Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Archwizard]

Submitted the Blessing/Renewal reworks to the Dev Workshop, and the OP. May actually rename the thread to draw attention to that.

43 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I think what you've posted there is all pretty fair and reasonable.

However, I still like my idea for Blessing better. Reposting for convenience:

Eh.

For starters, part of the point here is that Trinity's healing model still retains that unlimited range aspect of it - that way, Oberon and Equinox's only failings as healers are that their range is limited, to make up for being more Jack of All Trades, without costing their actual effectiveness.

Second, the "buffer" you're referring to has far less scalability than you think. Well of Life as it is now only grants a flat amount of healing per target, and player health has surprisingly low caps compared to enemy health.

[taiiat]

there's a hundred cool, interesting ways Blessing(or most any Ability) could work.
but you can only really choose one... and everybody has a bit of a different idea of what mechanics are the most interesting and engaging.

now if only Abilities could all be how everyone wants it to work for just them alone....
my ideal dream day in the future is that Abilities in Warframe can be as customizable as Abilities in Popup Dungeon. (specfically this stuff, if you're not actually interested in the game and just want to know what i'm talking about)

not likely to happen, but i'll always dream.

Edited May 27, 2016 by taiiat

[Cytobel]

I'm slightly dubious about this Ash passive, although a rework of Bladestorm might fix things.

I've seen a TON of fits being pitched about Trinity already.  Really, I hope we're not left with another unusable Trin period, as that was sad last time.  On the other hand, part of me WANTS both Bladestorm and Blessing to die totally, just to see whats left, and what people can do with it.

As much as I was charmed by the story behind the new Volt passive, the reality seems dramatically under-....  everything.  I hope the element rework, hell, the EVERYTHING rework comes soon.

Is it reasonable to feel like Vauban only having a passive when other players are around is BS?  I'm especially worried by radial damage effects and Vaubans in conjunction now.  One Napalm could be bad enough before, but now?  Two or more dead cellmates, one blast.

EDIT:  I should make mention that the part of Vauban's passive I hate the most is that it gives solo play the middle finger.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Cytobel

[taiiat]

17 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I'm slightly dubious about this Ash passive

especially since Saryn already does basically the same thing? (25% to all Status Duration)
very lamesauce therefore, it's something we already have.

atleast for Saryn Status Duration fits the theme :v

[Cytobel]

24 minutes ago, taiiat said:

especially since Saryn already does basically the same thing? (25% to all Status Duration)
very lamesauce therefore, it's something we already have.

atleast for Saryn Status Duration fits the theme :v

It's more brutal on Ash than Saryn could ever manage.  His bleeds on Bladestorm are the major damage component.  That's more of a thing to me than repetition, though now that you mention it....

-_-

[--Q--uaint]

On 5/27/2016 at 0:04 AM, Archwizard said:

Second, the “buffer” you're referring to has far less scalability than you think.

I know it doesn’t scale very far. That’s the point. Power Strength will stretch it a little further, but it’s not gonna let you just facetank stuff unless you are already equipped to do that.

Hmmm. Making the heal infinite-range would totally be fair, though. Especially in light of its comparative lame-ness.

On 5/27/2016 at 0:04 AM, Archwizard said:

Well of Life as it is now only grants a flat amount of healing per target,

That’s true. I definitely made this with WoL giving DR in mind :P

I think I'm gonna go and edit my post to buff it up a bit.

My edited Blessing for a less-powerful WoL:

Spoiler

Blessing: As now, instant 80% heal of HP and shields, scaling with Power Strength. All (actual, not potential) healed HP and shields is put in a “buffer” for Trinity, and is displayed for her in much the same way as Mend or Maim’s accumulation is. Not only does the amount Trinity can heal based on power strength, but the buffer is also multiplied by power strength.
Blessing provides a Quick Thinking-style effect for the whole squad based on the buffer it builds, starting at 5 HP so it takes over before normal QT does.
This effect does not create the standard QT stagger under any circumstances.
This effect drains only from Blessing’s “buffer,” with each point equaling 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 health. (scales with Power Strength)
Synergy with Well of Life: all healing done by Well of Life during Blessing is added to the QT buffer. Well of Life is no longer capped per-player.

