De Team, Thank You For The Karak

[WhiskeyGolf]

Just got it to Level 28. About to slap my first Forma on it - probably a tactics polarity - tomorrow, once I get it to 30. I'm still using my Doma for Derelicts and Survivals, but this is a fun gun to shoot and I like it, purely from the feels, looks, and sound.

The Karak really, really lends itself towards elemental damage builds. If Soma is a crit damage machine, Karak relies instead on elemental damage. The high base damage really benefits elemental loads - one realises there's no point in speccing for crit chance and damage, so I really focus on my elements. Even though this rifle fires impact, running Magnetic/Radiation + Toxin is really viable because, again, of the high base damage, and no crit allowing elementals to be stacked. (You have barely enough space for 2 elements in a Soma after you put in the essentials).

I may not have insane ROF, but that doesn't matter when I can kill in 3 round bursts...

About the only thing I don't really like is the magazine - Looks like a paintball canister - but that's minor and I ignore that for the top part and thr carrying handle/sight.

... But if Karak is so good, I wonder how a theoretical Karak wraith would look like. ^_^;

[[DE]Momaw]

... But if Karak is so good, I wonder how a theoretical Karak wraith would look like. ^_^;

 

Bump the status chance up to 10%, and the magazine up to 40 rounds.

[[DE]Momaw]

Well, I threw caution to the winds and potatoe'd my Karak, and forma'd it.  A single round of Apolladorus had it back up to level 10. This is by far the most effective stock weapon I've used. :)    So far I've put Split Chamber, Serration, Wildfire, and Shred on mine.  Absolutely destroys the hordes of light infected in the invasions. The rate of fire is now so high that the merest suggestion of touching the trigger is a 3 shot burst and a dead enemy. So nice. :)

[DB-Tenno]

This weapon turned out to be surprisingly fun. Never expected to have such a great time leveling what appeared to be a generic assault rifle from first impressions. Something about it just felt right. Maybe it's because I'm too used to assorted weird weapons like the bows, acrid, knives, glaive, etc...

 

I'm actually tempted to potato & forma it because it was so much fun. Sure, it's definitely not a beast like Soma/Boar Prime/Sobek/Ogris, but I actually enjoyed using it more than those go-to endgame guns. The Karak brought back a refreshing sense of visceral rifle-toting action in my experience.

[Aspari]

I'd also like to add that the Karak has the best ammo economy of all the assault rifles.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Potatoed and Forma'ed my Karak this morning. At the end of the day, the Soma is more efficient as a weapon, chewing its way through enemies with a hailstorm of bullets.

The Karak, however, is just more fun. XD slapping a Speed Trigger and Shred on this rifle really ramps up the rate of fire, and really reminds me of the AEK-971, which was one of my favorite guns in Battlefield 3, due to the sheer ROF. Also, adding Hush makes this feel like it's an operator rifle, lol.

And echoing Aspari, this rifle's ammo economy is pretty good. I find that Rifle Ammo Mutation isn't required like on Soma; it's nice to have (well, in Defense and Survival it's a must), but you can make do without.

[NikolaiLev]

 Hard hitting, good accuracy, it's really a step up from the Braton and Boltor and I do quite like it alot.

 

That's... not a good thing.  That's called power creep.

[MECT_HET]

Karak is all about short burst fire. Potatoed x5 times, never regret. Almost no penalties from maxed Heavy Caliber, more than enough damage to deal with the infested on 60+ minutes on ODS. Like it.

 

Still, I could use a bit more increased proc chance to stun my targets.

[Chaz_Darkbane]

I have to say I am really not a fan of the Karak at all, sure it has higher base damage than the Braton, but its crit chance is nonexistant and its magazine capacity is terrible especially considering its fire rate. I feel like I spend more time reloading the gun than I do shooting it.

 

Then again any complaint I have about it might just come from the fact I haven't gotten a chance to potato or forma it like I did with my Braton. I can see that because of its balanced damage spread it would be pretty easy to turn into a powerhouse with things like serration, rupture and elemental mods but the magazine size is an issue I can already tell I will have to fix with something like tainted mag or wildfire in order to have any fun with the thing.

