[Poll] Should Mods Have Less Influence On Damage Output?

[DJSmash]

*Snip*

 

The first problem is that content does not scale to the power level of the mods.  The highest level "normal" mobs---NOT the ones you stand on a box in a defense mission waiting for--should be a relative challenge for the highest modded weaponry.

 

*Snip*

 

Please enlighten the community how do you actually SCALE content based on the power level of the mods?

 

Because a newbie, a seasonsed player and a hardcore player will all have different power level of mods AND on top of that, you have CO-OP play and SOLO play.

 

Please enligthen me in particular how can you successfully SCALE content base on the power level of the mods?

 

 

The issue with this to me is that if you do this, these damage mods become even more essential and your balance gets even worse. Think back on the whole argument for a second.

 

*Snip*

That's what some of us here have been saying! The existing SCALING is already considered bad! and here come's a suggestion to re-scale on the "already bad scaling method" ..what?

[Thrymm]

You don't have to "scale to the power level of the mods".  What needs to happen is missions need to be available with enemies of power relative to that of the weaponry when modded--content does not scale to this level.

 

I realize that people have different levels of mod----ergo, different levels of content should be available, not just the current "easy, moving to moderate"

 

I read what "some of you where saying".  I think your idea is as bad as you think mine is.....what?  Why would you revamp the entirety of the character progression system(hint: mods and forma are it, certainly not the weak sauce character levelling) when there is simply no content that is relevant to what the players are capable of?

 

Now, if we are to assume that the rest of the game should permanently be as it is, then yes, I'd be inclined to agree that mods need to be nerfed straight into the ground.  If the game is going to progress to a difficulty level different than "100 waves of defense", however, the game needs to grow into the mods, not the other way around.

[Finn_and_Jake01]

No. I love +100% damage on my aklex.

[DJSmash]

*Snip*

..however, the game needs to grow into the mods, not the other way around.

 

 

*Snip*

..MORE powercreep into this game.

 

*Snip*

 

 

If this is the direction this beta product is heading..kindly remove every single non-damage mod. Just give us one x1000% damage mod. and then every enemy x1000% hp,shield,armour & quantity.

 

The end.

[Legion-Shields]

Absolutely 100% yes. Mod scaling is a huge issue in this game, and has been for months.

Right now, new players are finding it mathematically impossible to do much more than tickle mid-leveled enemies like Alad V, while "veterans" can simply blow them apart in a matter of seconds. The new player feels useless. The veteran finds the fight unfulfilling.

In the end, neither player enjoyed the fight.

The effect of the mod system is, in its current state, reminiscent of Maplestory and Vindictus-- completely Stat2Win. The mod system in its current state causes the game to function as a series of stat walls, which should never be the case in any shooting game. There's a stupidly large gap between modded and unmodded weaponry, and it needs to be lowered.

This is a shooting game. It shouldn't be so damn stat-based.

On the contrary, this is an RPG, hence why it is so stat-based. Edited March 2, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[Lost_Cartographer]

I think exponential damage mods are fine.  I can always strip away my damage if I want things to be harder.

 

My beefs with the current mod system are that I only have eight slots to work with, and I might not burn all 60 points filling those eight, and as more environments are added, I'll be required to look into bringing SOME damage mods depending on where I'm going.  Up through Phobos, I don't really need damage mods on most weaponry to function against most targets.  Beyond that, they become ever more necessary.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Littleman88

[(PSN)mkjt88]

Absolutely not.. Damag mods maxed out are still barely enough on most weapons.. Especially melee. On the higher weapons they do destroy lower lvls but still slow down on high waves so taking them down would just take really high waves and most low lvl weapons out of the game.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Absolutely not.. Damag mods maxed out are still barely enough on most weapons.. Especially melee. On the higher weapons they do destroy lower lvls but still slow down on high waves so taking them down would just take really high waves and most low lvl weapons out of the game.

 

What do you consider "high wave"?

 

Because for a lot of guns with maxed out mods, high wave means waiting until you're like 40 minutes to 1 hour+ in T3 survival to actually start having your guns tested.

[(PSN)mkjt88]

High wave lvl 45-50+

[Monolake]

High wave lvl 45-50+

Not a problem for potatoed no-forma soma (thats about half of Soma maxed potential)

even easier vs corpus/infested. 

