Azamagon's Warframe Rebalancing - Nekros

[Azamagon]

This is the seventh thread from my new series of Warframe rebalancing threads. This time it's gonna be about Nekros. I have already done rebalancing for each Warframe (wether it is up to date or still in my head :P), most of it written down in here: https://forums.warfr...second-edition/ (Note: That thread got archived, so I can no longer edit it)

 

However, as huge and thorough threads like that often gets ignored, I thought of posting each one individually so they (hopefully) get seen. Nekros need some help, but not all too much.

Little extra note: Thinking of these ideas was probably one of the more fun "rebalancing" thinking moments I've had so far! Nekros has SO much potential! (Note: No, he's not my favourite frame, I actually don't really favor ANY frame, which I hope comes through with these rebalances, trying to show my lack of biasm towards specific Warframes. I just want fun and balance!)

 

Stats:

His stats are a little bit on the lower end I guess (about on par with Excalibur), but considering this revamp, I don't think he needs higher stats. If anything would be done though, maybe his energy could be increased to a base of 125 (from 100) or something like that.

 

Overall theme:

Necromancer. So obviously, he should have a theme based on puppetmastery of dead ones, along with other things related to death and evil, such as fear. Overall, he definitely has that theme, although I think the "puppetmaster of the dead"-theme could be emphasized a tad more...

 

Abilities:

His abilities certainly have the "death and fear" theme written all over them. However, each of the abilities have their problems. Soul Punch is way too generic and limited in use. Terrify has a bit too many restrictions on it, otherwise a somewhat decent skill. Desecrate is desecrate, not having much use until AFTER combats (unless you wanna waste energy) and is far too spam-inviting. Shadows of the Dead has lots of QoL-issues, but is otherwise a good skill.

EDIT: So, what have I done? I have given him a stronger emphasis as a "puppetmaster of the dead" and given him more "aura"-like skills. Auras + Minions are always a greatly synergizing concept...

 

- Soul Punch -

- Soul Steal -

- Necrosis - (Archwizard's version mixed in with mine! :))

Sorry, I felt I had to change them name for the sake of its new additions:

* Now castable while moving, without stopping your movement (no brief "halt"), nor without interrupting your reload.

* When you attack a target with this ability, it has 2 main effects - A blast and a debuff. (Note: The old "projectile" thing is removed entirely)

1) Blast: Ragdolls your target, while enemies within a 1,5/2/2,5/3 meter aoe of the main target are all staggered away from the main target.

2) Debuff: It also debuff on the main target with an infectious DoT for 18/20/22/24 seconds, dealing 5/10/15/20 Viral Damage per second to it. If the target dies while the debuff is still on the target, it will INSTANTLY create a Shadowcopy of itself, spawning on top of its corpse (a Shadowminion for you, just like one of those from Shadows of the Dead!) It will live for up to 10/12/15/20 seconds. (Viral damage is imo very fitting as it deals more damage to Flesh, while less so towards Robotics and Infested)

* As a Shadow minion, the unit's damage is increased by 15/25/30/50% and it suffers 5/10/15/20% less damage taken than its previous living counterpart.

* There is no limit to how many Shadows can be summoned from this ability at once. They all have individiual time limits anyway.

* The Shadow do not obstruct you or your allies, neither for your movement nor your bullets etc!

* The Shadow has a certain "passiveness leesh" radius, of 25 meters or so (not affected by mods, its a static thing). If the Shadow is fighting something, it will do so until the Shadow or the enemy target dies, even if it is outside the leesh radius. However, if the Shadow is not fighting any enemy, then it will never stray away from you beyond this leesh radius. If it finds an enemy along the way of trying to catch up with you, it will prioritize attacking the enemy first.

* Idea - Setting up a waypoint could perhaps cause the Shadow to go to that spot / attack the marked enemy! Is this a good idea?

