taiiat Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 -snip-it seems to 'work as intended' (taking some liberties on what i think is intended) if you try to pull yourself to the ceiling.the more vertical it is from you, the WAY more Velocity you get. like, if you pull yourself straight up, you can hit your head on the ceilings of most Tiles. meanwhile, using it laterally, the usual "oh Valkyr got bored after 5 feet and let go" annoyance. i'd presume that these 'Mobility' Abilities would get revisions to be less 'only useful for Mobility' and more Combat Tool, since Mobility won't be strictly tied to your Equipment. Slash Dash seems to be showing that things are likely to change. pinballing off of some Enemies, cutting each one. which then hopefully: - Rhino Charge will Ragdoll the Targets you hit, because that's useful and good fun. - Tailwind... my first thoughts would be things similar to Rhino Charge... Stuns and Ragdolls. not completely sure what to do here. still should retain some direct Mobility though, since it's what allows Zephyr to pretend she's a bird. - Tidal Surge... i got nothing off the top of my head. at any rate, the idea being, useful Combat purposes for them, with a side of Mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 - Tailwind... my first thoughts would be things similar to Rhino Charge... Stuns and Ragdolls. not completely sure what to do here. still should retain some direct Mobility though, since it's what allows Zephyr to pretend she's a bird. - Tidal Surge... i got nothing off the top of my head. Tail Wind: Something to keep you airborne, like a hover. Since you're not likely to hit anybody in the air anyway, a stronger side of mobility is apt. Tidal Surge: "YOU'RE ALL COMING WITH ME!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What annoys me more about Rip Line is how it never seems to be able to hit most enemies because of the casting delay. Aiming that ability is horrible. Maybe make it instant cast or much faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What annoys me more about Rip Line is how it never seems to be able to hit most enemies because of the casting delay.?if you look at an Enemy, and cast it while looking directly at it, it can move and you'll still cast Ripline to it. there's probably some maximum compensating it can do, but i don't have problems hitting Enemies with it, because it isn't like shooting a Beam, it selects that as the target and shoots at it. (or something like that - both me and the Enemy can move and it'll still hit it, so it must have some compensating metrics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 ? if you look at an Enemy, and cast it while looking directly at it, it can move and you'll still cast Ripline to it. there's probably some maximum compensating it can do, but i don't have problems hitting Enemies with it, because it isn't like shooting a Beam, it selects that as the target and shoots at it. (or something like that - both me and the Enemy can move and it'll still hit it, so it must have some compensating metrics). Huh. Really? Didn't know that. I always found it to be like Frost's 1 - just a bit off, and the thing just launches you harmlessly past. Although even if that really is the case, it's still a pain to aim... just like Frost's 1. Especially during a heavy firefight or when being swarmed by infested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Archwizard, what are your thoughts in having the distance covered by charge attacks scaling off range rather than duration? It's been bothering me for a while now how much easier it would be on those frames that have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 it's probably the entire point to make it not as easy by having it tied to Duration. requiring the Player to think about their decisions more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Archwizard, what are your thoughts in having the distance covered by charge attacks scaling off range rather than duration? It's been bothering me for a while now how much easier it would be on those frames that have them. Well, charge attacks are coded to put you in a state of high speed propulsion for a millisecond-incremented period. Range does affect those abilities, just insofar as their width rather than length. I suppose theoretically they could code around it, eg use Ice Wave's formula and then just... teleport you to the end, I guess. It might be hard to have in-between frames for a fixed Range when you're affected by things like gravity. Personally, I don't really see an issue with it. Consider Zephyr: The fact that Tail Wind has a Duration rather than a fixed Range defined at the start of the cast means that she can interrupt her travel with Dive Bomb; the ability to do so has been a request for many charge abilities, like Slash Dash (albeit it will soon be the main exception, given this week's rework), so that you can travel to destinations with precision. Furthermore, most of the frames with this type of skill (bar Rhino) already have a high value in their Duration stat anyway (especially with Excalibur's new ultimate coming), so I can't see who it hurts. Edited June 16, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elydir Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have you had a chance to try the new excalibur ult yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 curious, Digital Extremes doesn't seem to have any problems with Mods like Rage, Life Strike, and Et Cetera working in Channeled Abilities, since Exalted Blade allows these Mods to work. if they're okay with it, then... i guess i'm okay with it? i don't really know. all i can say is... curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) curious, Digital Extremes doesn't seem to have any problems with Mods like Rage, Life Strike, and Et Cetera working in Channeled Abilities, since Exalted Blade allows these Mods to work. I don't think it's curious at all. Rage has always been enabled for channeled abilities, while Exalted Blade is supposed to allow all mods on your melee to function. What I find more curious, however, is that the ability flies back in the face of all channeled abilities. I've been stating for a while now that the tradeoff to not have a maximum duration on a channeled skill seems to be having some kind of penalty (Sound Quake, Absorb, Undertow, and Peacemaker all make you immobile, Spectral Scream slows you down, Effigy removes your armor), all of which adding up to a skill that DE wants you to eventually toggle off. Exalted Blade, on the other hand, is designed to be utilized for a long period - if we assume that all toggled abilities are normalized to cost their slot's typical amount of energy over their expected uptime (eg fixed amounts of energy like Conclaves), then Exalted Blade was made to last at least 30 seconds at a time. It has virtually no penalty for its uptime; sure, you're limited to a melee weapon, but you're not missing out on not having a gun due to the projectile waves, and the skill has rather absurd base damage for its speed. Excalibur was well