The Nova Conundrum

[Erondight]

If people really consider we all know that Nova's ultimate, as it is right now, is the dominant and most powerful caster ability in the game by an arm and a leg. A maximized 1800 damage base damage before taking into any consideration the double damage debuff and chaining effect of every nearby enemy. Usable on the move, in mid air, with a near instant cast time and a debuff duration that easily lets you clear up any straggler's who managed to escape the flash. Its an ability that makes any other P4W ability to shame and in my humble opinion actually can make the game rather boring as the lazy player archtype likes to spam it.

 

The point has been argued back and forth a thousand times in a thousand posts about the opinions of the player base. Honestly I don't feel the need to rehash the old arguments but suggestions do need to be made to keep the topic alive since the ability does honestly compel me to action. Molecular Prime is powerful on a scale that they tried to balance by making the frame a bit more delicate then most. Subpar armor, moderate shields and health, though admitedly she's a speed demon that can survive forever on her burst potential alone.

 

My idea to balance the ability is to make it more universal then just debuff enemies. Have Molecular Prime benefit the players, including Nova, caught in the burst as well by providing a long duration energy shield or armor buff to help offset the squishiness factor of the glass frame. Once that's in place the ability could be locked in the same way as Rhino's stomp or Nyx's chaos with the ability not being usable again until the 60 second buff/debuff dissipates. With this change DE could also rework the ability to be effected by power duration to either extend to shorten the buff based on player preference.

 

Edit to Clarify: The point of the buff is to put the duration of the ability cooldown on same 60 second duration as the double damage debuff. It would encourage more tactical use and midigate the glass frame aspects of Nova.

 

I honestly don't have an issue with the huge damage potential of the ability or the chaining effect of the long duration debuff like most the nerf choir does. My issue is with the ability to spam said ability every time theres an enemy within a moderate radius. If your not the player caught up in the power fantasy of mowing hordes of mindless drones to death it just makes the game easy and boring.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Jest3rX0

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Speaking as someone who plays Nova (disclaimer: I main Rhino), honestly I'd be happy with just making it a power in use ability ala chaos or stomp - there's always a few enemies who escape the flash and making it so you have to hunt them down before you cast again would keep you from spamming it.

That and making it affected by duration mods so fleeting expertise doesn't have all pro and no con.

[Bobsplosion]

I love threads where people point out the topic has been discussed to death already.

[OblivionNecroninja]

That and making it [Molecular Prime] affected by duration mods so fleeting expertise doesn't have all pro and no con.

I have suggested this on almost every Nova Balance Thread. Nobody ever listens :(

Edited February 9, 2014 by OblivionNecroninja

[-CM-Syein]

this thread is the same as every other Nova's thread here. Have you take a look at them and see the points of people who oppose the nerf? 

Also, current molecular prime already benefit the players including Nova. Because it work on mobs. 

The power that only benefit themselves instead of other players are invisibility, hysteria, smoke screen, turbulent etc. 

Nova already got stealth nerf. 

Power chain doesn't efficiency work on corpus compare to other faction/ nor does it work on non-hordes mobs. 

Best scaling ability but no longer chain explode at high lvl

low lvl, can be a spamming abilities, so is every aoe ults from other frames

Best dps power but not a best def, best solo, best survival 

I don't mind adding duration on m-prime. 

But the current Nova is not the best at everything. 

[Verryn]

Buff or nerf... I'm not sure what this really is.

[-Synapse-]

I think the fact that she goes splat if anything so much as sneezes in her general direction is enough to almost balance most of the damage she puts out. I wouldn't mind a longer cast time on Mprime and the Chaos-style recasting rules though, maybe then we'd see some other frames around for once.

[VKhaun]

Meh, I think people look at it wrong.

 

I see noteworthy additions since Nova like the Shield Polarize power being tuned up and Blind rage being added where it shifts the shield % above 100%. I see Acelerant giving an INSANE fire debuff that affects fire damage on guns as well. These things are easily on par with MPrime, but they're more specialized.

 

Even Oberon. No he's not super OP, but at LOW LEVELS where this works the best and it was always clearly meant that people could pwn lowbie stuff, he is very specialized in that he can do it almost infinitely when set up correctly with equilibrium and low shields. If you assume we're getting more specialized ways, farming mid to low level stuff for cores/resources IS a specialty.