Power Strength - Increases DoT damage as well as the minion damagebonus and less-damage-taken bonus (New!)
Power Range - Increases castrange and stagger aoe (New for stagger aoe)
Power Duration - Increases debuff duration and minion duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, several units can be debuffed at once (which also means there is no limit to how many minions you can spawn with this ability at once!)

 

Note: Getting a minion like this means you can use a target as a Shadow minion TWICE! First as a Necrosis one, then as a summon from SotD! That also means: Double the use for Desecrate! :D

 

- Terrify -

* On top of its instant fearing ability it now also has a debuffing aura! Let's check out both the fear and the aura:

 

The fear:

The fearing AoE-effect only occurs upon the initial cast, just like now. However, the fear is a little different now: When feared, the affected targets will always first be stunned (in a cowering animation) for 1/2/3/4 seconds. Following that, the targets will then run away like normal until the Terrify duration runs out. A maximum of 6/8/10/12 enemies can be feared per Terrify cast.

 

The debuff aura:

Any enemy (no target cap!) that is affected by Nekros' lingering aura will also suffer 8/12/16/20% more damage taken from all sources! If an enemy leaves the aura, they still have this weakened debuff on them for another 3 seconds after (unless it exceeds the remaining aura duration). Reentering the aura makes them weakened again, of course. However, those limitted targets that are feared will always be weakened for the duration of Terrify, no matter if they remain in the aura or not!

Note that there is no limit to how many targets that can be weakened at once!

 

* Bosses are immune to the fear-effects, but not to the weakening effect!

* The fear+aura lasts for 9/12/15/18 seconds and both have a radius of 6/8/10/12 meters.

* Terrify can be recast in the midst of its duration! This is important, due to allowing it to regain its fear-target-cap. However, doing so (maybe?) releases the previously feared targets from their previous fear. If they get caught in the newly cast Terrify's aura though, they are afflicted by fear once again.

* Works well as a form of preemptively cast shield of sorts, in particular for following up with casting SotD!

* Visually, Nekros could have some form of creepy distortion-effect on him while Terrify is active (to fit his spooky weakening aura!)

 

Power Strength - Increases fear-target limit and the aura's weakening debuff potency (New!)
Power Range - Increases fear and aura radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases fear and aura duration as well as the fear's initial cower-duration (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the weakening aura + fearing new enemies. However, for balancing purposes, the previously feared targets might need to be released from their previous Terrify-fear before the new fear is cast. I dunno if that is necessary though, as there is already a target cap on the amount of targets that can be feared at once (as opposed to Nyx's chaos, which has no target limit!)

 

- Desecrate -

Similar to Terrify, Desecrate now also functions like an aura. Not only helping with additional loot, this aura now does a whole bunch of other things as well:

* First of all, Desecrate's aura duration is 8/10/12/15 seconds and has a radius of 8/12/16/20 meters.

* Visually, this aura could look like Nekros having a bunch of nanite bugs/insects swarming around him

* The aura has many effects:

1) Any Shadowminion of yours (no matter wether a Necrosis or a SotD one) that remain in this aura are constantly healed, being healed 1,5 / 2 / 2,5 / 3% of their max health every second.

2) Any enemy that remains within this aura becomes slightly crippled by the swarming bugs, reducing their movement speed (NOT attackspeed) by 5/8/11/15%

3) If a unit dies within the aura (or rather, if a corpse touches the aura. Aura or corpse existing first, doesn't matter) its corpse will be ferociously picked apart by the nanite bugs (no delay, it happens instantly) causing the corpse to drop extra loot and/or health orbs, just like Desecrate's current effect right now.

4) However, only the "good parts" of the picked apart corpses might turn into loot/orbs, but the leftover "bad parts" are always torn apart very violently, causing the corpse to EXPLODE (MWAHAHA!), dealing 25/50/75/100 Blast damage to all enemies caught by the explosion, with an explosion radius of 4,5 / 5 / 5,5 / 6 meters.

Note: The corpse-explosion is a guaranteed effect on any corpse, even if no loot/orb is spawned from it.