On 5/27/2016 at 0:04 AM, Archwizard said:

player health has surprisingly low caps compared to enemy health.

lol IKR

Edited May 29, 2016 by ChronoEclipse

[Archwizard]

Something I'm actually considering: If the mitigation buff on Blessing falls off over time, it might be an idea to have the mitigation include downed players in its calculation for "most damaged player".

Someone dies, you pop Blessing to extend their bleedout and give yourself a few seconds of high mitigation with which to revive them. It might be fairly low mitigation by the time you're done, of course.

But then again, she does have Link for that very purpose.

[--Q--uaint]

1 minute ago, Archwizard said:

It might be fairly low mitigation by the time you're done, of course.

With her passive, probably not?

1 minute ago, Archwizard said:

But then again, she does have Link for that very purpose.

More importantly, it will give allies the protection they need to rez the person.

 

I think this is a relatively good idea.

[Archwizard]

So, two things:

1. Blessing's mitigation calculation has been altered, so it's much more difficult for a single Trinity to abuse within a full group - and even more difficult to abuse in a full Trial. Now that I'm looking at it, perhaps it's unnecessary to have the mitigation diminish over time - although the other effects could probably stay. It is a bit unfortunate that the effect is limited to 50 yards now, though...
2. Mag's Shield Polarize has apparently been stealth-nerfed beyond the parameters discussed - it now deals a flat amount of damage. That's... not okay.

[RealPandemonium]

35 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Mag's Shield Polarize has apparently been stealth-nerfed beyond the parameters discussed - it now deals a flat amount of damage. That's... not okay.

It's not OK that it's now balanced against other damage powers instead of infinity?  

SP was a gimmick and a crutch that buried mag into a meta niche that caused DE to overlook her for years.  

[Archwizard]

30 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

It's not OK that it's now balanced against other damage powers instead of infinity?  

It's not okay because the change was a stealth nerf of significant relevance.
It's not okay because the effect was already weakened in other ways to justify its power level, including an increase to its cost.
It's not okay because a scaling function of her kit was completely removed, and its loss was not otherwise compensated within the ability.
It's not okay because the effect now simply deals a flat amount of damage, which is a failing of many powers that this thread seeks to address.

Shall I go on? 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Archwizard

[RealPandemonium]

 

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

It's not okay because the change was a stealth nerf of significant relevance.
It's not okay because the effect was already weakened in other ways to justify its power level, including an increase to its cost.
It's not okay because a scaling function of her kit was completely removed, and its loss was not otherwise compensated within the ability.
It's not okay because the effect now simply deals a flat amount of damage, which is a failing of many powers that this thread seeks to address.

Shall I go on? 

 

It wasn't a stealth nerf; it was an overt nerf.  Infinitely scaling damage > non-infinitely scaling damage, implicitly.  

If you're talking about the MPrime treatment it received, that's arguably a buff since it continues to affect new enemies that enter the radius without having to re-cast.  It was arguably a buff to MPrime as well (it's certainly more useful overall than it was pre-change.)  The increase in cost is almost totally negligible in the current game state, and it is arguably more efficient now due to the MPrime treatment, anyway.  

Infinite scaling (especially when this means "always 1-shot regardless of enemy stats) inherently trivializes gameplay, especially when applied in a large AOE.  The answer to the enemy scaling problem is not to slap game-trivializing effects onto every power.

Damage powers predominantly deal flat damage amounts, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.  The trouble started in earnest when DE powercreeped weapons, which accommodated overstaying in endless missions, which promoted more powercreep, which promoted the introduction of artificially more difficult missions with enemy levels far beyond the scope of what power damage values were balanced around.  Truly addressing this would require a systematic change; the current popular notion of adding intrinsic scaling exploitable mechanics to damage powers and leaving their damage unbalanced is just digging a deeper hole when it comes to the problem of the game's balance.  