[DCypherThis13]

Truly, a genius design from the Grineer engineers Ugen Stanar and Mik Klash. ;D

I see what you did there. Very nice.

[EvilKam]

Karak spelled backwards.

 

 

Karak

Taco cat spelled backwards is still Taco Cat.

[DCypherThis13]

Taco cat spelled backwards is still Taco Cat.

Race car, too.

[Krysis_V]

That's... not a good thing.  That's called power creep.

 

No where near it. Soma is still the better rifle.

 

The Karak presents a wonderful option for newcomers since its relatively cheap to make and have decent damage. And Boltor is no slouch in the recent buff.

[Exo594]

That's... not a good thing.  That's called power creep.

Lemme call you a Waaaaaaaaahmbulance. This is a game with RPG elements. You hit things with sticks so you can buy differently colored sticks to hit differently colored things with. Continuum of power is an almost necessary part of an RPG.

[ObviousLee]

Lemme call you a Waaaaaaaaahmbulance. This is a game with RPG elements. You hit things with sticks so you can buy differently colored sticks to hit differently colored things with. Continuum of power is an almost necessary part of an RPG.

completely agree on this point. i actually find it kinda insane how many people strive to be weaker in this game. it's like people are afraid of getting stronger for some reason =/

[Scar.Heart]

Maxed & Tossed.

 

It's the opposite of Braton Prime in damage stats.

 

Didn't care for it. Aesthetically speaking, I don't care for much of the Grineer primaries.

Gameplay wise, it was fine. Just didn't feel right in my hands.

[NikolaiLev]

No where near it. Soma is still the better rifle.

 

The Karak presents a wonderful option for newcomers since its relatively cheap to make and have decent damage. And Boltor is no slouch in the recent buff.

 

I didn't say Karak was the best option now.  I just said it was superior to the Braton, which is disappointing.  The Braton and the Karak should be equally viable choices.

 

completely agree on this point. i actually find it kinda insane how many people strive to be weaker in this game. it's like people are afraid of getting stronger for some reason =/

 

It's not about being weaker.  It's about desiring a game based on skill, rather than gear.  I can't stand RPGs.  I play Warframe for an action game, not an RPG.

 

If all the gear was equally balanced, and simply played differently, DE would be forced to make gear that... plays differently.  So we'd have a higher frequency of guns that have new gameplay, rather than dull upgrades of older weapons.

 

It'd also mean that if you like something, you can use it without being artifically gimped.  So player choice extends not only to gameplay style, but also to aesthetics.  That improves player choice.  Is that really such a bad thing?

[WhiskeyGolf]

That's... not a good thing.  That's called power creep.

 

By your logic, the US Air Force's progression from F-4C/E Phantom to the F-15A/C Eagle and then the F-22A Raptor represents power creep.

 

You use the MK-1 Brato till you get the Braton, you use the Braton till you get the Boltor, you use the Boltor till you get the Karak, you alternate using the Boltor and the Karak till you get the Soma. It's a progression of getting better guns as you progress in your journey through Warframe.

 

Besides, the Karak only does 1 damage more than the Boltor, and is Impact-focused while the Boltor is Puncture-focused. Use Karak for anti-Corpus work, Boltor for Anti-Grineer. Problem solved. I consider the Karak an alternative/counterpart to the Boltor.

 

@ All:

 

While the Soma is a legitimately better weapon and still has better DPS, and I like it, I will continue to keep playing the Karak because I find it fun, and I like it.

 

And really that's what this whole thing is about. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine - there's plenty of guns in Warframe and you'll find one you like. Flux Rifle for instance doesn't work for me, and neither do bows - but I know people who swear by them and are gods with them. For me, it's the Karak that floats my boat.

 

It's not the best rifle, but it's a decent rifle and I find it fun to use.

 

I see what you did there. Very nice.

 

Thanks. You're the only person who noted that I tried to make Grineer'ed renditions of Eugene Stoner (designer of the AR-15 that became the M16) and Mikhail Kalashnikov (The designer of the AK-47). ^_^;;

 

 

I didn't say Karak was the best option now.  I just said it was superior to the Braton, which is disappointing.  The Braton and the Karak should be equally viable choices.

