Buff Weaker Weapons

[GhostWOlf995]

So De told us a long,very long tine ago that they wont nerf thing but buff weaker ones, and i am fine with that.. Then why we dont see any changes?? De did you take a vacation?? There is no balance with weapons.. Brakk is no1(watch Marelok) weappn,and i am ok woth that,100mission just to get need to compensate..

Clan tech weapons,nearly every one of them if not all of them are outclased by far.. Thos weapons requiere mastery rank,clan and A LOT OF RESOURCES..

How can for example synapse compare to soma?? Soma beats synapse hands down.. Synapse requiere a lot more resources,and i mean a lot more,higher mastery rank(if i am not mistaken),clan,time to research it,has shorter range and now even the damage is lower.. Whats the point?? Why would i even bothe with synapse? When soma outclases it in every situation?

Then there are other clan weapons

Torid.for example witch is outclassed by nearly every weapon ingame.

Supra is a joke now,same a synapse ,there is no point using it.

Ogris is on pair with penta,maybe its the most balanced clan tech(still it requiere more resource then penta,but ok)

Marelok! its op as hell. ( dont nerf it as you said,buff others)

Acrid,its not as bad as some of us think but for clantech mastery 7 weapon we need more

If i forgpten any clan weapon sry

Sry for english

[IIJetfireII]

Don't worry, everything will be balanced soon

[GhostWOlf995]

Don't worry, everything will be balanced soon

I worry because of that XD Soon (2016)

[Kaokasalis]

Actually some old weapons was buffed in update 12.

 

• Bow weapons receive 1/3 damage buff + gave charged arrows innate puncture depth.
• Dread arrows have increased flight speed.
• Embolist now has increased damage and forced poison proc.
• Tigris now has improved damage, critical chance, and proc rate.
• Hek damage increased and more minimum damage added to falloff.
• Hammer and Staff weapons now ragdoll enemies on charged attacks.
• Vulkar now has increased damage and proc rate.
• Latron and Latron Prime now have increased damage.
• Sentinel Deth Machine Rifle weapon now has 5% crit chance.
• Flux Rifle now has improved damage and proc rate.
• Critical Chance and reload speed of bows slightly tweaked.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Septin

[F_deel]

Actually some old weapons was buffed in update 12.

 

• Bow weapons receive 1/3 damage buff + gave charged arrows innate puncture depth.
• Dread arrows have increased flight speed.
• Embolist now has increased damage and forced poison proc.
• Tigris now has improved damage, critical chance, and proc rate.
• Hek damage increased and more minimum damage added to falloff.
• Hammer and Staff weapons now ragdoll enemies on charged attacks.
• Vulkar now has increased damage and proc rate.
• Latron and Latron Prime now have increased damage.
• Sentinel Deth Machine Rifle weapon now has 5% crit chance.
• Flux Rifle now has improved damage and proc rate.
• Critical Chance and reload speed of bows slightly tweaked.

 

I heard Ballistica also got stealth buffed

[Deidaku]

I have one thing that needs a super buff:

 

BO

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[(PSN)againstallodds40]

Nerf the weaker weapons to be on par with the stronger ones...........no thanks, that would take all the fun out of the game

Soma is better than the synapse.....maybe, but I can see you havent given it a few formas and some playing time. I love my synapse in the void, or against the corpus in general

[GhostWOlf995]

Nerf the weaker weapons to be on par with the stronger ones...........no thanks, that would take all the fun out of the game

Soma is better than the synapse.....maybe, but I can see you havent given it a few formas and some playing time. I love my synapse in the void, or against the corpus in general

Wtf? Why would i nerf the weaker weapons ? :D

And no,i have both weapons,check the damage stats again,synapse is weaker against all faction

[SpilockT_T]

Nerf the weaker weapons to be on par with the stronger ones...........no thanks, that would take all the fun out of the game

Soma is better than the synapse.....maybe, but I can see you havent given it a few formas and some playing time. I love my synapse in the void, or against the corpus in general

 

You should read the OP(Original post) again.

[GhostWOlf995]

You should read the OP(Original post) again.

yea,thats a good tip XD

[ZzVinniezZ]

soon™

[Authion]

+1 for clan tech weapon must be stronger than a normal market weapon
and prime weapon should be strongest since it comes from ancient orokin

but NO if you want everything get buff and make every gun have the same power

warframe really needs a lot to balance :/

[NikolaiLev]

Don't worry, everything will be balanced soon

 

DE has never even given any indication they're working on balance issues, of which there are many.

