It Can't Be True.... (Rhino Prime Run Speed)

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

Let me tell you reasons why Loki is better than Rhino by community:

 

1. He has lowest stats of all frames. Meaning that he has highest Risk VS Reward gameplay even with the perma invis you are still vulnerable.

2. Run speed makes it easy to other frames let the Loki take the tasks what are far away and not requiring defending.

3. Radial disarm. :D Troll and tool

4. All the trolls with the Switch Teleport.

5. Scout job.

 

Reasons why Rhino shouldn't have the speed buffs:

 

1. As a tank you are SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH YOUR GOD DAMN TEAM!

2. You have highest health and damage & CC protection ability.

3. You can lock down enemies to stasis for a long time.

4. Roar increases damage output and armor so be with your team and don't rush.

5. LOWEST RISK VS REWARD FRAME.

6. HE IS BY FAR EASIEST WARFRAME TO LEVEL UP AND PLAY AS. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!

 

There I think this should fill you all why Loki is supposed to be the fastest.

 

A proper tank should be enganging to play with a high risk/reward ration, the tank is tanking the hits for the entire team and there are ways to make this an incredibly skill-dependent task, unfortunatly rhino isn't made like that

 

Zephyr's base speed is faster than Loki's, isn't it? And of course tailwind lets her zoom around the map faster than zorencopters if she's properly modded.

 

loki's sprint speed is 1.25, zephyrs is 1.2 iirc

 

I wish I had a downvote button for both your post and his post. I mean, it's pretty clear neither of you have actually played a non-vanguard Rhino. While in theory slow speed should make up for the advantages he gets, it doesn't. It vastly overshadows them because in actual gameplay, what actually happens is your team rushes on ahead and leaves you in the dust without any enemies to kill. Your team, meanwhile, is waiting at extraction for your slow rhino to huff and puff his way there.

I've mained Rhino since I started playing the game. I mained him before vanguard helmet came out, so I'm in a good position to know what it's like. And what it's like simply wasn't fun unless soloing because he's too slow.

Frost only gets away with being slow because his niche is defending a stationary pod and he could do with a speed boost too. Saryn, the other sub-1.0 speed frame has her own alt helmet to counteract that.

 

you know, it's not the fact that rhino can keep up but rather the fact that he is faster than anything except loki. nerfing vanguard down to 15% or rhino primes sprint speed to 0.9 would bring him in line with frames like nyx/nekros/ash (i would buff rhinos speed to 1 along with saryn/frost and nerf vanguard to 15%, would benefit players w/o vanguard) . it's not that anyone wants to take your fun away (at least not me), it's just the point that rhino prime is too fast right now.

[TwiceDead]

I wish I had a downvote button for both your post and his post. I mean, it's pretty clear neither of you have actually played a non-vanguard Rhino. 

Hmm... I wonder what makes you push a claim like this... Do elaborate how me agreeing with another person's mindset/opinion =/= me never having played a non-vanguard Rhino, just curious. Far as I can tell, you have no basis for making this assumption, arguments are not won by baseless call-outs. By the way you mentioned earlier that Zephyr has a higher base-speed than Loki. As unfortunate as it is, you're wrong in this case.

 

While in theory slow speed should make up for the advantages he gets, it doesn't. It vastly overshadows them because in actual gameplay, what actually happens is your team rushes on ahead and leaves you in the dust without any enemies to kill. Your team, meanwhile, is waiting at extraction for your slow rhino to huff and puff his way there.

Frost has the same issue, and currently he's according to the community in a vastly worse situation than Rhino will ever be. Besides he has Rhino Charge and i'll remind you Coptering is a thing. If a player can't keep up, he simply doesn't know the geometry he's running across and doesn't know how to exploit Zoren-coptering(assuming they are using Zoren's or another quick-hitting melee weapon), unless there's a Nova running up front priming everything... In that case I understand. 

 

Personally I have no problems keeping up with people on my Frost, and his base-speed is equal to normal Rhino's. Just slap on Rush and you shouldn't have that much problem. If I can do it, then I am bloody certain other people can as well. 

I've mained Rhino since I started playing the game. I mained him before vanguard helmet came out, so I'm in a good position to know what it's like. And what it's like simply wasn't fun unless soloing because he's too slow.

