2 Pellets Per Shell On The Tigris?

[Vaskadar]

It's a shotgun! Why should its pellet count be so low? It should at least be 4x that amount, with total damage remaining unchanged... With the way it works right now, it's basically a split slug.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Gryphticon]

But doesn't changing the pellet count change anything? The dmg is the same, the only thing is that there will be more pellets spread in the cone of fire.

[Onae]

But doesn't changing the pellet count change anything? The dmg is the same, the only thing is that there will be more pellets spread in the cone of fire.

Because shotguns are famous for having that wide cone of fire, and without its boring and lackluster. The tigris is a glorified burston, and If we wanted another burston we would of asked for one.

[Malfeitor]

But doesn't changing the pellet count change anything? The dmg is the same, the only thing is that there will be more pellets spread in the cone of fire.

The thing is that this is categorized as a shotgun. As such it suffers from a number of disadvantages like damage fall-off over distance, bad accuracy and less impressive mods (hornet strike doing 220 % extra damage for secondaries and serration doing 165 % extra damage while point blank only does 90%).

I honestly don't know how status chance is calculated on shotguns but if it's calculated per pellet instead of per bullets then this "shotgun's" status chance of 15% is less impressive than say sobek's 15%.

[Zyrusticae]

Wait, WHAT?

 

It used to be four!

 

WHY WOULD YOU REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PELLETS ON A DOUBLE-BARRELED SHOTGUN!? 

 

THERE IS NO EXCUSE! STOP MAKING "SHOTGUNS" WITH LOW PELLET COUNTS, THESE AREN'T SHOTGUNS, THEY'RE SPLIT-CHAMBER RIFLES! GIVE IT 10 OR MORE PELLETS PER SHELL DAMMIT, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SHOTGUN RAARRRRRRRGH

 

 (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

[Malfeitor]

Wow...

I thought I must have hallucinated or that some bug had occured but when I bought this shotgun and started using it, I noticed this aswell.

Just tested it out and you're right! 2 pellets per shot. This is not a shotgun. This is not a scattergun.

I don't mean to sound like a whiner or a self-entitled prick but honestly DE I think you have to fix or recategorize (some people bought this with plat expecting a shotgun). This is a rifle with defaulted split chamber. It's exactly as much a shotgun as the kraken with barrel diffusion.

Sorry, if this offended any hard-working DE.

I was wrong.

I tested it again. It IS 4 pellets. Just very tight cone.

4 pellets per shot it is.

[Malfeitor]

However.

The double shot doesn't seem to be double. 4x2 = 8 right? Nope.

Wasted almost all my ammo testing this. I don't want to cry wolf again but I think the "double shot" fires off 5 pellets. Could someone else help me confirm this?

IF this is the case then there is still a problem with the pellet count.

[Paradoxbomb]

I still find it funny that out of all the complaints about this gun, from the low pellet count, to the tight spread, to the grueling reload speed, and the fact that this was being sold as an anti-infested weapon, DE chose to buff only the damage. Literally the one factor that was at least decent, and that's it. I think DE needs to re-relook at the Tigris and change it's actual utility to suit the faction it's designed to specialize against. A ton of pellets to douse a crowd in lead would be a nice start.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[NalkorRN]

Because shotguns are famous for having that wide cone of fire, and without its boring and lackluster. The tigris is a glorified burston, and If we wanted another burston we would of asked for one.

Pretty sure shotguns might be famous for that, but it doesn't mean they are. Sure if you fire birdshot into the sky, but most shotguns keep their pellet grouping nice and tight to make killing much easier. Take a modern military combat shotgun, load it up with 00 Shot, not buckshot, there's a difference in pellet count and size, and you can easily hit a target up to 50 meters or more away with most or all of the pellets hitting and not losing any power. Blame Hollywood and most video games for getting it all wrong.

[Vaskadar]

Pretty sure shotguns might be famous for that, but it doesn't mean they are. Sure if you fire birdshot into the sky, but most shotguns keep their pellet grouping nice and tight to make killing much easier. Take a modern military combat shotgun, load it up with 00 Shot, not buckshot, there's a difference in pellet count and size, and you can easily hit a target up to 50 meters or more away with most or all of the pellets hitting and not losing any power. Blame Hollywood and most video games for getting it all wrong.

