Stop The Nerfs, Bring On The Buffs!

[(PSN)DarkTemplar6969]

Idk why anyone would ask for a nerf in this game...I mean come on we new players struggle as it is

[Tr1ples1xer]

I want MORE power not less  

 

+1

[Grandarex]

So... what happened to DE wanting Tiered weapons? 

[LukeAura]

Game is too easy as it is.  Last thing we need is to make it even easier.

How does buffing weak weapons make the game any easier? Buffing the weaker weapons isn't going to make the Soma/Synapse and other top tier weapons any stronger. 

[BETAOPTICS]

I agree, normally I don't like the good of guns in a game but this game is a rare exception for some odd reason, it is fun to be good in this game and true balance is achieved with proper nerfing and buffing alike, it works in both ways. Not only that but a good balance finds it's place among all the items and tools the player has that are properly good against the opponents you encounter and as of now, I feel a bit frustrated by the way the balance is since Damage 2.0 and Armor 2.0. The systems are great but balance is not in my opinion and the nerfs were unnecessary when I thought they should buff most of the guns, not nerf the guns that felt properly balanced.

[Kagumin]

Instead of balancing one thing, BUFF EVERYTHING ELSE!
Seems legit.

[ObviousLee]

the somas direct descendant was the grakata. They gave up on the grakata (or so it would seem because it actually received a nerf after being considered the worst weapon in the game) and just came out with the soma which is what the grakata should have been. so in a sense the soma does need a nerf to bring it back down into scale with EVERY OTHER WEAPON.

 

case being some weapons just really need a nerf.

yes, make yourself, and everyone weaker. yes because that will totally make the hard stuff more enjoyable.

[SJunior]

No thank you. DE tried that pre u9 and had t. Buff every enemy in the game to try and get rid of some of the power creep.

If a weapon is too powerful it should be brought back in line with everything else. This keeps the games balance.

Likewise weapons lacking in power should be brought up to the correct level of power.

^This.

 

Game needs both buffs and nerfs.

[Vitriolic_Crux]

I just hope the Hind gets some love at some point. I really like the feel of that gun.

[Lazer]

Theres more to balance then damage.

Edited December 12, 2013 by iTzLazer

[Cwierz]

(I TRULY believe some of them are written by trolls and competitors to DE trying to ruin this game.)  

Wow. You need to take your conspiracy lenses off. Just that fact that some people can think that blows my mind. 

 

I want MORE power not less  

 

+1

Then get skill. That is a inherently better way to balance a game rather than this "buff everything cause we understand how game design works and numeric values are the best way to create a balanced game" attitude we have right now.

 

So... what happened to DE wanting Tiered weapons? 

When did you believe that the community listens to DE, we still want to believe that they will balance infinite and exponential scaling just so we can shoot the same 5 enemies over and over again in survival while invulnerable with the only real challenge of keeping a bar above 0.

 

Instead of balancing one thing, BUFF EVERYTHING ELSE!

Seems legit.

I personally believe the attitude stems from people not being able to play the game without the OP weapons, but whatever.

 

yes, make yourself, and everyone weaker. yes because that will totally make the hard stuff more enjoyable.

I am pretty sure there are more things that will be added to warframe that will make the high level content enjoyable, nerfing a couple items certainly will not kill the game, and if it does... well that just goes to show how unbalanced they are.

[ObviousLee]

 

I am pretty sure there are more things that will be added to warframe that will make the high level content enjoyable, nerfing a couple items certainly will not kill the game, and if it does... well that just goes to show how unbalanced they are.

i dont know what planet or plane of existence you come from, but taking something away from one thing, does not magically make the others any better

 

nerfing acrid did not make the sobek any more awesome.

 

nerfing the brakk did not make the soma any better.

 

nerfing ANYTHING only effects the THING THAT WAS NERFED. if you cannot grasp this, then logic is not with you. BALANCE, is when one stat is tweaked, and an adjacent stat is also tweaked. BALANCE is just that, equalization of forces, not drop one thing to complete uselessness and then call it done.