Failing to see the relevancy of this... You've played Rhino for a long time, I get it... But then what if I make a claim that I have played all the frames for a long time? Including Rhino? Would you believe me? Would that make my arguments any more right in your mind if I told you this? I could even make the claim that I don't use Vanguard-Helmet simply because the stock helmet looks so much better... But hey, here's just me making claims, what do you really know? For all you know I could be lying to the point where bodily fluids of lies overflows out of my nostrils. 

Otherwise it sounds like you fell victim to a Nova on Rush spamming M-Prime, but other than that I am uncertain what to think. Of course it could've been another frame with press 4 to win if it was on lower difficulties. 

Frost only gets away with being slow because his niche is defending a stationary pod and he could do with a speed boost too. Saryn, the other sub-1.0 speed frame has her own alt helmet to counteract that.

He has minor problems catching up to other people, I get that, but as long as you don't deliberately give them a head-start and have good knowledge of the map-tile-set and the geometry you're about to travel across you can easily counter this weakness, but to say that his sole purpose is to sit in one place and defend is kind of looking at it from a narrow point of view, if I may be blunt. Of course if two people of equal knowledge of the map tileset were to race when one uses a frost and the other uses a Loki, the frost will lose. The stats decide the victor in that case. 

 

 

 

Now what was the point of this discussion again? 

Edited March 9, 2014 by TwiceDead

[HolidayPi3]

What??? There is nothing baseless and or is anything I typed an "assumption."

Do I really have to type out why?

 

And why shouldnt he have utility from stomp and Roar? Im kinda confused as to what your getting at with that statement.

 

Most content comes from sub 40 stuff for YOU, I tend not to hang out in "newbie zones." when im max level. So that point is very subjective.

Unless you play all the content, you are not qualified to comment on all of the content. The times I revisit solar system content sub pluto I understand im going to faceroll it, that has nothing to do with Rhino, I play Ash. So yea, high level being thrown out because its what I and most vets play.

 

Once more, Rhino is not a tank. No warframe is, His extended shield (iron skin) makes him mmore durable than most other frames, But it isnt enough to call him a tank. Go drop a 20 minute pluto survival with a Rhino and see how long you are going to tank for.

 

No warframe should be below 1.0 speed. And thats what four or five of the haters want. 

It is a baseless assumption. Again you state that sub-40 is for people like "me." I didn't say that that's where I play. I'm OBJECTIVELY stating the DE has put THE MAJORITY OF GAME CONTENT within this level zone. It is a baseless assumption because how can you possibly know that they don't play high level content?

I'm not saying he shouldn't have utility. It's the fact that he has damage and utility and durability, all of which were designed to be at the expense of his speed. Guess what he has now? Speed.

Also, you state that x frames have better utility than him. Gee, maybe because they were CREATED for that? Those are their bread and butter skills and its all their frame has.

'Banshee has a bettter damage amp.' Does she have a mass CC that doesn't lock her down like Rhino does? Is she tanky and get CC immunity like Rhino?

'Nova has better damage and a damage amp' Is she tanky like Rhino? Can she be immune to CC? Can she freeze whole rooms?

'Loki and Ash can be invisible and avoid damage' At the expense of their glassiness. Plus they can't buff their whole team like Rhino can, or freeze whole rooms, or even get AoE damage out if it's low level (Bladestorm is trash). They deserve their speed.

Saying that each of these frame's signature skills outshines one of Rhino's many useful skills is a weak argument. Because as whole, Rhino has a LOT going for him. Which was supposed to be at the cost of his speed... but now look what's happened.

And before you go on to accuse me on not playing Rhino, don't even start. I use the Thrak helmet more often than Vanguard.

Edited March 9, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[TwiceDead]

loki's sprint speed is 1.25, zephyrs is 1.2 iirc

Wiki lists Zephyrs speed as 1.15, equal to Ash. Is the Wiki wrong in this case? Genuine curiosity. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

Vanguards speed comes with a price, lower power strength....and if you think that is not something worrying, then take a moment to understand that Ironskin (that awfull skill that everyone always complains about) gets influenced by power strength. Thus a faster rhino with vanguard is a weaker rhino, Damage abilities included. The sad part is you get the Thrakk helm and it basically boosts your health...but nerfs your speed and nerfing .8 speed is bad. If R.prime has increased speed, it gives us that option to drop the vanguard and get our stronger Ironskin back....stack it with Roar....Oh....Yes.

