I Have A Rough Idea On How To Make Bows Viable.

[Eyeless]

I'm gonna need you all to bear with me, as I came up with all this while falling asleep at 4:30 AM and remembering how cool the Justice League Unlimited Cartoon was. 

 

As you all know, Bows at late game are a laughing stock. They drastically pale in comparison to their hit-scan brethren, and the only bow-like weapon that offers similar functionality with projectiles is the Lanka, which does quite alright. 

 

Yet it isn't a bow.

 

We've acknowledged that a Bow will never out-damage a machinegun that spews crits or a sniper rifle that can do over 10K per headshot consistently. 

 

However we've also acknowledged that to keep bows in the game, the solution is simple. Give them more utility. 

 

Mods like Thunderbolt are a great start but the explosions simply don't scale past Mid Level, and even that's pushing it, and the way DE has our mods set up, having the usual for the Bows:

 

1. Serration

2. Split Chamber

3. Vital Sense

4. Point Strike

5. Element 1

6. Element 2

7. Free

8. Free

 

So we only have two slots left, where we can either A. Fit in Speed Trigger/Shred and Fast Hands or B. Screw ease of use of our weapon, lets put in a whopping TWO utility mods! Yaaaay!

 

Good Joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drums. Curtains...

 

This is where my idea comes in, and it's pretty rough around the edges (I JUST thought about it last night) but I want you all to tell me what you think about this:

 

Some, if not all of you, know Green Arrow, from the Justice League right? Or at least Hawk Eye, from MARVEL's Avengers? 

 

They both do pretty much the same thing. They have a plain or kinda fancy looking bow, and a quiver full of arrows. Yet each of the arrows in that quiver has the ability to do something totally different. 

 

Some of these arrows when shot will stick to surfaces then violently explode from the C4 stuffed in their tip. Others are sharp and serrated, for cutting strong wire or !@#$ stabbing somebody. One of Green Arrow's was literally an arrow that turned into a boxing glove that decked a crook in the face, knocking him out cold.

 

To the point, both of these fictional characters had a quiver of arrows, filled with arrows designed for a variety of utilities. 

 

It'd be simple enough to make a mod like that, a mod for each arrow utility and give it a certain % chance to activate, but that would...really ruin the point, wouldn't it? So here's where my idea comes on.

 

Why not have a separate Gear inventory? LIke, ya know, we hold Q to open up a small menu with boxes filled with Team restores, Vault Keys, Antitoxins, etc. 

 

Instead though, this one is for different stacks of arrows that go in our quiver. An entire inventory of Arrows we can change on the fly via hotkeys and such after we press a key to switch from our Gear inventory to our Quiver inventory, from which we can fill with different arrow types that do different things when selected, drawn, and fired. 

 

Example, I'm sitting there with my Ash, on some really high up point. Our Volt is getting bogged down by some Grineer Heavy units, and I need a quicker way to get down there while maintaining a height advantage:

 

With the tap of a key my gear has changed to my quiver, and from there I tap a bound hot-key (so as not to waste time opening and taking precious seconds to select a random arrow) I draw my now glowing white arrow back all the way, fire, and a zip line trails out from the arrow's shaft, as the arrow embeds into a cliff wall down below, securing the line. 

 

Ash grabs the new line, sliding down it speedily, and as my Frame travels I tap another hotkey, and my arrows flash an icy blue. When almost upon the five Heavy Units I release from the line and tap the fire button. The arrow drops down point first in the middle of them, followed by a cool sound effect/flash, and the Heavies are frozen solid by Cryo-headed arrow.

 

Another quick tap of a key and the arrows flash a reddish orange, and I simply shoot an arrow into the chest of one of the Heavies, and scurry away with the Volt. With the Arrow placed, I can now tap Right Click, and then there's a resounding 'BOOM!' as the arrow explodes like a well modded Ogris rocket and kills all five of the heavy units. 

 

I think the idea of mine here is pretty much explained now. We have our bows, and now instead of using slot consuming mods we simply have different arrows to fire for different situations. There's a few things that need work though to make this idea complete:

 

What sort of Arrows are we to be equipping?

