Taxes...

[Triburos]

That's only if people decide to invade them though. Which currently there is no reason to except to force people to not use 0% rates.

Because the clan also has to sink money in to rail repair if we're assuming invasions, which means everyone's cut would be optimal at 0%, with no invasions, and just farming it themselves.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a dumb and need to you rephrase that, I don't quite catch on with what yer saying. Are you saying that because of solar rail damages, a taxing clan's battle pay would be on equal footing as a zero tax clan's due to the number of people simply preferring zero taxes fighting for them?

 

But in any case, zero tax rails just aren't going to be able to sustain themselves for long, even with their community base. If an opposing rail comes along with a much higher battle pay, the masses of the game are just going to gravitate towards them. It's the easiest thing to understand, after all.

[Agent_of_Change]

Team Greed supports 0% tax rails, Team Greed also has 0 problem with profiting at other peoples expense, Team Greed is not huggy feely we are rational and practical.

 

The fundamental concept at issue here is maximum personal gain and...well that's it.  Personal gain, PERIOD.  I don't care about the greater good, I don't care about sustainable rails, I care about getting when the gettings good.  I support 0% Tax rail, I encourage people to put up 0% tax rails, I will defend 0% tax rails, why?  Because 0% tax... pay attention.  Because of this I'm going to do my damnedest to get suckers  generous people to put up 0% rails, especially at the expense of those who would actually try to create something sustainable.  Why the hell would I care about whether or not the rail is sustainable, unless it is my rail it's not my problem.  If someone wants to put up a rail that will charge more I will encourage others to support the free rail, personally I won"t do those missions because the battle pay probably sucks and I don't work for free.  

 

Bottom line I want maximum gain, and I want others to pursue the same.  If people start going nuts with it, they will either get smacked down by people who care about doing so or the devs.

 

Either way I'm going to find a way to get paid while keeping as much as possible for myself, and the deep truth here is that not only am I not alone... I'm potentially in the majority.

 

GO TEAM GREED Two important rules: Never look a gift horse in the mouth, and never tell a fool who's paying you that he is a fool.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Agent_of_Change

[(NSW)LilVanu]

If you want loyalty, you won't get none from me if you take from me.

I don't care if I'm not rewarded battle pay on a 0% taxed solar rail. I'll fight for it because I feel I'm obligated to do it.

[Deidaku]

Maybe people aren't greedy? Maybe they want to do something nice for everyone? I detest that you are force feeding your opinion down our throats. What is your problem with having free transport from a generous clan? If it bugs you this much go to their dojo and give them a donation.

Warframe politics have begun >:)

[-BL4KH34RT-]

Its  ironic since tax day is coming up...

[(NSW)LilVanu]

Warframe politics have begun >:)

 

How are the poor warframe who can't afford to eat going to get food. Have you got any plans for the future MR Prime Minister?

[TrockBronze]

Why should I have to pay anything?

There will always be someone else willing to put up a new rail for free.

There wont actaully, with 0% you make nothing to keep your rail going let alone fund multiple ones. Those setting it at 0% may very well win out for a while, until those wanting a higher tax come by, smack them out of the way, and then they can't retake their sector due to obtaining no means of supporting it. 0% is a temporary win and looks good now, especially for those not bothering with building or supporting rails  or anything but it will not/can not last. already many have made costly mistakes with building too fast, too much, or contesting too quickly and cant support it, how will people support it down the line with no income when many can't do it already?

[Shackram]

Maybe people aren't greedy? Maybe they want to do something nice for everyone? I detest that you are force feeding your opinion down our throats. What is your problem with having free transport from a generous clan? If it bugs you this much go to their dojo and give them a donation.

 

Not all of them i guess. I had a laugh at clans that had 15% taxes on the rail offering 0 battle play after the conflict started.

 

Good luck with that!

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Paying faceless other players I don't know feels like supporting potential $&*^heads which I am far more likely to encounter in Warframe and any other online game than decent/friendly players. Tax free nodes not only display the generosity of the alliance owning it but also circumvents the risk of throwing money into the hands of idiots that would usually occupy a spot on my ignore list.

 

You need credits/resources to repair your rail and aren't jerks? Petition DE to make the treasury allow public donations of credits and recources. I'll gladly help out.

[-Krux-]

WARFRAME FOOD STAMPS FOR EVERYBODY!!!

