Addressing Criticisms Towards Update 7.

[Tangerine]

Before I get flamed to hell, I should say I don't agree entirely with the update nor am I constantly agreeing with everything the devs do (i.e. a fanboy), but I really do think most of the rampant criticisms towards the update are unjustified. As such this is a thread addressing and discussing said problems (and for a few of the points I'm making, I am very much playing devil's advocate), adding another dimension to Update 7 feedback other than just "it's bad", if you feel like you disagree, this thread is entirely open to discussion. INCOMING WALL OF TEXT.

1. "I lost all my mods and now I have to grind all over again". "I'm too weak now".

That's the nature of betas, things consistently get wiped. It does suck to lose all the progress you've put into the game, but you have to expect it when you play betas. With the mod reset, you can't expect to run high level planets and do well and that's where I'm seeing alot of complaints. It sucks majorly, but anyone who has ever played a beta should have known one day it would happen. You're going to need to run low level planets again. Defense missions are particularly good to obtain mods.

2. Fuse costs are way too high.

I agree this is very problematic at the moment, most in part due to a variety of issues. First off I'll say that fusing cards to high levels should take a decent amount of effort and credits (e.g. obtaining 120% pistol multishot). Stats like those should be sought after and held in the spotlight because they are incredibly powerful, rather than simply dropping 100 creds and becoming an overpowered walking meat grinder. On the other hand, costs are much too high at the moment and with the nerf to selling mods, credits are hard to come by. This puts players in a pretty dire situation, so that needs to be remedied. But there is reason for fuse costs being high, it's just that they're 'too' high right now and have absurd fuse requirements (i.e. the number of fusion cores and duplicates required). Devs need to introduce more ways to earn credits, because credit dumping is now takes up a huge factor of character progression.

3. Leveling is useless now, (level 30 frames and lvl 1 frames are exactly the same).

Directly, yes. But keep in mind that leveling increases your mod capacity, and that's where leveling attains a large amount of usefulness. An increase in mod capacity allows you to fuse one of your cards to high levels (because a high level card requires greater mod capacity) or slot in a new card, which equates to a stat increase. The difference here is that pre-7 you chose from health, shields or some ability node, whereas now you choose from whatever card you have and whatever upgrade you want. Power efficiency, sprint speed, health for warframes, or for weapons multishot, elemental damage, critical damage etc. A level increase accompanies a mod capacity increase, and a mod capacity increase accompanies a stat increase of your choosing or even the introduction of an entirely new stat from a new mod. This is what differentiates a lvl 30 frame to a lvl 1 frame, the 30 will have a much higher mod capacity, which means much high leveled mods and higher stats than the lvl 1 frame. However this system is troublesome because it means that progression is entirely reliant on RNG (random number generator). There needs to be passive upgrades when leveling in order to mantain a solid, linear form of progression.

4. No stacking encourages diversification, you can't specialize into a stat anymore.

Yes you can't stack, but that does not encourage diversification nor does it mean you can't specialize. Mods cannot stack, but they CAN be upgraded, and when you upgrade, you're increasing the capacity the mod requires; all weapons and warframes have limited mod capacity. You won't be able to equip all your favorite fully maxed cards, you'll specifically have to choose from a limited range and specialize your frames or weapons accordingly, you're very much going to have some empty mod slots because of a maxed capacity. However this doesn't play out so well, because right now weapons and frames have a large mod capacity and certain cards even when maxed don't give that impressive stats. An amiable solution would be to reduce mod capacity and increase the stats+mod capacity requirements of certain mods.

5. There's too little mod slots.

This criticism actually contradicts with criticism #4. More mod slots actually encourages diversification and makes specializing meaningless. You won't need to focus your Warframe on certain stats or your melee on rate of fire etc. with more mod slots, you can just dump everything you want without worry. Your warframe for example will have 10 mod slots, 4 taken up by abilities. That's leaves 6 slots open for 6 mods, 6 stats. Increasing the amount of mod slots would give leeway to generalization.

Will add more as it comes.

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I also need to point out this update INTRODUCED the mod system, meaning the game can still take it further than where it currently stands. Remember, the game is beta, nothing is final.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Tangerine

[Zyfe3rX]

The majority of our community agree on #2 , pretty much everything else are from weaklins and cry babies.

+ You forgot about the SUPER HOT FIXES not fixing the bloody chat !

