Damnit The Damage System...

[Soul_Shinobi]

Look, are we done with this now? Can I frame it yet?

 

 

 

But... I...

 

 

 

...

 

[bejuizb]

LOL

[HomeyCDawg]

Complexity for complexities sake ftw.

[bobafetthotmail]

heheheh. Overengineering ftw.

[Leorion]

Update 12 incoming~~

[Chris9428]

 

 

Prepare for U12 to make it even more complex. Every enemy is going to have completely different weaknesses!

[demonaii]

Oh man it's so complex >_< my brain is shutting down

[Voidflow]

There is nothing complex in current system, especially with wiki table.

[f3llyn]

They just need to lower the bonuses and weaknesses to be 10-15% max. That would fix all the problems with the current iteration.

[quietcanary]

yes! that's the best idea ever! make damage resistance not matter plz!

[bobafetthotmail]

They just need to lower the bonuses and weaknesses to be 10-15% max. That would fix all the problems with the current iteration.

that would kill the whole concept. Consider that there are weapons that deal 1000+ damage per shot.

[MageMeat]

I personally find it both fascinating and frustrating to work with.

[.Talia.]

I think there should be some kinda balance, a maximum 50% bonus vs any resistance. If something has 75% bonus then it must have -25% vs something to balance it out. If it has 100% bonus in total, then must have -50% total vs another thing for example.

[f3llyn]

that would kill the whole concept. Consider that there are weapons that deal 1000+ damage per shot.

 

How so? It would make it so certain weapons are still good against certain enemy types (like now) but it would make it so they wouldn't be completely useless against other things. That would make it so people don't feel like they've wasted formas on certain weapons and lessen the feeling that we need to have 3 or 4 different weapon set ups for specific enemy types all the while still promoting weapon diversity.

 

Not to mention the fact that it will make it easier to balance both enemies and weapons.

 

I'm not seeing a downsides.

Edited December 26, 2013 by f3llyn

[Firetempest]

Basically. Never use Blast.

[MageMeat]

Basically. Never use Blast.

Why not? The other combined elements aren't much better either.

[Firetempest]

Why not? The other combined elements aren't much better either.

Nothing important is hurt by Blast (unless there is a roller Apocalypse) and all procs are super low anyway. Only using for a chance at a knockdown is a bit of a waste. Melee or powers are far better at it.

All other combined reach up to +75% damage on far more important health types.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Firetempest

[shut]

Why Cloned Flesh and Human Flesh are separated is beyond me. I mean, one's less healthy, but that doesn't mean that it should magically gain defenses against blunt hits and poison.

[RoboDoge]

Last picture should be OP burning that piece of paper.......and his laptop.....and his house.

[BadAimbot]

At the moment double double elemental combos are mostly terrible because you always miss something important, and there are still cookie cutter builds, you just always have more trouble killing something. The system is terrible right now and needs to be redone again.

[Nickeltoe]

it does nothing different but add toxin damage in and makes sure you can't pick the (now 2) elemental effects you want. 

Want Corrosive and Magnetic?  Impossible! 

Want Gas and Viral?  (Impossibro!) 

Want to increase slash, impact or piercing?  (WHY Would you, always taking whatever second dual element is better as it comes in at so much more damage than increasing one of the physical damages)

 

Literally a huge revamp for no reason other than a revamp.

Still high level enemies (now past lvl 35) are just bullet sponges.

Melee 2.0 will be a bigger change as you can equip your melee weapon now to take pics with it, then hopefully still lvl it on your back as melee needs to be 1 swing 1 dead enemy for it to be used over ranged anything (powers, guns, etc...)  Although I think they will still keep the damage low but to level it you must now actually kill with it, so Mercury will be hot anytime a new melee weapon comes out.

 

All people wanted was a different method than constant CC from infested, huge armor sums causing bullet sponges on Grineer and if you went far the other factions too.  Corpus was ok, just had to hit cover, 1 all the time cover faction is ok, now all 3 work like that and cover does nothing against the infested so I fail to see how better off we are.

