Why Can't High End Bows Do As Much Damage As Sniper Rifles?

[Leuca]

But Ogris is the best bow.

Oh you. <3

[Faulcun]

I'm not comparing bows to Ogris/Soma/Etc. I'm comparing them to pretty much everything else in the game that isn't Lato tier. Like I said before, there is a rather large range of levels where non god-tier weapons are still effective, yet bows are blatantly just bad.

Maybe we should have a few games together. I'm willing to bet I can keep up with you.

 

But Ogris is the best bow.

LOL might as well be... same mechanics. Maybe we should all put zoom mods on it and call it a sniper rifle.

[NikolaiLev]

There is no balance between the weapons. Automatic rifles and rocket/grenade launchers own the battlefield along with Nova/Loki while all of the required skill is to press the left mouse button whenever you see a bigger group of enemies.

A well moded vectis can't 1-shot(unless you've got a banshee) a 70 lvl corpus tech, but you can 4-shot it with Soma(from a similiar range) - taking 1/3 of the time needed to reload and aim another shot with the said vectis. So I suppose somewhere something went wrong...

 

Sadly true.  I really hope there's a big balance patch down the line that gets rid of mastery requirements and makes each gun at least close to unique.

[Leuca]

Maybe we should have a few games together. I'm willing to bet I can keep up with you.

I actually use Paris Prime for fun most of the time; go figure. ;)

[Pure]

Dude read weapon descriptions. The Bows have a "magnetic field to launch arrows capable of impaling enemies to walls." In other words, not only is it future string, with a compound bow of super allows being drawn by someone with super strength, but it also has super science to help launch the arrows.

 

if that is true then why does the arrow drop when you spam.  if it were amplified you would barely have to pull it.

[Faulcun]

I was discussing this with another clan member and I realized something I didnt know before. I was re-leveling the paris prime to do a video against grineer and I noticed something different about it compared to the dread. Ive always liked the dread better and have always used it above the paris prime.

 

Ive been refering to the penetration on death, and some of you have been talking about the knock back. The paris prime ONLY knocks enemies back. The dread will actually deal full damage to enemies in line on death. I double checked the wiki to be sure about it. The only trick about the dread is that it only works on enemies. You cannot shoot through walls or objects.

 

This is why ive never needed to use shred on the dread. There has never been a need for it. The paris prime does.... which sucks because id rather have the faster speed trigger.

[Leuca]

I was discussing this with another clan member and I realized something I didnt know before. I was re-leveling the paris prime to do a video against grineer and I noticed something different about it compared to the dread. Ive always liked the dread better and have always used it above the paris prime.

 

Ive been refering to the penetration on death, and some of you have been talking about the knock back. The paris prime ONLY knocks enemies back. The dread will actually deal full damage to enemies in line on death. I double checked the wiki to be sure about it. The only trick about the dread is that it only works on enemies. You cannot shoot through walls or objects.

 

This is why ive never needed to use shred on the dread. There has never been a need for it. The paris prime does.... which sucks because id rather have the faster speed trigger.

Actually, their mechanics appear to be the same numerically in that regard. Enemies hit by the flying body from Paris/Paris Prime will take the full damage of the shot, whereas the Dread instead cuts through its target. I simply use Shred because it makes that effect even stronger, for both weapons actually. It also allows your weapon to continue to do damage to more enemies longer than if you did not have it, since all bows require the death of their target for the effect to take place under normal circumstances. Shred will allow you to have both faster trigger speed and hit multiple targets even if your first shot doesn't kill.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Leuca

[Faulcun]

I really dont believe the paris prime does. Ive been watching them get knocked over and get back up. I never had that problem with the dread. The enemies stay down cause they are dead.

[Leuca]

I really dont believe the paris prime does. Ive been watching them get knocked over and get back up. I never had that problem with the dread. The enemies stay down cause they are dead.

I'm not sure how else I can be killing 2-3 enemies with one shot after removing Split Chamber and Shred. I literally just tested with them both removed.

Edit: As a fun note, I actually sometimes saw multiple element procs occur when this happened.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Leuca

[bejuizb]

Screw you all just launch saw blades at enemies and be done with this petty argument. Moving on bows do need a damage buff or something... Or a mod that lets you shoot 3 arrows at once (yes I'm aware split chamber exists, but I mean we actually watch our tenno pull out 3 arrows and shoot them all Hawkeye style.)

Dude....c'mon. No one can shoot 3 arrows at once. It's utter nonsense. Sure split chamber is nonsense in that case as well, but remember this: bows are crit weapons, and with 8 slots for mods, it's just enough to throw on damage, elemental and crit builds to make bows even comparable to sniper rifles in metagame. We might need 10 slots or so if we needed to add another mod that boosts damage. 

 

Your idea implies sacrificing one component of the build for added damage, probably with a loss on accuracy.

 

Not worth it, considering the fact that accuracy is the primary thing you need with a bow.

[HAYABU5A]

an easy fix would be to give bows a much higher status chance than sniper rifles giving them a niche mechanic to reliably inflict your chosen status 

 

grataka has already shown how deadly it scales with viral procs for example 

[-CM-Syein]

considered mastery lvl as well/ Heck, paris is mastery lvl 0. 

