Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[(PSN)Zarrc]

And now there is a new skin before they rework Oreberon? Come on now! Look Oberon is a fun frame to play but when you get to end game there is no denying that his powers are next to useless. Everything needs to be buffed. 

1: Smite needs to be what it is now but with the homing effect much faster. 

2: Hollowed Ground can still be called that but it needs to behave like an aura and on top of the buff to armor and knock down reduction it should buff shields and give a slow over time heal to any allies in the aura. 

3: Renewal is one of the most broken and this is my thought on it. If Oberon is the Paladin of Warframe, let's give him a miracle. Renewal should instantly revive downed allies at distance and heal them. This would cost an initial flat power cost of 50 to Revive any number of allies at once to half health with half shield and then cost additional power to continue to heal all affected to full or until his power runs out. This would all the sudden allow Oberon to have a very real effect on the survivability of allies LATE GAME while still holding that power in check. It also pulls him out of the role of "having a heal... but Trinity's is better". 

4: Reckoning really just needs to be tweeked. First it should have a slightly lower base cost. And secondly it should pull everyone caught in the field together before slamming them to the ground. This way the knock down effect is more useful because you could dispatch more than one enemy for each use.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

it should pull everyone caught in the field together before slamming them to the ground. This way the knock down effect is more useful because you could dispatch more than one enemy for each use.

this would actually make Reckoning less effective - the Blind Effect centered on every Enemy caught in the Radius helps CC extra Enemies that were not in Range. pulling the Enemies together would nullify the extra CC bonuses that Reckoning has.

and pulling Enemies together wouldn't let you 'dispatch more than one enemy for each use'... it's already an AoE Blast type Ability, uh...... what?

[(PSN)Zarrc]

The blind affect isn't that effective. It isn't enough to blind other enemies; it would be better to up damage base, lengthen the knock down time, or multiply the damage based on the amount of enemies caught in it. I understand there must be a limit so he doesn't go from useless to OP but this idea of being the jack of all trades is never going to be great. 

[taiiat]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

but this idea of being the jack of all trades is never going to be great. 

it's already a very effective CC Ability.
Damage Multiplication is entirely unnecessary, Damage volume is quite reasonable and Oberon is very far from focused around direct Damage, he is a Support Warframe.
the length of the hard CC component is okay, but i suppose it wouldn't be problematic for Reckoning to say, hold Enemies airbone for up to a second before it slam jams.

every aspect of Reckoning not lasting for 30 seconds before Mods and covering the entire universe is not the fault of Oberon, but is the fault of Warframes with too good to be true Abilities that cause problems with the game.

[(PSN)Zarrc]

I can buy that but are the Devs going to nerff every other frame or beef up a few of the less effective ones? Also I did say "or" I definitely don't want Oberon to be everything but a longer immobilization on his "ultimate" would be good enough to help. On top of that I hate that to be good we have to have mods to cover up frames flaws. "Reckoning not lasting for 30 seconds before Mods and covering the entire universe is not the fault of Oberon"? I think a frame should have strong base abilities that with the right mods make it a viable option late game. Furthermore Smite and Reckoning are the least broken of his abilities. Hollowed Ground and Renewal are really where the Devs could make a real change. 

[RealPandemonium]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

I can buy that but are the Devs going to nerff every other frame or beef up a few of the less effective ones

If they just buff everything up then the game will become even more of a snoozefest.  The first step toward a better Warframe is removing the cheese and auto-farming from the game.  

[taiiat]

considering gameplay can already 99% be run by scripts with how many Abilities are an instant win state, i don't think making more of that is really helpful.

[(PSN)Zarrc]

Play Oberon in a T4 survival or defense. His powers are next to useless and ends up relying mostly on weapons alone. This would be fine if that was to be expected but isn't the point of abilities to have actual real gameplay utility. 

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

Play Oberon in a T4 survival or defense. His powers are next to useless and ends up relying mostly on weapons alone. This would be fine if that was to be expected but isn't the point of abilities to have actual real gameplay utility. 

T4 is not a meaningful benchmark because x3 enemy damage means that you permaCC the map/otherwise attain effective invulnerability, or die.  That said, Oberon can keep the map irradiated, protect himself/teammates from procs, and tank/heal pretty well.  The healing/tanking bit doesn't really apply to T4 due to the excessive damage, but the rest holds up.  

[(PSN)Zarrc]

The point of that statement is T4 starts at a already high enemy lvl that gets progressively more dificult to handel. And yes I have crushed with my Oberon for long periods of time but his heal is only good for himself since timeing it right for alies is impossible, Smite doesn't do enough to put down higher enemies, hallowed ground by being static instead of a cast aura typically isn't used for its armor bonus (if it is it is brief or you and alies die) and its damage is to slow unless the enemy just sits on it, and reckoning is to expensive for how little damage it does and killing with it is the only way to even have a chance at dropping health orbs. So please explain how Oberon is so effective end game because I've forma'd mine 4+ times (like I said I think he's fun) but he still can't keep up. I know I'm not the only one either. Oberon is widely regarded as a broken frame late game. 

