Melee 2.0 - What Becomes Of The Mouse?

[shut]

So I'm one of those folks who are guilty of not watching entire Livestreams and only glancing at bits and pieces of it after it's over.

 

So, my understanding of the system thus far:

- You switch to Melee mode upon holding the Switch Weapons button.

- Combat in melee-mode uses the usual Melee button, but uses a timing-based combo system.

 

So if I'm correct in these assumptions (And please correct me if I'm not!), then what's going to become of the mouse buttons? Aren't they going to sort of go to waste?

Edited March 8, 2014 by SortaRandom

[LoopStricken]

Fire button will be a 'heavier' melee attack along with the quick usual melee attack button.

[shut]

Fire button will be a 'heavier' melee attack along with the quick usual melee attack button.

How's that going to work with the timing-based combo system?

[OriKlein]

I do not understand your question.

Are you expecting Melee 2.0 to do something different with the mouse buttons?

Because they don't have any special functionality right now, either.

[shut]

I do not understand your question.

Are you expecting Melee 2.0 to do something different with the mouse buttons?

Because they don't have any special functionality right now, either.

Right now, RMB aims and LMB shoots. Can't do either when you're not holding a gun.

[Ketec]

then lmb will be heavy attack and rmb will be alternative  melee attack Oo

[Spliffy_McGee]

The way I imagine it right now, when you're holding a gun and tap the melee button, you bash them with the gun.

When you have a melee equipped, LMB is either light/heavy attack if you tap/hold down the button, and RMB is block.

Just my opinion.

[Wurdyburd]

Since apparently nobody watches the livestreams:
-tapping E will still give you the quick melee slashes that we're used to. You can still use melee while using a gun, like we currently do, it'll just suck compared to actually wielding it
-while wielding it, left click is to begin a melee combo; right button is to block.
-blocking while moving doesn't take any stamina, unless you actually deflect something; deflecting must be from straight ahead and cannot be blocked from behind
-melee chains will be dependant on the speed at which you click; for example, a basic click, wait, click, wait, click click click; this will differ than the current system of just furiously mash the E button so that you can attack as quickly as possible
-mods will dictate what kind of chains you can do, additional melee effects such as increased warframe movement speed while wielding daggers, as well as the traditional increase in impact/pierce/slash, elemental mods, basic damage increase, etc

[OnnaJReverT]

as it stands right now, holding the weapon-switch button will change to melee-weapon

you can then use the normal melee-button (E atm) for light attacks and left mouse button for heavy attacks (or vice versa, not sure) and right mouse button for blocking (not sure there either, but it seems reasonable)

as for combos, you can chain these 2 moves together, spamming light attack will get you pretty much the standard combo as right now, you can alter that combo by putting in heavy strikes and by leaving a small delay between attacks

 

 

Edit: ninja'd, the guy above me explains it way better

Edited March 8, 2014 by OnnaJReverT

[Ketec]

in short... overly complex that requires you to  have

A) solo or rare, lagfree game

B) sacrifice damage just to make room for  combo boosting mods

C) You get tired of finger breaking  micromanagement of combos for  every enemy in a week and just use common melee attack spam.

D) The time you spend blocking, could have been better used to just 1 hit the targets with your gun + you are out of stamina

E) you die to the fire of 10 other grineer while you play around with 1 of them

[OnnaJReverT]

in short... overly complex that requires you to  have

A) solo or rare, lagfree game

B) sacrifice damage just to make room for  combo boosting mods

C) You get tired of finger breaking  micromanagement of combos for  every enemy in a week and just use common melee attack spam.

D) The time you spend blocking, could have been better used to just 1 hit the targets with your gun + you are out of stamina

E) you die to the fire of 10 other grineer while you play around with 1 of them

a) gonna have to see how it turns out, but unfortunately probably right

b) the combo-mods boost damage for the combos, also there is a combo-counter: the higher it goes the higher your dmg-output, potentially no limit

c) if they are well done, it will be fun to use combos and not tiring (though there are ppl, but you can always just use guns)

d) blocking only takes up stamina while something actually hits you, and it might be pretty handy to prevent knockdowns by heavies/shieldlancers and the like

e) as much of a problem as it is right now for melee

[Ketec]

But with any ranged targets, you are going to take alot of hits, which means alot of wasted stamina.

Damage counter is flawed - one aoe and all your targets are gone - or they lagged too far/run away

IF you need to use well timed combos and remember the cycle, keys, time for  each enemy over and over again - it does get tiring. Try going to a 60 min or more survival like this where if you get too close to anything and wont wipe them asap, you die.