 

There are frames with much better stats on their alt helms, but no one complains about this.

 

Personally, THANK YOU DE...Rhino Prime looks AWESOME and I cant wait to take him for a spin. Now I can put my normal rhino to rest and have the new big guy take his place. I would have liked him to have base HP of 150, like Saryn,Ash and Frost....but I am not complaining about what I get regardless, with IS being a 3rd healthbar that keeps you alive...^^

 

I think the ALL primes should be slightly better stat wise compared to the normals. Like the weapon versions, it should be more special. Getting them should be a challenge and a reward in itself. Knowing that there are 2 frosts in a squad, 1 normal 1 prime, surely the prime has to be superior...that should be the whole point of what the Void does too you. Look at the mobs there, they are all more powerfull than their normal counterparts....BRING IT TO FRAMES TOO. That would mean you could have an even more invisible Loki.....oooooh.

 

Slightly lower power strength is not a reasonable price for being on-par with Loki in sprint speed. As someone else pointed out, the strength decrease is only 5%.

All the people crying about perma-invis Loki need to stop. Unlike Rhino, Loki trades health and shields for that invisibility and speed. Rhino Prime (the conversation is not about reg. Rhino so take your 'waah base Rhino too slow' complaints elsewhere) with Vanguard helm equipped is the same speed as Loki. His trade-off for that speed is... -5% power strength. lolwut. Iron Skin can be re-cast constantly and even in the most dire situations it will allow him to take at least one more bullet than most other frames (sans blessing or hysteria).

If Vanguard is going to be allowed to affect Rhino prime, his sprint speed should be kicked down to .9 like regular Rhino's.

 

 

I wish I had a downvote button for both your post and his post. I mean, it's pretty clear neither of you have actually played a non-vanguard Rhino. While in theory slow speed should make up for the advantages he gets, it doesn't. It vastly overshadows them because in actual gameplay, what actually happens is your team rushes on ahead and leaves you in the dust without any enemies to kill. Your team, meanwhile, is waiting at extraction for your slow rhino to huff and puff his way there.

I've mained Rhino since I started playing the game. I mained him before vanguard helmet came out, so I'm in a good position to know what it's like. And what it's like simply wasn't fun unless soloing because he's too slow.

Frost only gets away with being slow because his niche is defending a stationary pod and he could do with a speed boost too. Saryn, the other sub-1.0 speed frame has her own alt helmet to counteract that.

 

I used to main a Thrak Rhino. I played him so much that he is my second most played frame (Loki beats him by 1% last time I looked). I had very little trouble keeping up. Once Vanguard helmet came out things became ridiculous. Rhino prime is even worse.

Edited March 9, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Hmm... I wonder what makes you push a claim like this... Do elaborate how me agreeing with another person's mindset/opinion =/= me never having played a non-vanguard Rhino, just curious. Far as I can tell, you have no basis for making this assumption, arguments are not won by baseless call-outs.

It should be fairly simple. You endorse an ignorant claim. That claim being "Rhino isn't hampered by his slow speed". The only way anyone could actually make that claim is if they're playing pure theoryframe and haven't actually tested it in a real PUG environment, or they've had the amazing luck to always get a team who doesn't rush and is willing to wait for the 10% slower Rhino to catch up. Ergo, since you endorse that ignorant claim, you haven't played Rhino much either, since otherwise you wouldn't be endorsing that claim.

Understand?

 

By the way you mentioned earlier that Zephyr has a higher base-speed than Loki. As unfortunate as it is, you're wrong in this case.

Apparently I was. By a whole 0.05 speed. Of course, nobody actually cares about that because tailwind.

 

Frost has the same issue, and currently he's according to the community in a vastly worse situation than Rhino will ever be. Besides he has Rhino Charge and i'll remind you Coptering is a thing. If a player can't keep up, he simply doesn't know the geometry he's running across and doesn't know how to exploit Zoren-coptering(assuming they are using Zoren's or another quick-hitting melee weapon), unless there's a Nova running up front priming everything... In that case I understand.

Coptering doesn't count though because it invalidates all speed stats. If you copter you could have 0.1 speed and it wouldn't matter because coptering depends on melee speed rather than sprint speed. If we're taking coptering as a valid answer to "Rhino is too slow", then there's no point in comparing sprint speed at all since everyone copters at the same speed. Rhino prime too fast? Copter to keep up with him. Same logic.

