Let Me See If I Understand: Rhino Prime Is Now The Perfect Frame

[HolySoul77]

Pacheon You clearly havent seen a Rhino Prime whit a soma going to work. You know how many bullets i fired from my Tetra? one, and because i though i could take that target but NOP he just stomped and blasted him off.

LOL Rhino prime + soma + roar + stomp = perfect 4k dmg headshots (if they survive the screen-cleaning skill)

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

HolySoul77 Exactly

[Morgax]

HolySoul77 IKR? its fuckig irritading, and pointless since Trinity needs Link AND blessing WHIT duration and other mods to take the most out of it. RHino Prime doesnt and mods only make him even more OP

Wait what?

Every frame depends on mods, in longer run blessing will always win because it provides 100% immunity, even with very specific build Rhino will fall earlier.

 

So again, what are we comparing the planets levels or endless defense/survival/interception missions? 

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Morgax I was complaining that Rhino Prime outshines every single frame but apparently the Lobster Army wants to discuss about Trinity in a Rhino Prime Thread, cause ninjas.

 

Point is:

Without Mods: Rhino Prime > all

With mods: Rhino Prime (and Trinity apparently) > all.

Edited April 15, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[SilentCynic]

I always figured that the proper way to balance something like this would be to buff its strengths, not its weaknesses. It makes the item/frame/whatever in question more powerful, without making it flawless. Rhino Prime, however, doesn't follow this idea, and let's be honest, his Vanguard helmet doesn't help.

 

Unfortunately, many people in the community seem to take on the stance of a petulant child when someone even vaguely alludes towards taking away their shiny toy, no matter how abhorrent or broken it may be.

Edited April 15, 2014 by SilentCynic

[Nobbins]

To answer one quote...

 

Maybe we should rather buff other frames to be equally viable in late game as Rhino is, than nerfing him?

 

... With another quote...

 

Nah

 

But in all seriousness, the game's easy enough as is, and self-gimping is rarely fun, and the need for it to create challenge is a sign that the dev team has failed in some way. Rhino Prime should not be the gold standard for warframe power. Something slightly below nonprime Rhino would be, in my opinion, but the exact goalpost is up for debate. In no situation do we need over-powered bruiser-tanks zipping around the map at breakneck speeds.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

SilentCynic My point exactly, thank you.

[Yue_Kagine]

Guys guys, let's be honest. If you look at all the Primes released so far, they have not been tweaked in any manner which could give them a stat based advantage over their non-primed allies. Only Rhino even if it is a 0.1 speed increase but that is enough, why Rhino Prime and why now?

 

This is not about builds but retaining the current integrity of the frames, Primes are built more well equipped polarity-wise and better looking, that is all. They shouldn't be statted to overcome their downfalls. But yes they could be statted to improve their strengths slightly, only slightly.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Nobbins WoW more people whit funtional brains are joining the discussion, thank god

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

YueGale as SilentCynic said to balance something is to buff its strengh not erase its weaknesses. Also im not saying they should have like OMG 200% more HP or anything but they should have improved strenghts over their normal counterparts.

Remember Primes are the original product while the Warframes we use are usually copies created by the Lotus whit reverse engineering.

[Yue_Kagine]

I will agree to that that much is sure, more straightforward explanation than I was trying to make but will it be done? That is the big question.

My answer to that is I don't really care either way, I will have both prime and non-primed whether their strengths are the same or different, it's more aesthetic value for me that the Prime Frames hold right now  X3

 

But I still do not agree with Rhino Prime being speedier than his non-prime. He's a slow arsed tank and I love it that way  XD

Edited April 15, 2014 by YueGale

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

YueGale and i will keep my CHicken Ember even if her Prime Gets better because as much swag as Ember Prime has she can not beat the CHicken Frame.

[HiroProtagonest]

why is everyone talking about trinity on a rhino post??? if you think trinity is OP and can do ANY mission without failing once then create a topic for that...Jesus...people get really defensive when we talk about rhino being the warframe GOD

Because this was inherently a balance discussion. The OP intended it to be a balance discussion.

Edited April 15, 2014 by HiroProtagonest

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

I like that we have best all-around frame, Rhino Prime. Others still fit in for specific missions. I mean, trinity, loki, vauban, etc. can be flat out better. But Rhino is never a wrong choice.

[-CM-Syein]

how about let Rhino Prime stay the same, and just add something to the other prime. 

[WARLOCKE]

Pick one of the following.

 

1) Rhino is fine lrn2ply.