[taiiat]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

Smite doesn't do enough to put down higher enemies

hallowed ground its damage is to slow unless the enemy just sits on it

and reckoning is to expensive for how little damage it does and killing with it is the only way to even have a chance at dropping health orbs.

Smite puts them down pretty good, your intended Target suffers a Knockdown. :)

i recommend using Hallowed Eruption. it lets Oberon use the Ability as a significant offensive tool.

it's a CC Ability, how much Damage it does is irrelevant. 'not enough Damage' is a complaint everyone can apply to everything except Cover Lethality, because it's possible to not instantly Kill an Enemy with anything else. therefore everything does not enough Damage, and everything should be a script Kill to solve that problem.
it's Damage component is the least important part of it.
solving the Health Orb feature can simply allow a 50% Chance for an Enemy to drop a Health Orb when hit by Reckoning. only once per Enemy, not repeated.

[(PSN)Zarrc]

To clarify by put down I mean kill. And having to add a Syndicate Mod means sacrificing either survivability, general damage out put, or power duration/intensity. The long and short of it is the mods shouldn't be there to make a frame mearly usable, but exceptional to a specific play style (whatever that means to the player using it). 

I do understand Oberon is a support frame, though, which is why I suggest giving him a truly useful support/heal power. If you look back at my original post on this thread I outline his 3 power as his most broken for use as a team support tool. 

3: Renewal is one of the most broken and this is my thought on it. If Oberon is the Paladin of Warframe, let's give him a miracle. Renewal should instantly revive downed allies at distance and heal them. This would cost an initial flat power cost of 50 to Revive any number of allies at once to half health with half shield and then cost additional power to continue to heal all affected to full or until his power runs out. This would all the sudden allow Oberon to have a very real effect on the survivability of allies LATE GAME while still holding that power in check. It also pulls him out of the role of "having a heal... but Trinity's is better". 

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

The long and short of it is the mods shouldn't be there to make a frame mearly usable, but exceptional to a specific play style.

that's exactly what Hallowed Eruption does. it lets Players opt into a very offensive role with Oberon, which is not a role he normally does (or should/would) have by theme.
you don't have to sacrifice anything because Hallowed Eruption does insane Damage.

 

and i know you meant Kill. i was making an on topic joke, while you complain a Warframe that isn't about Damage doesn't do enough Damage. which is pretty incredulous.

[Blakrana]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

It also pulls him out of the role of "having a heal... but Trinity's is better". 

Whilst such optimism is refreshing, that's absolutely not what happens.

Blessing: Full health and Shield Restore, Infinite range, snappy cast time and proportional DR to resist incoming attacks.

There is no situation when Blessing is not the objectively better healing skill for everything it does. Adding the capacity to revive downed enemies to Renewal isn't going to make Oberon more useful in late game when it comes to heals, even if it is a buff to the standing Bleedout stagnation it causes. Purely because Blessing can always be relied upon. A skill having a Revive trait is nice dressing, but if it doesn't do anything for the majority of time then it's not really much of a relevant component. People will still judge it on its active healing ability and rightly so.

Making Renewal better at providing reliable, dependable Triage is something more useful to late game than a situational, even if useful, trait. Auto-revive on its own isn't enough in a situation where people are getting dropped rapidly, hence the CC or Nuke mentality at those points. Can't kill you if it's dead/frozen after all. Figuring out if it's meant to be a pure Toggle or Duration skill is a big step as the former could give Oberon a lot more options. Travel speed/range is also something that needs a look in.

[(PSN)Zarrc]

23 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

A skill having a Revive trait is nice dressing, but if it doesn't do anything for the majority of time then it's not really much of a relevant component. People will still judge it on its active healing ability and rightly so.

Making Renewal better at providing reliable, dependable Triage is something more useful to late game than a situational, even if useful, trait.

That is why I propose that Hollowed ground be an aura that buffs shields and gives a slow heal overtime as well as what it does to enemies. I don't think one power or aspect of a power will make him whole, but a rework of all his powers together will. And even though Trinity's heal will always be better Oberon would not be doing what she does but something new entirely. 

[--Q--uaint]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Zarrc said:

I don't think one power or aspect of a power will make him whole, but a rework of all his powers together will.

TBH, I think giving Renewal a significant flat armor bonus and making Hallowed Ground actually usable would fix a lot of the issue people have with him. With that buff, all of his powers now have identifiable roles to fill.
Making Renewal either channeled or have a duration would also be good, and it definitely needs to stay on all targets for as long as it's active.

As for making Hallowed Ground good, I suggest buffing its base range to ~150% or so, with either a large buff to duration or a lowered energy cost. Making the armor buff worth modding for would be cool, too (which would work with Renewal's additive bonus quite nicely).

[KingSolir]

Just throwing this out there but, what do you think about adding elemental resistance to Chroma's Elemental Ward. Chroma is a Dragon and and Elemental type warframe he should have some sort of damage reduction to them, just like Frost should have passive Ice resistance, same for Volt and Ember for their respective Elements.

For elemental ward there should be an elemental weakness Circle

Fire is weak to Ice, Ice is weak to Lightning, Lightning is weak to Toxin, Toxin is weak to Fire.

