Toning Down Soma

[sorq]

Use other weapons if you dislike it.

No one will give you a prize for suggesting a nerf.

There's so many weapons in the game.

 

Lastly, there's a reason why Soma is only available at mastery rank 6.

[Monolake]

the problem is its accuracy. there is no other weapon with that kind of accuracy RoF AND crit insanity. the grakata works under the same idea that it relies on crits to meet its full potential but it pales in comparison to the soma which is WAY more accurate then even the gorgon in terms of LMG's. twin vipers also utilize crits to do real dmg but doesn't have the accuracy of the lato while it does it.

 

the other thing is... I don't think crits are being calculated right. I have had moments with my dex furis where I went from 71 dmg to 745 or some insane number that's way higher then 2X normal dmg even if crits ignore armor.

 

 

headshot crits are 4x  so yeah making top DPS weapons crit weapons ( Synapse 100% crit) is even more OP than it seems at a glance 

Normal hit - 17, normal headshot - 35, crit - 103, headshot crit - 412!

 

 

 

Poor Soma. So much hate... Why?

Easy to get, easy to max coming with 2 Vs, makes the game too easy for very little effort

Edited March 30, 2014 by Monolake

[Chupacabra]

> People that say the Latron Prime has higher DPS than the Soma.... well technically yes but.... guys that's pretty hard for a human to pull off. TronP isn't the same style weapon as the Soma.

 

>Boltor Prime though it's innate DPS is much higher, the soma beat it's head shot DPS, which I think is a good place for it to be since consistently getting headshots can be rather challenging and means the player using it isn't just spraying and praying.

 

> Just briefly looking over @DPS frame There are 2 rifles (though as I said the latron prime doesn't really count), 3 shotguns, and 13 pistols that have higher "DPS" than the soma, though most of which have radically different play styles associated with them. The soma's place is an accuracy rewarding automatic rifle, and I believe it's place there should remain unchanged imo as Headshot DPS isn't something that can be maintained very easily.

 

>Though I will say, the rifle weapon balance is definitely lacking, weapons that should definitely have higher non headshot DPS:

-Synapse should be significantly higher to outweigh it's range limitation

-Supra should be significantly higher to outweigh it's accuracy limitation

-Gorgon/Wraith

-Maybe even the Grakata given it's wackiness. 

 

The only thing that I think is actually wrong when I look at the Soma's stats is it's clip size, that's the only area I'd say a nerf would be reasonable, but that's just me.

[XRAY0128]

i'll never understand why people keep wanting to nerf things. if you think something is to powerful, then don't use it...simple as that. there are plenty of people that do like it being strong and don't want it changed. why should they have to give up their fun just to make you happy?

Its an online game... "Not using it" does nothing to stop everyone else from doing so. 

[OblivionNecroninja]

My suggestion: Take away its puncture damage and dump it into slash.

Edited March 30, 2014 by OblivionNecroninja

[MirageKnight]

Here's an even better nerf. Drop the magazine capacity to 50-60 rounds.

[(PSN)atpbx]

If anything, the Soma needs it wind up time taken away.

It's funny, the Soma is so over powered, yet all I see people running in T3 survival is Dread and Paris prime.

[theammostore]

i'll never understand why people keep wanting to nerf things. if you think something is to powerful, then don't use it...simple as that. there are plenty of people that do like it being strong and don't want it changed. why should they have to give up their fun just to make you happy?

Because I'm not having fun when they simply mow down a couple enemies before I can even do one or two shots. Ooooo yay, I get Affinity. Leveling up isn't fun, fighting and shooting things is fun.

[sanj66]

You clearly need to browse around the forums more. Most of these "nerfers" have used the weapon (maxed, potato'd, modded) and are bored by how they trivialize the game.