 

2) Rhino scales very poorly in relation to higher enemies. Its not uncommon to have to stomp a heavy gunner at 30+ about 15 times before it will die. Iron Skin melts in seconds to any degree of focused fire at this level as well. This is not endless defense. This is t3 (barely).

 

3) Lrnyourframes. Whlie Rhino does have a very fast move speed, it also has one of the lowest stamina pools making that speed burst only. Kinda like its namesake in reality maybe?

 

4) Go cry about something that IS broken. Fleeting Blessing comes to mind.

 

and my favorite choice....

 

5) Stop playing low level content and making grand threads about "balance".

Edited April 16, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[RealPandemonium]

Resumed version:

 

Rhino Prime is broken. All prime frames should be buffed to be better than their normal counterparts but the buffs should be for them to improve on their roll, not to remove weakness and make them OP.

 

 

Now on the normal. WARNING long reading ahead!

 

Think about it, all other Warframes have their ups and downs: Loki has weak defenses but deceaving powers allow him to stay out of danger, Nova's power is INSANE but her defenses are laughable, Saryn is slow and her skills pretty situational but her defenses are beyond average and finally Rhino is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW but his defenses turn him into a true tank.

 

But then comes the so wanted Rhino Prime and DE though it would be a GREAT idea to make him as fast as Loki.

 

Now let’s see what Rhino prime has to offer:

 

Pros:

- High health and Shields.

 

- Some of the best CC whit Rhino Stomp and Charge.

 

- Rhino skin possible one of the best defensive skills around (and its now gold).

 

- Powerful damage buff whit Roar.

 

- Speed on par whit Loki and Nova.

 

- Probably one of the best design of all primes.

 

 

Cons:

- umm.... his cod piece still looks weird? Yeah that’s about it.

 

 

As you can see Rhino Prime is pretty much perfect whit no cons at all which means RHINO PRIME IS BROKEN! Whose idea was to give Rhino more speed? Seriously.

 

 

Now Rhino fans have even more to rub on our faces and more to gosh about how “RHINO IZ BUST FRAME EVA!” because sadly, its true, there is no reason to choose any other frame over Rhino Prime, he just covers all points any frame could do.

 

Wanna rush a mission? Rhino Prime will go so fast Loki would be ashamed of himself.

 

Wanna solo because you’re too cool to have a team. There is no entity in the game that can take a full potato Rhino prime.

 

Teammate needs a revive, pss no problem for the Rhino Prime.

 

Wanna press 4 to win? STOMP AWAY!

 

What’s the point now?

 

 

You know, I’m on the boat of people that say Primed Warframe should be Superior to their normal counterparts Stat wise because it’s true, they are supposed to be the originals so they should be much better than the non-primed counterparts. But what you forgot is that said buffs should be aimed at the job they are supposed to be doing, for example:

 

- Ember prime: As a caster that relies on running around burning people her prime version should be faster and have a higher energy pool.

 

- Frost prime: As a tanky caster whit CC he should have Higher shields or Health (or both) and maybe Higher energy pool.

 

- Mag Prime: Full on ranged caster. Primed version should have higher energy Pool and probably faster shield recharge.

 

- Rhino Prime: as a PURE TANK Prime Rhino should have even higher Health (since its Shield is pretty high already) and probably much higher armor and stay as slow as he is.

 

 

That’s balance, buffing primed version to fit the role they are supposed to be doing. Don’t like how slow Rhino is? Get a Rush mod and he will be good to go, or if you want a more mobile tank Valkyr is a pretty good choice. That’s the point of having multiple classes in a game, so people can find the one that suits their style best or customize the one they have to suit them better. Remember a warframe cant be good at EVERYTHING, it needs a flaw that can be compensated by a teammate, Co-op game rememeber.

 

Hope it wasnt too long and that i enlightened you in some way, just leave your comment and FLAME SHIELD UP!

All of the frames you described in the OP are currently overpowered or the best in some way.  In fact, Rhino is probably the weakest of them in terms of raw strength.  Nova is ridiculously strong and her defense is not laughable (slowing everything on the map by 50% = 50% damage reduction and she has fast run speed and wormhole to keep her even safer,) Loki turns off combat for himself and turns every faction into weaker infested with his 4 (also has switch teleport for super mobility on top of his fast run speed,)  Saryn has the second strongest 4 ability in the game (also stuns!), can repeatedly halve the hp of every enemy in the room with Venom, and has a decoy (that does good damage when it explodes!) on top of her strong defensive stats.  