 

Personally I have no problems keeping up with people on my Frost, and his base-speed is equal to normal Rhino's. Just slap on Rush and you shouldn't have that much problem. If I can do it, then I am bloody certain other people can as well.

Other people will usually slot in a rush of their own. Which means that 10% slower speed hurts.

 

Failing to see the relevancy of this...

It's called establishing your ethos as a rhetor, you know?

 

Otherwise it sounds like you fell victim to a Nova on Rush spamming M-Prime, but other than that I am uncertain what to think. Of course it could've been another frame with press 4 to win if it was on lower difficulties.

We're discussing pre-vanguard Rhino here. That's long before Nova.

If you're curious it was mostly Lokis who rush ahead and kill everything with guns before the Rhino can catch up. This was in damage 1.0 where most powers were fairly useless against high level opponents and everyone carried an Acrid.

 

He has minor problems catching up to other people, I get that, but as long as you don't deliberately give them a head-start and have good knowledge of the map-tile-set and the geometry you're about to travel across you can easily counter this weakness,

Zorencopters don't count.

 

I used to main a Thrak Rhino. I played him so much that he is my second most played frame (Loki beats him by 1% last time I looked). I had very little trouble keeping up.

Okay, now did you zorencopter? Because if you say no, I am going to call shenanigans on this. Thrak Rhino is 15% slower than any other frame that isn't Frost or non-Hemlock Saryn. That's a significant amount.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[TwiceDead]

It should be fairly simple. You endorse an ignorant claim. That claim being "Rhino isn't hampered by his slow speed". The only way anyone could actually make that claim is if they're playing pure theoryframe and haven't actually tested it in a real PUG environment, or they've had the amazing luck to always get a team who doesn't rush and is willing to wait for the 10% slower Rhino to catch up. Ergo, since you endorse that ignorant claim, you haven't played Rhino much either, since otherwise you wouldn't be endorsing that claim.

Understand?

Only thing I see here pure speculation on your part.

 

I am afraid that explanation doesn't cut. 

 

It should be fairly simple. You endorse an ignorant claim. That claim being "Rhino isn't hampered by his slow speed". The only way anyone could actually make that 
Apparently I was. By a whole 0.05 speed. Of course, nobody actually cares about that because tailwind.

Same argument can be made for Rhino Charge and the Excalibur equivalent. Down-side is that both have to use powers to be mobile... Well not so much Zephyr though, she's supposed to be pretty agile with her flight theme. 

 

Coptering doesn't count though because it invalidates all speed stats. If you copter you could have 0.1 speed and it wouldn't matter because coptering depends on melee speed rather than sprint speed. If we're taking coptering as a valid answer to "Rhino is too slow", then there's no point in comparing sprint speed at all since everyone copters at the same speed. Rhino prime too fast? Copter to keep up with him. Same logic.

 

This is not about who can race a map faster, but why one frame should have everything when other frames must play with an advantage and a trade-off. Rhino Prime has no trade-off, he has everything a player could desire in one frame. 

Coptering counts as long as it keeps being removed and re-introduced. 

 

Other people will usually slot in a rush of their own. Which means that 10% slower speed hurts.
 
It's called establishing your ethos as a rhetor, you know?

Rhino Charge to keep up. 

Greek won't make your argument more compelling.

Edited March 9, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Monolake]

Just remove the vanguard bonus and buff normal Rhino sprint to at least .95.  And Frost too.  Being slowest frame sucks, but with vanguard a bunch of other frames become much slower and cant keep up with vanguards. Its all relative.

 

If you are rushing why do you use tanky Rhino at all. Its absurd that one frame is the best choice for every kind of mission.  

[bl4ckhunter]

i think that a general speed buff could be a good idea as 0.90 speed is borderline unplayable (as lokis will kill everything before you even see mobs) and most of the frames with 1.0 speed could use more (see volt/vauban/nyx) and mods shouldn't be forced on frames like rush is on frost.

if they fix the speeds then they can remove vanguard altogether from the game, becouse let's face it, witout stats no one is going to ever even think about using this helmet which by the way is the reason that it has remained untouched this long, right now it sells just for the stats  and unlike some other imbalances (see m-prime) the vanguard helmet doesn't harm anyone's playing experience, besides the only reason becouse some helmet still has stats it's becouse big part of them gives eye cancer and there would be a (reasonable) uproar of those who bought them with plat for the stats.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Only thing I see here pure speculation on your part.

