Playing Warframe Is Boring.

[Noabettiet]

It is also a rather awkward title, but the subject of the topic is kind of... mixed.

 

It is a mix of different ideas and different opinions, so you can kind of expect to be confusing at times. But here is a short story that i hope it helps explaining why i think so:

 

Like many, i have been around here for a good while, for my time on warframe, i was always impressed with its team and game.

Particularly, couldn't support as much as i wanted, was part of many events that made warframe what it was today : the good and the bad.

 

Something always bothered me and i could feel that i was not the only one feeling it, as i saw and still see many threads about "what is wrong with warframe".

And kind off.... Wondered why so/ if there was a way around it, which was the birth of one of my first and well.. awkwardly last blog posts on the wiki:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Extibel/Balance_syndrome

________________

 

 

 

Long story short, it talks about rather the lack of balance between missions objectives fun and the fun associated with fighting enemies.

 

Where you'd expect to have amazing co-op experience, it is in its place, a system in which, the best thing you can gather from going with someone else on the mission is extra fire-power and muscles. 

 

 

________________

And this, is where our first subject starts...

Often, the fire fights are, the only source of fun in warframe. So much, that they overshadow about everything that is not mainly focused in shooting something or defending something.

 

Many of the previous complains about "rising the difficulty" on warframe or even the usual "overpowered item x" complains, are really the source of an unsatisfying gameplay focused only on killing.

 

And yes! That does rise something else, doesn't it? Is our gameplay (fighting NPCs) even satisfying?

 

I mean, imagine that you are in a fight in which you don't absolutely pulverize/ reduce to dust everything in a blink of eyes, in which you are inside of a empty round room, with no way of using your warframe abilities. This is usually the outcome i observe in those fights:

 

     - Option 1; our most commonly used tactic in this situation is to rush to our enemy head on and shoot bullets on its head. In some cases, we will run to cover and go straight back to the fight.

 

     -Option 2; we run in circles in hopes to dodge some bullets and shot some of our own instead. With cases of going to cover in critical situations.

 

     - Option 3; we use melee. 

 

 

We haven't got an working cover system, despite being somewhat of space ninjas, I've never felt really that much of a ninja.

This is, there is no way of switching hands, peek at corners, use meat shields... etc.. 

 

As for existant mechanics of the game:

-Our blocking is a joke, adding mods to give an small use to something already dead, is nothing but a bandage. It is an unreliable source of defense and the stamina added to to it, doesn't really improve the situation, but the actual inverse.

-Our stealth kills are a no go, since some enemies can resist them and right after we failed to kill them, they become alerted. I'd agree if the only enemies immune to instant death were bosses though, stealth is already hard as as it is. 

-Our Parkour/ dodging are unreliable and broken, as an good example, the current form of wall running will rocket shoot you.

 

Which is nothing that hasn't been talked before: 

- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-parkour-has-been-ignored-for-too-long-its-the-key-element-in-making-warframe-gameplay-unique-and-fresh/

 

- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/116872-the-grand-thread-for-animation-improvements-and-fixes-with-gifs/

 

 

__________________
Will add more in the future, such as the lack of progression and how punishing is to start the game with the current RND system.

Edited January 4, 2014 by akkerusia

[Zephyric_Reaper]

I actually find this imbalances to be entertaining. 

If you want a game that is made so we're all happy rainbows and everything does exactly the same dps but in different ways and everything is telegraphed and said then it grows even more boring, at least to me. 

Warframe is pretty much all about random and such random makes it fun, to me. If you want step-by-step measured encoutners-enemies-missions and the lick you can play the big MMO's out there which have scripted battles with same and continous patterns. 

[VKhaun]

TL;DR your post is boring.

 

Skimmed a little.

 

lol @ no working cover system. I get behind boxes all the time in hard missions or when I'm leveling a new frame. Enemies hit the box plenty since they're inaccurate and many of them have specific firing patterns and movements. If you bring punch-through mods cover creates lots of gameplay. That's one of the things I love about Warframe.