 

The Soma is not difficult to obtain in any way, shape, or form. "Jealousy" is completely invalid.

and the penta? so what if they have the weapon maxed and modded etc does it justify their calls, no it does not, the soma is good at where it is, as it isnt even the top amongst guns, and not to mention it is highly ammo efficient, if soma is op, then what about a penta, ogris, synapse, bows, boltor prime etc? and dont talk about mutagen masses or detonite injectors as you get those free in invasions now, the hardest is the boltor prime due to its bp alone all other parts drop easy, its funny that people always call for a nerf on a certain item, yet they are sitting on an even better item and playing advocate of balance and fairness.

[sanj66]

headshot crits are 4x  so yeah making top DPS weapons crit weapons ( Synapse 100% crit) is even more OP than it seems at a glance 

Normal hit - 17, normal headshot - 35, crit - 103, headshot crit - 412!

 

 

 

Easy to get, easy to max coming with 2 Vs, makes the game too easy for very little effort

still due to its nature you need to drop 4 forma into it even with the 2 v's.

[Monolake]

still due to its nature you need to drop 4 forma into it even with the 2 v's.

you dont need to forma it at all for all the 'normal' content, only if you want to break records in the endless missions, while Synapse needs 2 formas just to be built +2 formas to be good (dont forget 3 times levelling up)

Edited March 31, 2014 by Monolake

[shut]

and the penta? so what if they have the weapon maxed and modded etc does it justify their calls, no it does not, the soma is good at where it is, as it isnt even the top amongst guns, and not to mention it is highly ammo efficient, if soma is op, then what about a penta, ogris, synapse, bows, boltor prime etc? and dont talk about mutagen masses or detonite injectors as you get those free in invasions now, the hardest is the boltor prime due to its bp alone all other parts drop easy, its funny that people always call for a nerf on a certain item, yet they are sitting on an even better item and playing advocate of balance and fairness.

 

I can't even begin to count the number of false assumptions made in this post.

[NikolaiLev]

Making it behave like a normal AR will change how it behaves, and that should generally be avoided, as it's more of a "change for the sake of change" than anything.

 

The Soma (and other weapons, like the Synapse and Latron Prime) need crit nerfs to bring them in line with the majority of weapons.  In fact, I'm a strong proponent of removing crit altogether as it doesn't really add anything to the game and just causes problems.  But that's another thread.

 

After decreasing its crit chance and damage, its base damage should be increased slightly, so that the total DPS is far lower but the weapon isn't unusable unmodded.  Basically, it should be normalized.

 

I'd be fine with lowering its magazine capacity to 20 to match the model, but that's unfortunately a very radical change.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

and the penta? so what if they have the weapon maxed and modded etc does it justify their calls, no it does not, the soma is good at where it is, as it isnt even the top amongst guns, and not to mention it is highly ammo efficient, if soma is op, then what about a penta, ogris, synapse, bows, boltor prime etc? and dont talk about mutagen masses or detonite injectors as you get those free in invasions now, the hardest is the boltor prime due to its bp alone all other parts drop easy, its funny that people always call for a nerf on a certain item, yet they are sitting on an even better item and playing advocate of balance and fairness.

Those weapons have noticeable drawbacks, all the time. Penta/Ogris have the potential to easily kill yourself if you're careless or I decide to stand in front as you as a Loki (HUE~). Synapse has a very limited range that requires you to be able to close in well. Bows have a very slow fire rate and are notably more difficult to headshot with at a range against moving targets and aren't the greatest at quickly mowing down spreads of mobs, and are weird at close range. Boltor Prime has probably the least noticeable drawback in its travel time, but at least it is there.

 

In normal level games, the Soma literally has no drawbacks. The ammo inefficiency is unnoticeable at that level.

 

See, the catch is where DE wants to balance around. DE has said they do not balance for endless survival and defense, and that they aim at around level 40 as their end game. In which case, the Soma is a very powerful, and at that point, still very ammo efficient weapon, with virtually no draw back and the ability to easily sweep entire rooms at an insane rate with a huge mag, high accuracy, and fast reload. So from that perspective, it's overpowered. If you go beyond that, which is where many players actually really start to consider the power and balance of weapons, to level 100+ and so on, then the weaknesses and failures of the Soma become much more obvious, and there is nothing notably powerful or out of line with the Soma at all. But yet, that is outside of what DE had claimed as their "end game", so the in the past the validity of that argument is questionable.