 

But most don't have only two pellets per shell.

[metalbird]

Maybe DE accidentally loaded tigris with beanbag shells and thats why we only see 1 or 2 pellets

[Brimir]

Are you guys going by visible impacts? Because DE made a stupid change way back which reduced the number of visual shells (not actual shells) for Shotguns.

[Malfeitor]

But most don't have only two pellets per shell.

It's not 2 it's 4 per shot.

 

Are you guys going by visible impacts? Because DE made a stupid change way back which reduced the number of visual shells (not actual shells) for Shotguns.

That depends what you mean. When I tested it I tried many different surfaces. The best one I could find seemed to be a stone on the exterminate mission of phobos.

On that stone I could count 4 pellets per shot for the special fire mechanic and 5 for the "double shot" aka when you just tap the mouse key.

The wiki also states it's 4-5 per shot.

However if by impact you mean bullet holes and if that has been reduced I guess there is no way to know for sure.

[Tsukinoki]

@Malfeitor

They do reduce the bullet holes and impact graphics so that it is hard to tell how many pellets your gun is firing.

The brakk for example should have 10 pellets, 20 with 100% multishot. Yet when I fire a brakk with 100% multishot it sure looks like a lot less than 20 pellets hit the enemies I'm aiming at, even at point blank range. Same with walls.

So the tigris is probably firing 4-5 pellets per shot, for a total of 8 to 10 for both shots, but with how they reduce the impact graphics and such it doesn't look like it is.

[Malfeitor]

@Malfeitor

They do reduce the bullet holes and impact graphics so that it is hard to tell how many pellets your gun is firing.

The brakk for example should have 10 pellets, 20 with 100% multishot. Yet when I fire a brakk with 100% multishot it sure looks like a lot less than 20 pellets hit the enemies I'm aiming at, even at point blank range. Same with walls.

So the tigris is probably firing 4-5 pellets per shot, for a total of 8 to 10 for both shots, but with how they reduce the impact graphics and such it doesn't look like it is.

Ok. But do they do this even for the bullet holes it leaves on walls and other map tiles? Cause you are definetly right about the reduced amount of visual damage numbers on enemies.

Also, I'm no longer disputing the 4 pellet/shot with the "single shot" but the 8 pellet/shot "double shot". I wasted pretty much all my ammo (which is alot considering it's a 2 shot, shotgun) and not once did the bullet holes exceed 5 with the double shot.

I do believe you though. =)

Edited December 17, 2013 by Malfeitor

[Tsukinoki]

@Malfeitor

I have seen it reduce the number of bullet holes, quite often. Again its most noticeable with the brakk or even the boar/strun. You will find that there are usually far less bullet holes than there should be, even accounting for a tight spread on the wall.

[Malfeitor]

@Malfeitor

I have seen it reduce the number of bullet holes, quite often. Again its most noticeable with the brakk or even the boar/strun. You will find that there are usually far less bullet holes than there should be, even accounting for a tight spread on the wall.

Ok, thanks ^^

[Tsukinoki]

@Malfeitor

I can kinda see why they did it: less decals to track usually equals better performance.

The issue is that it brings up issues like this where its hard to verify pellet count and the like.

So its a bit of a wash.

Maybe they should include an option for the amount of bullet decals to allow at any one time like other games do...

[Vaskadar]

I was doing a test with fully maxed Hell's chamber on some lower-level mobs and only 4 numbers would show up per shot (SINGLE NOT DOUBLE SHOT) at point blank. If you miss one pellet (which I can almost guarantee you will if you're not very accurate), you're losing out hugely on damage potential. This is the kind of weapon that should have 10 pellets per shell as opposed to two. Hell's Chamber should drastically increase the pellet density on the weapon to make it useful against infested and the like.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Definitegj]

I was doing a test with fully maxed Hell's chamber on some lower-level mobs and only 4 numbers would show up per shot (SINGLE NOT DOUBLE SHOT) at point blank. If you miss one pellet (which I can almost guarantee you will if you're not very accurate), you're losing out hugely on damage potential. This is the kind of weapon that should have 10 pellets per shell as opposed to two. Hell's Chamber should drastically increase the pellet density on the weapon to make it useful against infested and the like.

