Damage 2.0 - New System, Old Problems

[RAZORLIGHT]

DE do you even test what you are releasing?

 

damage 2.0 is WORSE than 1.0  and with every change you make it even more worse

 

seriously, revert all changes back and rework it once again

 

damage 2.0 and the horrendous low exp rates are killing all the fun i had with Warframe

Edited December 13, 2013 by RAZORLIGHT

[panzerk]

Perhaps you should consider being a tad more constructive. Perhaps you should state your exact problems with dmg 2.0 as opposed to 1.0.

 

Instead of wasting peoples time and serverspace with your egocentric venting.

[asiveni]

Like Panzer said.

[Dracosaber]

Yeah....damage 2.0 is a great upgrade from damage 1.0...

 

They are still tweaking and working on it from our feedback, so perhaps be constructive instead of just whining. It will help them much more than just complaining. 

[RAZORLIGHT]

Damage 2.0 doesnt make sense at all

the last change for example

Slash became obsolete.... do i have to say more?

Yeah....damage 2.0 is a great upgrade from damage 1.0...

They are still tweaking and working on it from our feedback, so perhaps be constructive instead of just whining. It will help them much more than just complaining.

yeah great tweaking, making the system more unlogic and slash obsolete!

guys i am not the developer, i dont have to make my product good

there are enough good posts about the damage 2.0 but DE`s feedback is non existant so i had to write something

Edited December 13, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo
removed offensive remarks

[Skynin]

Not WORSE. BETTER!

Now you know, how and why you should use exactly this weapon and elements. Happy to see logic in this system, Damage 2.0 just a blast, one of the best things in the history of Warframe.

[_Absolom_]

I bet he's just mad because his Soma can't slaughter everything anymore.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo
removed offensive remarks

[RAZORLIGHT]

Not WORSE. BETTER!

Now you know, how and why you should use exactly this weapon and elements. Happy to see logic in this system, Damage 2.0 just a blast, one of the best things in the history of Warframe.

Slash isnt effective against infested

Gas is most effective against infested (toxic ancients/crawlers anyone?)

Blast (Heat and cold) not effective against armor

PURE LOGIC

I bet he's just mad because his Soma can't slaughter everything anymore.

totally.... NOT

i barely played some before the patch and after

powercreeps are boring

Edited December 13, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo
removed offensive remarks

[Hybridon]

I bet he's just mad because his Soma can't slaughter everything anymore.

Mine still does, you just have to slap in the best mods, especially with the changes to Infested, its even easier as it has a high Impact and Puncture, both key to kill all 3 factions now :)

[Skynin]

Slash isnt effective against infested

Gas is most effective against infested (toxic ancients/crawlers anyone?)

Blast (Heat and cold) not effective against armor

PURE LOGIC

 

Yes it is. Difficult to understand something that you know nothing about? Try school, that can help alot.

[Kaskardious]

well .....  I  ....am ...confused . I had just gotten my head around the new damage 2.0 system which sure wasn't "perfect" ( and in a game that's still in BETA phase no one can complain there) but now with these new changes made today it all seems totally Illogical . Though I DO agree with the idea behind needing a different setup of mods to take out each of the 3 types of enemies Corpus, Grineer, Infested.

So from the start - beginning with the basic stats, btw I cant be arsed filling in previous values.

 

Impact +50% shields, -25% flesh, +25 infested= is most effective on Shields = this sort of makes sense when you think about it a massive impact SHOULD reduce shield energy fastest. 

 

Puncture  -25% shields, +50% armour, -25% infested, +25% robotic= is most effective on Armour = this also makes perfect sense.

 

Slash -25% armour, +25% flesh, -25% robotic Infested bonus is eliminated= is most effective on Health/Flesh = as above perfectly logical and makes sense. but WOW ....talked about nerfed! and why are infested now resistant ?

 

So far ...OK...I guess at least its all basically even.

 

Cold (new): +25% shields

Electric (new): -25% flesh, -25% infected, +25% robotic

Heat (new): -25% shields, -25% armor, +25% flesh

 

NOW the logic problems start to jump out from my point of view . Realistically Electric should be weak against shields but strong VS everything else especially robotics which (I KNOW) would unbalance the element and make it too powerful in respect to Heat and Cold.

 

Toxin (new): +25% armour, +25% infested, -25% robotic. Makes sense against the infested but .....toxins=poisons VS Armour ...is    Strong ???

Blast (new): +25% shields, -25% armour, 75% robotic. Blast=Explosions Strong VS shields weak VS armour ? (isn't that just backwards ?)

Corrosive (new): +75% armour, -25% flesh. Well if its strong enough to Corrode metal/ceramics it should liquefy flesh pretty darn quickly!