and truly designed to have Exalted Blade always be active - and that's mildly terrifying, because as exceptions start being made, more arguments can be made that there is no longer any logical reason for a penalty on channeled skills, nor reason to have duration on skills without penalty like World on Fire. Edited June 19, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) as exceptions start being made, more arguments can be made that there is no longer any logical reason for a penalty on channeled skills, nor reason to have duration on skills without penalty like World on Fire.well, if Channeled Abilities become more like Exalted Blade, i'm fine with being able to have them on most of the time in your Gameplay.decently effective, but not amazing, but ofcourse, you can use it basically forever. and i think i'm okay with that. yes, previously, Channeled Abilities root you in place or something else like that for balancing - but if we don't need to do that, by all means. Warframe is supposed to be a fast paced game, standing still doesn't really mesh with that, so. hell, if that means Peacemaker can be like a Guns version of Exalted Blade, again, by all means. i'd love to be able to Quickdraw Regulators, and shoot things in the face for big Headshot Bonuses. and continue doing so until i decide i don't want to anymore, then put them back away. that's great: - always available - can use it when you feel it's necessary - if you need to use it for N time, you could theoretically, but does come with some drawbacks - Initial Cost to avoid spamming it on and off constantly - allows the Player to still be interacting with the game as much as possible (including moving) - hopefully doesn't automatically do things for you, rather giving you another Tool to use at your own leisure, but you will need to actually use the Tool, the Tool won't use itself. these are all great things to have for any of the Channeled Abilities. Edited June 20, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ugh, this is why I hate mobile.... Can someone give me a TL;DR on the Nekros changes? Also, Archwizard, do you think we can add a Radial Blast effect to Rhino's Roar without it being broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 do you think we can add a Radial Blast effect to Rhino's Roar without it being broken?for some reason, when i read that, i instantly thought of Rhino Roaring, and a dramatic Violin playing, and all of the Enemies nearby being stunned in panic. 'scared stiff'.i also for some reason thought of Bioshock Infinite. perhaps i just thought of how Characters and the Music reacted in it. i don't really know. i'm just blabbering out loud because it's an idea and not writing all ideas you ever have down is a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ugh, this is why I hate mobile.... Can someone give me a TL;DR on the Nekros changes? - Drain a target's life, shatter its armor, destroy its soul and raise its corpse. - No more Desecrate. - More minion support and Power Strength focus. Also, Archwizard, do you think we can add a Radial Blast effect to Rhino's Roar without it being broken? I honestly don't see why Rhino would even need it? They rolled Radial Blast into Stomp for a reason. Roar's got a CD anyway, so it exactly wouldn't be damage on-demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 - Drain a target's life, shatter its armor, destroy its soul and raise its corpse. - No more Desecrate. - More minion support and Power Strength focus. I honestly don't see why Rhino would even need it? They rolled Radial Blast into Stomp for a reason. Roar's got a CD anyway, so it exactly wouldn't be damage on-demand. One day I'll fix my PC.....Those sound great on Nekros, I wish I could see the details. As for the Roar effect, I was hoping to add an alternative function to Roar when you kill it's duration for efficiency. 2 seconds of damage buff isn't helping much, but knockdowns are always good. Put on Fleeting, Transient Fortitude and Blond Rage, and you have a good efficiency Stomp, Iron Skin and a reliable knockdown for when Rhino Stomp isn't practical or already active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I was hoping to add an alternative function to Roar when you kill it's duration for efficiency.now there's puttin' yer thinkin' cap on. useful with low and high Duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 As for the Roar effect, I was hoping to add an alternative function to Roar when you kill it's duration for efficiency. 2 seconds of damage buff isn't helping much Well I was going to say "We have a taunt for that", but it looks like the devs heard you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elydir Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 -snip- I was asking about Excal because I was wondering how you think it compares to Valkyrs Hysteria. Since Excals and Valks ults are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well I was going to say "We have a taunt for that", but it looks like the devs heard you.I see.I was convinced otherwise recently, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 So just an idea I had for Ballistic Battery earlier: What if it passively charged at all times, but required enough energy to hit 1 to actually turn it on? Having to toggle it in the first place is most of the reason it feels so awkward to use. So, maybe something like Energy Channel where it just goes up to 100 every so often. Alternatively, if it got the change you proposed, maybe remove the 'short duration' bit altogether and just go by x number of shots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I was asking about Excal because I was wondering how you think it compares to Valkyrs Hysteria. Since Excals and Valks ults are similar. Hmm. Well, Hysteria could certainly benefit from being affected by weapon mods the same way as Exalted Blade... Alternatively, if it got the change you proposed, maybe remove the 'short duration' bit altogether and just go by x number of shots? Then it'd still be more powerful for weapons like bows, which sort of defeats the purpose of the change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hmm. Well, Hysteria could certainly benefit from being affected by weapon mods the same way as Exalted Blade... Then it'd still be more powerful for weapons like bows, which sort of defeats the purpose of the change... Oh, right - gah, forgot about that. Problem with BB is really just that it's a pain in the rear to use, though. Would passive charging not work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsterwithin Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 1+++! Great ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Problem with BB is really just that it's a pain in the rear to use, though. Would passive charging not work? It would, I just don't see the point really. If you ever need to charge it up rapidly, jump on Peacemaker for 2-3 seconds. Makes Winds of Purity way more ammo-efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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