Ash's Abilities...

[Ethice]

Ash Improvements:

I think that Ash is beginning to become underpowered compared to most other frames. Shuriken quickly falls off in terms of damage even with Intensify, Smoke screen's initial stagger is okay crowd control and the stealth melee damage buff is great for clearing crowds, but Loki's Invisibility is better in every way. Blade Storm's damage is great, but the ability takes far too long to perform on It's limited enemy count.

 

Shuriken -

I think Shuriken would be much more useful if staggered enemies as well. Maybe increasing the number of shuriken thrown per target could help make it more effective as well. A damage buff on unalerted targets would be cool too.

 

Smoke Screen -

Smoke Screen would be even better if the stealth affected other squad members in range, giving Ash an team stealthing ability as apposed to basically a reskin of Invisiblity.

 

Blade Storm -

Blade Storm would be a lot more effective if all of the targets were hit at once as apposed to being hit one at a time. Maybe Ash could vanish in a cloud of smoke then several smoke or holographic clones of Ash would pull off the current Bladestorm assassinations on the targets all at once.

[zeroythe]

I like the suggestion for Shuriken, either a stagger or make it throw multiple with more rank (I'm thinking a contra style spread shot). As for smoke screen if it did grant invisibility to all teammates it would almost need to cost 100 energy, that is a lot of ability for its current cost. All things considered I do like the idea. Blade Storm however I like in its current form. I like the cinematic look of jumping from enemy to enemy, it just feels very brutal to me, and it is one of my favorite skills in the game.

[DiabolusUrsus]

*Reads post about improving Ash's abilities.*
*Is surprised to find absolutely zero mention of Teleport.*

Shuriken sounds okay. I'd actually like to see it turned into an almost pure CC ability, but with some really good CC.

Smoke Screen... eh. It's fine the way it is. I don't think teammates should be capable of stealth outside of using Shade if they aren't Ash or Loki. What smokescreen could do instead is offer a ranged damage reduction to teammates standing within the lingering cloud of smoke. Reducing enemy accuracy and all that. 

I also agree with zeroythe concerning Blade Storm. Pretty much every suggestion I read is about making Blade Storm "instant," with "clones/shadows/specters/copies" of Ash attacking all at once. My response to that will always be "No, I really don't want to see him turn into another run-of-the-mill-press-4-for-burst-damage Warframe." Too many Warframes have abilities that are just glorified burst damage. I'd rather see Blade Storm draw huge amounts of aggro, considering the fact that it's really flashy, menacing to the enemy, and Ash is completely invulnerable for the duration. The ability would make up for the time it took to complete by taking some pressure off of teammates. Team utility. Maintains its unique nature as an ultimate. Everybody wins. 

[Pandoran_Stallion]

I actually wanted this thread to show up for a long time. I think the energy cost for Smoke Screen needs to go up to 75. Also, teleport needs that second of uselessness removed, and turned into a 35 energy second ability. I think that bladestorm should paralyze all targeted enemies and THEN do the animation (that would add utility as well).

Edited April 21, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I like the idea but you have to consider that ash is more of a soloist frame. Besides that i like the idea.

[Ethice]

I like the suggestion for Shuriken, either a stagger or make it throw multiple with more rank (I'm thinking a contra style spread shot). As for smoke screen if it did grant invisibility to all teammates it would almost need to cost 100 energy, that is a lot of ability for its current cost. All things considered I do like the idea. Blade Storm however I like in its current form. I like the cinematic look of jumping from enemy to enemy, it just feels very brutal to me, and it is one of my favorite skills in the game.

 

Blade Storm is awesome when soloing because you can watch all the Ash epicness, but running with almost any other frame you're usually kill stolen mid bladestorm by someone running in and wiping everything xD

[Ethice]

*Reads post about improving Ash's abilities.*

*Is surprised to find absolutely zero mention of Teleport.*

Shuriken sounds okay. I'd actually like to see it turned into an almost pure CC ability, but with some really good CC.

Smoke Screen... eh. It's fine the way it is. I don't think teammates should be capable of stealth outside of using Shade if they aren't Ash or Loki. What smokescreen could do instead is offer a ranged damage reduction to teammates standing within the lingering cloud of smoke. Reducing enemy accuracy and all that. 

I also agree with zeroythe concerning Blade Storm. Pretty much every suggestion I read is about making Blade Storm "instant," with "clones/shadows/specters/copies" of Ash attacking all at once. My response to that will always be "No, I really don't want to see him turn into another run-of-the-mill-press-4-for-burst-damage Warframe." Too many Warframes have abilities that are just glorified burst damage. I'd rather see Blade Storm draw huge amounts of aggro, considering the fact that it's really flashy, menacing to the enemy, and Ash is completely invulnerable for the duration. The ability would make up for the time it took to complete by taking some pressure off of teammates. Team utility. Maintains its unique nature as an ultimate. Everybody wins. 

