Petition To Restore Overheat To Ember

[Nyxcha]

You're saying "fast rhino" as if it's a bad thing. 

 

Unlike Nyx, Ember can't keep herself out of harm's way all the time simply by spamming her skills, and is still, to a degree, required to be in the fray rather than "cast this and run away to a safer spot". True, with accelerant you can evade melee enemies well enough unless some of them decide to come out of it too fast, but no matter the damage, some mobs will still hit you, especially if those mobs have range. At least they hit me, so I guess mileage varies.

 

There is nothing to design I'm suggesting that would lead to overpowered frames on it's own. I'm not saying "Make ember unkillable, lol!" I'm just saying that she was a very, very nice tanky DoT caster. And I'm sounding like a terrible hypocrite right about now, but I would like to have a warframe that can pull off being a DoT damage dealer well, as opposed to instant damage of nuke-ultimates. 

 

The way I see it, Ember could have been turned into a close range killing machine, using her third to create an area that buffs fire damage and stuns/damages all who come through the ring, her fourth as a persistent DoT damage and her second to let her survive hugging enemies in that killcage of sorts, with her first being a situational explosive CC. But that's just my point of view, and as persistant as I am with showing it into everyones faces, it's not the way she is ever going to be, not with her skillset being reworked into being as good as she was before all the reworks.

seriously, her skill set is so close combat it hurts to not have a survival mechanic

[BloodArmoredApostle]

overheat for what accelerant does great for stun and weapon damage if used right...i dont understand why you would trade accelerant for a ability that had so little use for higher level enemies. It was near useless after doing tier 2 enemies.

Edited April 4, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[Nyxcha]

overheat for what accelerant does great for stun and weapon damage if used right...i dont understand why you would trade accelerant for a ability that had so little use for higher level enemies. It was near useless after doing tier 2 enemies.

w8 what?

 

overheat had little use for higher level enemies?

 

pre nerf overheat let you go fkin warlock on them. spammin your fire skills while swinging your melee weapon around like a berserker with 92% dmg res

 

nerfed overheat was a bit harder, with 70% max dmg res, but it let you get in the middle of the enemy group. activate your skills, and get out before dying or losing to much hp.

 

 

if you tried to do that with accelerant you would die cause your stun wouldnt give you enough time to pop a fire skills

[GTG3000]

What he said, old overheat was providing player with reliable survivability. Enemies couldn't just decide to stop taking it into account at random.

[BenHoliday]

 

Accelerant is a neat skill, but even with all the dodging and kiting it can't keep Ember alive without someone, say Nekros, Trinity or Oberon providing constant stream of healing, even as early as wave 20 ODD, it just stops stunning reliably. An ancient that decided that being stunned is too mainstream is a nasty surprise, let me tell you.

 

Which is why I stand on TOP of the pod and shoot from there. It also has the nice side effect of letting WoF hit enemies from all sides. Better yet, if you don't have a vauban you can use Accelerant when enemies group up, which stuns them briefly, but lets WoF clear them out faster (much faster if you've got Blind Rage and/or Intensify which also modifies the fire weakness from Accelerant.) Yeah, it is kinda repetitive to clear up loot between waves and then rush back, but when has ODD not been repetitive?

[Break-Away]

What's even more funny is that pretty much all the other "squishy" frames have something that allows them to survive in High end content without too much problem. (Volt and Zephyr have a shield, Nekros has a buffer, Nyx... well you get the point. Then we got Ember...)

 

Not even gonna lie, Ember used to be in my top 3 most used frames, but after the change I don't even touch her anymore. It seems she is only useful now if your entire kit is fire based.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Break-Away

[GTG3000]

Which is why I stand on TOP of the pod and shoot from there. It also has the nice side effect of letting WoF hit enemies from all sides. Better yet, if you don't have a vauban you can use Accelerant when enemies group up, which stuns them briefly, but lets WoF clear them out faster (much faster if you've got Blind Rage and/or Intensify which also modifies the fire weakness from Accelerant.) Yeah, it is kinda repetitive to clear up loot between waves and then rush back, but when has ODD not been repetitive?

 

Ancients still can reach me there, and fireblast doesn't reach creeps on the floor if you cast it ontop... Still, that doesn't remove the danger of any other heavy shaking off the cc too soon.

[IfritKajiTora]

Agreed a million times over.

Ember is absolutely terrible now. Paper thin armour, mediocre damage, and negligible CC.

 

Bring back overheat!

I want her armor back but as a 3th SKill

I don't use 3th skill because it isn't good

[sanj66]

w8 what?

 

overheat had little use for higher level enemies?

 

pre nerf overheat let you go fkin warlock on them. spammin your fire skills while swinging your melee weapon around like a berserker with 92% dmg res

 

nerfed overheat was a bit harder, with 70% max dmg res, but it let you get in the middle of the enemy group. activate your skills, and get out before dying or losing to much hp.

 

 

if you tried to do that with accelerant you would die cause your stun wouldnt give you enough time to pop a fire skills

right and it was ok for a caster to out tank the tanks then, so you want another nova look alike running around in this game its already bad with all the novas already, there is no reason for a caster with good damaging skills and damaging buff to also be able to tank, that is just making it pointless to even use other frames other than mastery points.