 

 

I don't see combos as a real melee fix, just a bonus. It doesn't fix any of the core melee issues - you need to get close and survive, kill them fast at diff distances, Cant target weakspots (especially bosses), and in no way can they compare to  weapons that can do 20k+/s without being stuck in combo animation.

[WrothBog]

But with any ranged targets, you are going to take alot of hits, which means alot of wasted stamina.

Damage counter is flawed - one aoe and all your targets are gone - or they lagged too far/run away

IF you need to use well timed combos and remember the cycle, keys, time for  each enemy over and over again - it does get tiring. Try going to a 60 min or more survival like this where if you get too close to anything and wont wipe them asap, you die.

 

 

I don't see combos as a real melee fix, just a bonus. It doesn't fix any of the core melee issues - you need to get close and survive, kill them fast at diff distances, Cant target weakspots (especially bosses), and in no way can they compare to  weapons that can do 20k+/s without being stuck in combo animation.

kittag, get it, wreck everything. who needs guns.

 

that being said it was more fun when it used polearm animations.

[shut]

Since apparently nobody watches the livestreams:

-tapping E will still give you the quick melee slashes that we're used to. You can still use melee while using a gun, like we currently do, it'll just suck compared to actually wielding it

-while wielding it, left click is to begin a melee combo; right button is to block.

-blocking while moving doesn't take any stamina, unless you actually deflect something; deflecting must be from straight ahead and cannot be blocked from behind

-melee chains will be dependant on the speed at which you click; for example, a basic click, wait, click, wait, click click click; this will differ than the current system of just furiously mash the E button so that you can attack as quickly as possible

-mods will dictate what kind of chains you can do, additional melee effects such as increased warframe movement speed while wielding daggers, as well as the traditional increase in impact/pierce/slash, elemental mods, basic damage increase, etc

Ah, thanks for the info!

So when you're in Melee Mode, it's the LMB, rather than the melee button, that does basic attacks? (And there's only one "attack" button, right?)

[HillsAndTheSea]

Ah, thanks for the info!

So when you're in Melee Mode, it's the LMB, rather than the melee button, that does basic attacks? (And there's only one "attack" button, right?)

 

-tapping E will still give you the quick melee slashes that we're used to. You can still use melee while using a gun, like we currently do 

-left click is to begin a melee combo; 

Edited March 8, 2014 by HillsAndTheSea

[shut]

 

I think I read somewhere that mistiming a combo would revert the attack chain back to the basic melee combos that we have right now as long as you keep mashing the attack button, which led me to believe that the "Combo" and "Basic Melee Attack" buttons are the same thing when in Melee Mode (i.e. mashing the Combo button without a care for timing will give you our basic melee attacks that we currently have).

I interpreted Wurdy's post as "Tapping E will still give you the quick melee slashes when not in Melee Mode, as usual" instead of "Tapping E will give you quick melee slashes while in Melee Mode, but LMB does something entirely different while in that mode". If someone could clear this up for me, that'd be wonderful. xD

Edited March 8, 2014 by SortaRandom

[r0ckwolf]

The Right MOuse button while holding your mellee weapon will let u block and open the parry possibility, the left will do an alterante attack pattern (refered to as "heavier" in the live stream.) It will also have a timing combo tree, meaning a combo pause moment, which will open another set of attack animations! all these alternate combo endings can then.... here it comes... altered by mods! WTF?!?! RIGHT!!!!

 

Meaning you can completely customize your attack patterns to your playstyle. Example: More AoE focuse vs Single Target.

 

All this was said at the Livestream. It´s my only source!^^

[VScipii26]

The problem with them being mod based is that they will take up space. We're already hurting for mod space, so what I'm hoping for is two things:
 

The combo mods will be slotted like auras.

and

Vindictus-type combos.

[shut]

So one thing that I'm still not clear about-- are "E" and "LMB" going to have the same effect in melee mode? 

[FlanShark]

The problem with them being mod based is that they will take up space. We're already hurting for mod space, so what I'm hoping for is two things:

 

The combo mods will be slotted like auras.

and

Vindictus-type combos.

The response to this (in livestream 23) was that some of the new mods will 'replace' mods like pressure point by having that basic, essential damage bonus baked in.

Of course, unless they make it so that only corrupted mods can stack with other mods, this is an incoherent solution, since there'll be a clear optimum involving stacking the dull mods with the new ones. D:

[OnnaJReverT]

So one thing that I'm still not clear about-- are "E" and "LMB" going to have the same effect in melee mode? 

no, E will be standard attacks while LMB will be alternate/heavy attacks

you can combo these together for different attackpatterns

[HillsAndTheSea]

So one thing that I'm still not clear about-- are "E" and "LMB" going to have the same effect in melee mode? 