 

Smokescreen offering a team intake damage reduction is actually a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion. The reason so many people complain about Blade Storm as it is is -because- of all the frames with press 4 to win ults who run in and make Blade Storm completely pointless by wiping all your targets before you get anywhere. When I'm running with a P42W frame in my squad I don't even use Blade Storm because at that point It's a waste of 100 energy. You're better off just Smoekscreening and meleeing manually. I do however like the idea of making Blade Storm pull enermy focus to Ash and maybe all targeted enemies could get a debuff to damage output, armor or movement speed.

[Ethice]

I actually wanted this thread to show up for a long time. I think the energy cost for Smoke Screen needs to go up to 75. Also, teleport needs that second of uselessness removed, and turned into a 35 energy second ability. I think that bladestorm should paralyze all targeted enemies and THEN do the animation (that would add utility as well).

 

Smokescreen doesn't need an energy cost increase. The stealth and buff you get in it are both worse than Loki's Teleport. The initial stagger is a boon, but It's only around one to two seconds of stagger. Teleport needs a little leeway on aiming. It's way to dependant on precise aiming. The paralysis idea could be a nice addition to Blade Storm.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Ethice

[Liverslices]

Ash really needs to replace Loki as a starter frame. Ive talked to so many people that regret selling loki as soon as they got their next frame because they didnt have the right mods or equipment to use him.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

Smokescreen doesn't need an energy cost increase. The stealth and buff you get in it are both worse than Loki's Teleport. The initial stagger is a boon, but It's only around one to two seconds of stagger. Teleport needs a little leeway on aiming. It's way to dependant on precise aiming. The paralysis idea could be a nice addition to Blade Storm.

My apologies, I meant after buff-give it 1 more second of stun duration, add 2 seconds to invis duration, and make it a crowd buff with stun AoE, and I think it would make a worthy 75/50 energy ability. I was saying 75 because it needs to be balanced with Loki (who is entirely self-serving, and we don't want team invis spam). Both stun and invis duration should be upgradeable by mods, as should crowd buff and enemy stun radius (25m and 15m, respectively). When you look at it that way 50-75 energy is a fair (maybe even low) cost for such a buff

Then again, Ash needs it!

Edited April 21, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress

[Ethice]

My apologies, I meant after buff-give it 1 more second of stun duration, add 2 seconds to invis duration, and make it a crowd buff with stun AoE, and I think it would make a worthy 75/50 energy ability. I was saying 75 because it needs to be balanced with Loki (who is entirely self-serving, and we don't want team invis spam). Both stun and invis duration should be upgradeable by mods, as should crowd buff and enemy stun radius (25m and 15m, respectively). When you look at it that way 50-75 energy is a fair (maybe even low) cost for such a buff

Then again, Ash needs it!

 

I see what you mean. Aoe stealth would be kind of OP, but that's never really stopped other frames xD I agree that It's unecessary though. Giving Ash's smokescreen the same kind of stagger as Valkyr's shockwave stun ability would be nice. It would proc counter assassinations then.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

I see what you mean. Aoe stealth would be kind of OP, but that's never really stopped other frames xD I agree that It's unecessary though. Giving Ash's smokescreen the same kind of stagger as Valkyr's shockwave stun ability would be nice. It would proc counter assassinations then.

I'm not saying AoE is bad- I'm all for it, as it makes him different from Loki. I just think that Teleport and Smoke Screen should switch places on his skill set, and Smoke screen should cost more with that buff. Edited April 21, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress

[DiabolusUrsus]

Smokescreen offering a team intake damage reduction is actually a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion. The reason so many people complain about Blade Storm as it is is -because- of all the frames with press 4 to win ults who run in and make Blade Storm completely pointless by wiping all your targets before you get anywhere. When I'm running with a P42W frame in my squad I don't even use Blade Storm because at that point It's a waste of 100 energy. You're better off just Smoekscreening and meleeing manually. I do however like the idea of making Blade Storm pull enermy focus to Ash and maybe all targeted enemies could get a debuff to damage output, armor or movement speed.

 

Glad to help out. The "P42W Frame Teammate" problem could be alternately solved by changing Bladestorm's targeting dynamic. For example, giving it grace time to acquire new targets, or having it apply a temporary stat buff to Ash that scales inversely with the time it takes the ability to complete. (i.e. If Ash completes the whole 16 targets, no buff. If he only kills one, massive stat buff for a short duration.) I'm all for pumping more utility  into the ability, I just don't want to see it become boring burst-damage. 

[Ethice]

I'm not saying AoE is bad- I'm all for it, as it makes him different from Loki. I just think that Teleport and Smoke Screen should switch places on his skill set, and Smoke screen should cost more with that buff.

 I suppose that would make sense since Teleport is only really useful for single target stagger and being lazy xD

[Ethice]

Glad to help out. The "P42W Frame Teammate" problem could be alternately solved by changing Bladestorm's targeting dynamic. For example, giving it grace time to acquire new targets, or having it apply a temporary stat buff to Ash that scales inversely with the time it takes the ability to complete. (i.e. If Ash completes the whole 16 targets, no buff. If he only kills one, massive stat buff for a short duration.) I'm all for pumping more utility  into the ability, I just don't want to see it become boring burst-damage. 

 

I like that idea. The cinematic part of Blade Storm is part of what makes it so awesome it just doesn't serve a purpose as is in P42W squads.