 

I am afraid that explanation doesn't cut.

You're the dude who doesn't understand what ethos actually means. :(

 

Same argument can be made for Rhino Charge and the Excalibur equivalent. Down-side is that both have to use powers to be mobile... Well not so much Zephyr though, she's supposed to be pretty agile with her flight theme.

So basically, Rhino has to mount flow and streamline to actually keep up with other frames who don't via using charge? Heaven forbid he tries to use Fleeting Expertise.

 

This is not about who can race a map faster, but why one frame should have everything when other frames must play with an advantage and a trade-off. Rhino Prime has no trade-off, he has everything a player could desire in one frame.

No, this is about people whining about Rhino prime being fast and trying to justify that logic with nonsense about how Rhino shouldn't be fast even though slow Rhino is generally too slow to actually keep up with the rest of the team, leading to unfun situations for all involved.

I mean, I wouldn't care too much about Rhino Prime's speed being nerfed back to normal Rhino's speed. But you guys are arguing that Rhino should be slow in general, that he should lose the vanguard helm that is responsible for making Rhino into something other than a gimp.

Handwaving and whining about how every frame should have trade offs doesn't address this at all. If the trade off makes Rhino problematic to play, it's a bad trade off.

Of course, Rhino's trade off is that his defensive skill doesn't scale and neither do his damaging skills, which means he's reliant solely on the utility from stomp's stun and roar's damage boost (with roar's damage boost generally being inferior to Nova or Banshee's unless optimized via + power strength, in which case it's slightly above Nova's but more than five times weaker than Banshee's) for high level play.  

 

Coptering counts as long as it keeps being removed and re-introduced.

Coptering doesn't count because it invalidates all comparisons of speed. If you're including coptering in your calculations, then Rhino Prime's speed advantage over any other frame means nothing since it's irrelevant. That downside you whine Rhino should have? Coptering obliterates it.

So you really want to pretend coptering doesn't exist because otherwise it completely smashes your argument.

 

Rhino Charge to keep up.

Because having to spend 25 energy to keep up with other frames is fair. Herp derp.

 

Greek won't make your argument more compelling.

I'm not trying to make my argument more compelling to you. You asked a ridiculously obvious question like "hurr durr why do you establish your credibility as a Rhino player?" and I told you why. It's not my fault if you can't understand what arguments actually involve.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[LazyKnight]

Wiki lists Zephyrs speed as 1.15, equal to Ash. Is the Wiki wrong in this case? Genuine curiosity. 

Wiki can not be trusted on stats not listed in game. People edit them often and sometimes they were never right.

 

The ones before U9 all had data mined values on run speed.

Edited March 10, 2014 by LazyKnight

[TwiceDead]

You're the dude who doesn't understand what ethos actually means. :(

I forgot this was required for an online discussion, Greek! My bad. 

 

So basically, Rhino has to mount flow and streamline to actually keep up with other frames who don't via using charge? Heaven forbid he tries to use Fleeting Expertise.

Pretty much. Streamline is almost mandatory in any build you use anyway, so why not? Flow though? Not really necessary... That's my opinion though. To my experience, you don't even need that as I can keep up with other players on frost, and he doesn't get the luxury of fast-travel. 

 

No, this is about people whining about Rhino prime being fast and trying to justify that logic with nonsense about how Rhino shouldn't be fast even though slow Rhino is generally too slow to actually keep up with the rest of the team, leading to unfun situations for all involved.

I mean, I wouldn't care too much about Rhino Prime's speed being nerfed back to normal Rhino's speed. But you guys are arguing that Rhino should be slow in general, that he should lose the vanguard helm that is responsible for making Rhino into something other than a gimp.

Handwaving and whining about how every frame should have trade offs doesn't address this at all. If the trade off makes Rhino problematic to play, it's a bad trade off.

The thread started out because Rhino Prime has a base speed which is normal to the other frames. When you then add Vanguard helmet onto that you get a 25% speed boost, this makes him as fast as Loki whose one of his many characteristics is that he is fast and agile, unlike Rhino Loki doesn't have any scaling damage increasing/dealing skills, nor does he have another layer of shields which he can activate at will, nor does he have a combined nuke and utility ability. 