Power Strength - Increases minion-healing-effect, enemy slowdown and corpse explosion damage (New!)
Power Range - Increases aura and corpse-explosion radius (New!)
Power Duration - Increases aura duration (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the aura buff

 

- Shadows of the Dead -

Functions pretty much the same like now, with some minor tweaks:

* The Shadow minions have their damage increased by 15/25/30/50% and suffers 5/10/15/20% less damage taken than their previous living counterparts.

* For each kill Nekros has done which is eligible as a SotD summon, he spawns a little particle around him, indicating you got a unit to summon now. More particles will be floating around him for more enemies he has killed, of course.

Question: Where should these particles be? My vote goes to them floating behind him, along his shoulders/upper back, so you can easily gauge how many units you have "stored".

EDIT: LukeAura suggested that the particles could be behind / orbitting the rings he has on his legs and arms, which I think sounds like a great placement idea!

* Summoning units removes as many particles as the amount of units you summon, obviously

* Shadows do not obstruct you or your allies, neither for your movement nor your bullets etc!

* The Shadows have a certain "passiveness leesh" radius, of 25 meters or so (not affected by mods, its a static thing). If a Shadow is fighting something, it will do so until the Shadow or the enemy target dies, even if they are outside the leesh radius. However, if the Shadows are not fighting any enemy, then they will never stray away from you beyond this leesh radius. If they find an enemy along the way of trying to catch up with you, they will prioritize attacking the enemy first.

* Idea - Setting up a waypoint could perhaps cause the Shadows to go to that spot / attack the marked enemy! Is this a good idea?

Power Strength - Increases the minions' damagebonus and less-damage-taken bonus (New!)

Power Range - Increases amount of minions summoned at once (New, used to be affected by Power Strength before)
Power Duration - Increases minions duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, summoning more Shadows, all at once!

 

First of all, think about all the disgustingly good synergies this would provide, just for his own kit:

* Necrosis and SotD allows you to summon a plethora of minions on top of Necrosis providing CC, greatly serving as distractions for you and your team

* Desecrate sustains your minions as well as causes corpses to explode (including the minions themselves when they die!)

* All this while Terrify can protect you further with its fear, as well as allows your minions to attack enemies with less fear of retaliation AND any feared enemy or enemy close to Nekros suffer more damage done by your minions, due to the weakening aura-addition on Terrify!

 

So, what can be said about scalability for Nekros' abilities now? Let's see:

Necrosis - Ragdoll/stagger and a minion-summon based on enemy levels scale tremendously well!

Terrify - Crowd control topped with a little damage-amplifier scale nicely!

Desecrate - Slowing enemy movement, providing extra loot/ammo/health orbs, while also healing your minions all serves as nice little scaling utilities!

Shadows of the Dead - Minion-summons, based on enemy levels, obviously scale very well!

 

What are your thoughts and opinions of these ideas? :)

 

All my Warframe rebalancing threads:

1)

Loki

2) Excalibur

3) Frost

4) Ember

5) Saryn

6) Ash

7) Nekros

8) Valkyr

Edited May 17, 2014 by Azamagon

[immolator1001]

I'd say remove the corpse explosions and movement debuff from desecrate and this would make Nekros much more viable for more than defense and survival.

[Pavelord]

Hi, Azamagon

 

Soul Steal: i think maybe your are piling too many things in this one, it does viral, aoe, debuff, ragdolls, create a minions and buffs it, balance issues would be great in comparison with other frames. Nekros being a nanobot frame with a necromancer theme, i think it fits the impact, this is what i imagine it happens, soul punch throw a mass of nanobots that clash on target (i don´t think he really is punching the soul out of them), get inside it and traspass it violently, getting out with residual heat energy or something continuing moving forward, further smashing foes. The waypoint idea i think it is good, i also had it and submited it to the "index of little things", so i´m crossing my fingers on this one.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/152835-index-of-little-things-small-suggestions-done-by-the-community/?view=findpost&p=1986472

 

Terrify: i like this one

 

Desecrate: this one suffers a bit like the first, you put many things, a little bit like the one in diablo with the corpse explosion

 

Shadows of the dead: you made nice adjustements on this one, i do think resurrected minions should be buff a bit, i like the idea of the particles it was suggested some time ago, particularly i would like them to be will-o´wisp like fires behind nekros shoulders.