 

you all must be utterly terrified of the outer areas to want EVERYTHING pulled back toward early to mid game. im sorry, but no matter what game i play, if i KNOW im going up against something really challenging, i bring my a-list gear until i know what im dealing with.

 

but no, you're going to scream math this, and balance that until you get what you want and to hell with anyone else.

 

 

read EVERY nerf thread and you'll see a pattern develop. everyone who wants something nerfed screams and raves about how "game breaking it is" and yet, the ones who don't want a nerf, tend to be a bit more laid back about it(there are exceptions) and want to keep things the way they are.

 

some people enjoy using OP gear, who is anyone to say no to that in a PVE game.

 

oh, they're "ruining your fun"? dont play with them.

 

dont like the weapon? dont use it.

 

you all are still acting like usage of powerful materials is MANDATED, and the funny thing is, its not.

 

see, the utterly sad thing is, what weapons you use, is a choice. what you want to do, is take away the choice all together, because you feel others dont deserve it. you. dont. have. that. right. NONE of you do. you hate nova's M-prime? play with people who dont use her. if that exceeds your difficulty levels than maybe try some yoga till you develop some patience.

 

you ALL need to stop acting as if taking away options is the way to go, and learn to let people play in a way they enjoy. because honestly, it seems like the ONLY people NOT having fun, are all of you lovely folks screaming for nerfs.

[NikolaiLev]

 

We can't keep nerfing every weapon that's stronger than the majority of other weapons!  If we do, it'll just make it harder to do high level survivals and defenses, which is a lot of time where all the fun is!

 

 

 

If this is a problem, then survival and defenses should just become easier until it's balanced.

 

Balance is not achieved by buffing things like crazy.  That's how power creep happens.  That's poor game design.

 

Things overpowered should be nerfed and things underpowered should be buffed.

[Kagumin]

-snip-

 

The funny thing is, this argument you clearly developed only happened because your sidearm shotgun can't snipe people anymore.

 

Here's a quote I read that applies to this:

 

"However, you see you started very good - private groups, restrictions, weapons.. but eventually it is all came down to Brakk."

Edited December 12, 2013 by Kagumin

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Upon further investigation. Most of these nerf herders have less than 200 hours in game, one even 50 some odd hours. None higher than mastery rank 7. All somewhere between 200-1000 missions. Barely any participation in events. Very casual profiles.

Check them out for yourselves.

I urge everyone and the devs to dig a little deeper before making/requesting drastic changes to the game. I have my doubts on whether some of these requests are from those who've experienced/explored all that there is to this game.

[Kagumin]

Upon further investigation. Most of these nerf herders have less than 200 hours in game, one even 50 some odd hours. None higher than mastery rank 7. All somewhere between 200-1000 missions. Barely any participation in events. Very casual profiles.

Check them out for yourselves.

I urge everyone and the devs to dig a little deeper before making/requesting drastic changes to the game. I have my doubts on whether some of these requests are from those who've experienced/explored all that there is to this game.

 

This guy. This guy right here.

Prime example of an elitist.

[ObviousLee]

The funny thing is, this argument you clearly developed only happened because your sidearm shotgun can't snipe people anymore.

 

Here's a quote I read that applies to this:

 

"However, you see you started very good - private groups, restrictions, weapons.. but eventually it is all came down to Brakk."

the funnier thing is, in your 12 days of playing warframe, you picked MY post to single out? why? because the word brakk was in it? if you'd bothered to read PAST that word instead of blowing it off because i happened to place the name of a weapon YOU DONT EVEN OWN in my post as an example of nerfing a weapon does not increase the usefulness of another?

 

good try rookie, see you at practice.

[GrayFox]

I won't defend people who asks for nerfs, but I won't defend people who asks for buff either. IMO the right thing is to do both. We should take a weapon that would act like a reference weapon, let's say Braton Prime for primaries, Dual Vipers for secondaries and Orthos Prime for melee weapons (note that I DO NOT have these weapon at time) and see what's really outclass them for a nerf, and what's is really oultclassed by them for a buff.

