I Support The Grineer, Let Me Tell You Why

[DavidSPD]

(Note:  This is not a roleplaying thread, nor is it a "lore" thread per-se. It's an explanation as to why I support Grineer from a gameplay perspective. This thread will likely be a gigantic wall of text that I am going to be continually editing throughout the day as things come to mind, if you don't want to do a lot of reading and potentially boring discussion on the faction's mobs then feel free to pass on reading and/or posting a reply)

 

Hey everybody,

 

So I've been supporting Grineer ever since the Gradivus Dilemma. Until I had an option to "pick sides" I never really considered myself a "supporter" of any of the NPC factions. The lore was (and is) very weak, and I viewed both Corpus and Grineer as their own sort of immoral evil (I have no love for corporate practices nor do I find aggressive military forces a good thing) and rather than get into some big discussion on why the two factions are poor choices to "support" I would rather just get into gameplay related things. So let's get to that, shall we?

 

 

1. As a Grineer supporter, I spend less time on my back with my ankles behind my ears: 

 

Everybody knows the obvious differences between Corpus and Grineer ground forces if they've spent ample time on planets other than Mercury. Almost every "special" mob in the Grineer faction has some form of "hard" crowd control that will literally have you falling down every couple minutes, if not seconds. The Corpus do not. Warframe doesn't seem to have any "prevention" in place to keep you from getting chain-stunned, so things such as knockdowns are INCREDIBLY effective, and thanks to mods having really low % chance to avoid knockdown, people usually opt-out for more useful mods.

 

 

Scorpions - Fast, and have incredible accuracy on an ability that will knock you down and pull you into groups of mobs, only to then have another mob knock you down, which will often start a "chain-reaction" of mobs knocking you down and causing you to slide across the floor in all manner of directions. Being melee only doesn't prevent these units from being a #1 threat on the battlefield, even other things such as Heavy units. You simply can not ignore a Scorpion alive on the battlefield.

 

Shield Lancers - Carrying a shield that is immune to direct damage, these infantry will cover others and/or simply charge your position and knock you over. Even after having 1k hours playing this game, I still get knocked down by them more often than not even with Punch Through and skill usage. If you don't have Punch Through, headshotting them from over their shield is a highly situational (not to mention skillful) endeavor that will take your focus away from everything else for a brief moment. Usually enough time for a Scorpion (or any other mob) to knock you down.

 

Heavy Gunner - These units are common heavy units that are incredibly adept at putting Tenno into awkward positions. I'm sure most people know what I'm saying when I say they are in the most inconvenient of places at the worst possible times. With their AoE "ground pound" ability, Heavy Gunners are essentially a walking "road block" just as other heavies are. Unless you are in a position where you can get a great deal of air to pass over them, then you simply must kill them as soon as possible. Melee isn't an option unless you want to risk taking a great deal of damage and/or getting chain stunned by other enemies with knockdown.

 

Napalm/Bombard - These two heavy units typically play the same, so I grouped them together. They're incredibly tanky heavy units that have the same "ground pound" ability the Heavy Gunner has, but they are usually much harder to kill, and because of their primary weapons getting knocked down (or just shot at in general) is a much bigger threat. 

 

Hellions - Hellions are mobs that are only on Phobos (to the best of my knowledge) and while they're not as... severe as say, Scorpions or Heavies with their crowd control, they do shoot waves upon waves of rockets that can (and on rare occasions, do) proc knockdown back-to-back, causing great frustration and sometimes even killing you when you had a "safe" amount of shields and/or health, as the knockdown actually has significant damage. Just yesterday I was knocked down three times in a row and during that time I ate five rocket volleys. Not fun.

 

 

On the Corpus side of things we have....

 

Shockwave MOA - These robots look like slightly larger variants of regular MOAs, but they don't prefer to shoot at you. Instead they will simply run up to you and "prepare" a shockwave attack that works very similarly to the Grineer's "ground pound" but it actually has both preparation time, and feedback on how to avoid the maneuver. During or after a Shockwave MOA attack, you have ample time to react, and potentially avoid, the attack. If you are fighting a Grineer heavy it is improbable that you will be able to do anything to avoid getting knocked down if you are within range.

 

Anti MOA - These units are in the Corpus Gas City (and I believe the origination of Scott's "How badly can I make you suffer" quot that quickly became a meme), but they are so rare I bet most of you had to think for a minute to realize what unit I'm talking about. They are essentially Shockwave MOAs, except their shockwave is a projectile that will bounce around a room briefly before detonating. 

