Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I've not read all of the changes, but I did notice that you've only tinkered around the edges without getting to the core of actual problem. 

 

The percentage of buffs and nerfs to elemental damage vs armour/shield/ flesh types in the Damage 2.0 table. 

 

Mag is a very good example, doesn't matter how much you buff the damage, what ever additional damage type you add to it, reduce armour resistance whatever (I know these are not your ideas, just some of the ones I've noted on here) She will never be effective vs the Grineer. The table inflicts a -50% damage nerf and the armour a -30% damage nerf to magnetic damage. No ragdoll effect, nor damage buff will fix that. 

 

Fix the table, fix the frames. 

 

Until you can restrict damage buffs and nerfs of the elemental damage type to +25% and -25% maximum, the game will polarise frames between the two extremes of useless and OP.

[LukeAura]

Fix the table, fix the frames. 

 

Until you can restrict damage buffs and nerfs of the elemental damage type to +25% and -25% maximum, the game will polarise frames between the two extremes of useless and OP.

Not saying you aren't right but fixing the damage tables will still leave frames with unbalanced, unintuitive, inflexible and just plain boring abilities.

Damage table fixes and balances would be the topic of a different thread entirely. No numbers are ever mentioned in this thread as they're not the focus here.

 

Edited April 3, 2014 by LukeAura

[Archwizard]

I've not read all of the changes, but I did notice that you've only tinkered around the edges without getting to the core of actual problem. 

 

The percentage of buffs and nerfs to elemental damage vs armour/shield/ flesh types in the Damage 2.0 table. 

 

Mag is a very good example, doesn't matter how much you buff the damage, what ever additional damage type you add to it, reduce armour resistance whatever (I know these are not your ideas, just some of the ones I've noted on here) She will never be effective vs the Grineer. The table inflicts a -50% damage nerf and the armour a -30% damage nerf to magnetic damage. No ragdoll effect, nor damage buff will fix that. 

 

Fix the table, fix the frames. 

 

Until you can restrict damage buffs and nerfs of the elemental damage type to +25% and -25% maximum, the game will polarise frames between the two extremes of useless and OP.

General Gameplay Changes

 

Damage tables reworked: Radiation more effective against Infested than Corpus, Magnetic more effective against Ferrite Armor than Infested flesh, Slash’s proc blocked by shields, Blast damage less niche; only one armor type for Infested Ancients, universal Robotic modifier shared between Grineer/Corpus tech, no more than 2 Flesh types in all (one for Infested, one for everyone else); armor types between factions are more diverse – Infested Chargers can have residual Ferrite Armor from their days as Grineer soldiers, etc.

 

Way ahead of ya.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Not saying you aren't right but fixing the damage tables will still leave frames with unbalanced, unintuitive, inflexible and just plain boring abilities.

Damage table fixes and balances would be the topic of a different thread entirely. No numbers are ever mentioned in this thread as they're not the focus here.

 

 

Not really, Mag will still be better vs the Corpus than any other frame with +25% damage to all her abilities, just not "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" lvls of room clearing. And not so utterly useless vs the Grineer alloy armour, where she gets spanked hard, with -50% and then a -30% damage nerf to her abilities. 

 

How is that unbalanced and inflexible? any frame or weapon with radiation or puncture damage is going to beat Mag hands down. But currently I'd never consider using mag vs the Grineer. 

 

You can see what I'm proposing working with Ember now, other than Proto shields, she either does neutral damage or gets big buffs vs infested with heat damage buffs. Is she boring to play as?

 

Edit: 

 

Sorry misread what you said, it's late. I agree, but I think fixing that first before dealing with the abilities them selves is fundamental as the damage table is at the core of the balance issues.

Edited April 3, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

 

Way ahead of ya.

 

 

Ah okay, if that gets sorted, then I think our views on what needs buffing or nerfing may change. Currently it creates an extreme polarisation in many frames utility. 

[Archwizard]

This is what I thought about Crush:

 

If Crush had to function similarly to how it does now, it would fit its name and functionality more if, upon the move's conclusion, it slammed all the affected enemies together at an invisible locus in front of Mag. Afterward, they'd all fall to the ground and be ragdolled. It would make Crush more satisfying to use, if anything. The best way to imagine it would be that Crush would create a "pileup" of enemies smashing into each other at high speeds.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9C4ucDJ06o

 

As for 'grabbing' enemies behind walls or in other rooms, maybe they would still take the full damage but hit the wall and ragdoll anyway?

 

I think that having Crush pull all enemies into one spot near Mag would obsolete Pull. Perhaps instead, Crush could just pull enemies near each other together? That way Pull can still be used to group up enemies before Crushing them for maximum damage.

[Archwizard]

So, the new Water frame is going to be able to remove bodies.

 

Far as I can tell, that's all the more reason to remove Desecrate (as it currently stands), since we'll have two frames actively working against each other.

[Noble_Cactus]

I think that having Crush pull all enemies into one spot near Mag would obsolete Pull. Perhaps instead, Crush could just pull enemies near each other together? That way Pull can still be used to group up enemies before Crushing them for maximum damage.

 

Ooh, I like this. Gather a bunch of bodies with Pull, then smash them all together. Promotes move synergy, too. Maybe the range in which enemies are 'attracted' to one another is modified by range too? Or maybe not.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[EvanTheNewbie]

Oberon, for the love of god Oberon, DE, take those changes deep into mind.

[Archwizard]

Ooh, I like this. Gather a bunch of bodies with Pull, then smash them all together. Promotes move synergy, too. Maybe the range in which enemies are 'attracted' to one another is modified by range too? Or maybe not.