[Nyxcha]

right and it was ok for a caster to out tank the tanks then, so you want another nova look alike running around in this game its already bad with all the novas already, there is no reason for a caster with good damaging skills and damaging buff to also be able to tank, that is just making it pointless to even use other frames other than mastery points.

it wouldnt be the same as nova.

nova is all offense and has ALOT more potential dmg than Ember.  also keep in mind ember's world on fire doesnt hit everything in its range, nor do the blasts in world on fire hit multiple enemies.

 

ember HAD a survivability mechanic, nova doesn't. nova is able to deal damage from range while ember has to be close range

 

nova is fast, while ember is one of the slower frames in the game

also keep in mind nova has more htan double the potential dmg res ember has.

 

in addition nova's ultimate slows down enemies, making it easier for nova to escape or move.

 

ember's doesn't slow, stagger, stun, or knockdown enemies. nor is the fire proc 100%

 

 

 

 

now for the tank part, ember is close range, so obviously she needs something to enable her to survive in that range. 

she's also COMPLETELY dependent on energy as she has no armor, speed, or above average shields/hp. so energy could be considered her limiter

the pre nerf overheat might have been a bit overkill, i will not deny that

though with valkyr's invicibility lasting over a minute potentially its hard to argue it was overpowered

 

the nerfed overheat was perfectly fine with me, it wasn't overpowered (being capped at what. 70% dmg res?) 

but removing it completely was NOT the right move

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Overheat was stupid and Nova's MP and AMD is broken.

 

/thread

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[GTG3000]

right and it was ok for a caster to out tank the tanks then, so you want another nova look alike running around in this game its already bad with all the novas already, there is no reason for a caster with good damaging skills and damaging buff to also be able to tank, that is just making it pointless to even use other frames other than mastery points.

 

Yes, yes it was okay. Caster doesn't equal glass cannon automatically. 

 

Ember's survivability depended on energy heavily, and in no way made her safe against the CC effects and such. Best protection it offered was "you can't get disrupted".

 

Now look at Rhino, who has IS, which protects him against procs, CC and damage alike. I wouldn't say he can survive worse than pre-nerf Ember.

 

Although of course, ther should have been a hard cap at 90% to her damage resist, and some other downsides to going around in overheat, but what will you do.

[RealPandemonium]

Stop putting Narrow Minded on your Ember so that you don't have to hump enemies to hurt them with your 4.  It's fine you choose to play Ember that way but don't be surprised when you die often and don't act like there isn't an alternative.  

[Nyxcha]

so how many of you really know what end game skills are?

 

answer. they are the skills that don't rely on enemy level to do something.

 

an example is Nyx's chaos or absorb. both skills work great no matter what level the enemy is

or trinity's link

another example is nova's antimatter drop, that gets dmg based on what its hit with. which means higher level enemys do more dmg and thus recieve more dmg.

 

Nova's molecular prime is also end game, but not for the dmg. its end game for the 50% movement speed debuff it does.

 

heck even Valkyr's hysteria and rip line are end game as they provide invincibility and a tool to move around.

 

 

so what end game does ember have?

fireball. no, it relys on dmg. no other effects

accelerant. nope, stun is 1 secound which is pathetic enough as is. 

fireblast, relys on dmg. 

world on fire, does not stun/stagger/knockdown.

 

so in the end, ember really has no end game skills.

 

can she do endgame? with the right weapons yes.

or with the right teammates(who will be doing more work than if you had chosen a different frame)

 

but none of her skills are endgame.

overheat was, providing a dmg res along with dmg that IGNORED armor/dmg res.

[RealPandemonium]

Endgame is ~level 45,  Not 60 minute survivals.  The only skills that are viable in infinite content are the ones that bypass and trivialize gameplay.  They are not good skills, they are exploitable skills.  

[GTG3000]

Endgame is ~level 45,  Not 60 minute survivals.  The only skills that are viable in infinite content are the ones that bypass and trivialize gameplay.  They are not good skills, they are exploitable skills.  

 

If level 45 is endgame, then my name's potato farmer Alonzo mcNasty.

 

Truth is, lack of intentional endgame doesn't equal lack of endgame abilities. And even then, were all frames balanced to have level 45 as endgame, people wouldn't strive to go on for hours in survival.

[Phobose]

If level 45 is endgame, then my name's potato farmer Alonzo mcNasty.

 

 

This^ +1 take my like

[Monolake]

 

so what end game does ember have?

fireball. no, it relys on dmg. no other effects

accelerant. nope, stun is 1 secound which is pathetic enough as is. 

fireblast, relys on dmg. 

world on fire, does not stun/stagger/knockdown.

 

so in the end, ember really has no end game skills.

 

can she do endgame? with the right weapons yes.

or with the right teammates(who will be doing more work than if you had chosen a different frame)

 

but none of her skills are endgame.

overheat was, providing a dmg res along with dmg that IGNORED armor/dmg res.

So you never played Ember since change?  