Chroma would get 90% reduction to his current element 50% reduction to the two Elements Hes neutral to, and Boost to the Element He is Weak Against.

now this next part isn't really necessary just an add on

Chroma Could get a resistance to Combo elements for example if you were Ice element you would have 90% Ice resistance and Zero Lightning resistance so that would give a 45% resistance to magnetic proc and Damage.

Dragon Scales Usually are resistant to Elements, just saying.

[taiiat]

6 minutes ago, UndeadGunman said:

about adding elemental resistance to Chroma's Elemental Ward.

 

other Warframes should have Elemental Resistances

- that sounds great, really. it matches the Theme well. (and gives more reason to consider using Fire Chroma than the almost zero reason atm)

oh, you want +/-. hm.
resistant to the current Element sounds good, however Fire/Ice are the only two that are technically opposites of each other.
mayhaps 20-25% increase to the other 3, while resisting the current significantly(60-75%).

 

- for the 459801392450643215435687th time, no.
it's either too much of a balance issue or too much of a waste of time. i.e. if the Percentage is high, it'll be a balance problem and if it's low to avoid balance problems, it'll be so minute that it's pointless.

 

[KingSolir]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

resistant to the current Element sounds good, however Fire/Ice are the only two that are technically opposites of each other.

the method i put

Fire>Ice>Lightning>Toxin>Fire sets up an Elemental Weakness Circle, which is the easiest and most simplistic way to implement elemental weaknesses in anything, Had very little to do with Opposites because it's impossible without the addition of at least 2 new elements.

Edited May 3, 2016 by UndeadGunman

[--Q--uaint]

I saw in another thread somewhere that a hold-cast of Elemental Ward should hot-swap your element, allowing more flexibility and giving him more of a “master of elements” rather than a “servant of one element” theme.

Edited May 3, 2016 by ChronoEclipse

[taiiat]

i'll go for it, if i could switch Elementals on the fly, Fire/Toxin would be so much more useful. instead of it being pretty much 'Ice is always useful, Electric sometimes'.

still wouldn't save Spectral Scream though... but that's more to do with s...ty Continuous Weapon mechanics and severe mobility reduction despite being a very weak Ability.

[KingSolir]

it doesn't make sense to talk about problems in this thread that are already mentioned on the front page for changes.

[Archwizard]

On 5/2/2016 at 3:36 PM, UndeadGunman said:

Just throwing this out there but, what do you think about adding elemental resistance to Chroma's Elemental Ward.

Just to throw a wrench in that, how many enemies do we have dealing Cold damage? How many factions deal Toxin or Heat damage? How effective is Electric damage already?

See, the push for Frost or Ember to have a passive resistance to elements was born out of knowing that the primary element types are infrequently used (thereby allowing them to measure up against the very slight boosts provided by other passives), and the statuses are the bigger nuisances anyway. Balancing Chroma in any way around that is... essentially just there for flavor.

On 5/3/2016 at 5:26 AM, ChronoEclipse said:

I saw in another thread somewhere that a hold-cast of Elemental Ward should hot-swap your element, allowing more flexibility and giving him more of a “master of elements” rather than a “servant of one element” theme.

Sounds great - but unfortunately some things have popped up on reddit that make that seem unlikely.

On 5/3/2016 at 2:48 PM, UndeadGunman said:

it doesn't make sense to talk about problems in this thread that are already mentioned on the front page for changes.

People can talk about whatever balance issues they want to talk about in this thread, and agree or disagree freely with the OP. That's the point of discussion.

[taiiat]

19 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Balancing Chroma in any way around that is... essentially just there for flavor.

i think it's perfect actually - basically only Ice Eximus have Ice Damage, and Electric Eximus & Sapping Ospreys Electric Damage (Corpus Snipers are also Electric Damage unless that was changed). very few Enemies having these Damage Types is actually perfect. they're already the two most popular types.

so then the moderate number of Fire Enemies and okay number of Toxin Enemies, would give Players more reason to want to use those Modes.
if you mix that with being able to change your Element on the fly, you'll see Players actually tactically choosing what Element to use (for more than just resist, that's just one part) for different situations.

again, it's perfect that very few Enemies do Ice or Electric Damage in general - it helps balance out the Elemental choices better.

[Basilisk1991]

Really I would like to see them find some way to incorporate bounce into Bastille (Basically having it generates a column of reduced gravity for your allies and still slam enemies against low ceilings before stunning them)  and maybe have Vauban get a new second ability (Like a heavy turret or some form of mines?). Also to elaborate on something I mentioned ages ago when Ivara came out, maybe we could give you a few different setting for his Tesla grenades? Like instead of JUST having the default mode with random bolts shot out every 3 seconds you could get a setting that acts like an arc trap that deals constant damage to everything in a set range around it (With a decreased range/duration as a trade-off) or like the Sappers dropped by the Ospreys (with less single target damage but more predictable AoE). In addition I would like to see you get rewarded for actually getting the Tesla grenades attached to a target (Maybe they get hit with a shock every time the grenade shocks another enemy). 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Basilisk1991