 

It's a total suggestion ! Do NOT jump on my face because the Dual Vipers/Braton Prime/Orthos Prime are not good weapons (which I really doubt) or because I said nerf in my damn post.

 

Brakk nerf sounds good actually.

 

If I were to rank the weapons (with heavy to little bias for melee weapons <3) I'd go with Orthos, Bn. Prime, Dual Vipers)

Having reference weapons will always be a thing, all tennos will inevitably compare each weapon (pros and cons included) + their playstyle + how the weapon fits in that play-style.

The Orthos Prime is the 2nd (if not 1st) best overall melee weapon (good charge and normal swing [slash damage particularly] damage, as well as slide/spin attack and quite a good reach), the Braton Prime, quite a decent one for assault rifles but it's quite evident that for most of the roided-up tennos, it's not that viable compared to some Primaries (I think Soma would still be the best assault rifle for high tier content imho). The Dual Vipers were good pre-Acrid worship, throwing knives fest. Now with the damage 2.0, the dual vipers are certainly just for fun. I personally play the game for fun so there's no damage with that in mind, but I wouldn't bring the dual vipers where damage is one of the priorities. That being said, I do recall Steve clearly stating that there won't be any more nerfs, but instead, bringing the rest up standard-wise.

 

For my case (and for most of the tennos out there) You'll know right off the bat if a weapon is definitely worth the forma, some weapons need some slapping of those to shine, while some, even if you forma'd all neutral slots, it's still won't be viable. I don't mind that. It serves as a way to have weapon tiers. You just can't help but have weapons that are better than the other. What I would think sucks is that if I were to go with tiered weapons, Warframe's consistency for having a diluted amount of weapons for low tier, about half the amount for mid-tier, and just a few for those most sought after "high tier" guns (high tier being the most viable, the "go to" weapons for high level content).

 

I am one for balancing, but the thing is, it's always the high tier weapons that are being made as references for nerfs and buffs by quite an outspoken community. Back in damage 1.0, the acrid was revered as the best secondary. It was arguably true, but I personally didn't like it (I call it the fart gun) and I just didn't use it, even then the acrid was being clamored for a nerf.

Having weapons as references for nerfs and buffs is a double edged sword, and like I said, how things are, it's completely the opposite. Instead of having the high tier weapons as benchmarks, they are being brought down, having the low-tier and mid-tier as references for those changes. It's counter-intuitive if I may say so boldly. 

 

While I do believe that there are in-house testers over at DE for Warframe weapon testing, I think it's possible to have satellite testers (testers all over the world) since Warframe can be played offline anyway, why not release an independent offline client for the sole purpose of testing, where chosen players are notified if they would want to participate into weapon testing. When there's a weapon to be released, they'll just have to download a manual patch for the offline version, test it out, give feedback to the devs. If within a week or so prior to its release that both the devs and the testers can't have a consensus as to how it will be rolled out, either extend the testing phase or just bring it back to the vault for future content. There are a lot of ways to do so. But that's an ideal suggestion, there are a lot of factors playing in, weapon testing isn't just a walk in the park, it takes time. DE might be thinking that they would have to pay for people that would do it (and it's not bad to think of it that way). But as I'm seeing Warframe's community, there would be a chunk of its population that would be willing to do so, free of charge, just to help Warframe as it is.

[Cwierz]

i dont know what planet or plane of existence you come from, but taking something away from one thing, does not magically make the others any better

 

nerfing acrid did not make the sobek any more awesome.

 

nerfing the brakk did not make the soma any better.

 

nerfing ANYTHING only effects the THING THAT WAS NERFED. if you cannot grasp this, then logic is not with you. BALANCE, is when one stat is tweaked, and an adjacent stat is also tweaked. BALANCE is just that, equalization of forces, not drop one thing to complete uselessness and then call it done.