 

How do we obtain these different sets of arrows? Do we craft them? Once we do, will we need to re-craft the arrows we want to use or else be constrained to using our regular bow shots; or can we resupply the contents of our quiver by using the Sniper ammo type? A new ammo type?

 

My second idea to this, was instead of having the same arrows for each of the four bows, why not give each bow a unique Quiver and a more specialized set of arrows within?

 

Paris/Paris Prime: Mildly offensive CC, be it freezing enemies, blinding them, tripping them, paralyzing them like Volt's chain lightning, or covering them in flammable liquids that ignite when shot at, causing the fire proc while making them more vulnerable to the team's damage. 

Dread: Offensive , in the form of serrated arrows that not only pierce armor, but inflict massive bleed at such a fast rate even heavy units could bleed out in seconds. Powerful explosive tips utilized either in single arrow explosions or an array of arrows shot into multiple enemies, who then run into a crowd, and then the arrow heads get triggered. Boom!

Pure offensive elemental procs, health leeching, etc. You know. Things to make this the Evil bow. 

Cernos: Utility, like that zip line I was talking about, health restoration when the arrow hits a fellow tenno, maybe even ammo. Tips that conjure miniature force fields where they land for others to crouch behind, energy nets that entangle and slow down groups of enemies, or an arrow that on impact sends out a pulse that restores energy to Tenno in the radius. 

 

This is my idea on how we can fix Bows and help them appeal to those wanting Offense, CC, and Utility alike. 

 

Thoughts? Additions? 

 

If you don't have anything constructive or that at least intelligently debates on this, please don't bother posting. If you really disagree on the Bow's viability, scim through this:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/155787-are-any-of-the-bows-worth-using-late-game/#entry1833147'>https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/155787-are-any-of-the-bows-worth-using-late-game/#entry1833147

Edited December 30, 2013 by Hastur609

[Agent_of_Change]

Interesting thoughts.

 

Oddly enough my clan was discussing this the other day.

 

Our Ideas were mods, but a little different in direction:

 

Projectile speed Mod - would affect any non hit scan weapon and speed up the travel time which would affect a number of weapons but very noticeably buff bows.

 

"Charged Damage" Mod -  just like melee weapons, why shouldn't an arrow have the punch of a sniper rifle if you buff it's charge damage directly.

 

I like your ideas but yeah anything in this line of thinking could create some more viability for bows.

[Digitalon]

Hell of a read but I like the Idea. +1 for you!

[Tali]

this is well thought with good ideas and i really like the variation of arrows and how bows can be used. this idea might be hard to implent in WF, so yea good idea :3

1+

[SniffYoBunnies]

Love it +1

Sure there are many other ways to "fix" bows,but this one is the COOLEST one I´ve read so far.

Good job,now go to sleep!

[Spikey844]

I had been thinking along a similar vane with different ammo types, but for rifles and pistols as well. An example is that this special ammo can explode a shot distance form the target, showering them in shrapnel. But that's just one type.

Great idea and all my want.

[shut]

What I'd like to see:

 

- Split Chamber: Increased from 90% Multishot to 100% Multishot.

 

There's a 10% chance of Sniper-type weapons dealing half damage as it is now. That's a very big no-no. I'm not sure why the devs thought this was a good idea.

[Quasar-Sandwich]

 

Paris/Paris Prime: Mildly offensive CC, be it freezing enemies, blinding them, tripping them, paralyzing them like Volt's chain lightning, or covering them in flammable liquids that ignite when shot at, causing the fire proc while making them more vulnerable to the team's damage. 

Dread: Offensive , in the form of serrated arrows that not only pierce armor, but inflict massive bleed at such a fast rate even heavy units could bleed out in seconds. Powerful explosive tips utilized either in single arrow explosions or an array of arrows shot into multiple enemies, who then run into a crowd, and then the arrow heads get triggered. Boom!

Pure offensive elemental procs, health leeching, etc. You know. Things to make this the Evil bow. 

Cernos: Utility, like that zip line I was talking about, health restoration when the arrow hits a fellow tenno, maybe even ammo. Tips that conjure miniature force fields where they land for others to crouch behind, energy nets that entangle and slow down groups of enemies, or an arrow that on impact sends out a pulse that restores energy to Tenno in the radius. 

