Melee 2.0: Single Pistols/weapons Should Be Equipable With Each Other

[Ronyn]

Sword in hand and pistol in the other....yeah sure. I don't have a problem with it but I don't particularly want it either.

 

But more importantly-ALL melee is getting buffed to get it to acceptable levels.

Trying to nerf the Dakra simply because all other single swords are terrible is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen here.

The Dakra is one of the only melee weapons that does remotely noticeable damage to high level enemies.

Honestly I'd rather DE use the Dakra as the basic blueprint on how to design a single sword then go from there.

 

Sure having a few melee weapons being comparatively too strong to other melee weapons can certainly be an issue.

but having 90 percent of the melee weapons in the game being completely behind the curve compared to guns is much more problematic.

SO first things first. Let's get the melee weapons to a solid baseline where they are generally effective....

cause right now melee is way behind in most cases.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Ronyn

[ThePresident777]

Since it's still far off, there's still time to make a suggestion for it.  Allow animations and attacks making us of a single pistol and a single one-handed weapon.

 

Right now, there's very little reason to use single weapons most of the time; single swords generally lack multi-target swings which is a huge drawback, with little benefit (an exception is the Heat Sword).  Sidearms suffer from the same issue; there's no reason to use a Furis when you can have two.

 

Ideally, these would be adjusted so they were balanced; dual pistols could be made more inaccurate to give them an actual drawback (currently they're about as accurate as long as you fire slowly).  However, melee 2.0 brings about an interesting prospect; the ability to use a sword or dagger with a pistol.

 

This would only be possible if you had a single pistol and a single sword.  While you could make the argument that you could do the same thing if you had dual pistols/swords, that would ruin the point of the gameplay balance part of this.

 

This stance would have unique animations and moves, allowing you to combo pistol shots and strikes with your melee weapon's attacks.

 

I'm not a fan of punative or coercive game designs.  Something does not have to be an advantage or disadvantage to be fun.

 

I like the idea of using a pistol and melee weapon but not at the expense of making other alternatives worse.  Pistol+single handed melee could be very fun in it's own right without having to make other alternatives worse.

 

And, what could possibly be the mechanism for this?  The weapon mechanism for keyboard+mouse at the moment uses the mouse for firing weapons and aiming, uses the keyboard for melee attacks and the mouse for blocking.  It is not clear that this will change with Melee 2.0 even though you can holster your weapon and keep your melee weapon drawn in Melee 2.0.  It's also not clear to me what the difference will be between holstering your guns plus drawing your melee weapon in Melee 2.0.  One possiblity for having pistol and melee drawn is to use one mouse button to fire the pistol and another mouse button to swing melee weapon.  But, I 'm not sure that brings anything interesting to the game.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ThePresident777

[HillsAndTheSea]

I'm not a fan of punative or coercive game designs.  Something does not have to be an advantage or disadvantage to be fun.

 

the (many) people who min/max will tell you otherwise

[NikolaiLev]

you could just make it so that only weapons with a dual counterpart can be used with a melee, that would be their advantage over their counterparts

 

that way bolto + dakra is possible, but brakk + skana isnt

 

This is actually an excellent point.  Distinguishing between "light" and "heavy" sidearms would be quite reasonable, though the notion of a Lex being "light" is amusing to me.

 

That said, this should likely apply to melee weapons as well.  Thus the Dakra wouldn't be wieldable with a sidearm since it has no dual option.  There could be exceptions to this; the machete, perhaps the Prova, the Pangolin sword, and so on.  Single daggers should also be usable with a sidearm.

Edited January 31, 2014 by NikolaiLev

[ThePresident777]

the (many) people who min/max will tell you otherwise

 

Got a match?

[SnaleKing]

The pistol/close combat weapon combo is featured heavily in the warhammer 40k universe, and I think it could translate to warframe very well.

 

Exhibit A of badassery

 

as for how combos work, you could just left click to use pistol, E to use melee, like it does already, just without the delay of putting away the weapon, and pulling out the other. Very fast, very ninja transition from ranged to melee combat.