 

Rhino isn't popular because he's fast or overpowered (there is a case to be made for that but it's far from the worst out there) but because he's easy to play and popular on teams.  His abilities (sans 1) all compensate for poor gameplay.  Iron Skin lets Rhinos be messy in the amount of damage they take and also allows them to revive teammates who are themselves playing poorly.  Roar makes everyone do more damage, requiring less effort to kill things.  Stomp is a panic button that is also exploitable against bosses and can turn off combat in a huge radius indefinitely when used wisely.  Rhino makes the game easy for everyone on his team. The only frame that does this better is Trinity, who can make her whole team invincible indefinitely.  

 

Regarding Prime stats, I don't think players will appreciate putting multiple formas and potatoes into unprimed frames only to find that the prime version is now strictly better.  Rhino Prime's speed should be made the same as regular Rhino.

 

Vanguard helmet is fine; a fast Rhino is not hurting other peoples' gameplay.  Never mind that even Frost can equip any copter weapon (there are more of these now in Melee 2.0, and many formerly fair copter weapons are now great as a result of the changes) and eliminate his speed problem entirely.  

 

Lastly, this game is about flavor.  All the different frames and weapons in this game offer different flavors of gameplay.  It's not about what's the best, but what you like the best.  There's no pressure on you to play Rhino or any other frame.  Dumb, vocal people exist in every community; just ignore them.  

[Buzkyl]

Pick one of the following.

 

1) Rhino is fine lrn2ply.

 

2) Rhino scales very poorly in relation to higher enemies. Its not uncommon to have to stomp a heavy gunner at 30+ about 15 times before it will die. Iron Skin melts in seconds to any degree of focused fire at this level as well. This is not endless defense. This is t3 (barely).

 

3) Lrnyourframes. Whlie Rhino does have a very fast move speed, it also has one of the lowest stamina pools making that speed burst only. Kinda like its namesake in reality maybe?

 

4) Go cry about something that IS broken. Fleeting Blessing comes to mind.

 

and my favorite choice....

 

5) Stop playing low level content and making grand threads about "balance".

 

1. Lrn2balance

 

2. Most oure damage abilities scales horribly, people use Rhino Stomp for the massive AoE time freeze at higher levels, not to clear rooms. It's CC is more useful than it's damage. Ironskin also blocks rhino form nearly every enemy CC ingame. If you allow yourself to be focus fired, you're doing it wrong frankly. The ability was changed to have a cap for a reason.

 

3.Mitigated through Rhino Charge. Also Vanguard Helmet.

 

4. Because a Frame that has abilities and unlocks that can cover it's own weakness isn't broken...

 

5.Stop being ignorant to the issue that Rhino Prime in-essence has no weakness or fault at this point that is made by the frame itself and not enemy scaling.

[WARLOCKE]

1. Lrn2balance

 

2. Most oure damage abilities scales horribly, people use Rhino Stomp for the massive AoE time freeze at higher levels, not to clear rooms. It's CC is more useful than it's damage. Ironskin also blocks rhino form nearly every enemy CC ingame. If you allow yourself to be focus fired, you're doing it wrong frankly. The ability was changed to have a cap for a reason.

 

3.Mitigated through Rhino Charge. Also Vanguard Helmet.

 

4. Because a Frame that has abilities and unlocks that can cover it's own weakness isn't broken...

 

5.Stop being ignorant to the issue that Rhino Prime in-essence has no weakness or fault at this point that is made by the frame itself and not enemy scaling.

 

1) Lrn2notthinkyouradev? Balance is fine with Rhino.

 

2)So wait, ppl say hes OP because stomp deals so much damage it clears rooms and ruins games. But now your crying about its CC? Which  is it? Do you even know anymore? Andwait, I thought he was OP and should be slow because hes a tank......that now, according to you, shouldnt play like  tank? YOu need to pick a beef.

 

3) No one who plays Rhino wastes energy on Rhino Charge for movement. You cant because Fleeting destroys its range. And how does the presence of vanguard make anything I typed wrong? It doesnt. Because it does not fix the balancing element of Rhinos run speed....low endurance.

Once more, pick a battle.

 

4) He has a abillity to give him more endurance? Iron Skin covers no weakness, its a frame feature for defense. Rhino is not special in that fact. And before you say it, no Iron Skin is not the best defense power. It is near useless in any game play that matters Turb is a far better skill.

 

5) Rhino has a weakness or two,, you just dont want to or are (and im sorry to say this, im not trying to be rude)  to noobish to see it. Is Rhino a stong frame? Depends on the circumstance. And not scaling well IS a weakness.

[fatpig84]

Agua I have seen Rhino Prime Surpassing a Master Race Loki pretty often. Also how comes the Heavy duty Rhino can be as fast as the suposed Master Race frame. Sure Loki is still faster if you build towards speed but Rhino Prime is still pretty close.