 

I figure the devs had a meeting some time or another and decided/recognized that people LIKE feeling powerful, but they didn't want P4Win to be a thing at all, so they're going back and making frames to scratch that itch for people, but still create gameplay and choice. I view Nova as a placeholder in this. She's there so that anyone can still do P4Win while they do the dev work to fix all this and once we have another three to five specialized pwn stuff frames, then I figure they'll finally nerf Nova or instead, hopefully, alter her in some way to make her specialized as well.

Edited February 9, 2014 by VKhaun

[Thaumatos]

A maximized 1800 damage base damage before taking into any consideration the double damage debuff and chaining effect of every nearby enemy.

 

This isn't the problem.  The problem is that it's 1800 base damage in a radius per enemy within that radius.

 

It needs to be changed to function as Shield Polarize does.  No damage stacking.  That's all.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Thaumatos

[Xana_Skullsunder]

this thread is the same as every other Nova's thread here. Have you take a look at them and see the points of people who oppose the nerf? 

Also, current molecular prime already benefit the players including Nova. Because it work on mobs. 

The power that only benefit themselves instead of other players are invisibility, hysteria, smoke screen, turbulent etc. 

Nova already got stealth nerf. 

Power chain doesn't efficiency work on corpus compare to other faction/ nor does it work on non-hordes mobs. 

Best scaling ability but no longer chain explode at high lvl

low lvl, can be a spamming abilities, so is every aoe ults from other frames

Best dps power but not a best def, best solo, best survival 

I don't mind adding duration on m-prime. 

But the current Nova is not the best at everything. 

 

And you are the same thick person that POSTS in every Nova topic. Did you even read the post? Tell me.

[Calica_D]

This isn't the problem.  The problem is that it's 1800 base damage in a radius per enemy within that radius.

 

It needs to be changed to function as Shield Polarize does.  No damage stacking.  That's all.

 

Although no damage stacking would help a lot, MP could use a bit more of a nerf. Half Duration (who needs a minute anyway?) and make it so that Duration Mods affect MP. I guess that would still keep her in a general good shape, with a 30 sec Debuff, Damage Buff and Damage Skill. Still waaaaaay more then many other Warframes have as a Ultimate. If it still proves to strong, nerf more.

 

The Snow Globe Nerf wasn't as bad as expected, maybe Nova finally will be the next one in line for a not to hard nerf.

[-CM-Syein]

And you are the same thick person that POSTS in every Nova topic. Did you even read the post? Tell me.

I did, what wrong with posting? Nobody had the right to deprive anyone of posting. Nova topic is not the only one I'm posting on, I post on almost every topic here. 

I read the thread, so your point is? If this is all you could say to me then back to topic then. 

[OblivionNecroninja]

I did, what wrong with posting? Nobody had the right to deprive anyone of posting. Nova topic is not the only one I'm posting on, I post on almost every topic here. 

I read the thread, so your point is? If this is all you could say to me then back to topic then. 

Dude, proofreading. I can barely understand you.

[-CM-Syein]

Dude, proofreading. I can barely understand you.

rephrase: "Nobody have the right to stop anyone from posting. 

I posted on almost every topic here, Nova's topic is not the only one

I read this thread, so the point is? Moving on."

 

easier to understand? 

[Cyrionn]

I agree that the P4W on Nova can disappoint other players on other frames. This famous 1k8 AoE on explosion is very strong low-mid tier level that's a fact, but this is not the only frame that can P4W all day at those levels (Mag/Rhino/Ember/Oberon/Saryn even Frost/....). In fact if you spam more than the Nova you will benefit of her MPrime to deal even more damage (loved the Oberon's refference earlier, did that so much :D).

 

Now Nova can be acquired on the Europa boss, which is already mid level more or less. The further you go from that point, the less efficient is that chain explosion combo. And to stay efficient whatever are the ennemy levels, you will go range build and use AMD, Mprime becomes just a CC and damage buff.