 

+1 for clan tech weapon must be stronger than a normal market weapon

and prime weapon should be strongest since it comes from ancient orokin

but NO if you want everything get buff and make every gun have the same power

warframe really needs a lot to balance :/

 

How about no?  I'd rather have more weapon variety than things I have to grind for in the void.

 

There's little reason for most weapons to just be sidegrades of each other.  That way we get far more variety.  If there are upgrades, let them be double-edged upgrades (i.e. Braton prime having more dps than braton due to a higher rate of fire, but slightly less damage, meaning its ammo efficiency suffers a little) or very slight upgrades (i.e. burston prime dealing 5 more damage than burston, rather than the crit, status, fire rate, damage, etc.. it has).

[dukelego]

Or reduce crafting costs so new players have weapons to choose from

Look for a primary weapon new players can build on earth

And melee and secondary to i think

Next two planets you do get the stuff you need but still...

Edited February 27, 2014 by dukelego

[GhostWOlf995]

+1 for clan tech weapon must be stronger than a normal market weapon

and prime weapon should be strongest since it comes from ancient orokin

but NO if you want everything get buff and make every gun have the same power

warframe really needs a lot to balance :/

No,not every weapon to same lv.. We need to feel some progres,so no,but those which requiere nastery rank,a lot of resources...

[AscendantWyvern]

#BuffTheBo2014

[Cpl_Facehugger]

DE has never even given any indication they're working on balance issues, of which there are many.

 

 

So you don't watch livestreams at all, then? 'Cuz they talk about balance fairly often.

 

There's little reason for most weapons to just be sidegrades of each other.  That way we get far more variety.  If there are upgrades, let them be double-edged upgrades (i.e. Braton prime having more dps than braton due to a higher rate of fire, but slightly less damage, meaning its ammo efficiency suffers a little) or very slight upgrades (i.e. burston prime dealing 5 more damage than burston, rather than the crit, status, fire rate, damage, etc.. it has).

 

Assuming you mean there's little reason for most weapons to not just be sidegrades, I can firmly say that's nonsense. DE's running into issues balancing the guns we have now with a tier system that lets them break the guns into managable chunks, much less a 200-gun free for all where every gun has to be balanced around every other gun.

I mean, Jesus, the complexity of balancing a sidegrade system grows exponentially with every new gun you add. It's totally unworkable. A pipe dream that sounds nice in theory but fails utterly when you have to put it into practice.

 

And then, of course, there's the lack of progression inherent to a sidegrade system.

[GhostWOlf995]

Yea we need weapon tiers,its nonsense if a lv 2 mastery player has all of top weapons , but i dont talk abouth that.. Weapons that cost more,have higher mastery requierement,you need to be in a clan to research it,you need a lot more time, those weapons sould be stronger than their couterparts,which is not the case..

sry for english

[Davoodoo]

Assuming you mean there's little reason for most weapons to not just be sidegrades, I can firmly say that's nonsense. DE's running into issues balancing the guns we have now with a tier system that lets them break the guns into managable chunks, much less a 200-gun free for all where every gun has to be balanced around every other gun.

I mean, Jesus, the complexity of balancing a sidegrade system grows exponentially with every new gun you add. It's totally unworkable. A pipe dream that sounds nice in theory but fails utterly when you have to put it into practice.

 

And then, of course, there's the lack of progression inherent to a sidegrade system.

I would like to ask you what tier system do you mean??

tier 1 (u8 and earlier weapons) consists of:

generic assault rifle(braton,dera,grakata), generic semi auto rifle(latron), generic semi auto sniper rifle(snipetron,vulkar), generic semi auto shotgun(strun,hek), generic automatic shotgun(boar), machine guns(gorgon,supra), bows(paris,dread), throwing knifes(hikou,kunai,despair), explosive weapon(ogris), charged sniper rifle(lanka), bolt assault rifle(boltor), generic semi auto pistols(lato,lex), bolt pistols(boltos,acrid), machine pistols(vipers,furis), beam gun(flux), flamethrower(ignis), burst rifle(burston), burst pistol(sicarus, kraken), hand cannon(bronco), 

 

I might missed few guns(skipped niche guns and primes on purpose), but most of these things were more or less balanced with exception of acrid, sniper rifles and prenerf hek.

