Oberon Is Not A Paladin. He Is A Tactician!

[Arlayn]

Paladin feels like a very wrong word to have used for him now that I have had time to play as him... forma him, and the likes...

 

He works more like a tactical advisor, or a sergeant of a squad. He leads using special abilities that give his allies advantage if used correctly.

 

He is not a healer.

He is not a press 4 kill all.

He is not a defender.

He is not a press 1 knock stuff around kind of guy.

 

He is not a Jack of all trades either.

 

For example lets start with his 1st ability Smite. Does it knock stuff down violently like Soul punch? no. Does it set things ablaze like ember? no. Does it arc around and kill millions of enemies at once? no. What does it do? It does damage directly to an enemy and if in a small space with other enemies will create projectiles that bounce all over the room killing everyone in it. Good for taking out enemies coming through a small closed narrow space. Combined with Supra, or other narrow space killing weapons it is perfect for the maneuver of funneling enemies into you, and wiping them all out.

 

2nd ability Hallowed Ground. A trail of fire that can be used to cover paths such as the ones in the Corpus ship defense mission. Could even be used for the funneling tactic to set ablaze to a path enemies are forced to cross to reach you. Good for infested if properly modded with mods like max focus, and blinded rage, and several other mods to make it more convenient.

 

3rd ability renewal. A healing ability that can heal an ally anywhere on the map. As it slowly moves across the map searching for allies. You can run from this heal, but it will follow you everywhere, but if you get in a bad spot where enemies are hitting you, and causing great damage. Just stop and let the heal take hold. The regenerative properties quickly gives you health so you can take cover safely. It is also quite cheap for a tactical, and convenient heal. It may not be as massive, or as powerful has Trinities blessing, but has far better range, and tactical use to be saved by a player and used when needed. So the Oberon isn't spamming this ability constantly, and standing near you in the danger zone.

 

4th Ability Reckoning. A special kind of ability with not a lot of damage if you attempt using this in high tier areas. Eventually enemies become so strong that enemies are either near death, or barely hurt by it? What do you do then? Organized combat! Have your allies weaken the enemies down to a calculated amount you know the reckoning will kill them. Then leap out into the gunfire and unleash reckoning upon your enemies wiping them out, and getting your allies health orbs. Could even be used alone by equipping AOE weapons such as ignis, embolist, penta, or even Ogris. By doing damage the enemies become weak enough for reckoning to take hold of them. Of course healing orbs isn't the only use. It can be used to hold enemies temporarily, and knock them down. So even if they don't die enemies like heavy units who use knock down abilities can be mowed down while they are still laying on the ground.

 

As demonstrated by Nyx it is not about how powerful the ability is. It is about how it can be used to manipulate the battlefield towards victory.

[Porn]

Blessing has infinite range.

[Arlayn]

Blessing has infinite range.

Tell that to the deaths of millions of Tenno in the void...

 

edit: I tried it... Trinity will not reach with her blessing if you stand at extraction, and heal someone standing at the beginning. Either its a bug, or lag but it never happens...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Arlayn

[TankHunter678]

Tell that to the deaths of millions of Tenno in the void...

 

edit: I tried it... Trinity will not reach with her blessing if you stand at extraction, and heal someone standing at the beginning. Either its a bug, or lag but it never happens...

Which in realistic scenarios, your allies are never going to be far enough away from you for that to happen. As the trinity is going to be staying within the exp share range at least at all times.

[VoidPunch]

What would you consider a Paladin do?

[Arlayn]

What would you consider a Paladin do?

More paladin like tactics... wider range of healing, or wider range of fire abilities not a trail of fire but like energy beam waves of fire or focused flux rifle energy beam waves. I mean its a friggin paladin it should have some epic melee abilities that make you go oh damn a keeper of balance is here! A champion of the Tenno! A true warrior! a Hero! Something even Excalibur looks to as a role model, someone who puts even trinity in awe. Oberon is not a paladin, he is definitely a tactician.