 

Personally I'd consider the Karak to be a counterpart to the Boltor, based on the damage they do. Also, consider - you should be able to use Mercury, Earth and Venus resources to make a Karak, which will see you through to Mars, at which point you pick up the Boltor. Then it's just a matter of Karak for anti-Corpus and Boltor for anti-Grineer work.

 

 

It's not about being weaker.  It's about desiring a game based on skill, rather than gear.  I can't stand RPGs.  I play Warframe for an action game, not an RPG.

 

If all the gear was equally balanced, and simply played differently, DE would be forced to make gear that... plays differently.  So we'd have a higher frequency of guns that have new gameplay, rather than dull upgrades of older weapons.

 

It'd also mean that if you like something, you can use it without being artifically gimped.  So player choice extends not only to gameplay style, but also to aesthetics.  That improves player choice.  Is that really such a bad thing?

 

You have a point here, but I'd like to say here that from my POV, you're artificially forcing an issue by comparing the Karak to the Braton.

 

Now, you can make the Braton viable - lord knows I used the S#&$ outta my Braton - but it's almost universally agreed that the next step up from the Braton is the Boltor. The Karak is likewise a step up from the Braton (albeit with some tradeoffs). If you're arguing against the Karak, you need to argue against the Boltor too.

 

Again, rifle progression: MK-1 Brato is inferior to Braton, which is inferior to Karak/Boltor, which are more or less same level. Or in plane terms: F-4C < F-4E < F-15C/Su-27.

 

Edited December 26, 2013 by WhiskeyGolf

[NikolaiLev]

By your logic, the US Air Force's progression from F-4C/E Phantom to the F-15A/C Eagle and then the F-22A Raptor represents power creep.

 

Personally I'd consider the Karak to be a counterpart to the Boltor, based on the damage they do. Also, consider - you should be able to use Mercury, Earth and Venus resources to make a Karak, which will see you through to Mars, at which point you pick up the Boltor. Then it's just a matter of Karak for anti-Corpus and Boltor for anti-Grineer work.

 

 

 

You have a point here, but I'd like to say here that from my POV, you're artificially forcing an issue by comparing the Karak to the Braton.

 

Now, you can make the Braton viable - lord knows I used the S#&$ outta my Braton - but it's almost universally agreed that the next step up from the Braton is the Boltor. The Karak is likewise a step up from the Braton (albeit with some tradeoffs). If you're arguing against the Karak, you need to argue against the Boltor too.

 

Again, rifle progression: MK-1 Brato is inferior to Braton, which is inferior to Karak/Boltor, which are more or less same level. Or in plane terms: F-4C < F-4E < F-15C/Su-27.

 

 

Real-life military forces aren't games.  Games should be balanced so that all options should be equally viable, and sufficiently distinguished in gameplay.  If there was some gameplay-driven reason for guns to be worse than others, then it'd be fine, but this is purely a motivator to grind more, and to me that's bad.  It's artificially forcing gameplay.  It also limits a choice on what could be a viable alternative for the sake of gameplay and aesthetics.

 

It's true, I should be arguing against the Boltor.  Really, the problem is endemic to all weapons in Warframe; in the grand scheme of things, weapons like the Braton, the mk-1 Braton, the Skana, the Bo, and so on are all underpowered, and so should be buffed.  The notion that early game gear being powerful would result in no one buying new weapons is just silly.  I'm fairly certain most people aren't allergic to variety.

 

I express disappointment with the Karak because it's merely a continuation of the trend.  It's not the cause, and it's not the first instance.  I just wish it'd stop.

[XAN3MK]

Real-life military forces aren't games.  Games should be balanced so that all options should be equally viable, and sufficiently distinguished in gameplay.  If there was some gameplay-driven reason for guns to be worse than others, then it'd be fine, but this is purely a motivator to grind more, and to me that's bad.  It's artificially forcing gameplay.  It also limits a choice on what could be a viable alternative for the sake of gameplay and aesthetics.