 

Now tier 2 (everything after tier 1 basically)

generic assault rifle(karak, tetra), generic semi auto rifle(grinlok), generic semi auto sniper rifle(none), generic semi auto shotgun changed into flak cannon and/or double barreled shotgun(drakgoon and/or tigris), generic automatic shotgun(sobek), machine gun(soma), bow(cernos), throwing knifes(none or castanas), explosive weapon(penta), charged sniper rifle changed into bolt action sniper rifle(vectis), bolt assault rifle(none), generic semi auto pistols(vastos,magnus, seer, marelok), bolt pistols(twin gremlin,tysis,ballistica), machine pistols(cestra, akstilleto), beam gun(synapse, phase), flamethrower(none or phage depending on use), burst rifle(hind), burst pistol(none), hand cannon (brakk,detron)

 

When tier 1 was pretty balanced tier 2 is just a mess.

Soma which was released earlier is as accurate as assault rifles while having higher dps and similiar reload speed, both soma requires a nerf and karak,tetra a buff if they are meant to be tier 2, cernos no matter how do i look at it its underperfoming, grinlok underperfoming, being worse than even t1 bows, penta is hands down better choice than ogris so its fine, semi auto pistols are fine tbh nothing to change there, bolt pistols are underperfoming, machine pistols are tbh sidegrades to tier 1 instead of being legitimate tier 2, beam guns fine for t2, lack of flamethrower type gun is bit dissapointing but hopefuly freeze gun might be the answer, hind heavily underperforming, detron is being balanced while brakk destroying everything else.

That many balance problems i have found only within tier 2 without mentioning that flak cannon and double barreled shotgun play way differently than semi auto shotguns(namely strun), bolt action rifle isnt the same as charge one but thats fine. Many of tier 1 guns got buff that made even t2 guns obsolete.

 

To sum it up either it is tiered system or its sidegrades or its mess like we have now.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Well, I never said the tier system we have now is particularly well implemented. I just said it exists. :p

And that it's fairly necessary to actually balancing an arsenal consisting of hundreds of weapons.

[Davoodoo]

Well, I never said the tier system we have now is particularly well implemented. I just said it exists. :p

And that it's fairly necessary to actually balancing an arsenal consisting of hundreds of weapons.

I was overjoyed when i 1st heard about tiered system. 

 

New powerful weapons to fight new powerful opponents, i will get new more powerful semi auto and assault rifles.

 

But now after 4 updates

 

New powerful weapons being imbalanced even in their respective tier + old actually weaker than before opponents, new assault rifle doesnt feel anywhere like my old braton or dera, at least i can still use my braton and dera to have succeses even against artificial difficulty endless scaling providing 0 new challenge.

 

Sorry i just lost all hope that tier system might work in warframe

Edited February 28, 2014 by Davoodoo

[NikolaiLev]

Or reduce crafting costs so new players have weapons to choose from

Look for a primary weapon new players can build on earth

And melee and secondary to i think

Next two planets you do get the stuff you need but still...

 

These are decent suggestions, but they're just bandaid solutions.  Buffing starter gear would fix the core issue.

 

#BuffTheBo2014

 

Agreed!

 

So you don't watch livestreams at all, then? 'Cuz they talk about balance fairly often.

 

 

 

Assuming you mean there's little reason for most weapons to not just be sidegrades, I can firmly say that's nonsense. DE's running into issues balancing the guns we have now with a tier system that lets them break the guns into managable chunks, much less a 200-gun free for all where every gun has to be balanced around every other gun.

I mean, Jesus, the complexity of balancing a sidegrade system grows exponentially with every new gun you add. It's totally unworkable. A pipe dream that sounds nice in theory but fails utterly when you have to put it into practice.

 

And then, of course, there's the lack of progression inherent to a sidegrade system.

 

I do.  The only one I haven't watched was the last one, and from the summary they didn't say a word about balance.

 

Also, balancing for a sidegrade system is, if anything, easier.  All you have to do is establish a mid-line; a generalist weapon that everything can be balanced around, chosen for its desireable time-to-kill and utility.  Then just change weapons from there.  Right now, there is no balance direction.  It's not even "Harder to get: better" because the Galatine is as easy to get as many other weapons yet is close to the best melee weapon in the game.