Go on, though.  As a rule, try to offer arguments that don't fall under "she'll be less popular now" or "we had OP for so long, why not make everything else OP," since those have been done to death over the years.  

Edited May 28, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Archwizard]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

It wasn't a stealth nerf; it was an overt nerf.  Infinitely scaling damage > non-infinitely scaling damage, implicitly.  

... that's not even what stealth nerf means. Of all of the changes she received, this was the most important one they forgot to mention entirely, either in the past several devstreams, the Workshop, example playthroughs on the dev build, and (cementing the definition of stealth nerf) the patch notes.

^{Also known as a "ninja nerf".}

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

If you're talking about the MPrime treatment it received, that's arguably a buff since it continues to affect new enemies that enter the radius without having to re-cast.  It arguably a buff to MPrime as well.  

Side-grade at best. It affects new enemies without having to re-cast, but it also reaches its maximum range at a slower rate. That alone was enough justification for further changes to MPrime to stop there. (... nerfs to how it murders PC performance aside.)

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Damage powers predominantly deal flat damage amounts, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.  The trouble started in earnest when DE powercreeped weapons, which accommodated overstaying in endless missions, which promoted more powercreep, which promoted the introduction of artificially more difficult missions with enemy levels far beyond the scope of what power damage values were balanced around.  Truly addressing this would require a systematic change; the current popular notion of adding intrinsic scaling exploitable mechanics to damage powers and leaving their damage unbalanced is just digging a deeper hole when it comes to the problem of the game's balance.  

Not completely accurate. DE powercreeped weapons in response to the original damage model, which had all enemies gaining the benefits of exponential increases to EHP from a combination of health, shields and armor, on top of upscaling damage. While the Damage 2.0 model mitigated this by addressing the distribution of health types, it did not eliminate it completely. Since then, it's been batted in both directions.

"Power creep" alone only works as a catch-all counterargument if it works towards achieving a balance. In Warframe's case, the power creep extends in both directions, but we've yet to see any progress made to flatten enemies' scaling so that a player's flat-damage effects can retain relevance. It doesn't make sense to pre-emptively adjust a power to function in a post-power creep state we haven't yet reached in the game; otherwise we end up with a case like Silence, "it'll be a good ability once we make the necessary changes to the rest of the game". While the change does need to be made eventually, player power changes can come in any hotfix, where enemy systems changes await major updates - that type of extensive change is a long way out at sea.

Energy is a more precious and rare resource than ammo is. Meanwhile, energy has more uses than ammo does: damage powers, utility powers, Channeling, Quick Thinking, etc. That's why the call is generally for Warframes whose powers offer a utility that weapons cannot duplicate on their own; why should I spend energy on an attack that simply deals the same damage as a bullet, when I can use that energy to amplify my next dozen bullets?

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

As a rule, try to offer arguments that don't fall under "she'll be less popular now" or "we had OP for so long, why not make everything else OP," 

... Have some faith, RP. When have I ever here?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

24 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Mag's Shield Polarize has apparently been stealth-nerfed beyond the parameters discussed - it now deals a flat amount of damage. That's... not okay.

Percentages definitely can work fine, if it's kept in check unlike before. so something like 100 Shield and 50 Armor + 25% of each, modified by Power Strength.
never reaches silly amounts even if you pile lots of Power Strength. even if you somehow found a way to make max Power Strength work (which you can't, especially now), still only 74.25% of Shield/Armor.
and then take like, 10% of current Health/Shields or something.

especially since Polarize is now expensive.
also more Shrapnel! Crush too, more Shrapnel! moreeeee. even let Weapons create Shrapnel (Mag only).

 

basically it's okay for things to have a scaling factor as long as it just allows Abilities to always do something and be somewhat useful, rather than letting you nuke ad infinitum.