 

 

As you can (hopefully) see, Grineer are much more effective at both disabling and killing Tenno in the same breath. Corpus by comparison are easier to engage, are less punishing to get close to and rarely chain stun those that get too close or make mistakes. 

 

2. As a Grineer supporter I feel I have more purpose in whom I am fighting for:

 

While I openly admitted that I don't find either faction really... suiting to my tastes I personally feel that between the two, Grineer are actually easier to understand, and actually have sufficient lore to get behind. While I may very much dislike (I use the word "dislike" as a substitute for more colorful words that would better describe my opinion) the bosses that drive the Grineer faction, at the same time they have ideals and personalities that I can understand, at least on some level.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know Corpus are a "merchant" faction, and I know they're about research, R&D and Orokin tech... at the same time I feel like the Corpus are "more intelligent" than the Grineer and have an actual driven purpose that isn't your stereotypical "world domination" kind of thing. But with this realization it's also plainly obvious that Corpus haven't been the focus of DE for quite some time in terms of lore development or "rounding out" the faction's mobs. The "Darvo Event" Family Feud nonsense doesn't feel... "natural" in my opinion. It feels like DE's hand was forced since Corpus are on their way to being completely removed from the game from the players' actions.

 

In terms of design and their general disposition I actually find Corpus preferrable, but at the same time Grineer are better, more efficient killers that are actually succeeding in their ideals and purpose. Corpus don't actually seem to be DOING anything. Their entire faction seems based around discovery, research, and information. They are a reactive faction. They don't seem to have any military force to speak of, so it's only natural that when a faction literally bred for war knocks their door down, the Corpus would be demolished. We spend most of our time killing CREWMAN for Pete's sake. Does nobody feel like Corpus need a lot more help than they're getting? Am I the only one feels like I'm committing genocide against a faction of scientists, engineers and explorers? Corpus need mechs, power armor, and also females. Where are all the Corpus women? Here's an idea; add women in power armor and mechs. Boom, Corpus just got a whole lot cooler; and not to mention threatening.

 

 

 

3. Path of Least Resistance:

 

Now I know this is a big reason for a lot of people that simply don't care about lore, and just want to get things done and make progress, but I think this is a valid concern that is a large contributing factor to why the Corpus are literally dying out. Corpus supporters, complain and argue all you want that you're playing "hard-mode" (and I'm not saying you aren't; I don't envy you...at all) but the fact of the matter is... Grineer supporters are making more progress, credits and weapons faster, and more efficiently than you are thanks to the gameplay reasons I described above.

 

As a video game with freedom of choice, most people will naturally choose whichever route gets them what they want easier. It takes a special kind of  psyche to choose a more difficult path when there is an easier path just as readily available. I'm not trying to start a flame war, nor am I saying Corpus supporters are "messed up", because I neither want a flame war nor believe Corpus supporters are messed up. I'm just saying (and the starchart is proof) most people playing Warframe are taking the path of least resistance. 

 

 

4. Science Fiction in a science fiction setting:

 

Now this section is going to be highly subjective, but as the thread states it is my reasons for supporting Grineer, and not anybody else's. So take that into consideration before you try to start a really big discussion that will inevitably derail the thread and potentially start a flame war.

 

I dislike the Grineer faction for a large number of reasons. The key reason being their art design is difficult to logically wrap my head around. A lot of the things that make the Grineer... well... Grineer is very... strange. Their design has a very... "rounded" theme to it. From their ships to their weapons, everything is "rounded". Most of their weapons look like paintball guns (Ignis, and Grakata since they use the same model are prime examples) and as such it just doesn't seem like their tech would function the way it does.

 

Obviously, like I said, this is my opinion, and as such it's highly subjective. I can see how Grineer being different can be a big draw for people to support them, and in a lot of ways I applaud DE designers on their ability to make something original and continually confuse the **** out of me with the things they make. But with that being said, I know what I like and what I dislike, and no matter how much I appreciate the unique designs of Grineer and their unorthodox ways of slaughtering the Corpus, I simply do not like anything about them. 

 

Now I know what you're thinking, "Wait, didn't you say you support Grineer? Well that's stupid, if you don't like Grineer why in the hell are you supporting them, and what does this actually have to do with you supporting them!? Join the Corpus and help fight back!"

 

I'm getting to that. 

 

As a supporter of a certain faction, you spend more time in the opposing faction's tilesets fighting them. You're attacking or assaulting things all the time. You're taking territory that doesn't belong to you, you're constantly seeing your less favorite faction and interacting with their mobs and environments. If you want your faction to "progress" then you can't simply be defending all the time. I feel like nothing is being accomplished when I defend a node, and I'm confident in saying I'm not alone in this.

