Underperforming Weapons And Feedback: Post Em Here.

[MagpieOAO]

First off, we need to figure out a good baseline. You can't consider things that are insanely good like Soma and Galentine as where all weapons should be, ideally it would be a weapon that is perfectly viable, but in reality probably overlooked in favor of FoTM weapons.

 

Secondly, should melee weapons be considered? Melee has been hinted at getting an overhaul soon, so we may well just wait and see how that goes.

Please try and stay away from hyperbole (Brakk was amazing, Now it's useless! Can't even kill anything!) and use comparisons when possible so people can wrap their heads around it easier.

[Hixlysss]

I wish I could wrap my head around what makes the soma so awesome. I think it's the combination of high crit change + high crit damage. The synapse is pretty great compaired to the soma, not as OP feeling but fun to use and effective.

 

Honestly, Soma should be dialed back to be more on par with the Synapse and other weapons brought up to those weapons level or close enough too it to be viable alternatives.

 

Ultimately what I think may fix or help this situation is enemies being more resistant to certain types of physical damage. Soma does what...mostly slash and puncture? Then it should be crap against corpus, decent against grineer, effective against infested. Shields should resist against slash and puncture, armor should resist impact and slash, infested are great as is.

[VentiGlondi]

Tigris could use a reload speed buff. It has problems with dealing with multiple enemies unless you have punchthrough.

I need to take a break between every two corpses.

 

There are also bows, which are harder to aim with than sniper rifles, deal less damage and need to be charged to deal full damage. I'd also really like to see a high status chance on those (no, 15% is not high).

Edited December 9, 2013 by VentiGlondi

[Thaumatos]

With the exception of charged Galatine, all melee underperforms.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Honestly, The Galatine is the only melee suited for Pluto or T3.  Dakra could probably use a buff of about 30-40% on paper.  And then of course everything else is worse than the two of them.

 

Embolist and Spectra are still bad.  

 

The Flux Rifle took a huge hit now that Serrated Blade is no longer a thing.

 

Braton Prime, Paris Prime, and Latron Prime are all eclipsed by other weaponry in their classes, so they could all stand to get buffs.  The Braton Prime at least could stand to have its unmodded DPS bumped from 231 to about 430.  That would stick it in-line with Supra and Soma.  I'd recommend making such a change by focusing on a damage increase rather than a rate increase.

 

Bows as someone suggested elsewhere should all get super-high proc chances because they're all outclassed by snipers or rifles.

 

I wish I could wrap my head around what makes the soma so awesome. I think it's the combination of high crit change + high crit damage. The synapse is pretty great compaired to the soma, not as OP feeling but fun to use and effective.

 

Honestly, Soma should be dialed back to be more on par with the Synapse and other weapons brought up to those weapons level or close enough too it to be viable alternatives.

 

Ultimately what I think may fix or help this situation is enemies being more resistant to certain types of physical damage. Soma does what...mostly slash and puncture? Then it should be crap against corpus, decent against grineer, effective against infested. Shields should resist against slash and puncture, armor should resist impact and slash, infested are great as is.

Soma is amazingly powerful because of one thing which leads into another:

1. It is hugely impacted by Point Strike+Vital Sense which together increase its damage by 330%.

2. Due to the heightened damage from crits and the high rate of the gun, it can spew out terrifying damage at enemies.

 

The Soma is as powerful as it is even against shields simply because while it may not have the best Impact damage, its DPS is through the roof compared to most other rifles, so the 180% elemental damage more than compensates for it.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Akbolto. Costs more plats than Dual Vastos and Kunai which doesn't make sense.

Crit and status buffs are needed. It used to be a popular weapon like the Boltor...

really? On paper, it's one of the best now Edited December 9, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Ddublu]

Yeah... the Akbolto's are pretty S#&$ compared to more recently released stuff. I want to say that currently the best dual pistols are the Dual Vastos. Although with Aklex out that may change.

[Cruisader]

dual ichor and acrid both poison damage which no longer ignoring armor,bow which hard to aim at long range moving target should deserve higher dmg or crit chance or crit damage<they not easily acquire(except cernos)

[Mr.ominous]

Embolist is one of the most difficult weapons to obtain and yet it is overlooked by most players for weapons like Brakk and dual Vastos. I honestly think that a level 8 weapon should be a little bit more viable. Granted its dps and CC can be good, but that is only within something like a Vauban vortex. I think the weapon needs a little more range to be viable fighting anything that is not infested with any frame that isn't vauban. Its fine for weapons to have niches, but Embolist's niche is a wee bit too tiny.

[lautalocos]

cernos. can´t 1 shot a MOA or crewman (but crewman have currently a bug so that you do almost no damage on headshots, but still, that should be fixed, and MOAs dont have that protection)

[Helljack84]

I'd say weapons should be a little more balanced considering costs/availability and tradeoffs.

 

If you look at the supra the dps isn't bad but even if you are the most awesome leet sniper ever and hit 100% of your shots you could use a hitscan weapon with half the dps and aim for weak spots to kill things faster and more ammo efficient. And there are weapons with more dps that can aim for weak spots...

 

Pretty much the same for bows vs sniper rifles.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I don't get it.

Dual Vastos (220): 12.5 / 12.5 / 25.0 / 15% Crit / 5.0% Status

Akbolto (225): 2.5 / 22.5 / 0 / 2.5% Crit / 2.0% Status

That just means that they perform worse than the Vastos which are also one of the best.  They're still better than the majority of pistols.

[Grulos]

Pretty much every weapon with puncture, since slash does more damage vs Grineer than puncture weapons.