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

... that's not even what stealth nerf means. Of all of the changes she received, this was the most important one they forgot to mention entirely, either in the Workshop, example playthroughs on the dev build, and (cementing the definition of stealth nerf) the patch notes.

 I see now that that that detail was omitted in the original OP (and whose addition appears to be the one and only edit made to that OP, possibly in response to "stealth nerf" posts which themselves appear to have been deleted.)  DE continues to fail so spectacularly at PR, which confounds me still.  Misunderstandings, ho!

 

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

Side-grade. It affects new enemies without having to re-cast, but it affects most enemies slower. That alone was enough justification for further changes to MPrime to stop there. (... nerfs to how it murders PC performance aside.)

 Whether or not one form of application is superior to the other is debatable but it's hard to deny that if SP remained a guaranteed-kill power, it would be very simple to just cast it and wait for everything on the tile to be killed by the expanding field.  All missions trivialized by SP would still be trivialized; some less effectively and some more effectively.

 

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

Not completely accurate. DE powercreeped weapons in response to the original damage model, which had all enemies gaining the benefits of exponential increases to EHP from a combination of health, shields and armor, on top of upscaling damage. While the Damage 2.0 model mitigated this by addressing the distribution of health types, it did not eliminate it completely. Since then, it's been batted in both directions.

"Power creep" alone only works as a catch-all counterargument if it works towards achieving a balance. In Warframe's case, the power creep extends in both directions, but we've yet to see any progress made to flatten enemies' scaling so that a player's flat-damage effects can retain relevance. While the change does need to be made eventually, player power changes can come in any hotfix, where enemy systems changes await major updates. It doesn't make sense to pre-emptively adjust a power to function in a post-power creep state we haven't yet reached in the game; otherwise we end up with a case like Silence, "it'll be a good ability once we make the necessary changes to the rest of the game".

Energy is a more precious and rare resource than ammo is. Meanwhile, energy has more uses than ammo does: damage powers, utility powers, Channeling, Quick Thinking, etc. That's why the call is generally for Warframes whose powers offer a utility that weapons cannot duplicate on their own; why should I spend energy on an attack that simply deals the same damage as a bullet, when I can use that energy to amplify my next dozen bullets?

 The weapon powercreep I'm referring to began after Damage 2.0 dropped, with the release of weapons like Boltor Prime and Amprex (remember when top-tier weapons at least had some downside?) and has been mounting in ebbs and flows pretty steadily since then. In the times immediately after Damage 2.0, weapons mainly differed as side-grades and cosmetic/mechanical differences, and weapon tiers were not as explicit.  There were outliers like Soma, Synapse (lol remember that one?,) Ogris/Penta/Stug, Phage, etc, but they were not orders of magnitude stronger than the weapons they superseded and all had gimmicks or downsides that encouraged mastery and at least partially counter-weighed their advantages. 

 

As for powercreep going both ways, that's partially true.  

Player options have expanded tremendously since Damage 2.0 (which was the last large-scale attempt at game balance and was at least partially successful for a while,) particularly due to weapon powercreep, but also due to the proliferation of Corrupted mods and meta strategies (I use this word loosely, since much of this was spread through reddit and build guides, and much of the meta is manifested as an uninformed cargo cult.)  

On the other side, enemy powercreep is mainly in the form of more content that includes level 50-100+ enemies (Sorties/Raids, higher demand for endless Void farming due to Baro) and the advent of T4 Void missions, which apply Nightmare mode's x3 damage modifier to all enemies.  There are also some new enemy types (Nullifiers, Sapping Ospreys, Comba/Scrambus, Drahk and Hyekka masters, dunking powerfists, and Eximus in general) that have appeared (partially in response to Corrupted mod-fueled powerspam,) but these all only become problematic (the faint-of-heart might say "unfair") at levels that would have been considered well-into postgame in the initial post-Damage 2.0 days. 