He is just as fast as Loki if speed built, which all Lokis should be doing anyway.

Rush is considered mandatory on Loki.

Rhino Prime can be built for speed as well if needed anyway.

Edited April 16, 2014 by fatpig84

[Nobbins]

2)So wait, ppl say hes OP because stomp deals so much damage it clears rooms and ruins games. But now your crying about its CC? Which  is it? Do you even know anymore? Andwait, I thought he was OP and should be slow because hes a tank......that now, according to you, shouldnt play like  tank? YOu need to pick a beef.

 

It took me a while to even figure out what was meant by this. Turns out it actually doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. cozzi21 never mentioned any of the above as a broken or overpowered gameplay mechanic. Rhino stomp -is- basically only good for its CC at 'endgame' levels, but has nothing to do with his prime speed boost covering all of his weaknesses-by-design.

[hikistyle]

Rhino Prime + Vangaurd Helmet = Fast as loki. Rhino Prime has 1.0 run speed, plus vangaurd helmet brings him to 1.25 which is as fast as loki with a what...5% decrease in power strength which you won't ever notice?

and if you put max rush with it, Rhino Prime can exceed Loki in sprint mode..

and I agreed with you there

Edited April 16, 2014 by hikistyle

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

WARLOCKE OH IM SORRYY MR PROPLAYER! I guess all this time playing warframe since the Beta trying out every new content from fist misión to reworked bossed, the void and now Dark Sectors CLEARLY is nothing to be proud of, Even beating a high lv Grineer misión whit a low lv ember and Lving up my Oberón in Phobos whit just my Rank 20 Prod.

Im sorry for my insolence cause clearly you have shown me that you know better in SUCH A CLEVER WAY that of course im wrong.

Plz keep telling me how Trinity can Solo anything when fully modded for link and Blessing going god mod, because god forbit me for DARING to point out that Rhino Prime, the frame WHIT NO WEAKNESSES AND ALL THE POWER IN THE WORLD, is clearly underpowered and needs a buff because im not clearling the room when im pressing 4.

I dont know why did i even bothered to answer that cause im pretty sure your stupid enough to think this is an actual compliment. That or your just gonna swear on my mom cause you have nothing else to say.

Edited April 16, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[WARLOCKE]

WARLOCKE OH IM SORRYY MR PROPLAYER! I guess all this time playing warframe since the Beta trying out every new content from fist misión to reworked bossed, the void and now Dark Sectors CLEARLY is nothing to be proud of, Even beating a high lv Grineer misión whit a low lv ember and Lving up my Oberón in Phobos whit just my Rank 20 Prod.

Im sorry for my insolence cause clearly you have shown me that you know better in SUCH A CLEVER WAY that of course im wrong.

Plz keep telling me how Trinity can Solo anything when fully modded for link and Blessing going god mod, because god forbit me for DARING to point out that Rhino Prime, the frame WHIT NO WEAKNESSES AND ALL THE POWER IN THE WORLD, is clearly underpowered and needs a buff because im not clearling the room when im pressing 4.

I dont know why did i even bothered to answer that cause im pretty sure your stupid enough to think this is an actual compliment. That or your just gonna swear on my mom cause you have nothing else to say.

Dont be dramatic. It ruins anything you may say further. I would comment on your emo outburst but it isnt worth anyones time.

I will answer the more level part of your post however,

Why would I tell you about trinity? That its a good warframe? Sure. Is fleeting blessing broken? Sure is. So is fleeting stomp and fleeting MP and a slew of others. Fleeting blessing just happens to be the most broken of the bunch.

Rhino has a weakness, several. You just wont see it because you are to invested on a personal level to do so. Its clear for anyone with eyes and that chooses to see.

Fun fact, I dont even play Rhino except to level weapons solo on saturn. Why? Maybe for the several weakness's he has. I also mained Ash since his release, but am now switching to Loki, because im sick of being the red headed step ninja. But go ahead and link my profile some more, itll help with that rage.

Edited April 16, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[WARLOCKE]

It took me a while to even figure out what was meant by this. Turns out it actually doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. cozzi21 never mentioned any of the above as a broken or overpowered gameplay mechanic. Rhino stomp -is- basically only good for its CC at 'endgame' levels, but has nothing to do with his prime speed boost covering all of his weaknesses-by-design.

 

Yea that was pretty sad post there, not a shining moment.

 

Ill explain. I wrote that post to all the crykids that have blackened the community and giving toxic feedback and generally just acting like ignorant brats. 

 

The crykids cant figure out what they want to cry about. That was the point. I was not adressing the OP in any fashion. Hope this clears things up.