Ogris Vs Corpus...

[HoopleDoople]

The Ogris has long been one of my favorite weapons. It's a high risk, high reward weapon that I find very interesting to use. When well modded and skillfully wielded it can be quite devastating against packs of enemies. However, since damage 2.0 hit the Ogris has had some significant problems against the Corpus.

 

It was to be expected that the Ogris would be weakest against the Corpus, as its innate blast damage is 25% weaker vs shields. However, one would imagine proper modding would be sufficient to make the Ogris at least somewhat effective against Corpus. Well imagine my surprise to see a Ogris packing serration rank 10 and as much magnetic damage as possible (among other things) dealing 100 damage or less against Crewmen. Moas weren't nearly so resilient to the Ogris, but their shields became increasingly problematic at higher levels.

 

I've been testing and here's what I think the problems are:

 

1) As far as I can tell elemental mods are not affecting the explosion - only direct hits with the rocket. If this is the case, it is an obnoxious bug or horrendous design choice. Elemental mods are extremely important for weapon damage and achieving success against the varying factions and enemy types. In this case the Ogris is sorely in need of magnetic damage to help cut through shields.

 

2) Explosions are almost always targeting Crewmen's heads. When the Crewmen were hit by the Ogris' explosion (as opposed to a direct hit) their head seemed to absorb the hit in most situations. This isn't all that surprising as the Ogris has always had a tendency to hit heads. I did see the explosion damaging the body sometimes when the rocket hit the ground behind the Crewmen or their shields were down.

 

3) Crewmen heads are absurdly resistant to damage. A hit to the head was dealing 10 to 20 times less damage than one to the body. I'm all for armored heads not being a weak point, but the resistance shouldn't be quite so high or there should be a way to bypass much of it.

 

I highly encourage the devs to investigate and fix these problems so the Ogris can once again be a valid option for facing the Corpus and/or high level content. Anyone with relevant info on this subject or corrections to what I've posted please share.

[DetergentPod]

Ogris High risk? Not with a Trinity lol.

I go in shooting myself in the face with it.

[Quasar-Sandwich]

Ogris High risk? Not with a Trinity lol.

I go in shooting myself in the face with it.

still high risk when your not paying attention and you kill yourself just after the timer runs out.

 

On topic: I have also noticed that the ogris does sh!t damage to shields and even if you were to increase the damage by 500%, you wont get anywhere with a level 20 corpus moa. Also the head hitting with the crewman is pissing me off, shouldn't there be some sort of concussion damage that causes you to deal near 100% damage to the head what with the blast smacking their brain around? I think its a great gun, but they should add the damage increase of elements vs shields and make elemental damage do some sort of armor ignore the the head of the crewman. On another note, have you noticed that between level 25-27 the greneer heavy's armor changes your damage dealt from somewhere around 4000 damage to 700 damage?

[DetergentPod]

still high risk when your not paying attention and you kill yourself just after the timer runs out.

 

On topic: I have also noticed that the ogris does sh!t damage to shields and even if you were to increase the damage by 500%, you wont get anywhere with a level 20 corpus moa. Also the head hitting with the crewman is &!$$ing me off, shouldn't there be some sort of concussion damage that causes you to deal near 100% damage to the head what with the blast smacking their brain around? I think its a great gun, but they should add the damage increase of elements vs shields and make elemental damage do some sort of armor ignore the the head of the crewman. On another note, have you noticed that between level 25-27 the greneer heavy's armor changes your damage dealt from somewhere around 4000 damage to 700 damage?

Why not add ice damage to it since Ice is good against Shields.

[se05239]

The Blast damage that Ogris deals do 25% less damage to shields. 

Adding any fire or cold to your build will only improve the blast damage. 

[DetergentPod]

The Blast damage that Ogris deals do 25% less damage to shields. 

Adding any fire or cold to your build will only improve the blast damage. 

Well that is stupid. =\

Now a perfectly OP weapon with equal negative drawbacks just lost of some its luster.

[Quasar-Sandwich]

Why not add ice damage to it since Ice is good against Shields.

the blast does the blast damage plus the damage mods you put on it but leaves out any other elemental damage you put on it.

[ValhaHazred]

But it's still really good against Grineer and Infested. Remember the devs don't want the powerful guns being great against every faction.

[Hawner]

1) As far as I can tell elemental mods are not affecting the explosion - only direct hits with the rocket. If this is the case, it is an obnoxious bug or horrendous design choice. Elemental mods are extremely important for weapon damage and achieving success against the varying factions and enemy types. In this case the Ogris is sorely in need of magnetic damage to help cut through shields.

 

Of course it's not affecting the explosion. The explosion is the element of the weapon, Blast. Think about this for a moment: when you apply element mods to other weapons, let's say a Braton, what you are doing is applying it to the bullets, right? When you make a Blast element with mods, you are applying them to those bullets too, correct? Now, you have the Blast effect and you add... Corrosive. It is also added to the bullet. Perfect.