 

[nefrai]

This Dark Sectors thing is already proving to be way more amusing then I first expected. Bring on the opinions, politics, and bad math! :D

 

We aren't going to know much about the true impact of tax vs no tax until a few battles play out, and clans/alliances find out the true cost of a rail. A large enough alliance may not need to tax, if they have enough players funding their alliance. Personally, I don't care either way. I will use rails based on where I want to go, not on their tax rate. Are you going to go to Venus if it has the only free rail, when the mobs start at lvl 8?

 

Speaking of levels...I think rails should have different costs. A rail for Venus and a rail for Pluto having the same repair costs seems a bit off (but may be simpler this way). Also some people may want to use 0% tax on lowbie rails, to help newbies.

[(NSW)LilVanu]

Paying faceless other players I don't know feels like supporting potential $&*^heads which I am far more likely to encounter in Warframe and any other online game than decent/friendly players. Tax free nodes not only display the generosity of the alliance owning it but also circumvents the risk of throwing money into the hands of idiots that would usually occupy a spot on my ignore list.

 

You need credits/resources to repair your rail and aren't jerks? Petition DE to make the treasury allow public donations of credits and recources. I'll gladly help out.

 

I would too. All the forma to you if you support a friendlier community here in Warframe.

[TrockBronze]

The greed of those who own the rails will eventually outweigh the greed of those playing them. With 0% tax and little income, the entire chart could be 0% until one clan or alliuance comes by with enough money and people to take out node by node (of course mutiple clans can do this) and charges a higher amount, giving them resources and allowing them to keep their position, where those wanting 0% may be able to take things back now and then but will always be stomped by those gaining resources faster. The only way to stop a greedy rail in this situation is to not play dark sectors at all.

[OniDax]

I'm with you OP. All who are against you aren't that bright. If you want 0% tax and no conflicts, then you might as well demand that DE remove alliances and solar rails altogether, as there is no point for either without the whole premise of clans/alliances challenging other clans/alliances. DE didn't give us this game mode just so that Eclipse and other few clans/alliances can take over the star chart. And anyone who thinks this is ok given the alliance system is either stupid or simply doesn't care for the alliance system.

 

Bottom line, if dark sectors are going to be free with no conflict, then DE might as well just make the Dark Sectors normal, permanent infested nodes like every other node in the system. There's no point for alliances if they aren't going to challenge each other's solar rails.

 

With the sentiments on this thread and others, U13 basically amounts to another waste of an update. DE should have just released the update two weeks ago when they originally planned, without Badlands/Dark Sectors and the new tileset+enemies. Should've left off Vay Hek too since obviously the community is &!$$ed about that too.

 

It's a shame, really. I actually like U13. Maybe U14 can undo the majority of the additions from U13 so that players can be satisfied with their Dark Sector missions that are no different than missions we've had for 6 months now.

Edited April 14, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Katakuna]

Don't care even a little bit.

 

I'll fight for those who possess the lowest taxes.  Always.

[Agent_of_Change]

The greed of those who own the rails will eventually outweigh the greed of those playing them. With 0% tax and little income, the entire chart could be 0% until one clan or alliuance comes by with enough money and people to take out node by node (of course mutiple clans can do this) and charges a higher amount, giving them resources and allowing them to keep their position, where those wanting 0% may be able to take things back now and then but will always be stomped by those gaining resources faster. The only way to stop a greedy rail in this situation is to not play dark sectors at all.

 

Team Greed, for clarifications sake, does not support greedy Rail holders. Team Greed supports all forms of greed that don't impact the individuals of Team Greed... which means we are always pissed off about something.   The point is I can't be mad if you are getting yours.

 

0% rails are the best option for all those who support greed, except the folks going broke supporting them but hey, The have my gratitude.  My plentiful, free, no commitments to support them, and most importantly 0 credit value gratitude.

 

GO TEAM GREED Sometimes it's hard work being the invisible middle finger of the market.

[Parinirvana]

What if my alliance is kind enough to take the repair and maintenance cost into our own hands without taxing other people? What if my alliance just wants others to enjoy the dark sector free on their part? Are we the bad guys to you? 