[LukeAura]

Paladin feels like a very wrong word to have used for him now that I have had time to play as him... forma him, and the likes...

 

He works more like a tactical advisor, or a sergeant of a squad. He leads using special abilities that give his allies advantage if used correctly.

 

He is not a healer.

He is not a press 4 kill all.

He is not a defender.

He is not a press 1 knock stuff around kind of guy.

 

He is not a Jack of all trades either.

 

For example lets start with his 1st ability Smite. Does it knock stuff down violently like Soul punch? no. Does it set things ablaze like ember? no. Does it arc around and kill millions of enemies at once? no. What does it do? It does damage directly to an enemy and if in a small space with other enemies will create projectiles that bounce all over the room killing everyone in it. Good for taking out enemies coming through a small closed narrow space. Combined with Supra, or other narrow space killing weapons it is perfect for the maneuver of funneling enemies into you, and wiping them all out.

 

2nd ability Hallowed Ground. A trail of fire that can be used to cover paths such as the ones in the Corpus ship defense mission. Could even be used for the funneling tactic to set ablaze to a path enemies are forced to cross to reach you. Good for infested if properly modded with mods like max focus, and blinded rage, and several other mods to make it more convenient.

 

3rd ability renewal. A healing ability that can heal an ally anywhere on the map. As it slowly moves across the map searching for allies. You can run from this heal, but it will follow you everywhere, but if you get in a bad spot where enemies are hitting you, and causing great damage. Just stop and let the heal take hold. The regenerative properties quickly gives you health so you can take cover safely. It is also quite cheap for a tactical, and convenient heal. It may not be as massive, or as powerful has Trinities blessing, but has far better range, and tactical use to be saved by a player and used when needed. So the Oberon isn't spamming this ability constantly, and standing near you in the danger zone.

 

4th Ability Reckoning. A special kind of ability with not a lot of damage if you attempt using this in high tier areas. Eventually enemies become so strong that enemies are either near death, or barely hurt by it? What do you do then? Organized combat! Have your allies weaken the enemies down to a calculated amount you know the reckoning will kill them. Then leap out into the gunfire and unleash reckoning upon your enemies wiping them out, and getting your allies health orbs. Could even be used alone by equipping AOE weapons such as ignis, embolist, penta, or even Ogris. By doing damage the enemies become weak enough for reckoning to take hold of them. Of course healing orbs isn't the only use. It can be used to hold enemies temporarily, and knock them down. So even if they don't die enemies like heavy units who use knock down abilities can be mowed down while they are still laying on the ground.

 

As demonstrated by Nyx it is not about how powerful the ability is. It is about how it can be used to manipulate the battlefield towards victory.

1. So in tight spaces it becomes better than Soul Punch? And most of the maptiles out there are too open. And even then it requires massive spamming to kill things outside the initial hit. Requiring 2 or 3 particles to hit a foe at max rank for it to kill anything at about enemy level 5, which is very unlikely to happen given the way angles are set up on maps. 

2. Damage output is weak. Killing enemies is faster and safer than letting them run through it. Setting it up far away from wherever you intend to hold up and letting enemies run through it first on their way to you means they'll run out of it before taking any serious damage. 

3. Can't comment, don't use it. 

4. It's an ult, it does damage, ccs for a short time, has a unique efffect. Rather uninspired but it gets the job done. 

Ultimately the comparison between abilities and weapon is whether the ability is better to use over a weapon. In most situations his abilities don't deal enough multi target damage, or over a wide enough area that using a Shotgun, high RoF rifle or explosive weapon won't cover. 

 

[Arlayn]

Which in realistic scenarios, your allies are never going to be far enough away from you for that to happen. As the trinity is going to be staying within the exp share range at least at all times.