 

The gameplay that has resulted from this powercreep on both player and enemy sides has culminated in Sortie/Raid/T4 content where you have to abuse gimmicks (mass CC, invisibility, invulnerability, automated mass-killing) in order to trivialize enemies of any level, supported by the latest tiers of weaponry (Tonkor, Syndicate primaries, post-ShadowDebt melee/crit weapons) that continue to allow players to kill steadily well past the levels of regular content.  This makes core gameplay irrelevant at all stages of the game, and also creates a profitable addiction for DE that makes it harder and harder to change for the better due to the risk of backlash (their PR isn't helping.)  I think we both agree about this (alongside many of this forum's most prolific contributors.)

Where we disagree is in the implementation of change.  I'm totally OK with piecemeal implementation.  Even if the game becomes downright unplayable for a while, I would be able to stomach it for the sake of the future.  A totally piecemeal move toward a "Damage 3.0" would probably cause a lot of resentment and ragequits, but it would still be better than the "nothing" that we've had for the past year+.  Part of me hopes that the shrill voice that embraces the current state of the game on the forums is overblown, and that DE could proceed without fearing their responses.  Whether it's sweeping or piecemeal, I think we need more frequent and more impactful change from DE.  The game is still in beta after all; treating us as testers (as they did several years ago with Damage 2.0) could bring this game to a balanced release state that accommodates a wide variety of playstyles and players.

 

IMO, powers should be an alternative and enhancer to gun/sword play, but should not be the focus of the game and should not be necessary to complete missions.  Energy economy (and most aspects of powers, really) was also turned on its head with the advent of Corrupted mods and the problem has only gotten worse as Large restores, Channeled powers, proliferation of the EV meta, and Zenurik have come around.

 

IMO Warframe should be about freedom of choice/expression, with most options as sidegrades and with meaningful trade-offs and niches that allow them to shine but not dominate.  What was once a game about customizing your experience, exploring new options, and having fun in a great game engine is now a race to the highest damage, the most exploitability, and a soulless grind that cuts meaningful gameplay out of the equation.  #MakeWarframeGreatAgain; sorry for the wall of text.

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

Have some faith, RP. When have I ever here?

I know you to be an upstanding poster despite our frequent differences in opinion.  This part of the post was directed more at those who would jump into the discussion with these fallacies.

Edited May 28, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

 I see now that that that detail was omitted in the original OP (and whose addition appears to be the one and only edit made to that OP, possibly in response to "stealth nerf" posts which themselves appear to have been deleted.)  DE continues to fail so spectacularly at PR, which confounds me still.  Misunderstandings, ho!

 

 Whether or not one form of application is superior to the other is debatable but it's hard to deny that if SP remained a guaranteed-kill power, it would be very simple to just cast it and wait for everything on the tile to be killed by the expanding field.  All missions trivialized by SP would still be trivialized; some less effectively and some more effectively.

 

 The weapon powercreep I'm referring to began after Damage 2.0 dropped, with the release of weapons like Boltor Prime and Amprex (remember when top-tier weapons at least had some downside?) and has been mounting in ebbs and flows pretty steadily since then. In the times immediately after Damage 2.0, weapons mainly differed as side-grades and cosmetic/mechanical differences, and weapon tiers were not as explicit.  There were outliers like Soma, Synapse (lol remember that one?,) Ogris/Penta/Stug, Phage, etc, but they were not orders of magnitude stronger than the weapons they superseded and all had gimmicks or downsides that encouraged mastery and at least partially counter-weighed their advantages. 

 

As for powercreep going both ways, that's partially true.  

Player options have expanded tremendously since Damage 2.0 (which was the last large-scale attempt at game balance and was at least partially successful for a while,) particularly due to weapon powercreep, but also due to the proliferation of Corrupted mods and meta strategies (I use this word loosely, since much of this was spread through reddit and build guides, and much of the meta is manifested as an uninformed cargo cult.)  