 

Maybe I'm just backwards and the rest of the world will shun me for thinking this, but I want to spend time on the tilesets interacting with the faction that I like. Currently the only way for me to spend a lot of time on Corpus tilesets, interacting with them is to travel to their planets and nodes... and simply kill them. 

 

The invasions system attempted to create more... interaction and involvement between the factions and the Tenno, and obviously it's a work in progress, but at its current stages simply isn't in a place where I am satisfied enough to support Corpus. I don't know what kind of system would work, and maybe I will never be satisfied with anything DE implements in this area. Maybe I'm just a sick, sadistic person that loves the Corpus so much they all have to die so I can show them just how much I love them.

 

I don't know.

 

 

The point, however, is that I want to see Corpus ingenuity. I want to see all the types of robots, all the dedicated Corpus people. I want to see what they've created and I want to talk to their leaders. I want to know what it is that makes the Corpus tick, and I want to support them. But I simply can't, due to there not being enough substance to their faction to motivate me to go after Grineer instead. 

 

 

So why do I care so much? Why do I make this wall of text when my supported faction is steamrolling the competition?

 

For the longest time I wielded nothing but Corpus tech.

 

I get a kick out of seeing how twisted Alad V is, and am genuinely sad that he flipped his lid and went after the Tenno rather than continuing to help Corpus create and design awesome things to fight the Grineer with.

 

I love seeing carrier transports float past the Corpus tilesets.

 

I oftentimes pause to admire the graceful (or just laugh when they're not-so-graceful) Osprey.

 

I'm only slightly annoyed by the beautiful beams that the Corpus shoot at me, and sometimes just let them go for a while so I can look at them (before horribly murdering and/or dismembering them). 

 

I like discovery and science more than I like brute force and dominance.

 

I feel a sense of kinship with the Corpus (as they're more human-like) and in a lot of ways feel like that is where people in real-life are going.

 

I like clean, sleek and symmetrical designs (Yo I heard you like 90 degree angles so we put this square in yo square...)

 

 

 

 

But really, I just like the Corpus. So please DE, focus on Corpus for a while and give people like me a reason to fight for them. Give the Corpus things that will give them a fighting chance. Allow the faction to take itself back, rather than pushing an event into the game that will artificially give Corpus power. 

 

Give the Corpus more variety in mobs, and in defenses. Allow the Corpus to strike fear into the Grineer without making it frustrating like the Grineer do. Give the Corpus robotics, cybernetics, and technological warfare you would expect from a well-funded and intellectual group of thinkers and tinkerers. Give the Corpus adapted and re-purposed Orokin machinery and designs to reflect their interest and desires to use the more advanced technologies of old. 

 

With things like these I believe many of the "in the closet" Corpus supporters will finally switch over and give the Grineer a run for their money. DE just needs to believe.

 

 

As a disembodied voice living in a cornfield once said, "If you build it, they will come."

[lautalocos]

i can see what you mean, and i hope we see more corpus units. as an example, we have zanukas and hyenas. what about making smaller hyenas or zanukas, a lot more weaker, that become normal mobs? it would be pretty fun and different from your average mob.

i would also like to see more corpus security systems.

 

also, it seems that fighting the grineer will make an special event appear, just like the harvester. that will surely make the corpus appear on the starmap again

Edited February 11, 2014 by Letter13
cleaning

[Nagisawa]

Effectively what he says is that he picked the faction that makes the game not just easier, but more tolerable, because all the other factions (Infested, Corpus) do not have half the units that destroy player agency in seconds.

[TargetDummy]

Corpus have lots of money/resources/tech, much more than grineer have, and yet they can't give even slightly better reward for supporting them. Common sense.

[CptWasea]

I find it weird that you like the Corpus and want to fight against them. I personally hate them (I often have a lot of trouble against them) and side with the Greneer to wipe them out. I also like seeing a Heavy Gunner or Napalm fight with me and can admire the Eviscerator's efficiency without having to run to save my skin. And for RP reasons, I'd never make my Mag or Valkyr fight alongside the Corpus.

I find the corpus faction way less interesting in terms of units, I agree they should have more variety. I have no real in-game reasons to side against them, since for all I know the Tenno are the evil guys attacking the other factions in their territory and constantly stealing resources from them.

[DavidSPD]

I find it weird that you like the Corpus and want to fight against them. I personally hate them (I often have a lot of trouble against them) and side with the Greneer to wipe them out. I also like seeing a Heavy Gunner or Napalm fight with me and can admire the Eviscerator's efficiency without having to run to save my skin. And for RP reasons, I'd never make my Mag or Valkyr fight alongside the Corpus.