 

you all must be utterly terrified of the outer areas to want EVERYTHING pulled back toward early to mid game. im sorry, but no matter what game i play, if i KNOW im going up against something really challenging, i bring my a-list gear until i know what im dealing with.

 

but no, you're going to scream math this, and balance that until you get what you want and to hell with anyone else.

 

 

read EVERY nerf thread and you'll see a pattern develop. everyone who wants something nerfed screams and raves about how "game breaking it is" and yet, the ones who don't want a nerf, tend to be a bit more laid back about it(there are exceptions) and want to keep things the way they are.

 

some people enjoy using OP gear, who is anyone to say no to that in a PVE game.

 

oh, they're "ruining your fun"? dont play with them.

 

dont like the weapon? dont use it.

 

you all are still acting like usage of powerful materials is MANDATED, and the funny thing is, its not.

 

see, the utterly sad thing is, what weapons you use, is a choice. what you want to do, is take away the choice all together, because you feel others dont deserve it. you. dont. have. that. right. NONE of you do. you hate nova's M-prime? play with people who dont use her. if that exceeds your difficulty levels than maybe try some yoga till you develop some patience.

 

you ALL need to stop acting as if taking away options is the way to go, and learn to let people play in a way they enjoy. because honestly, it seems like the ONLY people NOT having fun, are all of you lovely folks screaming for nerfs.

 

I would also like to point out that you just called math stupid and how I used it to incorrectly justify myself. wow. your post is most likely rooted so far into confirmation bias, presumptions and irrelevant points you would ignore the actual topic in favor of hashing out sayings similar to "thats just your opinion" or "its all about you isn't it." or maybe even the stereotypical factually incorrect post that ignores the post before.

 

I mean hell, everything that is an actual argument is so obviously incorrect or unjust that I find it odd that you can really say those things in seriousness. I mean, if you want me to [more] respectfully list these at a later time I can, but you are gonna have to tone it down a bit first.

 

I mean, I just want a vague sense of balance, be it by tiering, or an equilibrium type. It would allow players to play how THEY want to without being overshadowed by somebody who is using max dps + blessing.

 

 

"you ALL need to stop acting as if taking away options is the way to go, and learn to let people play in a way they enjoy. because honestly, it seems like the ONLY people NOT having fun, are all of you lovely folks screaming for nerfs."

 

Hmm, maybe you need to stop acting like we are doing something when we are really doing something else entirely. We are advocating for either something that works better than what we have (tiering), or an actual sense of balance. This game is not exempt from balance just because it might nerf something you have. 

 

Now why don't you shove that strawman back into your list of arguments that should never be typed and respond with some actual things that make sense from either a mathematical, game design, or logistical standpoint.

 

 

Never once did I say I was opposed to buffs. On the contrary I (correctly) believe that you CANNOT balance a game effectively without buffs and nerfs no matter how small or big.

[Kagumin]

the funnier thing is, in your 12 days of playing warframe, you picked MY post to single out? why? because the word brakk was in it? if you'd bothered to read PAST that word instead of blowing it off because i happened to place the name of a weapon YOU DONT EVEN OWN in my post as an example of nerfing a weapon does not increase the usefulness of another?

 

good try rookie, see you at practice.

 

Discriminating based on playtime.

Obviously this is what the community should be made of, toxic and entitled elitists who don't need no nerfs.

[Armored-raven]

we've just had 3 buffs today grakata tigris and bolto

[letir]

we've just had 3 buffs today grakata tigris and bolto

But Slash damage now sucks, so Tigris going into oblivion...

[Armored-raven]

But Slash damage now sucks, so Tigris going into oblivion...

 

slash works in infested really well so I don't see what the issue is

[LeAtlas]

i... want... to... use my burston in high level missions

[Brahmastra]

Damage 1.0 needed nerfs. Damage 2.0 needs buffs.

 

I understand that the Acrid and the Brakk were OP. But that's not a reason to make a clan tech weapon pure poop. Same goes for a ton of other weapons that are UP.