 

It removes one of the characteristics of Rhino entirely with the prime inclusion, that he is supposed to be a slow moving tanking powerhouse. 

 

Rhino's only trade-off is that he is slow at base, this is remedied with the Vanguard helmet. Saying that his trade-off is that his damage skills doesn't scale isn't a trade-off, because the same issue affects at least half of the amount of total frames, and his damaging skills have in-built utility as well, and this is more than what other frames can brag about. Saying that his defensive ability doesn't scale doesn't count either, because neither does Frosts Snowglobe,  Saryn's Molt, or Loki's Decoy. None of them scale, and they are all defensive abilities... Though Loki's decoy could be argued is more utility than defensive, as his real defensive is Invisibility. 

 

Comparing Nova is pointless, as she has an all-in-one button which isn't fair to any frame. As for Banshee, she has no proper defensive ability that allows her to take shots without worry without locking herself in place, and her strongest ability (sonar) actually takes a bit of effort.

 

 

So you really want to pretend coptering doesn't exist because otherwise it completely smashes your argument.

Coptering is a tool for travelling, it's around all the time. However you can't shoot when you're coptering, so using it while in the middle of battle unless you're trying to switch positions or are simply going on a tornado-murder spree, is probably not very convenient. Base-speed plays a key-role in some frames survival as long as they are not facing Grineer(because hit-scan), Rhino already doesn't have a problem when he's in the middle of a battle, giving him equal speed to Loki is just screwing with everyone. 

 

Because having to spend 25 energy to keep up with other frames is fair. Herp derp.

Doesn't stop Zephyr from using Tail-wind, Excal from using Slash-Dash, Loki from using the Decoy-Switch combo, Ash from using his Teleport or Nova from using her portal now does it? These frames use these abilities as soon as they see a long corridor if they're impatient, and they are naturally either of average speed, or just fast. Why shouldn't Rhino? Because he has a helmet that makes him fast? Saryn has one too, yet she get's no fast-travel abilities now does she? Rhino wouldn't suffer even if they nerfed Vanguard Helmet. 

 

I'm not trying to make my argument more compelling to you. You asked a ridiculously obvious question like "hurr durr why do you establish your credibility as a Rhino player?" and I told you why. It's not my fault if you can't understand what arguments actually involve.

I was not questioning your credibility as a Rhino player, I was wondering what you were trying to add to the discussion by telling me you are a Rhino player. Well I must say congratulations and I hope you have fun with that... Actually i'd be surprised if you weren't, as Rhino is probably among the most used frames in the game. I wonder why... 

 

Borderline what you're blatantly refusing to grasp is that balance can actually help making a more diverse and fun game, so I think we're done here. 

Edited March 10, 2014 by TwiceDead

[TwiceDead]

Wiki can not be trusted on stats not listed in game. People edit them often and sometimes they were never right.

 

The ones before U9 all had data mined values on run speed.

If I remember correctly DE made data-mining impossible afterwards... 

They need to start listing all the intricate data on every frame in the codex or something. 

[Phantasmo]

"Rhino needs Vanguard to keep up with the team".

W R O O O O O O N G

 

Warframe is UNBALANCED in every way it can be.

Rhino should be slow and the team should feel the need to wait for the tank to breach into the rooms.

But, other players don't need to wait for the tank because they can obliterate the enemy in nanoseconds using overpowered mods and ridiculous warframes and abilities.

 

And that IS the truth. A tank is not needed because of the sheer power some warframes have, and because of some weapons being way, way overpowered.

Nobody cares to wait for the tank because nobody needs him. And untalented developer Digital Extreme's only answer is: speed him up.

 

Warframe's balance is a disaster. Just check this out: play ten public games with random people. Write down how many Noobas, Rhinos, Lokis and Frost you see.

There are 14 warframes, primes not included.  Just check if results are consistent with the number of frames.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Phantasmo

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

Make Vanguard give +10 movement speed like the Hemlock helmet, or just change the upside. Or just remove the stats altogether. The +10 speed will be good enough, though. He's supposed to be slow.

[Phantasmo]

Make Vanguard give +10 movement speed like the Hemlock helmet, or just change the upside. Or just remove the stats altogether. The +10 speed will be good enough, though. He's supposed to be slow.