On the other side, enemy powercreep is mainly in the form of more content that includes level 50-100+ enemies (Sorties/Raids, higher demand for endless Void farming due to Baro) and the advent of T4 Void missions, which apply Nightmare mode's x3 damage modifier to all enemies.  There are also some new enemy types (Nullifiers, Sapping Ospreys, Comba/Scrambus, Drahk and Hyekka masters, dunking powerfists, and Eximus in general) that have appeared (partially in response to Corrupted mod-fueled powerspam,) but these all only become problematic (the faint-of-heart might say "unfair") at levels that would have been considered well-into postgame in the initial post-Damage 2.0 days. 

 

The gameplay that has resulted from this powercreep on both player and enemy sides has culminated in Sortie/Raid/T4 content where you have to abuse gimmicks (mass CC, invisibility, invulnerability, automated mass-killing) in order to trivialize enemies of any level, supported by the latest tiers of weaponry (Tonkor, Syndicate primaries, post-ShadowDebt melee/crit weapons) that continue to allow players to kill steadily well past the levels of regular content.  This makes core gameplay irrelevant at all stages of the game, and also creates a profitable addiction for DE that makes it harder and harder to change for the better due to the risk of backlash (their PR isn't helping.)  I think we both agree about this (alongside many of this forum's most prolific contributors.)

Where we disagree is in the implementation of change.  I'm totally OK with piecemeal implementation.  Even if the game becomes downright unplayable for a while, I would be able to stomach it for the sake of the future.  A totally piecemeal move toward a "Damage 3.0" would probably cause a lot of resentment and ragequits, but it would still be better than the "nothing" that we've had for the past year+.  Part of me hopes that the shrill voice that embraces the current state of the game on the forums is overblown, and that DE could proceed without fearing their responses.  Whether it's sweeping or piecemeal, I think we need more frequent and more impactful change from DE.  The game is still in beta after all; treating us as testers (as they did several years ago with Damage 2.0) could bring this game to a balanced release state that accommodates a wide variety of playstyles and players.

 

IMO, powers should be an alternative and enhancer to gun/sword play, but should not be the focus of the game and should not be necessary to complete missions.  Energy economy (and most aspects of powers, really) was also turned on its head with the advent of Corrupted mods and the problem has only gotten worse as Large restores, Channeled powers, proliferation of the EV meta, and Zenurik have come around.

 

IMO Warframe should be about freedom of choice/expression, with most options as sidegrades and with meaningful trade-offs and niches that allow them to shine but not dominate.  What was once a game about customizing your experience, exploring new options, and having fun in a great game engine is now a race to the highest damage, the most exploitability, and a soulless grind that cuts meaningful gameplay out of the equation.  #MakeWarframeGreatAgain; sorry for the wall of text.

I know you to be an upstanding poster despite our frequent differences in opinion.  This part of the post was directed more at those who would jump into the discussion with these fallacies.

couldn't of said it any better myself. with the volt rework, most people are having problems with volt's energy economy with RES (riot electric shield - the abbreviation for it) and mod scaling so thank you sir for enlightening me on this game's history and allowing me to reflect on it. as a consequence, people are having a hard time with volt without the use on energy regen methods like EV, zenurik etc. I hope this will be addressed so that volt will be more reliant on his abilities considering DE is still taking the "alternative to gun play theme".

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Archwizard]

Now that I think about it... Polarize might be redeemable for Corpus missions if it just guaranteed an extended Magnetic proc to affected enemies...

It's no "nuke every shield nearby", but reducing everyone's shields by 80% and then letting them take flat damage from all nearby shields isn't nothing either, and it is more balanced since it's an effect that everyone technically has access to (where now, Magnetic proccing enemies would increase its effectiveness rather than reducing it like before). It keeps a scaling function and introduces something that Mag's kit (surprisingly) lacks, while emphasizing her role against Corpus rather than trading it to be a little better against everything else.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

34 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Now that I think about it... Polarize might be redeemable for Corpus missions if it just guaranteed an extended Magnetic proc to affected enemies...