 

This is my idea on how we can fix Bows and help them appeal to those wanting Offense, CC, and Utility alike. 

 

Thoughts? Additions? 

 

If you don't have anything constructive or that at least intelligently debates on this, please don't bother posting. If you really disagree on the Bow's viability, scim through this:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/155787-are-any-of-the-bows-worth-using-late-game/#entry1833147

I like it, more like Vindictus the better! Kai master race!

[DaftMeat]

I would just be happy with higher stagger and the ability to pin enemies in place against the wall/floor while they're still alive.

[Jector]

It's an interesting idea, though it seems a bit complicated to implement and use.  What if we incorporated something already in the game to boost the utility of bows?  

 

I think bows should fire attack MOAs that latch onto the enemy's head and scratch at their face.  Something about the idea of watching a grineer run around in circles screaming "GET IT OFF! GET IT OFF!" with a MOA kicking him repeatedly in the head makes me smile.

[Korrupt3d]

I'm all for the changes. As it is, the bows are relatively useless for anything above mid level and forget trying to do anything past T2 without having to do some crazy samurai moves in between your shots in order to have time to reload for your low damage arrow.

[Cool3303]

Hmm what about implementing a new type of mods?

 

My Idea would be to add a series of weapon mods with the polarity from frame abilities (just for easier fusing)

So basically you would have a polarity slot on your bow allowing you to add these little more utility you need.

The mods would have 3stats 1st Determines Arrow Type 2nd Increases/decreases proc  3rd increases/decreases damage

 

Mods that might be implemented with this would be :

Chemical Arrow - Greatly increasing proc chance (could be used for debuffing bosses)

 

StickyBomb - Makes the Arrow explode after a while for AOE  (grabbing up that overpowered penta/ogris/stugg damage)

 

Thunderbolt - Makes Arrows exploding instantly with a small radius but  more dmg

 

And you could add probably all stuff already on other weapons:

 

Remote Arrow -Just like Penta

 

Blob Arrow -Releasing a Pure Dot-Blob (what I would love uncharged stugg attacks to be)

 

And Just to troll normal weapons:

Splinter Arrow - Releasing little tiny arrows! (shotgun Arrows)

Rocket Arrow - Adding a Rocket engine to the arrow making it go faster than light!!!(Hitscan arrows XD)

 

It would be cool if there would be similiar mods for other weapon types,just less powerfull maybe

 

 

 

This should be fairly easy to implement since only equivalent effects would have to be added and maybe an cylinder where the arrowhead used to be

[Eyeless]

It's an interesting idea, though it seems a bit complicated to implement and use.  What if we incorporated something already in the game to boost the utility of bows?  

 

I think bows should fire attack MOAs that latch onto the enemy's head and scratch at their face.  Something about the idea of watching a grineer run around in circles screaming "GET IT OFF! GET IT OFF!" with a MOA kicking him repeatedly in the head makes me smile.

Ahaha, indeed, I grinned at that too, but that doesn't seem as practical/useful as having a wide variety of arrows to quickly switch between to tackle any situation thrown your way. The second idea that further specializes our current 3 bows I feel would make them more desirable, so Players see a reason to put time and effort into the three of them. 

 

As they are now, the only reason they're used is A. Mastery and B. There's players out there who swear by them and it fits their playstyle. Who am I to argue with what people find fun? However, I do really want to see Bows improved and given better mechanics, which is what this thread is all about. 

 

Please people, work with me to garner some attention for my original post, I want more feedback, criticisms, and people willing to contribute to this idea!

[NyghttheClassy]

Liking some of the ideas coming up in this thread. Maybe not as complicated seeming as OP, need trimming and grooming and refining from the devs, but the bows really could do with some of this buffing and improved utility. Feels a bit saddening that a force of space ninja/samurai warriors can't realistically use bows on the higher end of the game.

[Cool3303]

No love for my Suggestion Hastur?

I guess I should give you more feedback to Op...