 

It's like 4 spam. At lower and middle levels, you can annihilate everything with 4 spam so easily and quickly that people can't get a chance to shoot if they're slower or lesser equipped. Soma at these levels is similar. As you go into higher level territory, outside of DE's supposed balance range, you'll find that MPrime no longer chain kills entire rooms and that it's much more useful for the debuff than the actual damage, or that Stomp/Miasma are only good for the CC. Soma still kills stuff fine, but its ammo inefficiency starts becoming more noticeable as time continues, until eventually it becomes a problem.

 

Moving forward, I don't think the Soma will be an issue as they will definitely be releasing higher level stuff later. Which is one reason why I don't worry about it.

[Axterix13]

Boltor Prime has probably the least noticeable drawback in its travel time, but at least it is there.

 

In normal level games, the Soma literally has no drawbacks. The ammo inefficiency is unnoticeable at that level.

Worth noting that the Boltor Prime also has an extra benefit with its ragdoll damage thing.  As far as power level goes, I put it slightly ahead of Soma personally, for typical use.

 

That list also misses Phage.  Could list limited range on that one, but it also has the ability to be a cone or a single beam, so like the Boltor Prime, has an additional advantage.  It is also way better in terms of ammo consumption.

 

And for Soma, it depends.  Before I had all the right mods, Soma had the ammo drawback.  I'd do Void tower exterminates and have to use my pistol because the ammo just wasn't there.  After a while, I just primarily used my pistol, from start to finish.  Of course, then I got Split Chamber and forma'd the Soma and the ammo issue went away.  One last multiplier too many.  But again, it goes to show the problem is the mods, not the weapon.  If you tried to balance Soma around it having a Catalyst and some Formas, people without the right mods would drain their ammo dry with ease.  For your typical player, ammo most likely is a concern with the Soma.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I'd do Void tower exterminates and have to use my pistol because the ammo just wasn't there.  After a while, I just primarily used my pistol, from start to finish.  Of course, then I got Split Chamber and forma'd the Soma and the ammo issue went away.  One last multiplier too many.  But again, it goes to show the problem is the mods, not the weapon.  If you tried to balance Soma around it having a Catalyst and some Formas, people without the right mods would drain their ammo dry with ease.  For your typical player, ammo most likely is a concern with the Soma.

I can do T3 exterminates solo with my Mk1-Braton (not even fully modded yet, 7/8 mods), and provided that I don't run into a particularly beefy type of leader (ex. Ice Heavy Gunner), I typically don't have ammo issues.

 

To Nightman, Thunderbolt quickly becomes pretty useless, which is why I don't care to include it.

 

But yes, mods and skills can help compensate for those drawbacks, which is how it's supposed to be.  But they still suffer those drawbacks at DE's supposed intended balance level. Soma does not, yet will have equal or greater performance for those levels, which is why the Soma seems like an issue, even though it is nothing special and even lackluster at higher levels that are outside the supposed balance levels.

[Hyunsai]

Well, I hardly see anyone using Soma anymore in the higher levels, so that makes a BUNCH of weapons needing some serious nerf.

 

Bring it on !

Edited March 31, 2014 by Hyunsai

[Sollet]

Oh look another one of these cry baby plz nerf Soma threads.

[LukeAura]

Soma's problem isn't so much with the Soma but critical mods in general. We can never have a decent crit based assault rifle because it will either amp damage to a ridiculous extreme with crit mods(Soma's problem), or they'll be worse than using elements. It's just the way damage stacks with crit.

Cutting it back a V polarity would also help reduce its effective level of power versus effort compared to other rifles without actually changing it.

Grakata goes from a Braton level of dps to nearly double it through crit. I think that explains the problem better than anything.