[BrotherIcarus]

To add a cover system would make the game play slower and more bring if I wanted to play a 4 player co op cover based third person shooter I have mass effect 3.

[Gryphticon]

Most of you that don't agree are fairly new players to Warframe, as someone who's been here for more than 8 months, I can say that Warframe is boring.

[direcyphre]

Most of you that don't agree are fairly new players to Warframe, as someone who's been here for more than 8 months, I can say that Warframe is boring.

As someone who is been here even longer than you, it is quite fun. Seriously, don't even try to make a counterpoint with something like that.

[rhoenix]

Most of you that don't agree are fairly new players to Warframe, as someone who's been here for more than 8 months, I can say that Warframe is boring.

And yet you have over 3000 posts here on the forums, for a game you think is boring?

I began playing right after the Beta turned from closed to open, and I'm still here. The game is certainly not finished yet (the fact that most maps don't have their own unique tilesets yet, weapons are still being balanced, plot elements haven't really been added yet, etc.), but the work the developers have and are putting into the game is apparent. I will agree that DE should work more on communication of upcoming ideas to the player base, but as developers go, they do listen, and are responsive to constructive feedback more so than most.

Edited January 4, 2014 by rhoenix

[Gryphticon]

And yet you have over 3000 posts here on the forums, for a game you think is boring?

I began playing right after the Beta turned from closed to open, and I'm still here. The game is certainly not finished yet (the fact that most maps don't have their own unique tilesets yet, weapons are still being balanced, plot elements haven't really been added yet, etc.), but the work the developers have and are putting into the game is apparent. I will agree that DE should work more on communication of upcoming ideas to the player base, but as developers go, they do listen, and are responsive to constructive feedback more so than most.

 

You clearly don't know what most of my posts are, they're mostly on my clan thread and me complaining about the current system. Then the rest is fooling around in off-topic and in general discussion. My forum activity has dropped since U10 because the game is too damm boring. Before, I posted like 100-200 posts per day. 

[Gryphticon]

As someone who is been here even longer than you, it is quite fun. Seriously, don't even try to make a counterpoint with something like that.

 

Yeah I did that because it's clearly what is happening, as someone who farmed nearly every frame and that is a normal dude, i think that this game is boring. Seriously, if you don't say that this game is boring then you got a serious problem because 90% of the game is grind, RNG and mostly bullS#&$. I even think that U6 was better than this.

[matrixEXO]

As someone who is been here even longer than you, it is quite fun. Seriously, don't even try to make a counterpoint with something like that.

That just means you love mindlessly playing a game where you do the same things over and over again. PS: IT'S BORING!

 

I join Warframe because it had a concept that seems cool. I entered CBT and eventually made it to OBT. Warframe hasn't evolved into the ball of coolness that it managed to portray itself those days. If I may say, it has been stuck at the starting point since forever. Stealth (not invisible skills) is not working right, enemy AI are still a joke and the missions are all "Kill This! Kill That! Go Here and Kill Everything! Kill Things While You Go Here And Do Something!". I don't mind playing a farming game but it's boring when all it got for it is a 3D version of Diablo with no real ninja-feels to it. Where are the stealth missions? Where are the one-hit kills from behind (the stuffs ninjas are so famous for)?

 

I am still staying around to see how this game evolves but being a game running on Evolution Engine, the game isn't evolving much past what it was before.

Edited January 4, 2014 by matrixEXO

[rhoenix]

Ok, so matrixEXO and Gryphticon both appear to think that Warframe is boring, and not evolving much.

I'm just curious, so I'll ask the both of you - what's your specific criteria for saying so? I've seen quite a bit of progress since I joined, and many, many hints as to where the developers are going from here.

[Mesadeath]

I wanna say that it IS a fun game to play; outrageously fun to tear things apart... but...

