Physx On An Amd Radeon Graphics Card! Is It Possible?

[sufu5a]

Hi guys,

I've got two AMD Radeon HD 7800 sapphire crossfired and I was curious if it is possible for me to get those pretty particle effects in warframe...

[Vorigan]

No, PhysX is only supported by Nvidia cards.

[Deservate]

I heard some stories where people managed to run it on their cpus, even with an Amd gpu, but it really melts it down and you will need a real monster pc if you want to do that.

Other than that, no. Not possible. Dont search any farther. Its impossible.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Deservate

[Fretful1]

Yes, it has a way. I googled it few weeks ago, but my pc isn't that good so I didn't try it. And sorry I don't remember how to do it.

[CptFaustas]

Yes, it has a way. I googled it few weeks ago, but my pc isn't that good so I didn't try it. And sorry I don't remember how to do it.

You use your CPU for physX. Not worth it.

[Fretful1]

You use your CPU for physX. Not worth it.

Yeah, this is pretty much why I didn't try it.

[taiiat]

i was gonna write something up, but... i'm feeling lazy. so 13 can write it for me! :D

 

 

AMD cards cannot run Apex PhysX effects because they don't have CUDA cores (there are special hardware based instructions within CUDA cores that Apex PhysX effects utilize to process data, operational codes and values which execute at the hardware logic level). Basically, Apex PhysX effects require specialized hardware to run, hardware that only Nvidia has the patents for.

 

Other games that have PhysX special effects are almost always executed on the CPU (a lot of these effects can be run easily on the current generation of CPUs), unless an Nvidia card is present in which case a lot of the workload is offloaded to the GPU; these effects are software based effects.

 

The main effect that Warframe uses, however, is Turbulence Fields, an effect which requires a massive quantity of floating point operations--specifically floating point multiplies, divides, roots and exponent functions. Although these can be processed by a CPU, they can't be processed well enough or fast enough to compete with CUDA cores. In essence, the CPU is a "Jack of all trades, master of none" while the GPU, by default, is designed to handle and process complex arithmetic functions at a high speed for processing vector graphics... as it turns out the same arithmetic functions used in the processing of graphics can also apply to physics simulations (ergo Apex PhysX effects).

 

It's also for this same reason that many high-performance-computers (HPCs) and Supercomputers are essentially a huge array of GPUs managed by a processor.

[Jathniel]

It will put a serious load on your AMD system's CPU. So unless you have a beast AMD system and CPU, don't do it.

You're not missing out on much anyway.

When I use my Loki, and I first activate Invisibility, the particles from the PhysX obscure my vision temporarily. So in serious high-end missions, I have it off anyway.

Not really worth it, and this is coming from an i7 and sli user.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Jathniel

[Rathie]

Don't try it,

I have a AMD HD 7770 2Gb variant, with a Nvidia GC connected as well to see if I can trick it into running Physx (Because the particles are so much better).

In the end I managed to get it to run ,after 2 new OS installs due to having both a Nvidia and a AMD running at the same time. It strained the AMD GPU by a great amount, due to the card not being capable of it your FPS will lower and the game may constantly crash.( EDIT : I'm not actually sure if it was running on the AMD or the Nvidia)

As much as I love having PhysX, It is not worth destroying your AMD card over. 

So the answer is, yes its possible.

But it raises another question, would you risk your Graphics cards over it?

EDIT: Corrected

Edited March 22, 2014 by Rathie

[Scherhardt]

Don't kill your rig.

[Morwyn]

PhysX on non-Nvidia cards works fine, it simply uses the CPU, not the GPU.

[RoboDoge]

Can be done, but i dont know if DE has any evil deal with Nvidia.

[Abenoki]

No it cannot work properly with AMD cards (even if you manage to force it on CPU in some way)

 

You could try Hybridz or any sorta hybrid build and will find it doesnt work because Warframe uses the latest version of Physx and afaik efforts on developing hybrid setups and the software needed for it have stopped as Nvidia continues to make it more and more difficult. 

 

Now to clarify, Physx is still being used on your system as from what i know the physics API used for warframe is physx so any cloth,particles, etc. you see are done with it BUT because you do not have an Nvidia GPU your rig will not support advanced features such as APEX Turbulence and more advanced fluid dynamics and cloth simulation that Physx offers when on GPU.