I really mean, WTF where the admins thinking when they introduced this bloody fusion system and fusion charges ?

[CosyPigeon]

None of the complaint's you listed are actually the main problems with update 7.

You've ignored the 2 main issues.

1. You cannot progress without shield mods, for allot of people, getting shield mods is currently impossible due to the hatred of RNG gods. Which leads directly too...

2. A progression system based solely on luck and items sucks, equipment needs minor passive boosts from levelling to help mitigate the utter randomness of mod drops.

Edited March 21, 2013 by CosyPigeon

[Tangerine]

None of the complaint's you listed are actually the main problems with update 7.

You've ignored the 2 main issues.

1. You cannot progress without shield mods, for allot of people, getting shield mods is currently impossible due to the hatred of RNG gods. Which leads directly too...

2. A progression system based solely on luck and items sucks, equipment needs minor passive boosts from levelling to help mitigate the utter randomness of mod drops.

Point 3 along with it's underlined note.

[CosyPigeon]

Point 3 along with it's underlined note.

I stand corrected.

[Taihus]

I agree about the basic stat increases. Perhaps you automatically get some stat increase mods every few levels?

[Namacyst]

Fusion:

Fuse mods with mods = cheap

Fuse mods with fusion cores = expensive

If you have not enough money and prices are too high you're doing it wrong.

(Exception are max lvl 10 mods which just get stupidly expensive past lvl 5-6)

[Testiculitis]

I totally agree on EVERYTHING you just stated here. Well dine, sir.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Synikal

[Brasten]

Fuse mods with fusion cores = expensive

Also buggy and inconsistent, and frankly illogical at times. (Some combinationsof fusions lower totals.)

[Tangerine]

I agree about the basic stat increases. Perhaps you automatically get some stat increase mods every few levels?

More likely that when you level, you choose basic upgrades like health, stamina, armor etc.

[Buddlschlumpf]

Some leveldependent stats increases would also allow for more specialization: if you are going for lets say a tank build, you may combine passive hp stats with some hp and armor mods.

[AugmentedJustice]

Only thing I'm angry about is the fuse prices. They are REDICULOUS. In a bad way.

[Blatantfool]

My problem with the Update is seriously simple.

I like most of Warframe - the game could be something great and I enjoy it. I have some issues with some features but otherwise the actual gameplay treats me well.

Like a lot of players I got pretty burnt out farming like crazy to get interesting gizmos to use. I just didn't want to play much anymore. The content couldn't keep it going for me. This comes as no surprise though - Warframe is unfinished and really the mission design didn't allow for many interesting things when I was grinding. I'm sure it'll evolve with times - but it is painfully bare bones for the time being.

So here I am - stuck in the "I would LIKE to start playing again but there is nothing for me to accomplish." boat.

And then Update 7 comes along and not only doesn't give me any reason to play - it puts the game in a weird state where I'm wondering if I even want to. I need to grind MORE now and even then I'm not going to be able to do some of the broken and seriously cool stuff I could have.

It is a very ugly situation. I can't imagine it would be much better for a new guy either.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Blatantfool

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

My problem with the Update is seriously simple.

I like most of Warframe - the game could be something great and I enjoy it. I have some issues with some features but otherwise the actual gameplay treats me well.

Like a lot of players I got pretty burnt out farming like crazy to get interesting gizmos to use. I just didn't want to play much anymore. The content couldn't keep it going for me. This comes as no surprise though - Warframe is unfinished and really the mission design didn't allow for many interesting things when I was grinding. I'm sure it'll evolve with times - but it is painfully bare bones for the time being.

So here I am - stuck in the "I would LIKE to start playing again but there is nothing for me to accomplish." boat.

And then Update 7 comes along and not only doesn't give me any reason to play - it puts the game in a weird state where I'm wondering if I even want to. I need to grind MORE now and even then I'm not going to be able to do some of the broken and seriously cool stuff I could have.

It is a very ugly situation. I can't imagine it would be much better for a new guy either.

I agree. I came back to realize all my previous work is now S#&$ and I'm back on saturn. Furthermore if I grind the mods I need to make my character once again badass I then stare at him/her with all my maxed out mods and gear and go "now what?" Still no end game and no purpose. Other than logging on to kill some aliens for a mission or two there is no real reason to play this game besides if your into grinding. Original Poster did a good job as well.