 

 

Still though farming tons of stuff is fun after 10 months, hope that some more mod slots are added so we can start to use the other 250 mods that we don't normally use.  The 50 we use are not so much fun anymore but sure are required.

 

 

Once you get the new toxin and physical damage mods though it is back to the rainbow, but now it is rainbow 2.0 (you don't get to chose.)

Corrosive/Blast = grineer

Magnetic/Gas = corpus

Magnetic/Gas or Gas/Slash = infested

 

Still really the same build just the mods go in different orders and if you want to be fancy you can drop magnetic and up your physical damage and do alright against infested.  People still using Charge Melee builds will see that the damage on regular swing is much more easy to play with at high levels once you forma the melee weapon.  Charge weapons are no longer the "it" builds.

 

Farming stuff is fun still, I just hope more mod slots are added so we can start using more than 50 to 60 mods we normally use and try out the other 220ish or so.  The game is fun at least no matter how they calculate damage.  Survival is super fun now solo, but they might make that harder as you can go an hour solo vs infested and about 40 minutes solo vs Grineer/Corpus.  Hopefully that stays.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Nickeltoe

[Firetempest]

it does nothing different but add toxin damage in and makes sure you can't pick the (now 2) elemental effects you want. 

Want Corrosive and Magnetic?  Impossible! 

Want Gas and Viral?  (Impossibro!) 

Want to increase slash, impact or piercing?  (WHY Would you, always taking whatever second dual element is better as it comes in at so much more damage than increasing one of the physical damages)

So basically, you just want rainbow builds back that's effective against everything.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Firetempest

[Nickeltoe]

So basically, you just want rainbow builds back.

 

Anywhere in my post, please point out where you got that implication from?

 

We still have rainbow builds, just now instead of Armor Pen as element 4, toxin took over.  It does not even feel different except that Ice Damage (the best before) no longer slows the enemy.  Besides that I feel no different after getting and using all the new toxin mods and physical damage mods.  I have to put 4 elements on to get the most damage out of a gun.

 

EDIT:  I would like more than 2 slots to play with per weapon.  6 are needed for the 4 elements and serration and multishot.  On melee multi-shot = swing speed (or charge speed for those that still do that.)

 

EDIT 2:  I do not want 1 gun that is tops vs all.  All my guns that I formad have A, B, C.  Grineer, Corpus and INfested.  The only difference between the 3 is load order and in infested's case I up slash if it has a decent slash rating to begin with instead of adding in magnetic to gas.

 

Biggest thing about charge vs normal swing melee now is the proc.  Swing more and you get the proc more, with berzerk on fast weapons it is up constantly, even on Reaper Prime procs jump out due to attack speed now, not super big swing damage of charge.  That is the biggest difference in damage 2.0 imo.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Nickeltoe

[RoboDoge]

So basically, you just want rainbow builds back that's effective against everything.

Prolly. Weapon that is good against everything.

 

On other hand, i dont even care about damage types. I just place damage types on a whim.

[bobafetthotmail]

How so? It would make it so certain weapons are still good against certain enemy types (like now) but it would make it so they wouldn't be completely useless against other things. That would make it so people don't feel like they've wasted formas on certain weapons and lessen the feeling that we need to have 3 or 4 different weapon set ups for specific enemy types all the while still promoting weapon diversity.

 

Not to mention the fact that it will make it easier to balance both enemies and weapons.

 

I'm not seeing a downsides.

I do. With what you say there would be basically no difference between elementals, so whatever gun deals the highest DPS is best across the board.

 

Ogris can reliably deal 5000 per shot now that it has been fixed, and you understand that adding or subtracting 15% from that isn't going to change much the effect.

Synapse deals 2000+ dps before we factor in the crits, and the sniper rifles are in the same ballpark (DPS wise). Again a 15% more or less is not going to change much.

 

 

So basically, you just want rainbow builds back that's effective against everything.

Because now BlastRosive isn't effective against everything. No seriously.