I find the corpus faction way less interesting in terms of units, I agree they should have more variety. I have no real in-game reasons to side against them, since for all I know the Tenno are the evil guys attacking the other factions in their territory and constantly stealing resources from them.

 

Like I said in the omfgwalloftext, I fight against them because I get to see more of them, and I find Grineer frustrating to fight.

 

When you spawn in to attack or defend a friendly faction, it seems like only a handful of allies actually spawn. The further you get into the map... the less and less I recall seeing friendlies. Maybe it makes sense (that things take time to progress during an attack) but it seems like the Tenno are doing all the work. Which means that more often than not it's just you and the opposing faction.

Edited February 10, 2014 by DavidSPD

[CptWasea]

I don't know, I always have 3-4 of them around and they advance with me for a long way (I scan them when I can and I'm often disappointed to find the ones with me at the end are the same I scanned a few rooms before); the same with the few rounds of disinfestation I played for the corpus... but I often find myself in extermination missions, maybe that's the reason. I noticed that the allies don't know how to use elevators, so in defense maps you'll be alone if elevators are involved. Or maybe you advance way faster than them, a problem I don't have since if the difficulty is high enough I'll need to stay in cover a lot before moving forward.

 

Yeah I understand you prefer to fight them, but... don't you feel bad that you are contributing to their extinction? (Not that I really think they'll be wiped out, I'm quite sure DE kind of planned this situation).

[DavidSPD]

Yeah I understand you prefer to fight them, but... don't you feel bad that you are contributing to their extinction? (Not that I really think they'll be wiped out, I'm quite sure DE kind of planned this situation).

 

If it was actually a real possibility they would be permanently removed from the game, I wouldn't be fighting them like I am. If anything this encourages DE to keep Corpus interesting enough for people to want to fight for them.

[Letter13]

Cleaned. Seriously. If you don't have something constructive to encourage thoughtful discussion (you know who you are) then you shouldn't post.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP for more variety in corpus units

-1 OP for all the complaints (IMHO its easier to fight grineer, i have tons of ways to avoid/deal with knockdown, but its harder to deal with swarms of ospreys constantly reinforcing the units im fighting)

[Onisa]

I don't know, I always have 3-4 of them around and they advance with me for a long way (I scan them when I can and I'm often disappointed to find the ones with me at the end are the same I scanned a few rooms before); the same with the few rounds of disinfestation I played for the corpus... but I often find myself in extermination missions, maybe that's the reason. I noticed that the allies don't know how to use elevators, so in defense maps you'll be alone if elevators are involved. Or maybe you advance way faster than them, a problem I don't have since if the difficulty is high enough I'll need to stay in cover a lot before moving forward.

 

Yeah I understand you prefer to fight them, but... don't you feel bad that you are contributing to their extinction? (Not that I really think they'll be wiped out, I'm quite sure DE kind of planned this situation).

Once I had the same sniper crewman follow me through the latter 2/3s of a mission. Even made it through the warp door.

[KoshLovesYou]

Nice formatting, have some counterpoints:

1. This says less about the Grineer, and more about the current Corpus balance problems which DE has at least noticed. In particular, the Corpus don't have good juggle/tank/DoT like the Grineer units you discuss here. That'd be a good list for DE to look at and go "What do the Corpus need/what does or doesn't fit their style" in their future balancing updates.

2. While the Grineer certainty have more personality and lore, I'm a little surprised that you find yourself more drawn to that even in the face of the fact that they're a militant xenophobic fascist monarchy with genocide and "Violence Is Justice" as their central dogma. I won't deny that the Grineer certaintly ARE great at "actually succeeding in their ideals and purpose". I'd just deny that it'd be one you should be so comfortable supporting. Not that the Corpus have shown themselves to be much better (certainty not more efficient), but at least with them there seems to be more room for negotiation. That's a little more lore-biased, though, and less design biased.

3. You've basically repeated your point in #1 here.

4. Even given what I said in #2? "They look cool" is a perfectly valid reason to support a game faction. Emphasis on 'game' faction. :) I'm fond of the infested weapon styles myself.

5 (Sorta). Amen, and hopefully the update is going to give the Corpus more than just one new unit, even with the changes made to make fighting the corpus a bit of a challenge in terms of how they spawn.

[ScorpDK]

At first I wasn't sure what this thread was about, but the more I read through your post, the more I liked your view on things.

[CheeseThief]

I'd just like to add too this topic, that up till recently the Grineer were the only faction that had a face.