 

no

[shut]

no, E will be standard attacks while LMB will be alternate/heavy attacks

you can combo these together for different attackpatterns

Then what happens with the timing-based combo system? Using both a normal-smash combo system and a timing combo system at the same time sounds incredibly inefficient and silly.

[Wurdyburd]

But with any ranged targets, you are going to take alot of hits, which means alot of wasted stamina.

Damage counter is flawed - one aoe and all your targets are gone - or they lagged too far/run away

IF you need to use well timed combos and remember the cycle, keys, time for  each enemy over and over again - it does get tiring. Try going to a 60 min or more survival like this where if you get too close to anything and wont wipe them asap, you die.

 

 

I don't see combos as a real melee fix, just a bonus. It doesn't fix any of the core melee issues - you need to get close and survive, kill them fast at diff distances, Cant target weakspots (especially bosses), and in no way can they compare to  weapons that can do 20k+/s without being stuck in combo animation.

Part of the intent to melee is that it ISN'T a point-and-click shooter. It's intended to be a different attack mode altogether, which Melee 2.0 will bring. Blocking will deflect ammo, as I said, which will mean decreased or negated damage taken from ranged sources. If you use a Reflection mod, you can actually damage your attacks by deflecting their bullets back at them for 94% damage, though how this will change in 2.0 is unknown. Most likely, one of the additional warframe bonuses gained by wielding a melee weapon [for example, increased movement speed while wielding daggers] will probably be stamina through the roof, or greatly increased stamina regen. Also, as you melee, a counter records your hits, which will begin to increase your melee damage [and perhaps speed]; this counter has a slow cooldown, so you can rush in to attack, retreat, and then come back again without losing your buff.

In addition to the attacking mechanics however, will be countering, to damage and/or stun attackers that try to melee you, which ranged units already do if you get close enough to them. On top of this, bosses will have melee damage opportunities, so bosses like Sargus Ruk, with his blue weak spots, will be able to be slain while using melee rather than needing to resort to gunplay. Lephantis will also be melee-prone, which is something that greatly intrigues me.

The reason DE is holding back Melee 2.0 for so long is that they're working to make it a truly useful part of the game. You should be able to play melee exclusively if you want to, and they're working to try and reflect that.

 

 

I think I read somewhere that mistiming a combo would revert the attack chain back to the basic melee combos that we have right now as long as you keep mashing the attack button, which led me to believe that the "Combo" and "Basic Melee Attack" buttons are the same thing when in Melee Mode (i.e. mashing the Combo button without a care for timing will give you our basic melee attacks that we currently have).

I interpreted Wurdy's post as "Tapping E will still give you the quick melee slashes when not in Melee Mode, as usual" instead of "Tapping E will give you quick melee slashes while in Melee Mode, but LMB does something entirely different while in that mode". If someone could clear this up for me, that'd be wonderful. xD

 

 

Apologies, I had poor word choice and order. You can use E or clicking while in melee state, though I believe that only the clicking will allow you to do the more damaging combos. I may be mistaken, and clicking could be paired with E for combos, but the dev stream was not crystal on that.

 

The problem with them being mod based is that they will take up space. We're already hurting for mod space, so what I'm hoping for is two things:

 

The combo mods will be slotted like auras.

and

Vindictus-type combos.

 

Melee mods are some of the worst designed in the game at the moment though. Where guns have choices like ammo mutation, max ammo, max clip size, passthrough, multishot, noise reduction [as useless as it is], Charged Chamber, and a wealth of double-mods like Wildfire, Hammer Shot, and all the gun-specific corrupted mods, melee mods consist of things like Reach, Second Wind, Finishing Touch, and Melee Channel. I don't count the glaive mods because they're specific to a single weapon and it's prime variant.

Mod-wise, there's EXTREMELY little you can do with melee weapons.

[OnnaJReverT]

Then what happens with the timing-based combo system? Using both a normal-smash combo system and a timing combo system at the same time sounds incredibly inefficient and silly.

you can alternate between two different strikes, light/normal (E) and heavy/alternate (LMB)

say you do L(ight) - L - H(eavy) - L - H you get a certain combo

the timing comes in terms of the speed of your combo

clicking L - L - small pause - H - L - small pause - H will deliver a different combo

 

also, not trying to sound offensive, but this is at least the third explanation of this in this thread, you may wanna read more carefully

Edited March 9, 2014 by OnnaJReverT