 

 

tl:dr the answer is a large and resounding NO and this has been explained many times here and other places, they have a contract with Nvidia and no they cannot port it to AMD GPU.

 

 

PS. I looked into the ALOT as I run a Crossfire 6970 setup and was gonna add a GTS250 for physx but unfortunately as i stated it is a lost cause.

 

 

EDIT: Also before its brought up the "oh well PS4 has physx"...no it doesnt, not like you have with an Nvidia card. PS4 runs physx on CPU, its a watered down version with some aspect of APEX in a minimal form because rendering APEX in its entirety isnt workable on CPU.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Ecotox

[sufu5a]

So I guess, it's a lost cause... thanks for the responses guys

[Warriorrogue]

Physx works to a extent in some games, if you access the setting files.. However, I don't think WF is one.

[Ashnal]

Don't try it,

I have a AMD HD 7770 2Gb variant, with a Nvidia GC connected as well to see if I can trick it into running Physx (Because the particles are so much better).

In the end I managed to get it to run ,after 2 new OS installs due to having both a Nvidia and a AMD running at the same time. It strained the AMD GPU by a great amount, due to the card not being capable of it your FPS will lower and the game may constantly crash.( EDIT : I'm not actually sure if it was running on the AMD or the Nvidia)

As much as I love having PhysX, It is not worth destroying your AMD card over. 

So the answer is, yes its possible.

But it raises another question, would you risk your Graphics cards over it?

EDIT: Corrected

Uhm .... you can't actually run phsx on an AMD card, period. SO it is impossible to damage your card with it.

 

However, you can still run physx on a system that has an AMD card in it. In that case there's two options. Either you tweak the settings ina  specific way to run on the CPU, which is terribly inefficient and performs like crap, resulting in poor fps in games. The other option is getting an nvidia card and designating it as a physx only card alongside of your AMD card. That method requires some specific configuration and is a pain to set up.

 

So in short, you won't destroy anything trying it, or cause any harm to your hardware. You'll just get crap performance unless you're running an amd and nvidia card side by side with the proper set up.

[Rathie]

Uhm .... you can't actually run phsx on an AMD card, period. SO it is impossible to damage your card with it.

 

However, you can still run physx on a system that has an AMD card in it. In that case there's two options. Either you tweak the settings ina  specific way to run on the CPU, which is terribly inefficient and performs like crap, resulting in poor fps in games. The other option is getting an nvidia card and designating it as a physx only card alongside of your AMD card. That method requires some specific configuration and is a pain to set up.

 

So in short, you won't destroy anything trying it, or cause any harm to your hardware. You'll just get crap performance unless you're running an amd and nvidia card side by side with the proper set up.

It is quiet possible ,but it all depends on what methods you go through to attempt to get PhysX running.

There was a page on a hardware forum I used to go on where the OP damaged his AMD GC in a attempt to install a modified Nvidia driver to overwrite the AMD Driver. - I'll see if I can find the link it. I'm not saying that its a given that it'll break, but depending on what you do to it, it will. 

 

Running it as with the processor, have you done it? I'm curious as to if it requires a certain chipset or whether it requires changes.

[Cpt_Atroxium]

Warframe only uses Nvidia technology. No AMD, no CPU. Aphex from nvidia only runs on the CUDA cores. Impossible to convert this to CPU on current systems. Take it like this, you bought a diesel car, you aint gonna fuel that with gasoline are ya? If I were you, I'd sell my diesel truck and get a BMW gasoline car. Much more power under the hood ;) And the georgeouz physx... mmmhhm. Makes you want to regret AMD doesnt it? Im not here to start a "blah better blah dis dat" End of story, Warframe is Nvidia software bundle. I still have a old HD 6990 in my system from AMD/ATi. I  got a GTX 780 for warframe and must I say. Best choice I've done in a while. Then prices dropped almost 50%... So it's worth it =D 

[Morwyn]

So much misinformation in this thread.

 

Read for yourself how to run PhysX on AMD. While it's true that WF uses APEX, a proprietary NVidia architecture that can only be run on their GPUs so it leaves you with two possible options. The first is http://physxinfo.com/wiki/Hybrid_PhysX

 

And the second, and I'm not certain of this, but there used to be a dedicated PhysX card on the market, an addon that you could install that would handle PhysX instructions. I don't know if that is still an option but it may be worth looking into.