 

I personally Hate the Idea of switching arrows.Hotkeys don't work out for me.

also I think it is a little bit too much fun for the arrow users.

They should still be forced to make choices and either relly on AOE,DOT or DPS to kill their enemies in one session instead of laughingly switching to High Damage arrows After Aoe-ing the hell out of common grunts.

 

Also the new inventory and the changes in damage mechanism would be too big for just fixing a such little thing (because they are still usable on mid levels)Utitlility for bows would be interesting but also having unexpected balancing issues (thats a nice healing arrow you got there let me exploit it for you)

 

As I see it we can either wish for something Beautifull Overwhelming stuff which is so impossible to implement that It will never happen.OR we just ask friendly for a nice present wich might be given to us by some friendly devs.

[Eyeless]

No love for my Suggestion Hastur?

I guess I should give you more feedback to Op...

 

I personally Hate the Idea of switching arrows.Hotkeys don't work out for me.

also I think it is a little bit too much fun for the arrow users.

They should still be forced to make choices and either relly on AOE,DOT or DPS to kill their enemies in one session instead of laughingly switching to High Damage arrows After Aoe-ing the hell out of common grunts.

 

Also the new inventory and the changes in damage mechanism would be too big for just fixing a such little thing (because they are still usable on mid levels)Utitlility for bows would be interesting but also having unexpected balancing issues (thats a nice healing arrow you got there let me exploit it for you)

 

As I see it we can either wish for something Beautifull Overwhelming stuff which is so impossible to implement that It will never happen.OR we just ask friendly for a nice present wich might be given to us by some friendly devs.

Oh! I didn't see your post when I made mine, sorry! 

 

New Bow mods are a step in the right direction, but the problem still remains, there aren't enough slots to work with on a Bow to give them all that utility adding these suggested mods in would grant. 

 

It's the main reason why I suggested such a radical change, and it isn't so severe as to be impossible! 

 

I get what you're saying about exploits and everything, but if we continue to play it safe rather than try to find new creative things that are at least within reason, then, well, look at Ember and Valkyr. Oberon still needs love and Damage 2.0 is busy stepping on it's own toes. 

 

Adding more mods to fix things was never a great solution, especially because as it stands most of those mods, we don't have room for!

Edited December 30, 2013 by Hastur609

[KvotheTheArcane1]

+1, personally I like the idea of being able to swap arrows with alt fires for special abilities (i.e. zipline, explosive arrows), much like what Nugget_ is purposing: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/144108-weapons-20-overhauling-the-boring-and-generic-gunplay-of-warframe/

[Arsinic21]

first off, I would like to say I LOVE your idea. second, I have NO clue what you guys are talking about in terms of bows being less than other guns, seeing as how I can use my paris prime(Shred, Serration, speed trigger, Hellfire, Cry rounds, Thunderbolt, Split Barrel, and an ammo cap mod) to comepletely fend off a t3 defense coming from the North door, all by myself, using nothing but. I DO however think that a Magnetically accelerated bow should:

 

A) be MUCH faster than what the paris and paris prime, as I can safely state that a "railbow" would be able to shoot arrows at over 2.4 kilometer per SECOND, therefore making it as fast, if not faster than other weapons in the game.

 

B) have NO "droop" in the fired arrow, as it's going so fast, or at least if there is a droop, it should be hardly noticeable unless when at extreme ranges. did you know that a railgun can fire bullets faster and farther then conventional weaponry? so why is this not the same for the "railbows" such as paris and paris prime? makes no sense.

 

also, in terms of the thunderbolt mod, I think the explosion chance is way too low for it to be of any effect. I think it should be at least 50% if not more when maxed. as it sits now, It's only a 30% chance, and while it CAN help, it lets me down more often than not, leaving me open to attacks(which almost never happens, except on small missions where there is no vantage points.) still I think the bows aren't all that bad, I can keep up in kill count on t3 missions, they just need to either change what the paris/prime says about it, or change the mechanics of the arrows so that they actually act like mag accel arrows.

 

IMHO I think the devs should really pay attention to what they have the weapons say about themselves, because the only reason I grabbed the bow was because it was supposed to be a mag accel bow, which SHOULD have a VERY high damage per arrow, seeing as how fast they go. still, I cant bring myself to switch to another primary weapon either, I've gotten so used to the bow, it feels alien to use anything but.