[LukeAura]

I see a clear idea in here of Nekros being an Aura based frame. Which works well for an offensive-support frame as he can take those buffs and debuffs wherever they need to be. 

The Soul Steal adjustment is definitely nice. But as Pavelord said it is a little bit too much for the cost. I feel just removing the AoE damage, but letting it retain a small stagger zone would be enough to help keep it focused. 

Terrify becoming a Nekros aura is interesting. I like the fact that the weakening debuff becomes non target limited and follows him for the duration. Offensive-Support, and it fits Nekros perfectly. I'm not sure if it becoming an aura helps the Fear portion of it all that much as you're likely not using it unless you're overwhelmed by enemies, but I think it's a fair balance for the offensive benefit.  

 I think the double healing for minions is a little much for desecrate. Better to pick one or the other. Gradual passive Aura, or corpse explosion heal. The movement debuff can stay though as since it doesn't effect firing speed enemies are just becoming easier targets, but not weaker targets which suits him fine. 

The hard cap for soul storage is currently at 20. Which means that if you let them float around him he'll have up to twenty souls at a time. Potentially becoming annoying for people. Maybe keeping 3 in each of his leg rings and one each on his arm ones? So they're a little more out of the way, but still countable. 
 

[Azamagon]

Oh, nice! Some great replies!

I'd say remove the corpse explosions and movement debuff from desecrate and this would make Nekros much more viable for more than defense and survival.

But by removing those things, he wouldn't have much incombat useage of Desecrate :/

 

@Both Pavelord and LukeAura:

Yeah, I might have overdone what all the abilities do (mainly Soul Steal and Desecrate), but it is better to start of with that, so that you can trim it down. It's always easier to remove of what you have, than to add stuff that you don't have ;)

 

@Pavelord, replies underlined and bolded inside the quote:

Hi, Azamagon

 

Soul Steal: i think maybe your are piling too many things in this one, it does viral, aoe, debuff, ragdolls, create a minions and buffs it, balance issues would be great in comparison with other frames. Nekros being a nanobot frame with a necromancer theme, i think it fits the impact, this is what i imagine it happens, soul punch throw a mass of nanobots that clash on target (i don´t think he really is punching the soul out of them), get inside it and traspass it violently, getting out with residual heat energy or something continuing moving forward, further smashing foes. The waypoint idea i think it is good, i also had it and submited it to the "index of little things", so i´m crossing my fingers on this one.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/152835-index-of-little-things-small-suggestions-done-by-the-community/?view=findpost&p=1986472

 

Yeah, like I said, definitely overshot it so I can remove and tweak it downwards after :)

Just some clarifications:

Viral - That's the damagetype only, it can't proc!

AoE - Yeah, that's probably too much. As Luke said, remove the damage on the aoe, but keep the stagger, and it will probably be better

Debuff - Doesn't do anything until the target dies, thus creating the minion after. The buff on it is just to give the player a bit of an advantage and to make sure Power Strength matters.

Impact / Nanobot stuff - Yeah, that makes sense to you and me maybe, but it doesn't seem intuitive to others I guess. Viral would then make a bit more sense. It would also make sense in that you infest the target with the nanobots (which is how you can replicate it as a Shadow in the first place), and infest = viral imo :)

Waypoint - Hehe, then I guess you agreed ;)

 

Terrify: i like this one

Cool, thanks ^^

 

Desecrate: this one suffers a bit like the first, you put many things, a little bit like the one in diablo with the corpse explosion

Yeah, maybe it was a bit too much. But all the bonuses are kinda small, so I'd maybe just remove one of the effects.

