Faith In De As One Of My Top Devs Of All Times Is Slowly Fading...

[Sebastianx]

First of all the wild nerfs to stuff that actually needed buffs (Frost,Lato and I'm not gonna list them all here, you get the idea) without bothering to really buff much besides Latron and the bows (bows were a nice change for once).

 

 

After that they decided it's an excellent idea to kick the clans in the nuts and make clan gear available for purchase in the market so people don't need to actually work for it from now on (Also I am HIGHLY expecting this to go worse fast if they make all the previews clan tech available in the market). They can easily redeem this one by just removing clan tech from market and regain some of the veteran's trust yet again.

 

 

By now I thought that "hell,DE rarely failed in the past and they redeemed themselves fast 95% of times, this can't be any different". But soon enough, BAM another punch under the belt not just to the vets but to everyone. Steel Charge got nerfs and they decided that they need to compensate EVERY steel chamber that's rank 6+ in your inventory.

Now I ask myself, why would anyone have more than 1 steel chamber ranked? And don't come telling me "mabe dei iz want les mele damuge hurhur" cuz I ain't taking that crap. Only ONE should have been refunded and no one would have made a single post about it on the forums for an incredibly valid reason.

 

 

Very soon after that I found out that Prime Gear is now tradeable. Now, I'm totally fine with giving faster access to gear if people want to pay for it. But what do the vets get out of this? All those people that already have all primes? There is no gratification whatsoever for us, a badge, a something before the hotfix was implemented that says " I got it before you fair and square" that I can strut in and not lose that "wow, full prime gear" stare from people. Or just simply compensate every piece of prime gear in your inventory before the hotfix came live.

 

And don't come telling me that they can go sell them for a lot of plat. Everyone knows that once you farm your gear through hell and getting useless common pieces just wanting to get that rare one, you won't be going there anymore. And those pieces that drop like candy will be worth 1 plat,maybe 2 in 2-3 days when people figure it out. And sure as HELL no one will buy them to begin with because they're so easy to get, and if that's not all, the hell that is trading chat will make it near impossible to even make 10 plat per day unless you have those juicy juicy ember prime pieces and all the rare stuff (that for some reason you shouldn't have unless you're some insane person that still grinded for them after you got that prime gear)

OR they should have done what trading was ment to be all along. Just that, TRADING mods for mods,blueprints for mods and vice-versa.

 

All in all, DE is threading a very dangerous path, and throwing poop at a fan while expecting not to get hit back by it is very silly to say the least.

 

EDIT : Thanks for moving it to the proper section, wasn't sure where to post it.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Sebastianx

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[WhisperByte]

Sorry for nitpicking but Steel Charge was buffed mostly...

[Geneticfate]

Honestly this was just annoying.

1. I don't care if people decide to buy clan tech items. I still research them.

2. I don't care if people can trade prime parts. I farmed them and got them. Why should I care how other people obtain it, also I can give clan mates my extra pieces since they don't farm as much as I do and I want them to experience the game since they have to do a whole lot more than me regarding other things.

3. Frost had a free win button for defense and mobile defense he hardly did anything else with his powers besides press 3 at the allotted times. He needed a nerf. Regardless of how you think he should work. Hell my favorite warframe Trinity should and probably will get a nerf.

4. We are in Beta and things can and will change, even though I am fine with all of the changes you have mentioned.

[Sebastianx]

Sorry for nitpicking but Steel Charge was buffed mostly...

Well you get less mod points from it. Not much of a buff. 

[M93R]

I can agree with only some points mentioned. Especially the steel charge thing. Every single one is a bit much, it means that people who had more than one were expecting results if it got changed.

But that aside, I don't think the Clan Tech idea is a dangerous one. It falls in the realm of reasonable, sure if you want it 'x' days sooner do it, burn up your plat. Games and companies run on money, not to say they are greedy. But every company needs money, I don't think you can refute that argument. It isn't as though they are doing massive clan packs, if they did that, it would be pushing it for me. But personally I'm six weapons off of having every weapon I can obtain in the game. One I have to wait another four days for probably.

 

The trading idea I think will allow people to bring in more friends and help them with their first pretty weapon. I like the idea, it is hard to say it is a terrible idea when it might help bring more people to the game.

 

Overall I think you might just be too concerned over things for a game that is still arguably in beta. Don't forget this is mostly a co-op based game, helping out players and their arsenals in theory improves the experience for them and their groups.

[MagPrime]

Steel Charge didn't really get nerf'd.  

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/182094-steel-charge-update/

 

This post stats that it was reset to 5, but the damage increase stayed as if it was still at 10.  So, the only thing that changed was how many mods it takes to rank it up.