 

Oh, and this.

[Ashnal]

It is quiet possible ,but it all depends on what methods you go through to attempt to get PhysX running.

There was a page on a hardware forum I used to go on where the OP damaged his AMD GC in a attempt to install a modified Nvidia driver to overwrite the AMD Driver. - I'll see if I can find the link it. I'm not saying that its a given that it'll break, but depending on what you do to it, it will. 

 

Running it as with the processor, have you done it? I'm curious as to if it requires a certain chipset or whether it requires changes.

Well now that's going into something completely different. You're no longer talking getting a program to run on hardware that's already functioning properly, but instead trying to use completely incompatible drivers with a piece of hardware they aren't designed for. There are dangers to that, but I wouldn't classify that under the realm of physx causing you to damage your AMD GPU, rather installing incompatible drivers causing the damage.

 

As for the CPU thing, the only experience I have with it was with my old computer, which had an HD 5870 mobility card, and an i5 2.2 GHz. I tried running physx in Borderlands 2, which implements it on the CPU for AMD cards, and my framerate tanked to unplayable whenever any of the effects appeared. I've heard there are ways to force CPU rendering for any game, but I don't know the details, nor do I think it would be worth it unless you have a top of the line CPU and you're willing to risk the time for an unknown result.

[eksby]

Too bad, I was wondering this as well. Guess we won't be able to see those pretty particles. :(

[Kloaked]

Nvidia has since locked down the "dedicated PhysX card" if you're primarily using an AMD card. So no, it's not possible anymore. Plus, even if you could get PhsyX to run on your CPU, it will destroy your performance.

 

 

 

But if you really love this game, getting a good Nvidia card is worth it. The PhysX effects in Warframe adds a lot to the experience, despite what all the nay-sayers in the comments before me say.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Kloaked

[Abenoki]

So much misinformation in this thread.

 

Read for yourself how to run PhysX on AMD. While it's true that WF uses APEX, a proprietary NVidia architecture that can only be run on their GPUs so it leaves you with two possible options. The first is http://physxinfo.com/wiki/Hybrid_PhysX

 

And the second, and I'm not certain of this, but there used to be a dedicated PhysX card on the market, an addon that you could install that would handle PhysX instructions. I don't know if that is still an option but it may be worth looking into.

 

Oh, and this.

 

 

hybrid physx doesnt work in warframe sorry to tell you. It doesnt work with the latest version of Physx that warframe uses and afaik there are no plans to continue support. Hybrid physx hasnt been updated in a while (last working version was 2011), hybridz replaced it and thats abandoned now too afaik.

Also the Ageia physx card is no longer supported and will not work with Physx, hasnt worked with it since physx came out or shortly after. There are no other dedicated physx cards on the market and Nvidia has NO plans to suport AMD hardware in any way and actively make it harder to run the 2 together with each new driver release. 

 

Quote from Hybridz official thread

 

P10-17000 4 February 2014, 22:22

WarFrame uses PhysX3 and therefore never worked. BTW step 4 simply states to remove PhysXDevice.dll, but if you want to also improve performance you can remove some of the older files in the game's directory so it will use the newer files installed in your system(ProgFiles) folder by the latest PhysX.MSI driver installer that you ran.

All drivers are underlined in the OP:

Use the latest Catalyst Beta (14.1b1.6 as of this posting)

PhysX v9.13.0725

ForceWare v320.49(or stick to only 314.22 if you have the newer GK-series of the GeForce600+)

There is no reason for a changelog as all development on this mod is now officially frozen/completed. They have defeated my hack at this point, it's too difficult/I am too busy to continue, but it was good while it lasted. My recommendation is that if Mantle isn't awesome(both revolutionary and worth more than PhysX, which I doubt --does anybody know yet?) then just buy nVidia next time I guess(They only rip you off with the top of the line cards.)

 

 

 

Let me just highlight the important parts for people

 

WarFrame uses PhysX3 and therefore never worked

 

There is no reason for a changelog as all development on this mod is now officially frozen/completed. They have defeated my hack at this point, it's too difficult/I am too busy to continue, but it was good while it lasted.

 

 

Once again, AMD + Physx = NO 

dont even bother unless the game supports it on CPU, then still its questionable to even bother

 

PLEASE, next time this is asked link them here to save the miss info and time

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by Ecotox