 

Shadows of the dead: you made nice adjustements on this one, i do think resurrected minions should be buff a bit, i like the idea of the particles it was suggested some time ago, particularly i would like them to be will-o´wisp like fires behind nekros shoulders.

Glad you like the adjustments :)

Tiny will-o-wisps behind nekros shoulders, yeah that's a good way to describe how I imagined it! :)

 

@Lukeaura, replies underlined and bolded inside the quote:

I see a clear idea in here of Nekros being an Aura based frame. Which works well for an offensive-support frame as he can take those buffs and debuffs wherever they need to be. 

Yup, a "dark presence" kind of dude. Auras just fit so well when you have minions around you, so they can benefit from the buffs and debuffs too. It's kind of a basic design really :D

The Soul Steal adjustment is definitely nice. But as Pavelord said it is a little bit too much for the cost. I feel just removing the AoE damage, but letting it retain a small stagger zone would be enough to help keep it focused. 

Sounds like a perfect balance! I'll edit that for sure! :)

Terrify becoming a Nekros aura is interesting. I like the fact that the weakening debuff becomes non target limited and follows him for the duration. Offensive-Support, and it fits Nekros perfectly. I'm not sure if it becoming an aura helps the Fear portion of it all that much as you're likely not using it unless you're overwhelmed by enemies, but I think it's a fair balance for the offensive benefit.  

Glad you like it! :) Not much more to say really, I agreed with your observations :)

 I think the double healing for minions is a little much for desecrate. Better to pick one or the other. Gradual passive Aura, or corpse explosion heal. The movement debuff can stay though as since it doesn't effect firing speed enemies are just becoming easier targets, but not weaker targets which suits him fine. 

Actually, I was jumping back and forth of which one to pick of the heals, deciding to keep both so people would help me out choosing which to pick, in case they were too much xDDD I guess the gradual passive aura is better (more reliable), even though I also like the idea of Nekros thriving in the midst of dieing enemies, but I think the offensive corpse explosion would sell that point home well enough :)

Yup, the slow is just there to make them make them easier targets. keep the enemies closer to one another for the sake of the corpse-explosions and for the potential panic-feared targets from Terrify to not stray away too far too fast.

The hard cap for soul storage is currently at 20. Which means that if you let them float around him he'll have up to twenty souls at a time. Potentially becoming annoying for people. Maybe keeping 3 in each of his leg rings and one each on his arm ones? So they're a little more out of the way, but still countable. 
That's a good alternative for sure! I was thinking that the particles would be quite small though, even smaller than Nova's Null Stars, exactly for the sake of not obstructing your view too much. But a good suggestion for sure, I'll add it as an alternative! :)

Thank you so much for the feedback guys!

 

EDIT: Also added a new question on Soul Steal - Should the debuff placed on the living target do some kind of ACTUAL debuff, other than just mark it to become a Shadow minion upon death?

Edited March 9, 2014 by Azamagon

[Pavelord]

more food for tought

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/111658-looking-at-nekros/

[Azamagon]

more food for tought

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/111658-looking-at-nekros/

Thanks for the link, I've even read it before :) Not all too much to my liking though, as some of those things are HUGE rehauls. It's better to keep rehauls to a minimum.

 

Also, added a simple QoL on Soul Steal - The ability to cast it while moving, without making you halt nor interruping your reloading!

[LukeAura]

I think with the buffs to shadow minions, the ragdoll on that target, and the improved reliability of the stagger AOE as opposed to its current iteration, no debuff is really needed on Soul Steal. 

 

[Azamagon]

I think with the buffs to shadow minions, the ragdoll on that target, and the improved reliability of the stagger AOE as opposed to its current iteration, no debuff is really needed on Soul Steal. 

 

Alrightie, I'll keep things as they are now then :)

[-Scourge]

you've got some nice ideas there. but like the others said, some have too many effects for the cost.

 

also check out my thread about a nekros rework

name: Scourge of the living (nekros overhaul)