Now, think about Ogris. That weapon does not work as the other weapons do. You are not aiming the rocket to the enemy, so to speak. You are really hurting the enemy, and those around him, with the Blast effect it has by default when the ammo explodes. It's a special version of Blast, specifically configured to be wider and stronger than a normal Blast element. Now, you add more element to the rocket. Ok. The Blast will not be modified by it. What is being modified it's the Rocket itself. The Blast will remain just as before. You can add damage of other elements, buy it will be  minor.

[HoopleDoople]

Of course it's not affecting the explosion. The explosion is the element of the weapon, Blast. Think about this for a moment: when you apply element mods to other weapons, let's say a Braton, what you are doing is applying it to the bullets, right? When you make a Blast element with mods, you are applying them to those bullets too, correct? Now, you have the Blast effect and you add... Corrosive. It is also added to the bullet. Perfect.

Now, think about Ogris. That weapon does not work as the other weapons do. You are not aiming the rocket to the enemy, so to speak. You are really hurting the enemy, and those around him, with the Blast effect it has by default when the ammo explodes. It's a special version of Blast, specifically configured to be wider and stronger than a normal Blast element. Now, you add more element to the rocket. Ok. The Blast will not be modified by it. What is being modified it's the Rocket itself. The Blast will remain just as before. You can add damage of other elements, buy it will be  minor.

 

Realism does not inherently equate to fun. Nor is it particularly needed in a game featuring space ninjas. It was also my understanding that elemental mods worked on other weapons that have a base elemental type (e.g. Ignis, Syanpse). It is perfectly fine for weapons to have weaknesses, but asinine for any weapon to be next to useful against a specific faction. The Ogris needs to be able to utilize elemental mods, period. If this happens to make the Ogris OP it's as simple a fix as lowering the base damage to compensate.

Edited December 8, 2013 by HoopleDoople

[Quasar-Sandwich]

Of course it's not affecting the explosion. The explosion is the element of the weapon, Blast. Think about this for a moment: when you apply element mods to other weapons, let's say a Braton, what you are doing is applying it to the bullets, right? When you make a Blast element with mods, you are applying them to those bullets too, correct? Now, you have the Blast effect and you add... Corrosive. It is also added to the bullet. Perfect.

Now, think about Ogris. That weapon does not work as the other weapons do. You are not aiming the rocket to the enemy, so to speak. You are really hurting the enemy, and those around him, with the Blast effect it has by default when the ammo explodes. It's a special version of Blast, specifically configured to be wider and stronger than a normal Blast element. Now, you add more element to the rocket. Ok. The Blast will not be modified by it. What is being modified it's the Rocket itself. The Blast will remain just as before. You can add damage of other elements, buy it will be  minor.

lets say that you add in a heat/blast resistant corrosive liquid to the explosives used for the rocket. What do you think you get? A frickn' corrosive rocket. Even if you want to justify it with realism, your not going anywhere other than to the other side of a circular loop. (A.k.a. around to the same spot). It's also imperative for you to realize that this is a game and that there shouldn't be any realism to that extent. Go play some Day Z or Arma 3 if you want some realism.

[Methanoid]

The Blast damage that Ogris deals do 25% less damage to shields. 

Adding any fire or cold to your build will only improve the blast damage. 

 

since when did blast have any negatives?  afaik since 2.0 came out, blast doesnt have a single negative, its +25% to Flesh and Armor with no negatives, its 1 of the "all good" elements like corrosive/heat which also only have positives and no negatives.

 

edit: i notice posts on the forums state "facts" about dmg types, then the wiki now has slightly differing facts, as does the older/original reddit chart.  all of them have slightly different "stats/facts" ¬ ¬

Edited December 8, 2013 by Methanoid

[HoopleDoople]

since when did blast have any negatives?  afaik since 2.0 came out, blast doesnt have a single negative, its +25% to Flesh and Armor with no negatives, its 1 of the "all good" elements like corrosive/heat which also only have positives and no negatives.

 

Some of the damage modifiers were altered since 2.0 was released. For current modifiers see:

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0#Overview_Table

[epidaleacalamita]

Adding any fire or cold to your build will only improve the blast damage. 

check your privilege pls

[Sixty5]

Radiation is good in general.

Build magnetic on it. And yes elements do effect the boom, well blast does at least.

[Hawner]

Realism does not inherently equate to fun. Nor is it particularly needed in a game featuring space ninjas. It was also my understanding that elemental mods worked on other weapons that have a base elemental type (e.g. Ignis, Syanpse). It is perfectly fine for weapons to have weaknesses, but asinine for any weapon to be next to useful against a specific faction. The Ogris needs to be able to utilize elemental mods, period. If this happens to make the Ogris OP it's as simple a fix as lowering the base damage to compensate.