 

I do agree about the Prime trading, it shouldn't have been done the way it was. My main complaint is that it will now be harder to find the teams that are willing to do the T1/2/3 and OD runs to get the parts.  I like the fact that I have worked long and hard for my Prime gear, and I have every intention of continuing to do so.   My other, smaller complaint, is that now you wont know for sure if that Primed Player really knows what they're doing, or if they just started playing and you'll have to go rez them constantly. Prime gear used to be a sign of the advanced and mostly competent player.

 

Maybe limiting it to part for part trading, clan mates only or using two trade allotments instead of one would help?

 

As far as the clan tech in the market... I'm ok with it being a temporary thing.  Who wants to spend 3 days waiting for the research to complete and then another 12-24 hrs before you get to equip it and then find out if it's a decent enough weapon to justify the time?  The only reason I was able to suss out was that it was a way to get the player base hyped about the weapons and then encourage them to do the research when the weapons were removed from the Market. 

Edited February 20, 2014 by Noamuth

[_Absolom_]

Well you get less mod points from it. Not much of a buff. 

They tried making it high cost high reward. Didn't work, the added mod points were insane. So they reduced the point bonus.

BUT the damage percentage remained buffed. 

Get your facts together.

Also, 3/4 of Frost's powers were buffed, only Snow Globe was hit by a change. Your whole thread is mere clueless whining about your b*tthurt opinion.

[Sebastianx]

I can agree with only some points mentioned. Especially the steel charge thing. Every single one is a bit much, it means that people who had more than one were expecting results if it got changed.

But that aside, I don't think the Clan Tech idea is a dangerous one. It falls in the realm of reasonable, sure if you want it 'x' days sooner do it, burn up your plat. Games and companies run on money, not to say they are greedy. But every company needs money, I don't think you can refute that argument. It isn't as though they are doing massive clan packs, if they did that, it would be pushing it for me. But personally I'm six weapons off of having every weapon I can obtain in the game. One I have to wait another four days for probably.

 

The trading idea I think will allow people to bring in more friends and help them with their first pretty weapon. I like the idea, it is hard to say it is a terrible idea when it might help bring more people to the game.

 

Overall I think you might just be too concerned over things for a game that is still arguably in beta. Don't forget this is mostly a co-op based game, helping out players and their arsenals in theory improves the experience for them and their groups.

Very valid statements, but DE is just doing more harm to themselves by alienating vets from newbies even more, and also erasing what some may say was the only "endgame" Warframe had (Clantech and Primes) since now there's no reason to still play the game if you have the money. People will get bored after Mastery rank 3-4 and just leave because they have everything if they can just spend 500 plat to buy the best gear from some random people.

[Sebastianx]

They tried making it high cost high reward. Didn't work, the added mod points were insane. So they reduced the point bonus.

BUT the damage percentage remained buffed. 

Get your facts together.

Also, 3/4 of Frost's powers were buffed, only Snow Globe was hit by a change. Your whole thread is mere clueless whining about your b*tthurt opinion.

Oh boy, please go NOW and play frost vs level 60+ Grineer/Corpus on a defence/survival and tell me one SKILL that actually feels remotely USEFUL besides a tiny slow from his 2. Oh don't bother using Globe tho, just a word of advice, the moment you put it up, it's going down.

If there's something I'm 100% sure is that in any game I ever played I managed to min-max every piece of gear/character I get, that's really the only thing I'm good for.

And trust me, Frost has NO potential whatsoever now. If you go with the full range build to have the 6 sec freeze bug on Avalanche you will have NO damage from any skill because it means using Overextended. If you decided to use Blind Rage to counter the strength loss you will end up not having enough energy to cast Avalanche enough to actually keep the targets frozen.

[xveganrox]

They tried making it high cost high reward. Didn't work, the added mod points were insane. So they reduced the point bonus.

BUT the damage percentage remained buffed. 

Come back after you beat Mercury and tell us how much more useful melee damage is than mod slots.

[WhisperByte]

Well you get less mod points from it. Not much of a buff. 

Well you still get (2-4) more mod points from it than from any other aura. It is also now twice as strong as it's previous 5-rank iteration

[CY13ERPUNK]

"vet" here, no jimmies rustling

disagree with OP on basically every single point

if this is what it takes to lose yer faith in the DEv team then i guess u never rly had much faith in them to begin with

srsly, all these emo nerd rage threads is disturbing, how much of this community has incredible difficulty with rational thought/logic and deep-seated issues like a grossly warped sense of entitlement

not going to bat an eye if a large portion of the more "WAAAAAAA!" side of the community leaves for good, it'd probably be better for the game in the long run anyways (they typically create a toxic environment for newer players)

these kind of ppl clearly dont understand the beta process and/or simple economics (DE as a company cannot run on your silly nerd pride)

[MagPrime]

-snip-

 

And trust me, Frost has NO potential whatsoever now. If you go with the full range build to have the 6 sec freeze bug on Avalanche you will have NO damage from any skill because it means using Overextended. If you decided to use Blind Rage to counter the strength loss you will end up not having enough energy to cast Avalanche enough to actually keep the targets frozen.