Problem was that everyone used Overheat only, making Ember the best tank (not counting Trinity) and her abilities did become useless past mid levels back then. Ember was changed to be a worthy damage frame with Accelerant and tank ability was removed - thats the role DE wants her to be. 

[Nyxcha]

So you never played Ember since change?  

Problem was that everyone used Overheat only, making Ember the best tank (not counting Trinity) and her abilities did become useless past mid levels back then. Ember was changed to be a worthy damage frame with Accelerant and tank ability was removed - thats the role DE wants her to be. 

you talking about pre or post nerf overheat.

 

cause remember theres 2 of them

[GTG3000]

you talking about pre or post nerf overheat.

 

cause remember theres 2 of them

 

He's talking about pre-nerf, obviously. Pre-nerf Overheat was the S#&$.

 

Sadly, every other her ability wasn't really, since none of them was applying CC or being utility in any way. Now we have armour that doesnt' scale on it's own, and her survivability was changed into a damage buff, so lo and behold - suddenle, having about same abilities, she now has enough damage to pull through 30 waves of ODD! Astounding!

 

Less astounding is that her new CC isn't consistent or long enough to save her in case she actually needs to brawl with the enemies. Especially seeing how she still lacks something to make using her DoT ulti safe enough unless she is constantly out of enemy's reach.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

so how many of you really know what end game skills are?

 

answer. they are the skills that don't rely on enemy level to do something.

 

an example is Nyx's chaos or absorb. both skills work great no matter what level the enemy is

or trinity's link

another example is nova's antimatter drop, that gets dmg based on what its hit with. which means higher level enemys do more dmg and thus recieve more dmg.

 

Nova's molecular prime is also end game, but not for the dmg. its end game for the 50% movement speed debuff it does.

 

heck even Valkyr's hysteria and rip line are end game as they provide invincibility and a tool to move around.

 

 

so what end game does ember have?

fireball. no, it relys on dmg. no other effects

accelerant. nope, stun is 1 secound which is pathetic enough as is. 

fireblast, relys on dmg. 

world on fire, does not stun/stagger/knockdown.

 

so in the end, ember really has no end game skills.

 

can she do endgame? with the right weapons yes.

or with the right teammates(who will be doing more work than if you had chosen a different frame)

 

but none of her skills are endgame.

overheat was, providing a dmg res along with dmg that IGNORED armor/dmg res.

 

What an utter pile of rubbish. 

 

"end game" is not whatever lvl people can hit because they use broken mechanics or want to grind for an hour or more because they want to satisfy their ego. DE has already said that things are designed around lvl 40-45, max. That's the highest lvl on the Star map. Endless defence is not a measure to balance things around and is not end game. 

 

F*** it, there is no end game at the moment, it keeps going until you fail. 

 

Certain powers give better utility because by their very nature they don't deal damage. 

 

Nyx, Vauban, Loki etc. all have them. And none of those powers cause significant lvls of damage, they are dedicated CC, also all are dependent on weapons, and the mods which inflate damage out of all proportion in comparison to dedicated frame power damage, which is Why Loki can crit. lvl 60+ mobs with a Galantine when using radia disarm and invisibility. It doesn't mean any frame should be buffed to that lvl, ever; as, if the "end game" is endless as you say(either that or you're simply arbitrarily pulling numbers from thin air), the HP and armour inflate until your weapons cause so little damage and the melee attacks cause so much, Loki will get OHK'd by an enemy prova hit!

 

That's your end game. Infinite scaling. To say, well ember doesn't have end game survivability is monumentally stupid considering "end game" is endless and even if you have a 90% DR from overheat the enemy will take so little damage and deal so much in return that you'll still be killed by them at some point. 

 

You were never supposed to get to that lvl and nothing is balanced around it. Screw it, even Nova breaks down when you get high enough and MP's 200% damage buff still requires you to fire an entire clip into a target and the chain explosion doesn't scratch them and your weapons don't do anything. You want to buff her too?! if MP is an "end game" power at a lvl when all you use it for is the 50% slow, then it's crap, as when the enemy is unaffected again they're going to roflstomp you.

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Hyunsai]

You were never supposed to get to that lvl and nothing is balanced around it. Screw it, even Nova breaks down when you get high enough and MP's 200% damage buff still requires you to fire an entire clip into a target and the chain explosion doesn't scratch them and your weapons don't do anything. You want to buff her too?! if MP is an "end game" power at a lvl when all you use it for is the 50% slow, then it's crap, as when the enemy is unaffected again they're going to roflstomp you.

 

The funny thing is my Ember is doing as much damage and often more than Nova at those very high levels. Hell, we definitely need to buff Nova too...

 

 

 

No she isn't but it's the throught that counts.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Edited April 9, 2014 by Hyunsai

[RealPandemonium]

The funny thing is my Ember is doing as much damage and often more than Nova at those very high levels. Hell, we definitely need to buff Nova too...

No she isn't but it's the throught that counts.

[Tony_Justice]

Signed to this petition. I really want to see Ember as good warframe again.

[NikolaiLev]

Overheat needs to stay gone. Will agree accelerant needs a longer stun though

 

Why?  No reasoning doesn't really help that argument.

 

I think Overheat should come back because without it, she's a dull nuker.