TL;DR - "We will provide everything, absolutely free to all other players. We will be responsible for the repair and maintenance cost, as long as you support us" vs "We will tax you so we can maintain the rail, and also it's your responsibility to pay tribute to the people who provide you services"

 

Seriously though, if you can't afford to maintain the dark sector while keeping the tax at 0%, then let other alliances who are capable of doing so, there will be plenty of those alliances who would selflessly provide you free rails. 

[TempestFoxNZ]

Why should I have to pay anything?

There will always be someone else willing to put up a new rail for free.

No there wont. Right now the alliances/clans may think that's the way forward but it wont last. Every time there isn't tax on a rail and it becomes contested all battlepay (if there is to be any) will be taken out of the personal coffers of rail holders. That is unsustainable unless you have tax to fund that for you. Enjoy the tax free rails while they last.

[OniDax]

DE, just get rid of Alliances, Solar Rails, and the conflict tileset, and make the dark sectors open for all. That'll get rid of this stupid whining about conflicts. Then, buff the presence of invasions and allow clans to back factions in those invasions. Depending on who wins or loses, the alliance either gains a portion of some profit or net some loss. Quite tired of all this 0% tax and no conflict crap.

[nefrai]

DE, just get rid of Alliances, Solar Rails, and the conflict tileset, and make the dark sectors open for all. That'll get rid of this stupid whining about conflicts. Then, buff the presence of invasions and allow clans to back factions in those invasions. Depending on who wins or loses, the alliance either gains a portion of some profit or net some loss. Quite tired of all this 0% tax and no conflict crap.

I don't care about the rest, but the alliances themselves are very nice. It allows me to have the Ghost clan I want with our own dojo, and still have an alliance chat, and easy way to join friend's games through it. I like being in a large alliance 100 times more than being in a large single clan.

Edited April 14, 2014 by nefrai

[OniDax]

I don't care about the rest, but the alliances themselves are very nice. It allows me to have the Ghost clan I want with our own dojo, and still have an alliance chat, and easy way to join friend's games through it. I like being in a large alliance 100 times more than being in a large single clan.

 

What are they nice for? The sole purpose for alliances is solar rails. The sole purpose for solar rails is to be contested. If DE didn't intend them to be contested, then there wouldn't be solar rails. The Dark Sectors wouldn't require clans to control them. That's not hard to get. You remove conflict and you remove the only purpose for alliances, solar rails, and the new tilesets.

[Shackram]

No there wont. Right now the alliances/clans may think that's the way forward but it wont last. Every time there isn't tax on a rail and it becomes contested all battlepay (if there is to be any) will be taken out of the personal coffers of rail holders. That is unsustainable unless you have tax to fund that for you. Enjoy the tax free rails while they last.

 

Except you're not taking into account that many players are going to fight for 0 battleplay, just to keep their access to 0% tax rails.

 

0% tax clans/alliances are doing a favour for the player base and you can expect that some of the player base is going to repay that favour.

 

Lose some short term money from not getting battle pay for the long term gain of 0% taxes.

[OniDax]

Except you're not taking into account that many players are going to fight for 0 battleplay, just to keep their access to 0% tax rails.

 

0% tax clans/alliances are doing a favour for the player base and you can expect that some of the player base is going to repay that favour.

 

Lose some short term money from not getting battle pay for the long term gain of 0% taxes.

 

Yes, a situation that is no different if there are no alliances or solar rails, and where the dark sectors are just permanently open.

[Bakim0n0]

I find it ironic that the people call those who support or would impose a tax "greedy" because they don't want to pay any of their income for using the rails.

Think about it... It costs creds and resources to put up the rails, but god forbid the community pay even 1 credit / run because asking that of us is just them drinking greedy milk.

Enjoy rails going from super awesome resource and exp spots to being dead-weight worthless battle nodes for 48 hours and may as well go farm Vor because you'll get a crapload more for your time.

[Bakim0n0]

Except you're not taking into account that many players are going to fight for 0 battleplay, just to keep their access to 0% tax rails.

 

0% tax clans/alliances are doing a favour for the player base and you can expect that some of the player base is going to repay that favour.

 

Lose some short term money from not getting battle pay for the long term gain of 0% taxes.

The opportunity cost of keeping those rails down for 48 hours far and away surpasses even a 30% tax for players.

I would much rather keep moderately high taxed nodes that people will actually fight for because of decent battle pay to keep the rewards up and running quickly rather than every other 48 hour period being less rewarding than the first planet on the chart.