Not part of the topic but just a suggestion; since I've been playing my new Frost I've been using the heck out of the team energy restores.  For the most part  when I play, I'm by the pod or core popping Snow Globe and the rest of my AoE's. Since I'm not moving around much, and I can stand in one place for long periods, I can spam Snow Globe whenever it falls. 

 

Team Energy Restores can be purchase from the Market or Clan Research.  Clan Research will grant 50 energy per pulse, 4 pulses per restore.  I don't have the one from the market, so I don't have the numbers for it. : /

[fatpig84]

Well you still get (2-4) more mod points from it than from any other aura. It is also now twice as strong as it's previous 5-rank iteration

 

 

Remember rifle amp use to deal moar damage than it's 27% iteration.

So... inb4nerf.

[Killerdude8]

My faith hasn't Faded, Because my Alliegance belongs to someone Else..

 

R* Games <3

 

Despite that, I don't think any less of DE for these Recent events, I feel they did something truly wonderful.

[M93R]

I should touch on the Frost subject since I forgot to in my earlier post. Yeah it is bad, simply put there isn't any ignoring his placement in the Warframe hierarchy now. Where he had a niche before now he simply doesn't excel at anything. His damage is pretty poor, each ability does feel like it flows though in the 1-2-3-Ultimate where before Snow Globe was the ultimate (per say).

 

Just roughly comparing his abilities to other frames. His first ability his little icicle of stun that now I guess has a slight AoE. I don't think I've seen damage from it, if there is with what I do, it is next to pointless. The stun is the only thing it brings to the table, an easy frame to compare that to would be Nyxs' first ability which is measurably better.

 

His Ice Wave of eh damage. It is fun in halls and the slow is nice in ways as temporary as it is. It won't kill things I'm farming 90% of the time. And I'm not farming anything in the game anymore it is mostly just to say I can do it farming. But on the rare occasion it is useful when rushing mildly ranged missions. If you compare it to another forward ability like Slash and Dash or Rhinos charge you get some mobility with them, in terms of the second ability slot maybe Oberions is something you could compare it to. In which case neither win, both are on the loosing side there.

 

Snow Globe. I rather not say anything else. In T3 Suv void, I could reasonably go with one friend an hour plus with the old Frost because of it. If you go into defense with cyropods he use to be the shiz. Now he is just kinda useful. Luckily for me my team mate changed up from Frost to Trinity a while ago. But it is sad to see the ability in the condition it is now. One of the suggestions I liked on the notice for the Snow Globe change was rather than blocking making the snow globe a damage dampener. I hope that idea gets put into consideration.

 

Blizzard. Pokemon Stadium. Need I say more.

 

This was getting too long and I'm hungry if someone has a good frame ability to compare the last two to, feel free to. I need the noms for dinner and breakfast tomorrow.

[_Absolom_]

Come back after you beat Mercury and tell us how much more useful melee damage is than mod slots.

I love insults like these. Give me more.

Oh, but only after you checked my actual progress, would ya?

And besides, who said anything about melee?

[Sebastianx]

I love insults like these. Give me more.

Oh, but only after you checked my actual progress, would ya?

And besides, who said anything about melee?

Actually you pretty much did, you said that the melee damage is the same, but you lost mod points. Melee is useless and mod points = a ton of customization available for the gained slots.

[TwiceDead]

Honestly this was just annoying.

1. I don't care if people decide to buy clan tech items. I still research them.

2. I don't care if people can trade prime parts. I farmed them and got them. Why should I care how other people obtain it, also I can give clan mates my extra pieces since they don't farm as much as I do and I want them to experience the game since they have to do a whole lot more than me regarding other things.

3. Frost had a free win button for defense and mobile defense he hardly did anything else with his powers besides press 3 at the allotted times. He needed a nerf. Regardless of how you think he should work. Hell my favorite warframe Trinity should and probably will get a nerf.

4. We are in Beta and things can and will change, even though I am fine with all of the changes you have mentioned.

Pretty much this. 

 

Warframe is first and foremost using a F2P model, which means DE will use every card on their hand in order to give you incentives to purchase platinum without locking content behind a pay-wall, so that they can pay their bills. 

The crafting system in this game is designed to give you incentives to get plat. If you just pay a little money, you can make all this go much faster... It's your choice, you pay either time or money, and some people don't have the time to go through Research phases or crafting phases or run Voids constantly in order to get what they need to build things. Warframe is very much about what kind of payment you prefer, it's all about your time, or your money? Which do you choose? If you have a job and money to spare, chances are you're going to throw money at the screen to get to the fun parts of the game quicker. If you have a lot of time on your hands, you chose to pay with your time.