Trinity can be in the next room and do nothing... seriously During survival, or defense Trinity could be on the opposite side of the room, and her blessing wouldn't reach me while I am being massacred. My health drops so fast its not even funny. Its like why rely on a trinity if my health is still dropping fast. I rather rely on quick thinking.

[Arlayn]

1. So in tight spaces it becomes better than Soul Punch? And most of the maptiles out there are too open. And even then it requires massive spamming to kill things outside the initial hit. Requiring 2 or 3 particles to hit a foe at max rank for it to kill anything at about enemy level 5, which is very unlikely to happen given the way angles are set up on maps. 

2. Damage output is weak. Killing enemies is faster and safer than letting them run through it. Setting it up far away from wherever you intend to hold up and letting enemies run through it first on their way to you means they'll run out of it before taking any serious damage. 

3. Can't comment, don't use it. 

4. It's an ult, it does damage, ccs for a short time, has a unique efffect. Rather uninspired but it gets the job done. 

Ultimately the comparison between abilities and weapon is whether the ability is better to use over a weapon. In most situations his abilities don't deal enough multi target damage, or over a wide enough area that using a Shotgun, high RoF rifle or explosive weapon won't cover. 

 

1, and 2 are meant to be weak. I never said it knocks people around, or kills people. It weakens them, and eventually leads to their death. Not everyone has a good weapon for killing people. That extra damage on the way slowly weakening an enemy is just what is needed. Plus allows people like me to level my melee weapons. Smite first, and then run up and smack him with a melee weapon. Good combo for leveling melee. Same with the fire. Wait for them to cross, and then smack them around with melee, or shoot them if they are a real threat. Damage is damage no matter what...

 

That is why is more tactical. His abilities don't really kill anyone... they sometimes do if health is low enough, or low level area, but in the end he is more tactical in use rather than I am a mighty Paladin screw everyone... with Trinity babes all over his legs, and Excalibur asking for lessons on how to be a True Tenno... if those two things were happening... Oberon would be a paladin.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Arlayn

[VoidPunch]

More paladin like tactics... wider range of healing, or wider range of fire abilities not a trail of fire but like energy beam waves of fire or focused flux rifle energy beam waves. I mean its a friggin paladin it should have some epic melee abilities that make you go oh damn a keeper of balance is here! A champion of the Tenno! A true warrior! a Hero! Something even Excalibur looks to as a role model, someone who puts even trinity in awe. Oberon is not a paladin, he is definitely a tactician.

He has to also feel original and not a rip off or better version of other frames. Melee focus is valkyr and having a better healing would make trinity pretty useless considering she has no offense and the oberon does. Your idea of a paladin is too vague to justify your stance on him not being a paladin. But to me he feels like a guardian which is close enough to a paladin imo.

[Porn]

Tell that to the deaths of millions of Tenno in the void...

edit: I tried it... Trinity will not reach with her blessing if you stand at extraction, and heal someone standing at the beginning. Either its a bug, or lag but it never happens...

It should work, so either bug or lag.

I've stayed an hour at a Tower III Survival by spamming Blessing; regardless of where allies were, it worked.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Porn

[Arlayn]

He has to also feel original and not a rip off or better version of other frames. Melee focus is valkyr and having a better healing would make trinity pretty useless considering she has no offense and the oberon does. Your idea of a paladin is too vague to justify your stance on him not being a paladin. But to me he feels like a guardian which is close enough to a paladin imo.

DE clearly stated he is a symbol of what it means to uphold balance. I don't see this happening. I see a tactical character that could easily manipulate the outcome of battle. Paladin wouldn't be a rip off if he were more religiously seeking balance, and stronger. He should be able tear a rift in the void, and call down a rain of fire from another celestial star else where in the Void-verse. He should be able to revive fallen allies, he should be able unleash unimaginable powers upon his foes such as waves of fire covering the land before his eyes, The void itself bending to his will as he call to it, and with its righteous fury bring the very terror of the Void itself upon his foes! He should be better as a true upholder of the Tenno way. A teacher, a Master...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Arlayn

[TankHunter678]

What would you consider a Paladin do?