 

No, a tank should not get speed buffs.

His helmets should help you enphasize your build, either trade power strength/efficiency for resilience or viceversa.

Giving a speed buff to a slow bloke is like giving heroin to a junkie: he will take it 11/10 times because he needs it.

[DarkLizalfos]

what actually happens is your team rushes on ahead and leaves you in the dust without any enemies to kill. Your team, meanwhile, is waiting at extraction for your slow rhino to huff and puff his way there.

That happens to me with a maxed rush Loki. XD  You guys are super fast!

[SquirmyBurrito]

-snip-

 

First bit: How does reg. Rhino being slow excuse Rhino Prime being capable of tying Loki for fastest frame? Even Reg. Rhino (while wearing the Vanguard helm) is fourth fastest(ignoring Zephyr since I have no idea where she sits). Rhino. If DE buffed all frames to be at LEAST 1 for sprint speed I'd be mostly fine with it. BUT, only if they then removed Vanguard's speed buff.

The bit directed at me: Occasionally. I don't give a rat's tail whether you wish to 'call shenanigans' on it. I used to main Rhino. He was my second frame, and he is my second most played frame. I chose the Thrak helmet because I wanted a tankier Rhino and because I could keep up just fine. If I used my Charge build I didn't just keep up, I outpaced everyone. I also abused the physics in this game to launch myself around. 10-15%. That's similar to the sprint speed aura.

[LazyKnight]

First bit: How does reg. Rhino being slow excuse Rhino Prime being capable of tying Loki for fastest frame? Even Reg. Rhino (while wearing the Vanguard helm) is fourth fastest(ignoring Zephyr since I have no idea where she sits). Rhino. If DE buffed all frames to be at LEAST 1 for sprint speed I'd be mostly fine with it. BUT, only if they then removed Vanguard's speed buff.

 

One possible solution would be for DE to make vanguard helm only work with normal rhino. They did something similar with the phased skin not working with the Ankyros prime.

 

I wouldn't mind your suggestion of losing the vanguards helm if base speed of rhino was increased to 1

Edited March 10, 2014 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

One possible solution would be for DE  making vanguard helm only work with normal rhino. They did something similar with the phased skin not working with the Ankyros prime.

 

I wouldn't mind your suggestion of losing the vanguards helm if base speed of rhino was increased to 1

 

This would also work great. I thought they were supposed to be going through and getting rid of this thing anyway (the ability for primes to wear non-prime helmets).

[Revel72]

I'd support this.

Zephyr's base speed is faster than Loki's, isn't it? And of course tailwind lets her zoom around the map faster than zorencopters if she's properly modded.

Ash is faster than average.

Prior to Vanguard, this wasn't possible because of how slow he was.

Valkyr beats Rhino in all of that but CC immunity. Valkyr's health is higher, her armor is massively higher and she has an actual invincibility ability rather than 1200 health that will evaporate in two shots from a high level napalm.

Zephyr, in fact, beats Rhino in durability, having equal shields, more health, more mobility, and turbulence being vastly more effective in all levels of play.

So can a lot of frames, except they can do it better. Vauban, Excal, Nyx, just off the top of my head.

Roar does not increase armor. It increases damage output but isn't as effective at it as other damage buffs like M-Prime or Sonar.

 

Thou. Valkyr can not shoot while on Hysteria so that is one of the down sides even if it does cost 100 energy for about 55 seconds if invinsibility. You shouldn't mention Zephyr having that much stats you will get her soon nerfed... Turbulence does reflect back the shoots but it can not do nothing about the melee attacks [infestation] + Zephyr was designed for Mobility so why bringing her on top of Rhino? Excal's radial blind blindness is around 3 seconds and small area, Vauban nearly agreed but his lock downs has slightly lower range, Nyx equal with Rhino.

 

My mistake it was Warcry... Sonar only increases damage on landed shots on orange areas. M-Prime... So obvious that we do not even need to discuss about it just the fact that Nova is fragile is hell is enough said [unless you know how to approach... Ghost Shade Nova FTW]

 

Yet again I need to say this Zephyr was build around wind + mobility while Loki is builded for disrupt, stealth, aggression changing and [Trolling]

[Zarozian]

I think the solution lies in the change of Charge.

 

Replace it with Radial Blast.