 

Because is lower level mobs, the mob already dead by the 4th pellets. Rest of the pellets damage won't be shown. Try it on boss if you want to see all the pellets number.

[Taranis49]

I still find it funny that out of all the complaints about this gun, from the low pellet count, to the tight spread, to the grueling reload speed, and the fact that this was being sold as an anti-infested weapon, DE chose to buff only the damage. Literally the one factor that was at least decent, and that's it. I think DE needs to re-relook at the Tigris and change it's actual utility to suit the faction it's designed to specialize against. A ton of pellet to douse a crowd in lead pellets would be a nice start.

 

Very much this. The issue with the weapon was never the raw damage it did against its target faction, it's how it applies that damage. I could give two figs if the enemy I hit is 200% more dead, it's the enemy next to him that's still 100% alive that's the problem.

 

For the Tigris to really be a viable anti-infested weapon, it needs to hit enemies in an arc in front of it. Killing one or two enemies in a pack of 20 that's barreling down on you very much places it in the useless catergory at the moment.

 

Pretty sure shotguns might be famous for that, but it doesn't mean they are. Sure if you fire birdshot into the sky, but most shotguns keep their pellet grouping nice and tight to make killing much easier. Take a modern military combat shotgun, load it up with 00 Shot, not buckshot, there's a difference in pellet count and size, and you can easily hit a target up to 50 meters or more away with most or all of the pellets hitting and not losing any power. Blame Hollywood and most video games for getting it all wrong.

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration, e.g. while the Mossberg 500 series (including the 590A1 in service) might have a "maximum" range of 50m for shot, its effective range is typically pegged at about 40m.

 

It's not all that uncommon for pistols to actually have greater effective ranges than shotguns do.

 

Granted, I tend not to be bothered too much with the realism aspect, what with silliness like lasers and electricity having noticeable travel times over 100m. :-P

Edited December 18, 2013 by Taranis49

[NalkorRN]

Very much this. The issue with the weapon was never the raw damage it did against its target faction, it's how it applies that damage. I could give two figs if the enemy I hit is 200% more dead, it's the enemy next to him that's still 100% alive that's the problem.

 

For the Tigris to really be a viable anti-infested weapon, it needs to hit enemies in an arc in front of it. Killing one or two enemies in a pack of 20 that's barreling down on you very much places it in the useless catergory at the moment.

 

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration, e.g. while the Mossberg 500 series (including the 590A1 in service) might have a "maximum" range of 50m for shot, its effective range is typically pegged at about 40m.

 

It's not all that uncommon for pistols to actually have greater effective ranges than shotguns do.

 

Granted, I tend not to be bothered too much with the realism aspect, what with silliness like lasers and electricity having noticeable travel times over 100m. :-P

Keep in mind, the 10-20 meters in-game feels much, much shorter than an actual 1--20 meters.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I was doing a test with fully maxed Hell's chamber on some lower-level mobs and only 4 numbers would show up per shot (SINGLE NOT DOUBLE SHOT) at point blank. If you miss one pellet (which I can almost guarantee you will if you're not very accurate), you're losing out hugely on damage potential. This is the kind of weapon that should have 10 pellets per shell as opposed to two. Hell's Chamber should drastically increase the pellet density on the weapon to make it useful against infested and the like.

 

Because of the limited pellet count, I use it less as a shotgun, and more as a very innaccurate cannon. I can down 1 infested in a horde if I'm lucky, then the rest dogpile me. I suppose it'd be better with punch-through, but still.

[Vaskadar]

With a shotgun like this, yeah. It's a split-slug shotgun, basically. If it were 2-bore, then it'd be a hilarious cannon, but that's a different story. 2-bore shotgun gauge is a massive 'shell' if you can call it that and can break a whole wall of clay pigeons easily. I was kinda hoping that they wouldn't go down the damage route and would have instead gone down the versatility route with the Tigris, putting a much wider, and much denser spread on the weapon.