A "Sanctuary" ability to act as a inverse to Frost's Snowglobe: It blocks melee from entering its field. A single target "Purification" ability that heals the targeted ally (or the caster himself if no ally is targeted) and knocks back and damages any nearby enemies around the target. A buff spell that gives the frame's Melee weapon "Armor Break" allowing it to temporarily reduce the armor of enemies struck by it to 0. With the ult being "Heaven's Fury" that causes swords of light to rain down from the sky impaling enemies, damaging and stunning them for a short time.

 

I generally see a Paladin as being your heavy melee guy blessed by the gods who exists to crush and purge the filth of the world. A pity what we got is nothing like that.

 

Which that design would force the Infested to be updated with more ranged units. Which they sorely need to increase difficulty.

[LukeAura]

1, and 2 are meant to be weak. I never said it knocks people around, or kills people. It weakens them, and eventually leads to their death. Not everyone has a good weapon for killing people. That extra damage on the way slowly weakening an enemy is just what is needed. Plus allows people like me to level my melee weapons. Smite first, and then run up and smack him with a melee weapon. Good combo for leveling melee. Same with the fire. Wait for them to cross, and then smack them around with melee, or shoot them if they are a real threat. Damage is damage no matter what...

 

That is why is more tactical. His abilities don't really kill anyone... they sometimes do if health is low enough, or low level area, but in the end he is more tactical in use rather than I am a mighty Paladin screw everyone... with Trinity babes all over his legs, and Excalibur asking for lessons on how to be a True Tenno... if those two things were happening... Oberon would be a paladin.

At levels where his damage will contribute to anything meaningful to weakening enemies, guns will always be vastly more effective at killing or weakening enemies. It takes a whole second before Hallowed ground actually damages anything.

Hallowed ground is no Venom, hell, it's not even a fireblast.

Abilities that don't kill anyone at even low levels at a decent speed or don't provide utility is useless. 

[Arlayn]

A "Sanctuary" ability to act as a inverse to Frost's Snowglobe: It blocks melee from entering its field. A single target "Purification" ability that heals the targeted ally (or the caster himself if no ally is targeted) and knocks back and damages any nearby enemies around the target. A buff spell that gives the frame's Melee weapon "Armor Break" allowing it to temporarily reduce the armor of enemies struck by it to 0. With the ult being "Heaven's Fury" that causes swords of light to rain down from the sky impaling enemies, damaging and stunning them for a short time.

 

I generally see a Paladin as being your heavy melee guy blessed by the gods who exists to crush and purge the filth of the world. A pity what we got is nothing like that.

 

Which that design would force the Infested to be updated with more ranged units. Which they sorely need to increase difficulty.

speaking of purification. Why doesn't his healing ability renewal cancel out all status effects as well? Like bleeding.

 

edit: simple answer... he is not a paladin...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Arlayn

[Renan.Ruivo]

He is not a defender.

 

SilverBones claims that Oberon is a MD god. And i'm not one to argue with him, when the man is right the man is right.

[Arlayn]

SilverBones claims that Oberon is a MD god. And i'm not one to argue with him, when the man is right the man is right.

Rhino, Nekros, and Frost are MD gods... Oberon is just an aid to all that chaos as the tactical hero.

[N7Arthur]

Trinity can be in the next room and do nothing... seriously During survival, or defense Trinity could be on the opposite side of the room, and her blessing wouldn't reach me while I am being massacred. My health drops so fast its not even funny. Its like why rely on a trinity if my health is still dropping fast. I rather rely on quick thinking.

I'm not sure what kind of Trinities you have been playing with, but a good one can keep her team invincible forever. Don't hate a frame because people are using it improperly.