 

Why is it bothering people so much ? The fact that the chain explosion is very impressive is a part of this, and most Nova players use shiny colors to empower this effect. But truly, the roflspamming P4W isn't a Nova only trait... And when I hear "maybe we'd see some other frames around" I have to say that I don't feel like there are two or three Novas in each mission I enter.

 

Now why is she a this powerfull frame and why people aiming for high tier level request for a Nova ? Because her abilities scale on weapon damage making her relevant in any tier. Every frame should use scaling to have this relevance, not the other way around...but that's another story.

 

Edit : Forgot to say that all I've said has been said before, this forum reflects so well the redundant aspect of the game. :)

Edited February 9, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Cwierz]

rephrase: "Nobody have the right to stop anyone from posting. 

I posted on almost every topic here, Nova's topic is not the only one

I read this thread, so the point is? Moving on."

 

easier to understand? 

"Nobody has the right to stop anyone from posting.

I post on almost every topic here, not just ones about nova

I read this thread, what is your point? Moving on."

 

That should be how it is written.

 

 

However, I have to disagree with the free speech part of your post.

People who don't know what they are talking about, or are just plain dumb shouldn't be allowed to post feedback on beta games. (not specifically mentioning anyone here)

[Xana_Skullsunder]

rephrase: "Nobody have the right to stop anyone from posting. 

I posted on almost every topic here, Nova's topic is not the only one

I read this thread, so the point is? Moving on."

 

easier to understand? 

 

My point is you give the OP crap for starting "another nova topic" when all you do is make the typical "don't touch nova at all ever" response that we've ALSO seen 10000000000 times. That strikes me as hypocritical, especially because the poster is trying to find a balance for her strongest power, rather than ask for a straight up nerf.

Edited February 9, 2014 by XanaSkullpulper

[Cwierz]

My point is you give the OP crap for starting "another nova topic" when all you do is make the typical "don't touch nova at all ever" response that we've ALSO seen 10000000000 times. That strikes me as hypocritical, especially because the poster is trying to find a balance for her strongest power, rather than ask for a straight up nerf.

You do realize that he won't listen right?

(I hate not knowing somebodies gender)

[-CM-Syein]

My point is you give the OP crap for starting "another nova topic" when all you do is make the typical "don't touch nova at all ever" response that we've ALSO seen 10000000000 times. That strikes me as hypocritical, especially because the poster is trying to find a balance for her strongest power, rather than ask for a straight up nerf.

umm the op also make a typical Nova's spamming response that we seen many times as well. 

When a similar thread emerge, same responses will emerge. 

 

The poster already stated that the problem with Nova is: "My issue is with the ability to spam said ability every time theres an enemy within a moderate radius. If your not the player caught up in the power fantasy of mowing hordes of mindless drones to death it just makes the game easy and boring." 

Which is why I said Nova is not the only one who's capable of spamming.

 

His balance is this: "My idea to balance the ability is to make it more universal then just debuff enemies. Have Molecular Prime benefit the players, including Nova, caught in the burst as well by providing a long duration energy shield or armor buff to help offset the squishiness factor of the glass frame."

Which is why I said Nova's m-prime is already benefit the players, including Nova (because it work on mobs as a whole) Who are your enemies? The mobs. 

Op realized her squishiness as stated Nova as a glass cannon so they offered more shield and armor buff. Is this the balance you're talking about? 

I mean Nova can have like 15 armor, and shield just like Valkyr I wouldn't even mind as long as the power stayed the same. Because no matter how many shield or armor she have it doesn't changed the fact her power doesn't have enough ult for survival. 

 

So yes, I read the thread, if you have any problem then instead of calling someone out for :"not reading the thread"

why not contribute to it. 

And I doubt you ever call anyone out for not-reading-the-thread before beside me (just because you don't like my idea)

as I'm not the only one who's "not reading the thread"

Edited February 9, 2014 by SElZE

[ThePresident777]

If people really consider we all know that Nova's ultimate, as it is right now, is the dominant and most powerful caster ability in the game by an arm and a leg. A maximized 1800 damage base damage before taking into any consideration the double damage debuff and chaining effect of every nearby enemy. Usable on the move, in mid air, with a near instant cast time and a debuff duration that easily lets you clear up any straggler's who managed to escape the flash. Its an ability that makes any other P4W ability to shame and in my humble opinion actually can make the game rather boring as the lazy player archtype likes to spam it.