 

And I think that what melee weapons could be used would be anything currently one-handed- so basically just daggers and longswords. I

vote against using gauntlets with pistols, because imagine trying to punch someone while holding a pistol. Doesn't work that well... you'll jab them with the pistols barrel before your knuckles contact.

Edited January 31, 2014 by SnaleKing

[ThePresident777]

vote against using gauntlets with pistols, because imagine trying to punch someone while holding a pistol. Doesn't work that well... you'll jab them with the pistols barrel before your knuckles contact.

I

 

You can always use one hand to punch, or one hand to punch and the other hand to pistol whip.

[Amistyrja]

This is actually an excellent point.  Distinguishing between "light" and "heavy" sidearms would be quite reasonable, though the notion of a Lex being "light" is amusing to me.

We're already dual-wielding Lex anyway.

[NikolaiLev]

We're already dual-wielding Lex anyway.

 

Pretty much.  I find it disappointing that Aklex came out though.

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

The Dakra desperately needs to be nerfed

Personally, I think we'd all be better off to withhold judgments of "nerf/buff x melee weapon" until we actually see them in practice once Melee 2.0 is released.

[Shifty_Shuffler]

Hand cannons should be exempted from this,eg brakk, detron and bronco.

[GSrevolution]

-snip-

This is a really nice idea, take my +1.

 

As for dual pistol balance, if you feel they are too powerful, you could remove the ability to aim with them. Just have left click fire one pistol and right click fire the other one. Or, you could reduce the zoom level.

[HillsAndTheSea]

This is a really nice idea, take my +1.

 

As for dual pistol balance, if you feel they are too powerful, you could remove the ability to aim with them. Just have left click fire one pistol and right click fire the other one. Or, you could reduce the zoom level.

 

left mouse button: fire weapon

right mouse button: melee

 

blocking? whats that?

[AscendantWyvern]

I LOVE this idea. My only question would be how to implement it.

[DuWryght]

Phantasy Star Universe and PSO 2 says hello =)

[NikolaiLev]

Personally, I think we'd all be better off to withhold judgments of "nerf/buff x melee weapon" until we actually see them in practice once Melee 2.0 is released.

 

The Dakra is overpowered now, and given Damage 2.0, this is unlikely to change unless we say it needs to happen.

 

 

Hand cannons should be exempted from this,eg brakk, detron and bronco.

 

Agreed, though the Bronco is fairly weak and thus deserves this capability.  This would, essentially, be a way to buff those weaker weapons without having to just give them stat buffs.

 

This is a really nice idea, take my +1.

 

As for dual pistol balance, if you feel they are too powerful, you could remove the ability to aim with them. Just have left click fire one pistol and right click fire the other one. Or, you could reduce the zoom level.

 

Aiming is not a terribly important capability, and lower zoom level can actually help.  No one likes the Seer because of its massive zoom.

 

left mouse button: fire weapon

right mouse button: melee

 

blocking? whats that?

 

Blocking is currently not done with the right mouse button, and I don't see why they'd change that.

[HillsAndTheSea]

Blocking is currently not done with the right mouse button, and I don't see why they'd change that.

 

they are changing it with melee 2.0,

 

it was said that when you equip your melee weapon left mouse button becomes melee and right mouse is block

[NikolaiLev]

they are changing it with melee 2.0,

 

it was said that when you equip your melee weapon left mouse button becomes melee and right mouse is block

 

That's disappointing.  I was hoping the amount of moves would increase.  It doesn't really support the notion charge attacks will be comboable, either.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

That's disappointing.  I was hoping the amount of moves would increase.  It doesn't really support the notion charge attacks will be comboable, either.

 

LMB(click) = light attack

LMB(hold) = charged attack

RMB(click) = parry

RMB(hold) = block

 

After you click LMB for a light attack you can already click and hold for a following charge attack before the previous attack animation has finished, and so on.

 

What would really hold back comboing is if the divide between light and charge attack damage mods will stay. It has always discouraged comboing in melee 1.0 as you had to choose for which damage move you mod your weapon for. Even finishers, which you are automatically doing whether youre using light or charged attacks is only doing significant damage when built for charged damage. Yeah, melee mods are as much to blame for the state melee play is in as the weapons themselves are.