Edited March 31, 2014 by LukeAura

[xveganrox]

Because I'm not having fun when they simply mow down a couple enemies before I can even do one or two shots. Ooooo yay, I get Affinity. Leveling up isn't fun, fighting and shooting things is fun.

Beefing weapons won't change that. You should play solo or in a group that isn't randoms, THAT is the only thing that will fix that.

  

"Penta/Ogris have the potential to easily kill yourself if you're careless or I decide to stand in front as you as a Loki (HUE~)."

 

Shred

 

"Bows have a very slow fire rate and are notably more difficult to headshot with at a range against moving targets and aren't the greatest at quickly mowing down spreads of mobs"

 

Reload + Fire rate + Thunderbolt + leading targets.

 

Mods and skill can negate most of the issues with those, but the rest is correct.

 

Bows are really really terrible at this point for anything other than a fashion statement, and comparing them to Soma is just silly. The mere fact that you have to add three plus extra mods to deal with their inherent weaknesses (and even then only partially) shows how weak they are.

 

Well, I hardly see anyone using Soma anymore in the higher levels, so that makes a BUNCH of weapons needing some serious nerf.

 

Bring it on !

  

"To Nightman, Thunderbolt quickly becomes pretty useless, which is why I don't care to include it."

 

Once you get up to much higher levels yes, if you include Shred for more punch-through it can compensate for mobs some what. I haven't seen a Soma user at high end stuff for some time now, more than likely it's not a Soma issue but Crit issue.

I see a lot of people using Soma at high levels for everything but ODD. Sure, Boltor Prime and Burston Prime and Latron Prime were fun to level, but Soma is a weapon with basically no downsides, as OP says. I don't think a nerf is necessary though - every game has top-tier weapons.

[Pure]

lol pve is serious business.

[IIISTIXIII]

Soma's not too bad, honestly. The issue isn't in the base damage of the weapon, but in the absurd damage bonuses provided by mods.

 

A well-modded MK1-Braton can hold its own against a well-modded Soma just fine in T3 Defenses and the like. Both, however, trivialize all other game content, and that is the real issue here.

 

^ this.

 

The game has deeper issues with balance overall. And consequently challenge. Nerf/buff soma/latron p (or whatever) in relation to what? T3 def wave 30? 40? Seems like its balanced for something like that now, only so you can take down bullet sponges - which is a pretty mediocre way of introducing challenge btw.

 

Personally I find that I enjoy the gameplay the most when both me and my enemies can take each other down fairly quick. Can be approximated with gimping, or some nightmare modes for example. More intense and exciting, it kinda forces you to use some more tricks and skill since you cant just $&*^ around in the open. U need to be more of a ninja basically. I also think the basic missions outside of def and surv can be more meaningful that way..

[egregiousRac]

headshot crits are 4x  so yeah making top DPS weapons crit weapons ( Synapse 100% crit) is even more OP than it seems at a glance 

Normal hit - 17, normal headshot - 35, crit - 103, headshot crit - 412!

 

 

 

Easy to get, easy to max coming with 2 Vs, makes the game too easy for very little effort

Due to a lovely bug that DE has ignored for a very long time, if you were a client those headshots would be 824. Client's crit headshots are 8x damage, which further destroys any weapon that has lower crit rate.

 

The 4x multiplier alone makes the Soma still have higher DPS than the Latron Prime because it crits so much less often.

[Aishi]

They already balanced the Soma.

It's called the Karak :[

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Due to a lovely bug that DE has ignored for a very long time, if you were a client those headshots would be 824. Client's crit headshots are 8x damage, which further destroys any weapon that has lower crit rate.

 

The 4x multiplier alone makes the Soma still have higher DPS than the Latron Prime because it crits so much less often.

Do you mind getting me some screenshot proof of this? I've tried it with my Dread by letting my friend host me and comparing it to damage when I'm solo, and there was no difference in damage done. Tested on some level 1 Lancers using a build to do 29912 headshot crits, no difference between him hosting me and me solo.