Arunafeltz Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Actually the Prime MUST be waay better then the regular Warframes like more shield,HP, faster more armor etc... it's not our problem when they invested 6-7 Formas on regular stuff. Mmhmm. How dare people invest effort and materials into something they enjoy using then whine when a straight upgrade to it is introduced to lure them back into the Void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verazix Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 As to Rhino's speed, normal is 0.9, prime is 1.0, still not even close to Loki's 1.25 speed. Rhino has the Vanguard helmet which gives a whopping 25% speed bonus. 1*1.25=1.25. Even with normal Rhino .9*1.25=1.125 making Rhino far from one of the slowest frames in game. I've been trying to stay out of this argument, because even if I disagree with it, DE will do what DE always does, which means making off the wall changes that come right out of left field, and players will always defend the changes if they find them personally beneficial. Just remember, from a design standpoint that everything should come at a cost. Rhino has one of the best overall tanking stat spreads (actually the exact same stats as Frost), and is now as mobile as Excalibur. This means he no longer has a single "downside." And no, -5% power strength is nothing and is completely negligible in the grand scheme of things, 25% movement speed is far more than just "worth it." With the massive power efficiency and energy regen consumables that are obtainable, a 300 size power pool is also no longer a true detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath_Of_Chrysalis Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 The problem is that it's only one prime that has this bonus and that the prime in question is Rhino and that it makes Rhino as fast as Loki. Nope. Rhino Prime is slower than Nova, who is slower than Loki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 i seriously doubt hes as fast as loki. Also mag prime has faster shield regen. They're talking about Rhino Prime + Vanguard. hes got 1.0 speed and loki has 1.25 so Im guessing hes talking about vanguard plus the 1.0 speed but I think with it, it only adds to 1.20 That makes zero sense. The Helmet claims +25%, 25% of 1 isn't .2 that would be stupid it just minor changes they are making sprint speed almost effects nothing if anything his armor will increase or a 100 shield or health No more than Rhino prime being capable of achieving the same sprint speed as Loki despite having higher health, shield, and armor values. Wiki has them both listed at 0.9 sprint speed. As to Rhino's speed, normal is 0.9, prime is 1.0, still not even close to Loki's 1.25 speed. If any prime needs complaining about it is Ember Prime's lack of an extra polarity slot. Now that is a blatant error on DE's part. They're talking about Rhino Prime+Vanguard Helmet which gives a +25% speed boost. Which should put him at 1.25 AKA Loki's speed. Loki has low health and shields but has/had the highest sprint speed (sans abilities) in the game. Now Rhino Prime (a frame with higher health, shields, and armor) can achieve the the same sprint speed. DE bumping Rhino prime up to 1.0 would have been perfectly fine if they didn't allow users to equip the Vanguard helmet on their Rhino Primes. Nope. Rhino Prime is slower than Nova, who is slower than Loki. They're talking about Rhino Prime+Vanguard helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonaii Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Mmhmm. How dare people invest effort and materials into something they enjoy using then whine when a straight upgrade to it is introduced to lure them back into the Void. Hmm how should I respond to this... hmmm I think I know. THEY choose if they want to grind to get a better frame or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KijiMuna Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 You know what this is going to look like to DE? The players asked for improved Primes, and they got it. Now the players want speed-Rhino broken, but no other builds. Only part that doesn't nerf everyone's Rush is Vanguard helm. What a perfect opportunity to start removing stats from old helmets. Just as planned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arunafeltz Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 What a perfect opportunity to start removing stats from old helmets. Just as planned If a solution to horribly-statted alternate helmets can finally be implemented, I can forever hold my peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taeriyn Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In another thread, someone posted a speed comparison video that shows Rhino Prime is both faster than original recipe Rhino, and tied with Loki when using the vanguard helmet. https://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=ZFDRI2PJpug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekker Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Rhino is already one of the most powerful Warframes. Giving the Prime version a speed buff that makes him just as fast as Loki if he has the Vanguard helmet is absolutely unasked for and just kills the balancing even further. Either they keep the Prime buff, get rid of the helmet stats completely (as they were apparently planning to do anyways) and give other Prime warframes a comparable buff as well to even it out, or, they get rid of that unnecessary Prime buff and to keep up the balancing. Don't get me wrong. I don't think any warframe should have such differences in movement stats. Its a team based game where players are divided by rusher and non rushers and the game doesn't even give us the means to keep up with everyone else. That being said. I am not against minor warframe prime buffs but if then everyone should get one. Right now Rhino is by far the most powerful warframe of those that have a prime version. Giving him a considerable buff is not just unreasonable but a kick in the nuts for any player that wants Frost to be a decent rival for Rhino. Unfortunately right now Frost is inferrior in every way to Rhini... Edited March 11, 2014 by Gekker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraiya.Gier Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Rhino is already one of the most powerful Warframes. Giving the Prime version a speed buff that makes him just as fast as Loki if he has the Vanguard helmet is absolutely unasked for and just kills the balancing even further. Either they keep the Prime buff, get rid of the helmet stats completely (as they were apparently planning to do anyways) and give other Prime warframes a comparable buff as well to even it out, or, they get rid of that unnecessary Prime buff and to keep up the balancing. Don't get me wrong. I don't think any warframe should have such differences in movement stats. Its a team based game where players are divided by rusher and non rushers and the game doesn't even give us the means to keep up with everyone else. That being said. I am not against minor warframe prime buffs but if then everyone should get one. Right now Rhino is by far the most powerful warframe of those that have a prime version. Giving him a considerable buff is not just unreasonable but a kick in the nuts for any player that wants Frost to be a decent rival for Rhino. Unfortunately right now Frost is inferrior in every way to Rhini... Except Frost can create a defensive bubble for not only himself, but for allies and a defense target. What does Rhino protect other than himself? Frost has more Utility, albeit a small one in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraiya.Gier Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In a thread I made earlier, I argued that