[Virt]

About the Dakra? Skana Prime is way more exclusive, but more useless. I think Skana Prime needs a few buffs/tweaks, and the Dakra a small nerf to balance them out. I feel that such an exclusive weapon shouldn't be weaker than one that can be so easily collected.

[LazyKnight]

The Dakra is overpowered now, and given Damage 2.0, this is unlikely to change unless we say it needs to happen.

How is it overpowered? It damage is nearly identical to reaper prime, and has less range.

 

If Dakra is nerfed Reaper prime should be nerfed too.

 

 

About the Dakra? Skana Prime is way more exclusive, but more useless. I think Skana Prime needs a few buffs/tweaks, and the Dakra a small nerf to balance them out. I feel that such an exclusive weapon shouldn't be weaker than one that can be so easily collected.

Skana prime will never be more than a place holder, DE isn't going to make exclusive pay-for-only items any more than mediocre.

Edited February 3, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Pep_Legend]

Don't nerf my Dakra, I don't want to be kicked in the balls for putting in the time to get a good weapon only to be forced into getting galatine....again. Dakra is strong because you have to play to get it, it is supposed to feel good and look good. Nerfing it would be a gigantic mistake, alienating all the players who took the time to get it. This is my plea to the one man in this forum determined to make Dakra a "no fun allowed" weapon.

[NikolaiLev]

How is it overpowered? It damage is nearly identical to reaper prime, and has less range.

 

If Dakra is nerfed Reaper prime should be nerfed too.

 

 

Skana prime will never be more than a place holder, DE isn't going to make exclusive pay-for-only items any more than mediocre.

 

Its damage is superior to the Reaper Prime.  That said, Dakra is primarily overpowered compared to the other longswords, where it's disgustingly superior to them.  But you have a point.  This could be an instance where buffing the huge swath of longswords (and dual swords, too) would be a good idea.

 

Don't nerf my Dakra, I don't want to be kicked in the balls for putting in the time to get a good weapon only to be forced into getting galatine....again. Dakra is strong because you have to play to get it, it is supposed to feel good and look good. Nerfing it would be a gigantic mistake, alienating all the players who took the time to get it. This is my plea to the one man in this forum determined to make Dakra a "no fun allowed" weapon.

 

Just because you had to farm to get something doesn't mean that should be the only viable weapon in its class.  As it's been said before, the Orthos Prime, Dakra Prime and Galatine are top tier weapons.  That needs to change, be it by nerfing them or buffing everything else.

 

By the way, there isn't just one person on the forums who wants all weapons to be balanced against each other.  Though, unfortunately, they don't seem to post as often as I do.

 

I think it's awful how grindy prime weapons are, and think they should be far easier to get.  But they should be largely a style choice, perhaps with a different playstyle.  They shouldn't be Strictly Better weapons.

[LazyKnight]

Its damage is superior to the Reaper Prime.  That said, Dakra is primarily overpowered compared to the other longswords, where it's disgustingly superior to them.  But you have a point.  This could be an instance where buffing the huge swath of longswords (and dual swords, too) would be a good idea.

There are a ton of completely worthless(as in: no point in existing, period) weapons in melee. I had the distinct misfortune of grinding most of them getting my mastery rank 14. Grinding the long swords for master nearly made me quit the game, no joke.

 

There are so many weapons that are outright worthless against anything over level 10(novelty purpose does dissuade the fact a lato would be more effective). The daggers are far worse off than the long swords, and are board-line unusable.

 

This is one situation where It is more than justifiable to just increase all standard swing damage by as much as 30-50%, while some might need more than that.

 

Reaper prime, rapidly fall-off in usefulness long before charge attacks weapons are still viable. Standard swing weapons were ruined in a sense when they removed the stagger animation caused by melee, it is simply is not safe to hack away on an NPC.

Edited February 4, 2014 by LazyKnight

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

left mouse button: fire weapon

right mouse button: melee

 

blocking? whats that?

Blocking in this stance will be current melee button.

As for daggers, make them stagger on hit and give them 75% proc chance. Perfect single-target weapon.

Edited February 3, 2014 by (PS4)Lord_Gremlin