 

Clan Research in itself is in place to give people even more incentives to get Platinum. By placing research weapons in the market people don't need to go through the hassle of collecting resources for the research room, the research fee(+research time), and not to mention the weapon blueprints themselves. There is nothing wrong in clan research weapons being sold in the Market, as certain weapons are there for people with less time on their hands; while people with time can go ahead with their Warfarming to get what they want. 

 

As for Frost and Steel Charge, they were both ridiculous. You still get the same amount of damage(60%) with Steel-Charge as you did pre-nerf, and you still get more mod-capacity(18) by using Steel Charge than you would if you used Rifle-Amp(14) or Dead Eye(10) for that matter. Frost was the end-all be-all Endless Defense frame thanks to his 30 second bullet invulnerability bubble, and he wasn't good for much else. The bubble get's a buff sometime in the future anyway, it's just not getting it's ridiculous immortality that it used to have. True he is a little lack-luster right now, but that is most likely going to change. 

 

Prime-Gear being trade-able? Looks like another incentive to get Platinum to me. Again, people with less time on their hands can speed up the progress in-game by paying for it, and since Prime-Gear isn't available in the market, they need to buy it from other people, and I am sure these people would love to get their hands on some more platinum. People who don't want to spend money can go ahead and use their time because that's the alternative. It doesn't bother me in the slightest either, as now I can actually help out my friends getting the prime-gear they desire without having to tell them "Nope, you have to grind for 100 hours just like I did in order to get the golden guns and frames", which needless to say is ridiculous that they didn't include before now.

 

Note, personally I have a lot of time on my hands... My friends however do not, and I would like to play with my friends and have them enjoy the game with me while they are playing.

 

This is really nothing to get butthurt over just because you can't wave your epeen around like an entitled veteran. More players will enjoy the game because of DE's decision, while a veterans word might be worth more than a scrubs, DE shouldn't make changes based on the veterans needs, but more to the entire community's needs.

[snark]

Don't take the economy seriously after the way legendary cores were distributed. Don't take the progression seriously after primes were made tradable.

Oh well. Happens to many games, eventually.

[Sev7n]

To me it sounds like your just ranting over nothing.

There is no problem with clan tech weapons and warframes being available in the market for plat or the ability to trade prime parts (for plat) because

1. The devs need to earn money for this game

2. They could have just made those weapons/warframes available from plat only like almost every other f2p game out there

Plus it shouldn't matter in any way, why should someone care how another obtains there warframes or weapons. We all have the same options as everyone else and we are lucky enough that nothing is exclusive to the plat side of the market.

 

And as for the nerfing/buffing that goes on this game you need to remember that we are still in beta so anything and everything can still be changed. And imo I think they have been doing a great job balancing things out, anyone that was here at the very beginning knows how unbalanced weapon upgrading was (hek was a 4 shot boss killer) and how useless some abilities were on warframes (WoF on ember used to do practically nothing). So just wait things out, try to understand why the devs do some of the things they do (reffering to all the items being available for plat) and if you don't like the way a warframe performs use a different one till (if it needs it) gets buffed in the future.

[XDeathCoreX]

How would you rate the Devs compared to Area Net "Anet" who manages Guild Wars?

[Thaumatos]

Honestly this was just annoying.

1. I don't care if people decide to buy clan tech items. I still research them.

2. I don't care if people can trade prime parts. I farmed them and got them. Why should I care how other people obtain it, also I can give clan mates my extra pieces since they don't farm as much as I do and I want them to experience the game since they have to do a whole lot more than me regarding other things.

3. Frost had a free win button for defense and mobile defense he hardly did anything else with his powers besides press 3 at the allotted times. He needed a nerf. Regardless of how you think he should work. Hell my favorite warframe Trinity should and probably will get a nerf.

4. We are in Beta and things can and will change, even though I am fine with all of the changes you have mentioned.

 

1. Pretty much, quit whining people

2. See 1

3. People don't like game balance...but it happens.  I still need to make that bumper sticker "Balance Happens"

4. Warframe is a case study in an indefinite "beta"... but people no longer need to use the excuse of "beta" to change their game.  Look at WoW or GW2 and how much they've changed over the time they've existed.

[Thaumatos]

How would you rate the Devs compared to Area Net "Anet" who manages Guild Wars?

 

I would say DE devs are much more beside themselves with their Warframe project.  They're willing to change a LOT about their game.

 

Anet is mostly comprised of people who think they know a lot about balance, but they really don't.  They're slowly getting down off of their high horse and involving the community with balance changes.  They've even got a balance sub-forum now.  But for the first year it was "we know what's best, you're all wrong, shut up and play our game."