 

And the notion that sidegrade systems lack progression is 1) irrelevant and 2) nonsense to start with.  With sidegrade progression, you gain access to more specialized weapons as you explore options.  You have more choices.  And frankly, I'd rather have variety than progression.

[GhostWOlf995]

These are decent suggestions, but they're just bandaid solutions.  Buffing starter gear would fix the core issue.

 

 

Agreed!

 

 

I do.  The only one I haven't watched was the last one, and from the summary they didn't say a word about balance.

 

Also, balancing for a sidegrade system is, if anything, easier.  All you have to do is establish a mid-line; a generalist weapon that everything can be balanced around, chosen for its desireable time-to-kill and utility.  Then just change weapons from there.  Right now, there is no balance direction.  It's not even "Harder to get: better" because the Galatine is as easy to get as many other weapons yet is close to the best melee weapon in the game.

 

And the notion that sidegrade systems lack progression is 1) irrelevant and 2) nonsense to start with.  With sidegrade progression, you gain access to more specialized weapons as you explore options.  You have more choices.  And frankly, I'd rather have variety than progression.

This.. I totaly forgot galatine, it outperform nearly every melee ingame while easy to get..

[Khunvyel]

These are decent suggestions, but they're just bandaid solutions.  Buffing starter gear would fix the core issue.

 

I tested New-player-experience when damage 2.0 hit live and it isn't as bad as many people paint it. There are issues, yes, but it isn't super annoying.

 

You get your next melee weapon as the Cronus after killing Vor, and considering the material requirements, you should be able to build it the instant you get it.

The MK1-Braton isn't the worst rifle and still performs well on Venus thanks to the slash damage.

The Lato is the big problem. After it got nerfed down to half of it's original damage, there was no single incentive to  use it any more. Before, it hit a bit harder than the Mk1, and that was very complementary. Nowadays, there is zero incentive to switch to the Lato. MK1 is more accurate and does more damage and has a bigger clip.

 

So you can decide... are you spending your first 25.000 bucks for the Braton or 50.000 for the Lex, because the Aklato currently is as crap as the regular one, since they DOWNGRADED it to be in line with it's single-handed counterpart. I repeat myself countless times, but I still stick to it:

Old Lato damage: 24. New: 12. Bring it to 18, and it is justified again. Yes, the old Lato was a really good weapon to begin with, I expected a slight nerf. a SLIGHT one. Not tossing it into the void.

 

 

back on topic;

 

We are getting a new weapon every week since quite a while. There needs to be a proper ... wait, lemme borrow a word... "Tiericide" before anything else can be done. We need a system that populates Warframe and Weapon acquisition by Mastery Rank far better than it currently does in order to cope with the ridiculous amount of upcoming additions. Redistributing old and dated weapons to new tiers are going to justify some buffs to them.

 

I have mixed feelings with my own suggestion because I am usually against the gear-up and powercreep, but then again... if done right, and if the differences are spaced accordingly, then why not? Because in the end, I will think about it to throw away my R4 Weapon after unlocking R5, because perhaps I've already put two Formas on it? Some weapons only feel inherently better because they are shipped with (useful) polarities. Starting to have polarities which are in line with mastery requirements would be a nice thing.

Also, I don't want to see every weapon being balanced around the same standards. As important it is to keep the old players well fed, it is equally important to lure in new players. And to be fair, there are a lot of issues that need to be solved which are not only weapon-based in order to have a constant stream of new players STAYING. I know, beta is beta, but the longer it takes for the beta to become a fully fledged product, the more it will linger in people's heads that "Digital Extreme just messes around with Warframe and never gets something done properly, so the game is just a long shot and prone to die out soon anyway."

 

With a new tiered system, I'd like to also see a way to iterate existing weapons. Let's face it, some weapons just grow onto us. I'd love to fetch myself a blueprint for a Braton MK2 on Mastery Rank 4 which requires the Mk1 version as part of the materials so I get a slightly better version of it. You can totally do the same with the Skana. I kinda miss it. The Skana served me well, and it wasn't until I almost cleared out all earth missions before I got myself a new sausage slicer.