and give the players the option to get a reset of their forma's accordingly.  The players still won't recover the time spent re-leveling the weapons over and over.

 

A game company maximizes its profits when it respects its player base.  Because loyalty = $$$.  It's just that simple.