 

... it loses all of that fun when you're doing something over and over and over and over and over and over, farming the same place time after time just for resources or blueprints or mods.

 

Grind is fine. It's what keeps some people playing, to get what they want.

 

But this is too damn much. The amount of grind is TOO DAMN HIGH

[Tigercloud]

I think that's the main problem, Mesadeath. There are only two parts of the game in Warframe: endless grind to get what items you want (warframe/weapons), OR high level defense/survival to see how long you can exploit gameplay flaws to keep enemies immobile and unable to attack you while using buffs to be able to kill them.

 

That's it.

 

What I want, is an endgame that is not reward based, as in giving you an item/blueprint/ingredient/part, but instead giving a real change in gameplay. I don't want the only point to Warframe being a treadmill. What I want, is for the game to have a new layer, which changes the game from using powerful weapons to devastate 100s of enemies, to being a game where there's only a few enemies, all of which are nearly as difficult as me to kill, and which require me and my team to use tactics, abilities, and the game's mobility mechanics, parkour, etc, to defeat them.

 

Aka, change the game from a level 90 in World of Warcraft farming tons of level 1s, to something like Ninja Gaiden. PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying get rid of the "destroy tons of enemies" part of the game, I'm saying, ADD a "defeat a few really badass clever enemies" part of the game.

 

I think us gamers are kind of trapped by the carrot and stick approach; we're too trained to play for the shiny items, so game makers make games like this. But I'm pretty sure what I would actually *enjoy* is being a badass fighting equally badass enemies, being a space ninja. They could keep the rewards as part of the "grindy, destroy tons of enemies" part of the game, and make this second game type be all about the challenge. That, would keep me really interested.

[rhoenix]

I think that's the main problem, Mesadeath. There are only two parts of the game in Warframe: endless grind to get what items you want (warframe/weapons), OR high level defense/survival to see how long you can exploit gameplay flaws to keep enemies immobile and unable to attack you while using buffs to be able to kill them.

 

That's it.

 

What I want, is an endgame that is not reward based, as in giving you an item/blueprint/ingredient/part, but instead giving a real change in gameplay. I don't want the only point to Warframe being a treadmill. What I want, is for the game to have a new layer, which changes the game from using powerful weapons to devastate 100s of enemies, to being a game where there's only a few enemies, all of which are nearly as difficult as me to kill, and which require me and my team to use tactics, abilities, and the game's mobility mechanics, parkour, etc, to defeat them.

 

Aka, change the game from a level 90 in World of Warcraft farming tons of level 1s, to something like Ninja Gaiden. PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying get rid of the "destroy tons of enemies" part of the game, I'm saying, ADD a "defeat a few really badass clever enemies" part of the game.

 

I think us gamers are kind of trapped by the carrot and stick approach; we're too trained to play for the shiny items, so game makers make games like this. But I'm pretty sure what I would actually *enjoy* is being a badass fighting equally badass enemies, being a space ninja. They could keep the rewards as part of the "grindy, destroy tons of enemies" part of the game, and make this second game type be all about the challenge. That, would keep me really interested.

Excellently put, I have to say.

Tenno are fearsome warriors, made to take on the best, and win. This aspect isn't shown as well by clearing through hordes of enemies, though it does emphasize the uphill slog the Tenno have to take, in-game.

The addition of missions where you'd have far fewer, but far more powerful enemies would go quite a way toward helping this game feel fresh, as well as other, smaller touches - like if you find an Orokin artifact in a mission, you can use it to go a part of the Void you couldn't access from keys.

I could definitely support such changes.

[ThePresident777]

Mass Effect 3 has a cover system and no one uses it because it gets you killed.  I hate that game.

[Azure_Kytia]

Inb4 end-game content revolving around Tenno, Grineer and Corpus teaming up to battle the sentients in UT style assault missions revolving around protecting Orokin Void Fortresses housing thousands of sleeping Tenno.