[ArmyOfFun]

Shotguns past 15-20 meters.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Rankless

[SoulEchelon]

Tigris could use a reload speed buff. It has problems with dealing with multiple enemies unless you have punchthrough.

I need to take a break between every two corpses.

 

There are also bows, which are harder to aim with than sniper rifles, deal less damage and need to be charged to deal full damage. I'd also really like to see a high status chance on those (no, 15% is not high).

 

I gotta disagree. Tigris is supposed to be a double barrel shotgun, and that's pretty much how it currently works. High power, but needs to reload constantly. And that reload balances it out (though maybe a small buff to damage output would be nice).

 

I'd post my Tigris build but I forma'd it not too long ago and it's not back at max yet. Currently, I'm using max Tactical Pump (reload speed) and rank 4 Ammo Stock (50% more magazine capacity, which means there's 3 shots per magazine. It still does two quick shots, but there's now a back up shot you can do right afterward. Max Ammo Stock would be useless, since it only goes up to rank 5). Yes there's still a delay thanks to reload, but that's how it should be imo.

 

Tigris currently is my favorite primary. Obviously not due to its damage output, but due to it actually being...fun. Gotta actually think about where and what you're shooting. There's some actual reward for using your brain instead of just standing still and killing everything instantly. In order to be effective with it, you have to constantly keep moving and dodging and timing your advances. I enjoy the challenge.

Edited December 9, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Dogoframe]

Majority? Are Kraken and Lato the majority now?

If anyone says those two (and Aklato) should be buffed, I'd agree 100%.

I also mentioned that Akbolto costs more platinum than Dual Vastos.

The prices for weapons in platinum should not be brought to a discussion about efficiency IMHO because they are, frankly, ridiculous, for all weapons, no exceptions. We should preach that to new players. No matter what our opinions are about DE's job at making a good game, the sole biggest mistake they are making is not revisiting the market prices.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Dogoframe

[Baigan]

Brakk. I would have not potato'd and forma'd it 5 times if it was worthless past spitting range.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Majority? Are Kraken and Lato the majority now?

If anyone says those two (and Aklato) should be buffed, I'd agree 100%.

I also mentioned that Akbolto costs more platinum than Dual Vastos.

Just take a look at this:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlWVt6vp3-YWdFh0dS1YNUxjRXRENnBJa1dqQ1pXVXc&usp=drive_web#gid=5

[Cytobel]

I would really like to see a full rework of melee come out.  There are a few examples of weapons sitting right next to a direct replacement as things presently stand.

 

For me, the worst offender is the Gram/Ether Reaper comparison.  The Ether literally does 25% more damage baseline, at the cost of a 0.2 swing speed decrease (after full modding).  True, there is a difference for charge attack, but if we build for charge with a sword, it isn't gonna be with the Gram.  This is after the smexy rework of the Gram's model, to boot.

 

I realize this is the age of Damage 2.0, and proc chance has come to power, but here melee also gets another shaft:  melee had it's knockdown slam proc'd.

 

I think this is overuse of a mechanic, and for no real purpose.  The groundslam already had all real damage taken off of it, but now it does nothing of value to anything not directly in the swing path.  Realistic, sure, but pulling value away from a weapon by removing a primary use?  More than a little harsh, especially seeing as how we've lost so much damage potential when the elemental mods were declawed.

 

By the by, I hear that some weapons still have viable knockdown, but this mechanical rework tends to put the screw into most of my preferred choices.

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Sorry if I hyperbolized in there.  I assure you it isn't intentional.  Just trying to get my thoughts in order there.

 

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For other reworks, we need most of the older weapons to get a look-see.  Many have had their damage values straight-up divided into three parts.  This becomes an issue when we consider damage growth through modding.  There are more than a few cases of one weapon simply turning out far superior to another after mods, despite (and due to) a minuscule difference in base numbers.

----------------------------

 

Postscript:  The Grakata.  3/3/3.  This is a weapon that should be a 8/5/8 or some variant thereof, if only to give it the bite to make me notice that Grineer are trying to cause me more harm than irritation.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Cytobel

[Voidflow]

- Spectra

[Volt_Cruelerz]

So... a graph showing all the weapons stats.

Is this really supposed to tell me that Akbolto is better than the majority of secondaries?

I actually used the thing. It sweeps off trash mobs sure (like a modded lato) but it's when enemies are past being low lv a weapon needs crit chance and status chance. And Akbolto has neither. So I think it should have some sort of buff. That's all I'm saying.

*and yes I shouldn't talk about how it costs more plats than Dual Vastos

it may well need a buff, but my point was that it was above the median, meaning that those below it would also likely require one too

[Potato0707]

I wish I could wrap my head around what makes the soma so awesome. I think it's the combination of high crit change + high crit damage. The synapse is pretty great compaired to the soma, not as OP feeling but fun to use and effective.

 

Honestly, Soma should be dialed back to be more on par with the Synapse and other weapons brought up to those weapons level or close enough too it to be viable alternatives.

 

Ultimately what I think may fix or help this situation is enemies being more resistant to certain types of physical damage. Soma does what...mostly slash and puncture? Then it should be crap against corpus, decent against grineer, effective against infested. Shields should resist against slash and puncture, armor should resist impact and slash, infested are great as is.

I hope you realize the soma does less damage than the synapse

[Phoenix86]

Burston and Hind need a buff for sure

 

Maybe a Burston Prime or an Hind Wraith could come out?

 

Those burst rifles need more dmg in order to compensate their nature...

 

or if not more flat dmg, more crit/status chance

[Cruisader]

and about the melee,charged weapon will easily modded but normal hit melee weapon are lack of mod to support them

[Monolake]

Latron