 

I personally gang up on the faction that I can least relate to, and while the Grineer have sorta human faces, sorta speak english and used to joke about each others mothers, the Corpus are as dehumanised as possible.

 

When shooting Corpus, I'm shooting pointless robots and faceless mooks that don't in any way shape or form endear themselves to me, and it was only recently, through events and the latest crewman helmet were they actually shown in any way shape or form to be human or have human features.

 

 

As someone who is completely overgeared for everything invasion related, the choice for me comes down to a choice between ideals. And a choice between a scrappy, primitve faction that clawed their way off that crap hole earth and are eaking out a domain with visibly human troops, verse a money loving technologically advanced faction full of smug A******s that hide behind robots, is not a very fair one.

 

Corpus need their Ruk.

Someone who pats me on the back for the work I do rather than smuggly rubbing their ambitions in my face.

Edited February 11, 2014 by CheeseThief

[DavidSPD]

2. While the Grineer certainty have more personality and lore, I'm a little surprised that you find yourself more drawn to that even in the face of the fact that they're a militant xenophobic fascist monarchy with genocide and "Violence Is Justice" as their central dogma. I won't deny that the Grineer certaintly ARE great at "actually succeeding in their ideals and purpose". I'd just deny that it'd be one you should be so comfortable supporting. Not that the Corpus have shown themselves to be much better (certainty not more efficient), but at least with them there seems to be more room for negotiation. That's a little more lore-biased, though, and less design biased.

 

It's not so much that I find myself "drawn" to the Grineer. Like I said in the OP, I preferred to expose myself to Corpus content. In the beginning of the post I also said I found the lore to be very lacking, and didn't really enjoy the general ideals of either faction. But by choosing Grineer I (oddly enough) spend less time around them.

 

 

 

-1 OP for all the complaints (IMHO its easier to fight grineer, i have tons of ways to avoid/deal with knockdown, but its harder to deal with swarms of ospreys constantly reinforcing the units im fighting)

 

I'm not really complaining about Grineer; I'm making observations based on my experience with their faction. They could be viewed as subjective, though, so I guess it varies from person to person.

Edited February 11, 2014 by DavidSPD

[YourMoms]

I'm not into such complications as the TS is but I personally chose to support Corpus because of their more sofistication and visuals. Other that that I oppose both factions in amounts to keep them 50/50 e.g. maintaining balcance.

 

But if you ask me why on equal situation I prefer to choose Corpus I say I don't like dumb, primitive, degradated fat-&#! mumbling dirtbags.

 

And yes indeed Corpus as a highly developed and tech faction deserves lot more units and proxies that just a bunch of clonned crewmen/moa/ospreys. That's why I must raise my finger for some extension of Corpus units. Adding some heavies, elite units, assasin machines, turret deployers, cloakers, ninjas whatever it takes to enable decent counteractions agains fat-&#! faction.

[Laecerelius]

I totally agree.  The Corpus are right now just the weaker of the two factions.  They could really use some more heavy units, the things that you actually care about when fighting.  As far as I'm concerned, they only have the Tech and he's not that threatening at all.  Definitely not as threatening as a Grineer Napalm or Ancient Disruptor.  They really do need some more heavy hitters.  Right now they feel more like ranged Infested, relying on Zerg rushing you with inferior units in hopes of overwhelming you.  That really seems more like something the Grineer should be doing since they're all degenerating clones while the Corpus are actual people. 

 

Heck, for a while there I figured that Crewmen were just humanoid robots since they talk in their "Wort wort" language and it didn't seem logical to throw hundreds of basically regular jackass humans against an ancient, super powered killing machine.  Also I think it'd make more sense if you renamed Techs into Enforcers or something like that.  Why are their techs super giant guys with huge guns?  Techs should be normal looking guys in something like a Techpriest from Warhammer 40k's mechanical harness with a big bag of tricks to slow you down and place traps and whatnot.  Basically Vauban it up against us.  And as others have said before a weaker, mass produced version of the hyena would also be an excellent addition to the Corpus roster.

[DavidSPD]

Also I think it'd make more sense if you renamed Techs into Enforcers or something like that.  Why are their techs super giant guys with huge guns?  Techs should be normal looking guys in something like a Techpriest from Warhammer 40k's mechanical harness with a big bag of tricks to slow you down and place traps and whatnot.

 

Yeah that's something that bothered me too. There are so many things about the Corpus faction that just seem like placeholders. Really hope they get some more attention soon. And not in the form of recycled assets (certain "new" enemies in the recent Darvo Alert)

Edited February 12, 2014 by DavidSPD