It's no "nuke every shield nearby", but reducing everyone's shields by 80% and then letting them take flat damage from all nearby shields isn't nothing either, and it is more balanced since it's an effect that everyone technically has access to (where now, Magnetic proccing enemies would increase its effectiveness rather than reducing it like before). It keeps a scaling function and introduces something that Mag's kit (surprisingly) lacks, while emphasizing her role against Corpus rather than trading it to be a little better against everything else.

that would work, sure. still want Damage related things from Abilities to have some Percentage, just so that you always feel and know that you're doing something.

an extra long Magnetic Status is convenient as well since Pull deals extra Damage to Enemies under Magnetic Status. more synergy, woo.

[RealPandemonium]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

that would work, sure. still want Damage related things from Abilities to have some Percentage, just so that you always feel and know that you're doing something.

Most of the time if your powers are doing no damage, you're in overtuned content.  No amount of bandaids will fix that.  The same holds true with the ability to wipe the star chart with ability spam.  

[taiiat]

21 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Most of the time if your powers are doing no damage, you're in overtuned content.

it's still not that hard of a situation to find yourself in, well within working Level Ranges of the game.

[RealPandemonium]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's still not that hard of a situation to find yourself in, well within working Level Ranges of the game.

Mostly in endless missions and Sortie/Raid, yes.  Certain defense modifiers also exacerbate this issue in some cases, and armor scaling makes most damage sources irrelevant after ~level 45.  Adding percentages is not going to bring us closer to a solution, though, and would only be more mess to clean up when the time did come.  

[Aquasurge]

13 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Mostly in endless missions and Sortie/Raid, yes.  Certain defense modifiers also exacerbate this issue in some cases, and armor scaling makes most damage sources irrelevant after ~level 45.  Adding percentages is not going to bring us closer to a solution, though, and would only be more mess to clean up when the time did come.  

so true

[--Q--uaint]

On 5/27/2016 at 10:57 PM, RealPandemonium said:

IMO, powers should be an alternative and enhancer to gun/sword play

If they are to be an alternative to gunplay, that means they need to be spammable. The powers we have are rather OP when spammed. Thoughts?

On 5/27/2016 at 10:57 PM, RealPandemonium said:

should not be the focus of the game and should not be necessary to complete missions

I agree that they shouldn’t be necessary to complete missions; that would restrict freedom of choice. However, I think powers should be at least a major focus of the game, since they and Parkour 2.0 are what really sets the game apart.

[Aquasurge]

1 hour ago, ChronoEclipse said:

If they are to be an alternative to gunplay, that means they need to be spammable. The powers we have are rather OP when spammed. Thoughts?

umm... gateway for negetive efficiency builds without using an ev trin?

[--Q--uaint]

50 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

umm… gateway for negetive efficiency builds without using an ev trin?

Would you mind rephrasing that? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Some random thoughts for Mirage, inspired by this post: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/652655-mirage-rework-concept/?do=findComment&comment=7309907

Her #1 and #2 could be swapped, in exchange for HoM getting all five clones able to attack at once. I think this is an unlikely change, though.

 

Sleight of Hand is replaced with Glimmering Veil. It is a channeled Quiver-style ability, having two modes (dark and light). Dark-mode blinds any enemy who damages you (or hits your HOM clones?) for 2/3/4/5 seconds, and light-mode has a 10/15/20/25% reload speed boost and SoH’s effects on everything in a 4/6/8/10 meter radius.
The channeled cost would be low, and active dark/light modes would force dark/light effects on her other skills.

Prism now begins emitting beams as soon as the cast animation starts. Damage type while in the light is Fire, damage type while in the dark is Radiation. Proc chance is 10% in light and 25% in the dark per second, scaling with Power Strength.

Edited May 29, 2016 by ChronoEclipse