 

The point has been argued back and forth a thousand times in a thousand posts about the opinions of the player base. Honestly I don't feel the need to rehash the old arguments but suggestions do need to be made to keep the topic alive since the ability does honestly compel me to action. Molecular Prime is powerful on a scale that they tried to balance by making the frame a bit more delicate then most. Subpar armor, moderate shields and health, though admitedly she's a speed demon that can survive forever on her burst potential alone.

 

My idea to balance the ability is to make it more universal then just debuff enemies. Have Molecular Prime benefit the players, including Nova, caught in the burst as well by providing a long duration energy shield or armor buff to help offset the squishiness factor of the glass frame. Once that's in place the ability could be locked in the same way as Rhino's stomp or Nyx's chaos with the ability not being usable again until the 60 second buff/debuff dissipates. With this change DE could also rework the ability to be effected by power duration to either extend to shorten the buff based on player preference.

 

I honestly don't have an issue with the huge damage potential of the ability or the chaining effect of the long duration debuff like most the nerf choir does. My issue is with the ability to spam said ability every time theres an enemy within a moderate radius. If your not the player caught up in the power fantasy of mowing hordes of mindless drones to death it just makes the game easy and boring.

 

I find the glass cannon approach more entertaining.

 

DE made a huge mistake by killing Snow Globe instead of giving the enemy a means to fight back.  Killing Snow Globe renders it inactive.  Warframe is an action game.  Giving the enemies a means to fight back promotes action.  They shouldn't continue to repeat the same mistakes.

[ThePresident777]

I have suggested this on almost every Nova Balance Thread. Nobody ever listens :(

 

Because they would lose their excuse to nerf it.

[Cwierz]

Because they would lose their excuse to nerf it.

This is obviously intelligent, because we are totally out just to get nova because we are "jelly".

I mean, I am just giving feedback about something well established in game design, present in all games, and a large part of how a game appeals on a sub-conscious and conscious level.

 

There really isn't much more to it.

You can either argue the topic, or stop posting insults and off topic posts.

[-CM-Syein]

This is obviously intelligent, because we are totally out just to get nova because we are "jelly".

I mean, I am just giving feedback about something well established in game design, present in all games, and a large part of how a game appeals on a sub-conscious and conscious level.

 

There really isn't much more to it.

You can either argue the topic, or stop posting insults and off topic posts.

no offense but, you are also posting off topic here....... (I am too but I'm not much of a hypocrite in this case) 

[Erondight]

Yes I have to admit that while the chaining spam is the biggest motivator for suggesting a rebalance to the skill it also has to be said that the 'game' is entirely balanced around that tier. Everything from Mercury to Pluto, Orokin Derelicts, and T1-3 are in the 1-40 level range that can be P4W to instant death. Sadly the player base of longer term players who tend to claim abilities are 'useless' and 'don't work at high tier' forget that theres no such thing as 'High' tier at the moment outside of an artifical endgame create from an automated scaling mechanic that gives no benefits or rewards.

 

Honestly outside subpar bragging rights or a desire to farm longer the elitist ideal that High 'tier' exists because your working at an end game level is complete ego fluff. The problem comes in because that artifical endgame has jaded the section of the community that enjoys a challenge and thats the only way to get it in an engine with balancing centered around a single frames abilities. While yes this is a party optional game at current the engine doesn't account for multiple frames with P4W abilities outside throwing more enemies at you.

 

Thus the counter argument that Nova's ultimate is 'balanced' because it scales for 'High' tier is completely pointless. Its the same argument that was made for Rhino's Iron Skin nerfs and the eternal Bastile.

[Monolake]

I have suggested this on almost every Nova Balance Thread. Nobody ever listens :(

M-prime doesnt need much of a duration and even any sane cooldown wouldnt hurt it. Whats the difference if you could only cast it once in 20 seconds? 

(current Power Duration: 60s ... who the hell designed Nova?)

 

And OP suggestion to BUFF m-prime making it a survivability/defensive ability as well? This has to be a joke.