[TankHunter678]

Trinity can be in the next room and do nothing... seriously During survival, or defense Trinity could be on the opposite side of the room, and her blessing wouldn't reach me while I am being massacred. My health drops so fast its not even funny. Its like why rely on a trinity if my health is still dropping fast. I rather rely on quick thinking.

Never had this happen. Even in larger void runs with all the huge rooms I still get Trinity's blessing regardless of where I am.

 

You do realize that Blessing has a cast delay of 1.6 seconds? It require pre-emptive use. If your HP is seriously dropping fast enough that a Trinity cannot use Blessing to save you then clearly you threw yourself at the enemy in a stupid manner.

 

And you know what, if you are in that kind of situation a 200 HP heal from oberon over 10 seconds is not going to save you, especially not with how slow the projectile moves. Further, the projectile will not even spawn nor target you if you are not injured in the first place. While Blessing will give you invulnerability regardless and if your shields are damaged or empty Blessing will restore it to max.

[Arlayn]

I'm not sure what kind of Trinities you have been playing with, but a good one can keep her team invincible forever. Don't hate a frame because people are using it improperly.

I would still rely on quick thinking even if I met a mythical pro-trinity. They must be extremely rare...

 

 

Never had this happen. Even in larger void runs with all the huge rooms I still get Trinity's blessing regardless of where I am.

 

You do realize that Blessing has a cast delay of 1.6 seconds? It require pre-emptive use. If your HP is seriously dropping fast enough that a Trinity cannot use Blessing to save you then clearly you threw yourself at the enemy in a stupid manner.

 

And you know what, if you are in that kind of situation a 200 HP heal from oberon over 10 seconds is not going to save you, especially not with how slow the projectile moves. Further, the projectile will not even spawn nor target you if you are not injured in the first place. While Blessing will give you invulnerability regardless and if your shields are damaged or empty Blessing will restore it to max.

actually... the renewal will just follow you... Just run from it, and yeah it will spawn if you are not injured I have seen it personally because I use it all the time, but will not give you an aura if your unharmed. Just cast, and have your allies run from it as far as possible. The renewal fairy will follow them, and when they do get hurt it will help them. It has tactical value, it may not be as strong as Blessing, but can be manipulated on the battlefield. Instead of the very slow blessing that apparently has issues in a lagging client.

[TenkoTenko]

Trinity can be in the next room and do nothing... seriously During survival, or defense Trinity could be on the opposite side of the room, and her blessing wouldn't reach me while I am being massacred. My health drops so fast its not even funny. Its like why rely on a trinity if my health is still dropping fast. I rather rely on quick thinking.

 That means the Trinities that you've been playing with are all merely lobster hatchlings. It's not that their Blessing doesn't reach you, they're just too busy spamming Link + Ogris to even know what's going on or what's expected of them. A half semi-remotely almost decent Trinity can keep her team invulnerable indefinitely. Lobster Princess for life.

Edited December 23, 2013 by TenkoTenko

[Demon-King-Lamb]

You probably never played any D&D game...ever. Paladin's aren't really meant for Tanking. They are a tactician. The can heal minor wounds, Smite foe's for more dmg dealt. And they are holy symbols of their gods. You see, he does what he's supposed to do.

[Arlayn]

You probably never played any D&D game...ever. Paladin's aren't really meant for Tanking. They are a tactician. The can heal minor wounds, Smite foe's for more dmg dealt. And they are holy symbols of their gods. You see, he does what he's supposed to do.

Your right I played Forgotten Realms, and I remember paladins were friggin awesome... Then again I played the 3.4 rules back when druids/shapeshifters could turn into full sized dragons... They had a whole set of fancy awesome abilities. I need to find my Forgotten realms book, but the paladin had some sweet abilities.

[Merlinhawk]

I think him rather Druidic...

[Arlayn]

I think him rather Druidic...

that is acceptable he does remind me of Radagast the brown from the Hobbit... I mean the grinner are threatening his forest and all...