People are beating lvl100s with maxed Karak or Boltor (these are average DPS weapons)

So the point is mods are incredibly strong, its about 40-60 times difference between max modded and no-mods weapon, allowing average weapons to be high level and making good weapons ridiculously OP.

 

Melee is viable at high levels only if you use Loki/Ash for 4x damge

[Rorgal_Sina]

I liked the impact mods have on the weapons. The game made them necessary, and it's nice going on your "quest" for your ultimate build. But what's wrong is that there are no alternatives to damage + multishot+ elemental builds. It can use a little creativity, adding in more useful mods with better stats and negative stats to add diversity.

 

But the most important thing is that this game needs a definitive way of getting them. I guess they are, but RNG probably isn't the best way. So yeah, allow important mods to be rewards, like everytime you hit a Master Rank, you can choose between two mods, each with the ups and downs.

 

Mod a pillow into a nuclear bomb? Unless if you are the type of player that wants pillow to stay pillow, I believe the quest for mods should be satisfying and with an interesting result. Right now the quest is pretty difficult due to RNG.

 

To choose a weapon that you like and mod it to what you want is a factor I'd like kept in this game. Furthermore, if you want to scale your weapons to enemy levels, it's probably also easier with mods.

[Calayne]

Bigger numbers and being forced to use specific mods is your idea of fun?

Something tells me you'll find this fun:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachable_thumb

Edited March 3, 2014 by Calayne

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

High wave lvl 45-50+

 

My Mk1-Braton has no issues dealing with mobs in the 30-40 range. Any actually somewhat decent weapon that is modded out should have no issue with levels 45-50. Any actually good weapon should be able to poop on a 45-50 enemy.

[Rorgal_Sina]

It appears that you think I like how Serration + Split Chamber + 4 Elements is necessary? I don't want to talk to you anymore....

 

Edit: And this quote system won't even work for me.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Rorgal_Sina

[(PSN)mkjt88]

Not a problem for potatoed no-forma soma (thats about half of Soma maxed potential)

even easier vs corpus/infested. 

People are beating lvl100s with maxed Karak or Boltor (these are average DPS weapons)

So the point is mods are incredibly strong, its about 40-60 times difference between max modded and no-mods weapon, allowing average weapons to be high level and making good weapons ridiculously OP.

 

Melee is viable at high levels only if you use Loki/Ash for 4x damge

I don't know who's killing lvl 100s with boltor mine has one from top serration 2-3 from top heavy cal and maxed split chamber plus the few others and it absolutely will not mow down even lvl 50's and up.. I think you need to recheck that.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I don't know who's killing lvl 100s with boltor mine has one from top serration 2-3 from top heavy cal and maxed split chamber plus the few others and it absolutely will not mow down even lvl 50's and up.. I think you need to recheck that.

 

Post the whole build that you use against, say, Grineer, or Void stuff.

Edited March 3, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[(PSN)mkjt88]

I have those cards plus full storm and cryo for magnetic on corpus.. I honesty haven't used the gun for awhile but did try it out again after the buff from the update and know i was starting to struggle and didn't wanna go over wave 35 with it since it isn't as strong along with slower speeds etc. and i wasn't on a team to be doing high waves. I believe enemies are bout lvl 45-50 then on xini which i was using it on. Obviously it will still be an ok gun at that lvl and I'm not saying its junk past lvl 45-50 by any means but it would be if you don't have the potato and maxed cards.. I've never done lvl 60s with the boltor since the update but know it isn't gonna hang till 100... Maybe pre U11.

[(PSN)mkjt88]

You know i actually don't know if i had my heavy cal on it then or not.. Its a good weapon either way but the heavy cal does to damage to its spread.. Either way i don't believe the mods are to strong i enjoy them. Is rather see new higher enemies rather than nerf anything..

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

First off, that's a 5/8 mod build gun.

 

Second, Boltor is a mainly puncture weapon and thus really not even that good for Corpus.

