There Is No Endgame

[MechaTails]

Had some free time so figured I'd whack the hornet nest a little

 

What do you think of this: There is no endgame in Warframe, so there are no weapons suitable for endgame.

 

All there is to do after youve leveled everything and done everything is fight in missions where the enemies keep rising in level forever. No weapon is suitable for that after a certain point. Even the terribly OP weapons we have now fail after a while, does that make them sucky for "endgame" too?

 

What does it mean when someone says "we need more endgame weapons", because it seems like that should be rephrased to "we need more OP weapons to last an undetermined longer amount of time in endless defense/survival", because there is no endgame. Or if there is, it's a vague idea at best, not something concrete you can balance weapons around.

 

What's endgame to you? To me it's fighting enemies to around level 60 for a while and calling it quits, since I found that most players fighting even higher level enemies just dont have very nice personalities lol.

 

Discusss!

Edited April 26, 2014 by DarkTails

[(PSN)korm-2_0]

Fighting level 180 enemies is end game for me.

 

So I'm a very average player.

 

~Max I've fought was 57??~ 

[Maou]

Forums is endgame.

[(PSN)korm-2_0]

Forums is endgame.

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[VKhaun]

1) When people say 'end game weapons' I think they're speaking more to the fact of how our weapons are compared to eachother. Because the mods have stayed the same since the corrupted mods were put in (U10), but the weapons being added have sometimes been significantly more powerful Then those significantly more powerful weapons get modded by %, so when you're talking 'end game' with eight maxed out mods equipped you end up with a narrow list of 'best' weapons.

 

That's not a problem of needing more weapons, it's a problem of power creep and needing to rebalance what we have.

 

 

 

2) End-game to me is a notion from MMORPG's that have boring gameplay and can't give out content faster than people consume it, so they make up random things for people to do. Other than going off to a PvP war, I've never really seen any 'end game' content as being very good as far as fun goes.

 

To me, the whole idea of 'END GAME" is a crutch to replace what people used to value in games at arcades, which is replay value.

 

All I want from DE for end-game is a mission type that constantly assaults my team with tons of enemies in cool environments and slowly ramps up difficulty until we die. That, to me, is the essence of replay. The game is fun, LET ME PLAY IT. Survival is my end game and I'm very happy with it as long as air is just keeping us moving, and does not become the bottleneck for progression. I expect to be shot, chopped, eviscerated, eaten or vaporized, not suffocated. 

 

The problems with weapons and power creep hurt this because players feel funneled towards those few best outlier weapons and variety falls off a cliff.

Edited April 26, 2014 by VKhaun

[Tengu-musume]

I personally wish engame in Warframe required skill more than just how safely you can dish out numbers.

 

I played Ninja Gaiden SIgma on PS3 and I really liked how your skill is the only thing that will save you.

[BlurrE_Tempo]

If we had endgame then once everyone beat the game they would not want to play it again. Its better if there is no endgame. With all the events there will never need to be endgame for we will always have something to gain.

[AureusVulpes]

I think it would be kinda cool if there was a mod that gave you a damage bonus while wallrunning. It would add a skillfactor to the ever-increasing demand for stronger equips and mods. Then add a mission type where you have a large circular structure that throws random enemies at you, while a wall of orokin lasers slowly follow behind you. The enemy level wouldn't ramp up at all; rather, enemies would be at star chart end level (whatever that happens to be currently, including future updates), and energy/ammo drops would slowly decline in rate You'd try to survive as long as possible. Could have weekly leaderboards or some such for competition.

 

EDIT: There would be walls that retract after you kill all of the enemies. Don't kill em all? You get da laser.

Edited April 26, 2014 by AureusVulpes

[DeathMavrik]

endgame is not to me a mission that you can replay for cool rewards and such, its not that at all

 

EndGame is where all the lore and all the content tie together in one final mission where we have to do something that changes our game. There can never be a true endgame in an MMO game because content is always introduced consistently

 

The only way to have a pseudo endgame is to have a final mission that ties in every decision that we ever made, perhaps siding alot with the corpus or the grineer, and having us fight one last huge battle in order to reach the ultimate goal of achieving piece in the solar system.

 

an endgame is not a survival or defense mission

 

Endgame is the End of the game's story that it tells you, after which you make your own story 

[Tengu-musume]

Hmmm... there seems to be a difference of definition among people regarding "endgame".

 

To me it doesn't mean the "ending" of a game, just what you do regularly after you've reached the top.

[KentReeves]

Endgame is the same no matter what you play.

 

"Replayability"

[Syzodia]

Endgame is Flappy Zephyr.

[Loswaith]

Warframe is planed as a sandbox game so "end game" (ie. the bit you play before finishing with the game) is actually non-existent. "end game" is whatever YOU make it.  Sure there are things you will want to do in the late game rather than the eairly game, but its just part of the game as a whole.

 

In many online-multiplayer games endgame is just an exponential increase in grind, but otherwise the same game.

 

At the end of the day people need to get past the notion that there actually needs to be any 'end game'.  Warframes 'end game' is just like it's game propper.  You just do what you have always done, the game doesnt need to suddently change its style just because you now have every item (a common take of what the 'end game' is).

 

 

...

To me it doesn't mean the "ending" of a game, just what you do regularly after you've reached the top.