Personally, I'd absolutely LOVE a Jet Force Gemini approach where components are hidden throughout the various tilesets to build a ship to access special places. Interstellar travel to aforementioned missions, perhaps? Even having one or two missions that have a process of events instead of one or two things would go a long way towards making things interesting.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Azure_Kyte

[Fundance]

The problem is, game developers these days need to build their games around unskilled gamers.

 

Nobody wants to be told they suck and have to get better. They want instant gratification without having to actually put any time into learning the game, because that kind of thing is so boring, right? Only nerds with no lives have time for that, durp durp.

 

So for that reason, developers have to resort to making lazy players FEEL like they are progressing while still giving them some sort of simplistic game patterns to follow. Grinding objectives are one of the easiest ways to accomplish this, as are 'swarm' type enemies that are individually weak to kill due to low stats and bad AI. Numbers are much easier for the average gamer to manage than a single strong enemy who has a more advanced AI and may be able to outplay the player.

 

Everyone who's calling for the Ninja Gaiden style of game design has to keep this in mind - in a perfect world, casuals would enjoy learning how to beat strong opponents and clever enemies like the ones found in NInja Gaiden. In the real world, that would cause DE's profits to suffer immensely as gamers whine incessantly about how the game is too hard and has too much stuff to learn.

[Azure_Kytia]

Pretty much. 

At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to provide areas that are of challenge to players of varying skill levels that don't impact on the overall enjoyment of everywhere else.

 

[rhoenix]

Both Fundance and Azure_Kyte make good points. While due to the reflex-oriented gameplay of Warframe there must be a grinding aspect, for several reasons, I'd like to see something like Void Dungeons, or something.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly not the best player in existence, but I'd still really like to see how good I really am against a smaller side-dungeon, where one boss has a few minions who will happily beat you into the floors, walls, and ceiling if you're not ready for them.

[Jithvan]

Been here since closed beta, and this is the first time I heard the word "Boring"

[Tyroki]

Err... we can switch sides. Does that help?

Push H.

 

 

Otherwise, I'm with Fundance.

[matrixEXO]

In the real world, that would cause DE's profits to suffer immensely as gamers whine incessantly about how the game is too hard and has too much stuff to learn.

Isn't the game already doing that? On top of overabundance of damage types, weapons and special effects being tied to some weapons, there are tons of things that the tutorial doesn't teach players (how to use mods, how to upgrade mods, how to slide, how to do wallrun chaining, how to effectively use objects as cover, how to melee from wallrun, etc). This game's doing what you just said that would cause DE to suffer. And there are people who already do (I invited a friend of mine to play pre-tutorial 2.0 and he said that the game is too hard and dropped it even though he played with his friends cause he feels it's a bit slow and easy to die. Also teaching him how to wallrun and slide made his life easier as he plainly put it that "the tutorial doesn't teach those".). And I played the whole tutorial over again just 2 days ago on PS4 and they only thought was how to run, wallrun, shoot, change weapons, use regular melee attacks and use a skill.

 

So, what do new players have to learn? A lot. I don't think Ninja Gaiden forces a player to learn 10 damage types' effects on other enemies nor do they blur out movement actions like how sliding and chain wallrunning isn't really known to new players. Codex may make life easier but then one should already be asking about what EACH damage type is causing WHAT effect which then forces... WIKI! Forcing a player to use Wiki is prove of a badly designed game. Unless they are trying to shoo off new players (or more casual players).

 

Ok, so matrixEXO and Gryphticon both appear to think that Warframe is boring, and not evolving much.

I'm just curious, so I'll ask the both of you - what's your specific criteria for saying so? I've seen quite a bit of progress since I joined, and many, many hints as to where the developers are going from here.

I, at least, meant about the gameplay. It's still lacking anything solid for what is meant to be a "ninja" game with some stealth element as stealth is not  properly done up even after DE talked about it since the first livestream Q&A. On top of that, the missions are too samey, like I said in my post above yours that it's always about killing. Nothing else about killing.