[demonaii]

I think it will be better if we just buff the bows not big deal ...

[matto]

That's a good idea I had in my mind too watching Arrow (TV series).

 

But mine was more about skins. Not changing the bow though, just the arrows.

 

However, if something like that is going to happen, we need to get rid of Thunderbolt.

 

The hook-kind of arrow would be, maybe, hard to add to the current game design, and this arrow gear too. But they should think about it.

[Anatasia]

I really liked the idea you brought up a lot, but from the way Damage 2.0 is going now I doubt having the unique quiver for different bows would be very viable since each of the bow deals different types of primary damage. Like bringing a Dread to let's say a Grinner mission just for the offensive quiver may not be the best option present etc. But that aside, I really liked the idea of being able to bring different arrows to a mission and adapt to the situation. I do hope the DE will consider this option.

[ultracopyrights]

Automatic bows. Like Van Hellsing and his crossbow.
 

[ZephyrPhantom]

Oh man, as soon as you mentioned JLU I was expecting Green Arrow's trick arrows. As a fan of that and the current Arrow series, I love the idea overall and the hotkeying to switch arrows is nice and simple way of going about it. I'd probably get at least Cernos in a heartbeat if this ever got put in just to zipline all over maps.

 

Having automatic crossbows (see Terraria's Repeaters) sounds a fun idea, too.

 

As for your questions:

What sort of Arrows are we to be equipping?

I think you answered yourself with the quiver idea, if I understand this correctly. I have a question, though : why would certain bows be limited to certain arrows, realistically? Gameplaywise it'd definitely give each bow a different purpose, but in practice it seems kind of odd that a bow can't just shoot any arrow it wants.

 

How do we obtain these different sets of arrows? Do we craft them? Once we do, will we need to re-craft the arrows we want to use or else be constrained to using our regular bow shots; or can we resupply the contents of our quiver by using the Sniper ammo type? A new ammo type?

I'd say they'd be simple Gear blueprints you can buy from the shop that allow you to craft each bow's respective trick arrows. (Reusable, and maybe there could also be a 10x version). Going into mission, you'd equip arrows by putting them in your Gear slots, and you could either switch arrows by selecting them in Gear, or hitting the aforementioned 'switch arrow' hotkey, with the current arrow equipped being displayed under the bow name. If you want more arrows, you'd have to craft them, IMHO, since they're essentially extra ammo for a bow that get innate special effects.

Edited December 31, 2013 by ZephyrPhantom

[quietcanary]

I still say forget the whole sticking enemys to walls thing and make arrows infinite punch through and remove more of the arc. Real bows dont even drop that much let alone orokin/tenno built super weapons. Also think most of the suggest mod ideas are silly but if it where implemented it should be based on how long you charge it so its actually useable... How many free hot keys do you people think i have lol?

Also more multishot mods plz for more mini ogris fun!

Edit: want to make a sorta alternate suggestion. Always thought it was kinda silly having arrows that proc each element especially since the proc chance and the rate of fire for bows doesn't make these great at element stuff anyway. I wod really like it if the arrow types changed based on element so radiation would get its own unique arrow skin of a atomic rod and have the punch through that i mentioned while other elements have their own unique properties as well..... What i mean to say is that elements would affect the mechanics of arrows rather than add something onto them like damage or knockdown. Figuring out ways to make these unique would be hard but a few I like our ....

magnetism sticking people to walls .

radiation having infinite punch through

ice freezing whatever part of the body was hit and causing that part to not be useful

fire causing a slow spreading AoE

explosion .... well that doesn't really require changing at all

anyway the disorder just bad suggestion so I'll leave it up to somebody who knows what they're doing :)

Edited January 1, 2014 by quietcanary

[Rakosta_Kai]

I really really like this idea (one "really" wasn't enough)

Crafting the arrows and equipping from the gear slot also makes the gear slot more useful, creates another need for the foundry, and makes more use of credits and craft components.

 

All of those should be Ideas that DE would like as well.