[Faulcun]

I'm not sure how else I can be killing 2-3 enemies with one shot after removing Split Chamber and Shred. I literally just tested with them both removed.

Edit: As a fun note, I actually sometimes saw multiple element procs occur when this happened.

ill have to check it again under better conditions. maybe ill record the results ths time.

[Yastin]

Dude....c'mon. No one can shoot 3 arrows at once. It's utter nonsense. Sure split chamber is nonsense in that case as well, but remember this: bows are crit weapons, and with 8 slots for mods, it's just enough to throw on damage, elemental and crit builds to make bows even comparable to sniper rifles in metagame. We might need 10 slots or so if we needed to add another mod that boosts damage. 

 

Your idea implies sacrificing one component of the build for added damage, probably with a loss on accuracy.

 

Not worth it, considering the fact that accuracy is the primary thing you need with a bow.

 

I have a bow IRL... And, to be honest, I've shot 3 arrows at once, before. admittedly as more of a joke, but it can be done. They don't have that nice even spread that videogames seem to think, but it's entirely possible to send multiple arrows down-range at once. I would think even more so for a space-ninja.

[Leuca]

an easy fix would be to give bows a much higher status chance than sniper rifles giving them a niche mechanic to reliably inflict your chosen status 

 

grataka has already shown how deadly it scales with viral procs for example 

Grakata scales well with status because it has rapid fire. A bow will not be able to rapidly apply status effects; buffing status chance to make them niche won't put out any significantly better numbers.

[NikolaiLev]

Grakata scales well with status because it has rapid fire. A bow will not be able to rapidly apply status effects; buffing status chance to make them niche won't put out any significantly better numbers.

 

Unless you buff it to 80%.  The Grakata scales well with status because at base it has 20% status.

[Leuca]

Unless you buff it to 80%.  The Grakata scales well with status because at base it has 20% status.

No. Even if you have a guaranteed proc every shot it will not make up for the fire rate/base damage, and the Grakata will still apply status faster, ending up with more corrosive/viral/etc application and more dps.

[NikolaiLev]

No. Even if you have a guaranteed proc every shot it will not make up for the fire rate/base damage, and the Grakata will still apply status faster, ending up with more corrosive/viral/etc application and more dps.

 

Yeah, the Grakata is intended to be a short range DPS monster.  Though I think the most recent buffs to the Grakata were utterly unnecessary and pushed it into overpowered territory.

[Leuca]

Yeah, the Grakata is intended to be a short range DPS monster.  Though I think the most recent buffs to the Grakata were utterly unnecessary and pushed it into overpowered territory.

Bows either need a flat damage/crit rate/multiplier buff, or some unique mechanic like guaranteed knockback/domino damage regardless of whether or not the shot kills. Buffing a slow fire-rate weapon with status chance is almost meaningless.

[NikolaiLev]

Bows either need a flat damage/crit rate/multiplier buff, or some unique mechanic like guaranteed knockback/domino damage regardless of whether or not the shot kills. Buffing a slow fire-rate weapon with status chance is almost meaningless.

 

Honestly I'd prefer just straight up damage boosts.  Same with sniper rifles.

 

If they're gonna hit hard, make them hit hard.

[Faulcun]

So what exactly do you want? A simple damage buff doesnt change the learning curve on the weapon. It just means when you get lucky and hit something it might die without having to spend days using forma to max it out.

 

Or should we just make the bows automatic weapons? Just push a button and fling 40 arrows in random directions with toxic effect. Then we all run and hide and wait for everything to die like real grand master space ninjas.

[LazyKnight]

Bows either need a flat damage/crit rate/multiplier buff, or some unique mechanic like guaranteed knockback/domino damage regardless of whether or not the shot kills. Buffing a slow fire-rate weapon with status chance is almost meaningless.

It wouldn't hurt to make bows a 100% proc weapon, regardless of whatever else de does to them. 

 

Most of the time the proc effect desired from bows is the Gas proc to be spread to surrounding NPC or the blast proc knocking them down. All the other proc effects are completely wasted because the bow is more likely than not going to kill the target rendering a proc on the target hit wasted.

[Noble_Cactus]

The problem there being that you'll probably just get a bunch of Impact or Slash procs. 20-30% proc chance right now isn't too shabby, and I get procs fairly often as it is. It's just that on my Dread, they're often Slash instead of Viral/Magnetic.

[LazyKnight]

The problem there being that you'll probably just get a bunch of Impact or Slash procs. 20-30% proc chance right now isn't too shabby, and I get procs fairly often as it is. It's just that on my Dread, they're often Slash instead of Viral/Magnetic.

At least getting a slash proc on a charged fired Dread will give the NPC a fairly lethal ticking bleed-out, the other bows not so much.

[Makya]

So what exactly do you want? A simple damage buff doesnt change the learning curve on the weapon. It just means when you get lucky and hit something it might die without having to spend days using forma to max it out.

Isn't that the point of the OP? The OP doesn't talk about learning curves, only damage.