 

Why can't we have a mission where the objective is to infiltrate a ship without being detected at all to steal an intel vital to identifying the next target of the Grineer or have a timed running & parkouring mission that has us escaping a vessel we just boarded because the mission location was a trap and the ship's about to explode? There are so many things that DE can do as long as they update their mechanics and that they don't really do. Parkouring is still not totally fleshed out (as some people are saying about the hopping over low railings) and stealth is dead for eternity (if you don't have Shade or any character with invisibility skills).

Edited January 4, 2014 by matrixEXO

[AbathurX]

The cover system will never happened, DE said something about it in a livestream.

 

I gotta agree 1000000000000000% in that blocking part. I am a sucker for blocking and I am really mad at how it is right now

 

1) blocking should NOT use stamina when its not blocking anything or nothing at all.

2) blocking should block all the damage or near 90%

[Noabettiet]

Ok, apparently everyone or at least a good part of you guys weighted my discussion solo on the tittle and ignored the rest.

Cover system or not, what i mean is for mobility to play a better part of the gameplay: killing with style.

 

Anyone could run behind a wall, wait for the fire-fight to stop and shields to regenerate. Using puncture mods while on cover are really fun and i agree with that, what i am suggesting is more fun like that.

 

I actually find this imbalances to be entertaining. 

If you want a game that is made so we're all happy rainbows and everything does exactly the same dps but in different ways and everything is telegraphed and said then it grows even more boring, at least to me. 

Warframe is pretty much all about random and such random makes it fun, to me. If you want step-by-step measured encoutners-enemies-missions and the lick you can play the big MMO's out there which have scripted battles with same and continous patterns. 

You are an fine example of someone who ignored everything i said on my post. 

 

And yet you have over 3000 posts here on the forums, for a game you think is boring?

I began playing right after the Beta turned from closed to open, and I'm still here. The game is certainly not finished yet (the fact that most maps don't have their own unique tilesets yet, weapons are still being balanced, plot elements haven't really been added yet, etc.), but the work the developers have and are putting into the game is apparent. I will agree that DE should work more on communication of upcoming ideas to the player base, but as developers go, they do listen, and are responsive to constructive feedback more so than most.

Yes, i agree. The game is far from done. That is why i keep submitting disastrous and incomplete feedback.

And if you did read the first half of my post, i also agreed with the fact that this, by far, is one of the best and most dedicated devs i ever seen on a mmo.

 

However, that is not the point.

 

That just means you love mindlessly playing a game where you do the same things over and over again. PS: IT'S BORING!

 

I join Warframe because it had a concept that seems cool. I entered CBT and eventually made it to OBT. Warframe hasn't evolved into the ball of coolness that it managed to portray itself those days. If I may say, it has been stuck at the starting point since forever. Stealth (not invisible skills) is not working right, enemy AI are still a joke and the missions are all "Kill This! Kill That! Go Here and Kill Everything! Kill Things While You Go Here And Do Something!". I don't mind playing a farming game but it's boring when all it got for it is a 3D version of Diablo with no real ninja-feels to it. Where are the stealth missions? Where are the one-hit kills from behind (the stuffs ninjas are so famous for)?

 

I am still staying around to see how this game evolves but being a game running on Evolution Engine, the game isn't evolving much past what it was before.

Love warframe concept here too! Been with them ever since they actuality announced the game to public. But i just feel like it could be so much more. Just like you gave the example of--

[(PSN)Mrbund]

game is boring.  collecting items with over-powered characters with little or not need for any strategy or teamplay is a boring game.  it's a collecting game.  might as well be Pokemon.

 

long way to go for this company to make this game interesting.  been on for a couple weeks and I've been trying to stay interested, hoping that some updates will make the game better, but I can't see it happening.

 

just waiting for other games to arrive on the market.  lost interest in Warframe in the past few days.