 

That would be the case, assuming the game was designed from the ground up to work that way, which is not the case with Warframe. Warframe, in its core is an Action RPG in the vein of Diablo, Torchlight or Path of Exile, it shares the same mentality in terms of gear and gear progression (although approached from different angle). I don't see the power curve progression going away any time soon as its one of the main gears that drives this game forward. What Warframe does need however is more variety per power tier. Having 8-12 weapon choices per tier would be a good goal for the future.

 

Hopefully this doesn't come off as hostile reply, I'm just trying to point out that despite the action/shooter facade of Warframe, it is very much an ARPG at its heart.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Real-life military forces aren't games. Games should be balanced so that all options should be equally viable, and sufficiently distinguished in gameplay. If there was some gameplay-driven reason for guns to be worse than others, then it'd be fine, but this is purely a motivator to grind more, and to me that's bad. It's artificially forcing gameplay. It also limits a choice on what could be a viable alternative for the sake of gameplay and aesthetics.

You have a point there, albeit one I disagree with, but it's a valid point.

To me, I kinda see weapon progression as moving in tune with the player's progression through harder zones; the Braton is okay for early areas, then as you progress to more difficult zones you get better weapons that serve to help you. Having said that I would not mind a buff to the Braton, because I did genuinely like it, but back in Damage 1.0, the Boltor's armor ignore was just too good to pass up. (And then along came Soma back when it was Rank 3...)

As for aesthetics, I sold my Boltor because I like the Karak's aesthetics better. ^_^;;

It's true, I should be arguing against the Boltor. Really, the problem is endemic to all weapons in Warframe; in the grand scheme of things, weapons like the Braton, the mk-1 Braton, the Skana, the Bo, and so on are all underpowered, and so should be buffed. The notion that early game gear being powerful would result in no one buying new weapons is just silly. I'm fairly certain most people aren't allergic to variety.

To be honest, I do agree with you in this regard. I still remember the pain i had with starting gear. Which is why I'm glad the Karak is around, because at least you're getting a decent rifle that will last you till ignis and soma, and you're getting it ealier than the boltor.

Again, I have better guns, but I'm using the Karak because i like it. Which actually supports your hypothesis that people like variety. ^_^;;

I express disappointment with the Karak because it's merely a continuation of the trend. It's not the cause, and it's not the first instance. I just wish it'd stop.

Fair enough.

[Krysis_V]

I didn't say Karak was the best option now.  I just said it was superior to the Braton, which is disappointing.  The Braton and the Karak should be equally viable choices.

 

The Braton can be had for 20k credits; it's the obvious next easy step upgrade for newcomers. The Karak on the other hand requires materials to build which part of it is 2 neurodes; something not easily available at the start. I will say its fair for the Karak to be somewhat better. Besides, the Karak has its trade off, namely the measly 30 clip magazine which everyone did voice about in the forums.

 

The Karak is better compared to the Boltor which requires approximately the same amount of material and they do the same amount of damage. Not to forget newcomers have already lost out the option of using the Gorgon.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Krysis_V

[NikolaiLev]

Sadly it seems the majority of people want Warframe to be a gear-based game rather than a skill-based game.  Guess I'm left out in the rain.

 

It's too bad a compromise can't be reached, and really I doubt DE would care to try.

[WhiskeyGolf]

Um... Y'know, the Karak being simply decent, as opposed to being a critdeath machine like the Soma, should require players to put more thought into how they play and use it, right? *shrug*

[DCypherThis13]

Thanks. You're the only person who noted that I tried to make Grineer'ed renditions of Eugene Stoner (designer of the AR-15 that became the M16) and Mikhail Kalashnikov (The designer of the AK-47). ^_^;;

Your welcome. I'm just a bit of a firearms enthusiast... Of course, it is worth noting that our good friend Mik Klash passed away earlier this week at the age of 94. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that he will be missed.

 

Also, Ugen Stanar originally designed the AR-10, chambered for the .308 Winchester cartridge(7.62mm NATO), then it was redesigned to chamber the .223 Remington cartridge(5.56mm NATO) at the request of the U.S. Army. He was a genius in his own right.

 

But, let's face it Juhn Bronung was a god among Grineer...

Edited December 26, 2013 by DCypherThis13