 

lets say that you add in a heat/blast resistant corrosive liquid to the explosives used for the rocket. What do you think you get? A frickn' corrosive rocket. Even if you want to justify it with realism, your not going anywhere other than to the other side of a circular loop. (A.k.a. around to the same spot). It's also imperative for you to realize that this is a game and that there shouldn't be any realism to that extent. Go play some Day Z or Arma 3 if you want some realism.

 

I am not using "realism" in any way. I am applying the game's logic to the reason other elements do not work properly on an Ogris. Because if I were to use realism only a 20% of the game would have an explanation of how it works.

 

Ogris is NOT a normal weapon. It is made to hit multiple enemies with a powerful blast, something that no other weapon, besides Torid in a similar way, have. Yes, you can use elemental mods to elemental weapons and they work just fine. But these new elements (Magnetic, Blast, Corrosive...) can not be modified. Improved, yes; but not modified.

You can add fire/cold/toxin element to a Synapse, and it will turn Radiation/magnetic/corrosive. But, once that one of these is in, you can only add more. That adds more damage (and effects is you make a second combined elemental), but that does not modify the first one.

 

What is the problem with Ogris? That you are not shooting something that you can make hot/cold/electrified/magnetic/corrosive... Etc. Technically, you are shooting Blast elemental damage, and the rocket it's only carrying it to the enemy.You are not being hit by something by a heated/cold/magnetic/corrosive bullet, only the Blast effect, and that can not be modified in any way. Improve the blast and it will be better. But only for those weak to Blast and to Blast only. Ogris is made that way. Take it or leave it. It is great just the way it is.

[Brimir]

You have 500 freaking rockets for that thing.

 

What does it matter if you have to take one or two rockets to kill a Corpus Crewman (and all his buds around him)?

[EagleRise]

the elemental damage only effects the rocket, the AoE is still Blast I believe.

[Hawner]

the elemental damage only effects the rocket, the AoE is still Blast I believe.

 

Exactly. And basically all the important damage it deals is Blast, so...

[honeybadger]

since when did blast have any negatives?  afaik since 2.0 came out, blast doesnt have a single negative, its +25% to Flesh and Armor with no negatives, its 1 of the "all good" elements like corrosive/heat which also only have positives and no negatives.

 

edit: i notice posts on the forums state "facts" about dmg types, then the wiki now has slightly differing facts, as does the older/original reddit chart.  all of them have slightly different "stats/facts" ¬ ¬

It was patched soon after U11. Blast now does -25% to shields. Check the [Explained/Solved] Damage 2.0 thread at the top of GD.

[HoopleDoople]

You have 500 freaking rockets for that thing.

 

What does it matter if you have to take one or two rockets to kill a Corpus Crewman (and all his buds around him)?

 

You underestimate how pitiful the Ogris is against Crewmen. When the damage is reduced to ~100 it can take 3 rockets to remove the shields from a level 10 Crewman, plus one more to kill him after that (unless you land direct hits). Almost any other well modded weapon will kill the same Crewman outright in just a couple hits which will be delivered far more rapidly. Not saying 500 rockets isn't ridiculous or that you'll ever run out of ammo, but the pathetic damage makes the Ogris essentially useless vs Crewmen.

[DHKany]

Ogris seems really inconsistent against corpus......

 

sometimes it one shots an entire group of mobs, other times it does 80 damage.... .

[Brimir]

You underestimate how pitiful the Ogris is against Crewmen. When the damage is reduced to ~100 it can take 3 rockets to remove the shields from a level 10 Crewman, plus one more to kill him after that (unless you land direct hits). Almost any other well modded weapon will kill the same Crewman outright in just a couple hits which will be delivered far more rapidly. Not saying 500 rockets isn't ridiculous or that you'll ever run out of ammo, but the pathetic damage makes the Ogris essentially useless vs Crewmen.

 

All I am saying that if DE should do a total remake of both the Ogris and Torid, you have to be prepared to give this ridiculous ammo efficiency up. Make them truly powerful rocket and/or grenade launchers and have them work with Sniper Ammo instead.

 

Or something like that.

[Mak_Gohae]

All I am saying that if DE should do a total remake of both the Ogris and Torid, you have to be prepared to give this ridiculous ammo efficiency up. Make them truly powerful rocket and/or grenade launchers and have them work with Sniper Ammo instead.

 

Or something like that.

 

They shoot Detonite and Mutagen not rockets and nades.

It's the future man!

 

But the Torid really need to be looked into because without splash damage that thing is really useless.

[Brimir]

They shoot Detonite and Mutagen not rockets and nades.

It's the future man!

 

If the future can produce "rockets" and "grenades" that come in stacks of 500, why doesn't my Gorgon have 9001 total bullets?

 

:(