 

A Corpus Crewman at level 50 has roughly 2.2k HP and 2.8k shields, or around 5k total "health". A Boltor with those mods will do a little over 500 damage per shot on average. With the Boltor's firing rate, that's a little over 1 second (10 shots) per Crewman to kill. Not the greatest, but not exactly terrible either. It would probably be faster since the Magnetic damage bonus against shields should provide a much higher DPS overall while their shields are up despite Puncture's negative to shields. If you replaced your elementals with pure poison and stuck a bane mod in, you'd be able to kill the same target in about 4 shots, a quarter second kill time. Sure it's still not a Soma, but it's definitely enough to work with. Add in a punch through mod and you could mow down waves of crewmen pretty easily. Moas would take 7-8 shots, but still not that bad honestly if you are using punch through. And you still have one mod slot left to use.

 

Also, from what I've read DE doesn't even balance for as high as level 50.

[stgreylv]

No, cause you have to work really hard to make a gun of your dream,

[(PSN)mkjt88]

First off, that's a 5/8 mod build gun.

Second, Boltor is a mainly puncture weapon and thus really not even that good for Corpus.

A Corpus Crewman at level 50 has roughly 2.2k HP and 2.8k shields, or around 5k total "health". A Boltor with those mods will do a little over 500 damage per shot on average. With the Boltor's firing rate, that's a little over 1 second (10 shots) per Crewman to kill. Not the greatest, but not exactly terrible either. It would probably be faster since the Magnetic damage bonus against shields should provide a much higher DPS overall while their shields are up despite Puncture's negative to shields. If you replaced your elementals with pure poison and stuck a bane mod in, you'd be able to kill the same target in about 4 shots, a quarter second kill time. Sure it's still not a Soma, but it's definitely enough to work with. Add in a punch through mod and you could mow down waves of crewmen pretty easily. Moas would take 7-8 shots, but still not that bad honestly if you are using punch through. And you still have one mod slot left to use.

Also, from what I've read DE doesn't even balance for as high as level 50.

Like i said i know it's not a terrible weapon i never meant that to be my intent.. I just didn't see it handling lvl 100s very well. Another thing those numbers look better on paper as you have to include heavy cals downfall.. I know from medium and especially long range even burst shots the spread will be as wide as a door so you won't ever get all shots to hit the mark so you have to shoot more than you need and therefore also reload more often since its a smaller clip Edited March 3, 2014 by (PS4)mkjt88

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

A level 100 Crewman would have ~8.9k HP, which would take the Toxic modded Boltor around 14 shots to kill. Pretty ammo inefficient at that point, but if you take into account people using stuff like Roar based builds, Molecular Prime, or Sonar letting you do 2-5x+ damage, it's still pretty doable.

 

Granted, Corpus and Infested die fast regardless. The faction that actually really scales up in TTK are the Grineer and their corrupted counterparts.

[BlackVortex]

I guess weapon growth does future-proof a bit better.

 

 

If absolutely nothing else, crit builds need to get obliterated.  They scale far too uniquely to be balanced against the rest of the mod pool.

 

These are my two favorite adjacent sentences I've seen on this forum in a long time.

 

 

1. This is hilariously false.  Give me one downside to the Soma.  Give me one upside to the Spectra.  Are those extreme cases?  Of course, but this game isn't remotely close to balanced.

 

2. And those mods get used on all other content in the game because people will instagib what they can instagib.

if you can't see how each weapon has it's ups and downs, you haven't explored the gamemechanics enough

 

first there are the base damage types slash impact and puncture, each of which is better suited for a different faction in terms of damage

then there is the fact that each of those damage types has its own status effect

impact being better for cc and slash being better for dps, I find puncture to be irrelevant because I hardly ever need my opponent to get a damage debuff

next to that there is magazine size/reload speed/fire rate, if you cannot see how these are related then there's no point in explaining

 

we also have something that is called status effect which imo is where most of the differences in use of weapons becomes more clear

there are certain weapons more suited to function as status effect weapons and others that are better at pure dps, where others are better at creating crit builds

 

there is lots of diversity in the weapons, but I guess you just haven't explored them well enough, or just aren't aware of them

 

the downside to the soma, is that it is not an AOE weapon and that it hasn't got 100% accuracy

using it with heavy caliber makes it highly inaccurate where other weapons don't notice it at all (or actually improves use)

every time you do not make a crit, the dmg is negligible because it has a poor base damage making it not the most stable damage output

also the status chance isn't very good compared to the grakata

it has a 7% status chance vs a 25%

although the soma might be the best overall assaultrifle, it is by far the best weapon as it isn't the best at anything

 

the soma is a jack of all trades, master of none