Gas (new): -75% armour, +75% flesh, +25% infested, -75% robotic. Well this one makes perfect sense.

Magnetic (new): +75% shields, +25% armour, -75% flesh, -75% infested. This makes sense too.

Radiation (new): -25% shield, +75% infested, +25% robotic. Logical up until you realise it has no extra effect on flesh but for some bizzare reason has an extra effect against robotics.

Viral (new): -75% shield, +25% flesh, -25% infested, -25% robotic. Again makes sense.

 

NOW call me crazy but what I would of EXPECTED would of been something like..

 

Toxin +50% VS Health/Flesh/, -50% VS Shields/Robotics.

Blast +50% VS Armour/Flesh, -75% VS Shields   0% change VS Robotics.

Corrosive +50% VS armour, +25% VS Flesh, +25% VS Robotics, -75% VS shields.

Gas -50% VS Shields/Armour/Robotics, + 75% VS Flesh.

Magnetic +50% VS Robotics/Shields, +25% VS Armour, -50% VS Flesh.

Radiation +50% VS Flesh,+25% VS Armour,-75% Shields, 0% VS Robotics.

Viral - 25% VS Shields/Armour/Robotics, +25% VS Health ....maybe, +50% VS Infested (unless you want to argue that Infested ARE a virus in which case you would have to say something like -50% VS Infested)

 

Thanks to NegimaSonic for his Advanced table of changes to all the elements. Top work there m8.

 

Im not nesecarily advocating the above changes I just think they would make logical sense and a better basis for even damage distributions. Looking forward to hearing peoples feedback !

Edited December 13, 2013 by Kaskardious

[Lost_Cartographer]

The concept of 13 elements (3 bein physical) is sound. The problem is the delivery. It's all still damage in the end, just damage with various amounts of mitigation. The bad part about 2.0 is that it took away the aspect of elements that MADE them feel like elemental damage: the status effects. Now they're on a typically low proc chance, and the proc is more often than not underwhelming.

 

Fire and slash are a DoT... except they're super weak DoT's. Gas is basically just an AoE hit, like electricity. Cold, impact, and blast all serve as a crowd control. Puncture just weakens damage... an unnoticeable amount. Magnetic is only seemingly good at taking out shields. Radiation is supposed to cause targets to shoot at their allies, though I've never really seen this in action. I forget what toxic and infection do entirely.

 

If I had control, I'd make procs the main point of 2.0, and damage be a part of those procs.

 

Slash = Heavy DoT.

Impact = Stagger.

Puncture = Punch Through.

 

Fire = DoT that can spread to adjacent enemies.

Cold = Slow. 

Electricity = Chain jumps.

Toxic = Minor increase to incoming damage.

 

Gas = AoE that increases chance and damage of status procs and provides/increases AoE on elemental procs against targets with the gas debuff.

Radiation = Target allies.

Magnetic = Damage increased based on number of adjacent enemies.

Corrosion = Moderately reduces shields/armor of target.

Blast = Knock Down.

Infection = Moderately reduces health of a target.

 

Of course, enemies would have resistances to the damage from procs and the chance at a proc. Magnetic still won't be of much use against infested, for example, despite being the most likely faction to bunch up. However, someone might be inclined to haul along gas and magnetic when facing Grineer and Corpus if they know they'll be dealing with situations where units naturally cluster. But then, Corrosion/infection and blast/radiation might not be such a bad setup for engaging tougher, singular Grineer/Corpus units. The effect of Gas is to squarely encourage team play and organized set ups with some personal benefits as well.

 

Right now, my elemental setup is done to min-max damage output with no concern for the potential status effects of these elemental types because I just don't see them having any influence on any single firefight except maybe corrosion or magnetic on their respective targets... unfortunately since these are natural choices for the Grineer and Corpus respectively, that effect is negligible in my mind.

 

To add, I feel DE also needs to recognize the current setup allows for four types of weapons:

 

Standard damage hoses. Higher base damage, lower crit or status rates.

Crit damage gamblers. Lower base damage, higher crit and lower status rates.

Status pounders. Lower base damage, lower crit but higher status rates.

Utilitarian.  See: Grenade launcher and maybe the bows.

 

For the most part, weapons tend to fall under the first two categories, mostly the first. This game could stand to have weapons that rely heavily on status procs akin to how the Soma relies on critical hits to do formidable damage. Look into some mods to tweak for balance (frost on handguns does less damage than fire or electricity on handguns for example, values like these should be even across the board) and maybe this game can inspire some REAL choices mod selection, as opposed to min-maxing damage with little regard to what a mod's effect is otherwise.

 

EDIT:  Dear lord, the forums have it in for me today...

Edited December 13, 2013 by Littleman88