Primes should be better than their other version. Why? Because they're Primes, Orokin Enhanced items. "Enheanced" meaning better. Instead of having something near useless. No useless gold trim that makes it "Prime". Instead, a stat boost, or perhaps something that outright removes or dampens what drawback that frame/weapon had. Then people cried power creep and balance making it sound like they wanted all weapons and frames to be close in stats so only the functionality of the weapon mattered and not the extra oompf it may or may not have. Which just sounds to me like "I want my Mk1 Braton to be as viable as a Soma!" Yeah no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekker Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Except Frost can create a defensive bubble for not only himself, but for allies and a defense target. What does Rhino protect other than himself? Frost has more Utility, albeit a small one in that regard. DId you forgot his ultimate's CC and his 30% damage buff? Frost's snowglobe has a scaling issure right now. Its ineffective on high level defense and Frost's Freeze effects is not what it should be. Frost deals cold damage which is weak. Frost is slower. Frost Prime doesn't have a buff like Rhino Prime. The list goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verazix Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) DId you forgot his ultimate's CC and his 30% damage buff? Roar is 50% base, and scales with power strength. Assuming 124% power strength (max focus/blind rage with Vanguard) that means 112% bonus damage on everything (which scales with other damage bonuses like Molecular Prime/Sonar/Accelerant). Edited March 11, 2014 by Verazix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekker Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Roar is 50% base, and scales with power strength. Assuming 124% power strength (max focus/blind rage with Vanguard) that means 112% bonus damage on everything (which scales with other damage bonuses like Molecular Prime/Sonar/Accelerant). I rest my case :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etsoree Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Ok Ik this is a bad idea already but I've actually read posts of people complaining about Rhino having better stats (sprint) than regular rhino, I mean really we finally get the prime more than a forma and golden looks and people complain, it not that big of a difference either. Ik that with in the first few posts is going to be something like "complaining about complainers" but idc "We finally get the prime more than a forma"? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey1779 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Except Frost can create a defensive bubble for not only himself, but for allies and a defense target. What does Rhino protect other than himself? Frost has more Utility, albeit a small one in that regard. Frost's Snow Globe is now complete garbage, Frost has been relegated to low-mid level farming warframe as any ranged Grineer or Corpus level 30+ unit can take out a modded snow globe in a few seconds. The only use Frost's Snow Globe has in late game is against Infested since they do not have any ranged units yet. Once DE gives Infested a ranged unit everyone can sell their Frost warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovusNiveus Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 but without that speed boost then vanguard is almost mandatory which cuts your customization I use Thrak on my regular Rhino because I like the way it looks. I've never felt the need to run fast as a Rhino. Just my opinion, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Isn't it a bug that Rhino prime is faster then normal Rhino? Has DE stated that was intentional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberdown Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 personally I hate the fact that some frames are faster than others. Makes for team abandonment and never being able to stick with the team the norm...wish all frames had the same fast run speed... Id much rather prime frames have a small stat boost than any drain capacity manipulation, be it better polarizations ect (in fact I hate the fact the V polarity is related to such garbage and it seems to be the most common) Don't see why prime frames cant just have a bonus to HP/Shield/Stamina/Energy/Armor just pick one based on the frames role...doesn't have to be significant, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunamaniac Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Isn't it a bug that Rhino prime is faster then normal Rhino? Has DE stated that was intentional? Bugs don't just happen, if it is a bug they must have been messing with something they really didn't need to. That said, I hope it's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Bugs don't just happen, if it is a bug they must have been messing with something they really didn't need to. That said, I hope it's a bug. I'm pretty sure its a bug. I'm expecting it to be fixed this or next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yousho Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I think the idea is that Rhino Prime is decidedly better than Rhino, but no other Primes are decidedly better than their counterparts.If: Rhino Prime =/= RhinoAnd other Primes = Their regular modelsThen Either: Rhino < Other WarframesOrRhine Prime > Other Primes.I can defiantly see why people take issue with this. No other prime is an upgrade, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychus Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 but without that speed boost then vanguard is almost mandatory which cuts your customization It is NOT mandatory. You can keep up with your team without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Except Frost can create a defensive bubble for not only himself, but for allies and a defense target. What does Rhino protect other than himself? Frost has more Utility, albeit a small one in that regard. That defensive bubble is currently crap. Rhino has a large AoE crowd stasis ability. That would protect him and his allies from some enemy fire. In a thread I made earlier, I argued that Primes should be better than their other version. Why? Because they're Primes, Orokin Enhanced items. "Enheanced" meaning better. Instead of having something near useless. No useless gold trim that makes it "Prime". Instead, a stat boost, or perhaps something that outright removes or dampens what drawback that frame/weapon had. Then people cried power creep and balance making it sound like they wanted all weapons and frames to be close in stats so only the functionality of the weapon mattered and not the extra oompf it may or may not have. Which just sounds to me like "I want my Mk1 Braton to be as viable as a Soma!" Yeah no. I have no problem with primes being better than their non-prime counterparts. Its just the fact that Rhino Prime (with Vanguard) has the same sprint speed as Loki (a frame with low health, shields, and armor) that I don't like. Giving a prime an upgrade is fine, but Vanguard makes this ridiculous. The easiest way to solve this (without pissing too many people off) would simply be to restrict alt helmet usage so that only non-prime Warframes can use them. That way .9 Rhinos still get to be faster if they want, and Rhino Prime gets to keep his 1.0 sprint speed. They should also consider upping the Vanguard penalty from -5% power strength to something that would actually give players pause. Like -25% power strength... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thread title edited for clarity and moved to the proper section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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