The issue with the top for warframe is its ambigious, a warframe/weapon at rank 30 has reached the top.  Maxed out mods have reached the top.  Clearing all the nodes is reaching the top of the node tree.  Warframe has many things that are the "top" depending on how you look at it.

 

A lot of us have been playing the "end game" for a long time already, hence why we have 100s of hours clocked up having effectivly 'mastered' the game a long time ago.  The notion of an actual "end game" trigger is really only in the eyes of each individual player.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Loswaith

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

End game to me is collecting every single weapon in game :)

[SilentCynic]

To me, the whole idea of 'END GAME" is a crutch to replace what people used to value in games at arcades, which is replay value.

 

While I agree with your eloquent post entirely, this particular line deserves some emphasis. Endgame is lauded as this mystical thing that will suddenly make everything great, a vague concept that is clumsily defined and nigh-impossible to implement.

 

As you put it, what we need is replay value. To have that, we need to add more depth to the combat, I believe. AI needs to be overhauled entirely, new enemies need to be added in that can't just be nuked by AoE a second after they spawn, NPCs need to interact with the terrain, and some measure of adjustable tactics need to be employed.

 

The challenge must be our enemies themselves, not simply because of some stupid, arbitrary numerical inflation, but of enhanced synergy and more intriguing scenarios and combat situations than we have right now. And please, don't even mention wave 231 ED, or 2h Survivals; sure, there is a slight paradigm shift when enemies can one-shot you, but aside from taking more bullets and dishing out more damage, they are still functionally the same as a level 1 variant of said enemy type.

 

Warframe's a game based primarily on combat. If the combat part of the game stays weak, predictable and too simplistic, there will never be 'end game'.

[VKhaun]

Generally agree, but the power creep drowns out a lot of what they've done already.

 

Infested leapers are a good example. if you try to stand there and just duke it out with runners and chargers, the leapers stop just out of melee range and tackle your S#&$. This is three stupid simple A.i. that have been put next to eachother to create a situation that constantly makes you deal with changes... unless you're immune to KD and one shotting everything...

 

Same thing with sending rollers at you, or shield drones. If we couldn't just ignore roller bombs or plow through enemy shields this stuff would create simple decisions and prioritization that keep the player interested. That is lost, purely with power creep, and power creep will just as easily drown out any future layers of A.I. or behavior that gets put in.

 

If you view my profile I've been saying the same thing about lots of games since before I came to the WF boards a year ago:

 

 

What happened to action games? 

 

Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

Edited April 26, 2014 by VKhaun

[low1991]

Had some free time so figured I'd whack the hornet nest a little

 

What do you think of this: There is no endgame in Warframe, so there are no weapons suitable for endgame.

 

All there is to do after youve leveled everything and done everything is fight in missions where the enemies keep rising in level forever. No weapon is suitable for that after a certain point. Even the terribly OP weapons we have now fail after a while, does that make them sucky for "endgame" too?

 

What does it mean when someone says "we need more endgame weapons", because it seems like that should be rephrased to "we need more OP weapons to last an undetermined longer amount of time in endless defense/survival", because there is no endgame. Or if there is, it's a vague idea at best, not something concrete you can balance weapons around.

 

What's endgame to you? To me it's fighting enemies to around level 60 for a while and calling it quits, since I found that most players fighting even higher level enemies just dont have very nice personalities lol.

 

Discusss!

a game where the mission provides a total disadvantage to the players.

*alrdy PM'd my idea of endgame to DE*

*waiting for QQ/Rage from so called endgame players*

[Cpt_Atroxium]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215964-this-is-my-end-game-what-is-yours/#entry2511707

[MechaTails]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215964-this-is-my-end-game-what-is-yours/#entry2511707

That topic is from the past grandpa! This one is the new hotness, get with the times!

[Azawarau]

Its not a good end game but thats what it is

 

Lvl 200 enemies VS Ogris is one of the most saddening things ive ever seen

[MechaTails]

Is there any difference fighting LV80 enemies as there is LV200? Because at 80 they can already OHKO me lol

[hiky40]

just waiting for a new planet and solar system >_>

[SolidSp33d]

If you're looking at infinitely scaling game types for actual endgame you're fighting a losing battle. Unless they release a gun that does nothing but one shots there will never be a weapon "good enough for endgame" if you think that.

 

Endless games types are just endless games types. They are working on endgame now which should have a set level range to start with.

[Sh1n3y]

Yeah. I agree. People that play the really high level stuff tend to get very 'know-it-all'-ish. I probably get the same way sometimes. It makes a bit of sense because you have to put so much time into a mission for it to get really tough and people don't want to waste their time in a group that doesn't know what they are doing. Still, it takes a way A LOT of the fun factor since there's not always one way to skin a cat (poor kitty). 

 

This isn't an all encompassing solution, but it helps one of the problems at least. So, in the highest level defense/survival available (Pluto, T3 Void), a group of tenno with decked out weapons/warframes still have to stay in for 30ish minutes before things start getting heated. That's a long time. Essentially, to cut back on this time, they need to make higher lvl stuff (T4 Void). I know others have suggested it as well. Making stronger weapons doesn't really make sense to me because not only would it be too OP for lower stuff with lower lvl players on the same missions, but it would also cause people to need to stay in their survival/defenses even longer before things felt difficult.