 

Works for me.

 

Oberon, for the love of god Oberon, DE, take those changes deep into mind.

 

Admittedly, Guardian Oath might be a little on the technical side, but the basic idea is pretty easy to figure out: mobile group mitigation.

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Honestly, the "brief" period of freezing time for Frost's Avalanche wouldn't be too viable. It would need to be at least around the 7-10 second mark in my opinion. But I agree with everything else. Zephyr frickin' trumps Frost in offense at the moment, and people kept saying she sucked or was weak if my memory serves me right. What does that say about Frost then, hmm?

 

Honestly, more damage was needed for his abilities but not just that. I mean really, in the end, he needs some CC. He commands ice, that should be more than enough of a reason to give him CC. He's more entitled to it than Booben.

[Archwizard]

Honestly, the "brief" period of freezing time for Frost's Avalanche wouldn't be too viable. It would need to be at least around the 7-10 second mark in my opinion. But I agree with everything else. Zephyr frickin' trumps Frost in offense at the moment, and people kept saying she sucked or was weak if my memory serves me right. What does that say about Frost then, hmm?

 

Honestly, more damage was needed for his abilities but not just that. I mean really, in the end, he needs some CC. He commands ice, that should be more than enough of a reason to give him CC. He's more entitled to it than Booben.

 

I agree that he needs more CC - but that should be part of his first three skills. The "brief" freeze on Avalanche is supposed to be a panic button, if you don't have time to hit Freeze on nearby targets. It creates a vital opening to do exactly that, or hit Ice Wave, without being a full-on CC unto itself.

[Evariskitsune]

 

I give you my support.  

[IfritKajiTora]

Great idea but you miss one good thing in Loki ^^
Changes to Loki:
Switch Teleport: When you will switch with enemy, Loki automaticly turns his head back and with one hand Aiming to the enemy head (this can be finally a more useful skill to make easier headshots)
Radial Disarm: Loki disarm is making that all enemies weapons stoping to work, he must send a high frequency(Hz) electric to do that, Infested are not humans they are like animals have other feelings, see different ,hear different like all animals on our planet. High electric frequency for Infested can be received by them to give them Pain and maze their insticts.
So the Radial Disarm could finally be usable on infested by Dealing them 500dmg and paralyze them for 6seconds. That same with corpus robots.

Edited April 6, 2014 by IfritKajiTora

[Archwizard]

Great idea but you miss one good thing in Loki ^^

Changes to Loki:

Switch Teleport: When you will switch with enemy, Loki automaticly turns his head back and with one hand Aiming to the enemy head (this can be finally a more useful skill to make easier headshots)

Radial Disarm: Loki disarm is making that all enemies weapons stoping to work, he must send a high frequency(Hz) electric to do that, Infested are not humans they are like animals have other feelings, see different ,hear different like all animals on our planet. High electric frequency for Infested can be received by them to give them Pain and maze their insticts.

So the Radial Disarm could finally be usable on infested by Dealing them 500dmg and paralyze them for 6seconds. That same with corpus robots.

 

Not really sure the Switch Teleport change would really be necessary, since it would completely turn you around and some people use Switch Teleport for, y'know, mobility.

 

As for paralyzing Infested and robots... perhaps. Would certainly be more useful against Rollers...

[Elydir]

What if you made GO so that it blocked a percentage of the damage but had a cap like Iron Skin? That way you could still benefit from reducing enemy damage without making it too complex

[LukeAura]

After finally being able to watch the latest Dev Stream Guardian Oath reminds me a lot of a team auto-parry.

Edited April 7, 2014 by LukeAura

[Archwizard]

After finally being able to watch the latest Dev Stream Guardian Oath reminds me a lot of a team auto-parry.

 

Kinda what I was going for, yeah. Like Oberon himself is just standing on front of you, blocking every shot.

Even in front of himself, through some weird inexplicable paradox.

[Elydir]

Not really sure the Switch Teleport change would really be necessary, since it would completely turn you around and some people use Switch Teleport for, y'know, mobility.

 

As for paralyzing Infested and robots... perhaps. Would certainly be more useful against Rollers...

 

Seems weird to me to have it be so selective though. Infested, robots and rollers, but no effect on regular melee enemies?

[Archangelzz]

Ashes ult is fine the way it is Valkyrie is being modified anyway as said by the devs themselves via live stream 26 the idea of Excaliburs ult is interesting.

[Elydir]

Ashes ult is fine the way it is

 

You're funny.

[Archwizard]

Trinity

All her abilities need some rework, AGAIN! Energy Vampire and Blessing in particular are both overpowered.

 

I added a few more lines to her that I believe will be satisfactory. Perhaps I will even do a write-up for her, though it would basically be reduced to "So remember those 'Power Creep' guys? This ones for them."

[goozilla]

>reduce Blessing to 1s

 

And her usability in endurance survivals/def is gone.

[LukeAura]

-Now with Trinity- 
Slowly this is becoming an ice cream shop of Frame revamps. Does this Technically make Trinity Neapolitan?

When your Blessing idea wears off do shields/health return back to normal, or do they stay overcharged until brought below? 
 

Edited April 10, 2014 by LukeAura

[Archwizard]

>reduce Blessing to 1s

 

You forgot the "per rank" and "multiply allies' health" bits.

 

When your Blessing idea wears off do shields/health return back to normal, or do they stay overcharged until brought below? 

 

Back to normal was the idea; just cut health off the top if you're over cap when it ends.