Morcant Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Players ignore the taxes because they never see the money they're losing. It's very transparent, and the propaganda in this thread is tuned to this very fact. But players always take notice of fat battle pay rewards, which cycles into Eclipse winning every conflict and getting more and more tax revenue to fuel expansion.Thus, Eclipse will continue to grow until they swallow the whole system, all while spouting platitudes of non-aggression. When taxes hit 50%, will you care then? How far is too far? Remember, peacetime is tax time, and it's now a minimum of 4 times longer than conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I support the constant continuation of conflict. The side I pick to support during a conflict will always be the side I feel most likely to get into another conflict. Dat War-Economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squig Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I support the constant continuation of conflict. The side I pick to support during a conflict will always be the side I feel most likely to get into another conflict. Dat War-Economy. Well support Eclipse for that delicious Eclipse Brand Moon pie! Now with more credit filling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Well support Eclipse for that delicious Eclipse Brand Moon pie! Now with more credit filling! Has nothing to do with credits or materials. I'll root for whoever is moving nodes around. Eclipse isn't really on the offensive. Maybe if they started to talk about complete rail domination I'd get excited about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdei Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Has nothing to do with credits or materials. I'll root for whoever is moving nodes around. Eclipse isn't really on the offensive. Maybe if they started to talk about complete rail domination I'd get excited about them. gonna be attacking two nodes with the next upcoming conflicts, Gabii and Sechura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenant102 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Way to ignore the fact they have an alliance backing them up as well. Seriously dude not cool. I don't agree with the free tax nonsense, but they have been working their asses(as a group) off. I'm not making any judgement of if they have an alliance or not. They've managed to hang onto a rail without taxing that specific rail through several conflicts. I use them as an example because I appreciate that they're working their asses off the keep that thing free and standing. Alliance or not they're showing that a free rail can work and I respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSp33d Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 gonna be attacking two nodes with the next upcoming conflicts, Gabii and Sechura I find it ironic that Eclipse is now attacking a free rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini-Gunner Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm not making any judgement of if they have an alliance or not. They've managed to hang onto a rail without taxing that specific rail through several conflicts. I use them as an example because I appreciate that they're working their asses off the keep that thing free and standing. Alliance or not they're showing that a free rail can work and I respect that. I couldn't agree more. Rails are run by the people who want them around. Its principal over "battle pay" that keeps that rail going and I respect that as well. I find it ironic that Eclipse is now attacking a free rail. Its bound to happen, its like kicking a nice dog. Little do they know the dog as a big owner. Hope to see you on the field :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kartumterek Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I find it ironic that Eclipse is now attacking a free rail. /waits for 100% rail domination and 100% taxation on credits and resources... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterminatus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Clan Ghost Bear has hung onto their free rail through several conflicts; so the 'Free rails will always fall' logic is flawed. It's not easy to keep a free rail going for sure, but it's clearly doable for some time. Lords of the East explicitly threw in the towel without doing serious damage, another did it for the lulz, and the current challenger preemptively declared that they are giving Clan Ghost Bear a free win. The other two didn't even put in much effort into it. Considering that the conflicts typically last 30+ hours it's not indicative of the community rather than an active minority supporting them (and their history of rail kills is much more shorter than Eclipse's rail at Sinai). Come back proclaiming Clan Ghost Bear's greatness when they face opponents on the level of what SoV faces on a consistent basis. Edited April 28, 2014 by Exterminatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLion Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Eclipse: 25% Tribute, lied in the past about keeping rates at 0%, owns WAY too many rails Just another Eclipse hater. They didn't promise to keep 0% taxes. They tried to set them at 0% from beginning but after being attacking many times in a row alliance realized it's impossible if they're gonna hold these rails, repair them and offer high battlepays. 25% credit tax and 0% resource tax are fair enough considering their 10,000+ credit battlepays during conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzardtong Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I said it before and i say it again. If People would stop looking at the paycheck, eclipse would be long gone, but they don't, Most players act like mercenaries, always working for the highest bidder. and eclipse is the highest bidder in this case. you want them gone? then say no to the battle pay and fight for the clan/alliance you want to fight for. i am aware of the fact that some of you do it, but it's clearly not enough, otherwise eclipse would be long gone problem is, a Rail/Invasion with no battle pay is like doing void missions without prime parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralArmchair Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Oh. And There is something more. I want to know when Eclipse said that taxes will be 0%. I'd never seen that statement. It was in their rail message for all of their rails back when they were promising to run them at 0%. They promptly scrubbed that message away once they started price gouging. If People would stop looking at the paycheck, eclipse would be long gone, but they don't, Most players act like mercenaries, always working for the highest bidder. and eclipse is the highest bidder in this case. The sad thing is that they paycheck is coming out of your own wallet. It is like the only road in town is a private road and you're charged $10 to use it. A new public road is under construction that will be free for all, but the owner of the private road is graciously giving people $2 to sabotage its construction. Edited April 28, 2014 by GeneralArmchair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadiantProxy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Players ignore the taxes because they never see the money they're losing. It's very transparent, and the propaganda in this thread is tuned to this very fact. But players always take notice of fat battle pay rewards, which cycles into Eclipse winning every conflict and getting more and more tax revenue to fuel expansion. Thus, Eclipse will continue to grow until they swallow the whole system, all while spouting platitudes of non-aggression. When taxes hit 50%, will you care then? How far is too far? Remember, peacetime is tax time, and it's now a minimum of 4 times longer than conflict. That's exactly how I think. I always disliked games where a big clan has the monopoly. Yeah, they're playing the game. And giving nothing of the game to other clans/alliances. Soon every other alliance will be obsolete and people will disband them (that's the worst case scenario). Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The sad thing is that they paycheck is coming out of your own wallet. It is like the only road in town is a private road and you're charged $10 to use it. A new public road is under construction that will be free for all, but the owner of the private road is graciously giving people $2 to sabotage its construction. Except in Eclipse's case it's more like: you pay 10$ to use the private road for up to an hour and then you get paid 10-25$ every time you go to sabotage that new public road (and that takes around 5 minutes or less) Edited April 28, 2014 by WhisperByte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-SASMcBride Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 personnaly I think donating to clans or alliances for having no tax is a really bad idea, thats what the tax is for. If they dont want to tax a rail then they should pay for the upkeep on thier own, otherwise theres no point having taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaireWithBlankie Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Agreed, they're attacking that rail simply out of greed. I hope DE puts a limit on alliances to hinder these sort of actions. If your clan / alliance just isn't that dedicated, nothing can be done at all. If you don't like them get a bunch of other Clans or Alliances on board and wipe them out. If you can't then don't get all uptight about a Clan holding that much Space. Either take them on and take them out or get out of their way. This is part of how Dark Sectors work too. You don't sit back and wait for DE to nerf another Alliance for you. You go and find out what it'll take to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If your clan / alliance just isn't that dedicated, nothing can be done at all. If you don't like them get a bunch of other Clans or Alliances on board and wipe them out. If you can't then don't get all uptight about a Clan holding that much Space. Either take them on and take them out or get out of their way. This is part of how Dark Sectors work too. You don't sit back and wait for DE to nerf another Alliance for you. You go and find out what it'll take to beat them. Nail'd it right here. Seriously. Don't come onto the Forums and expect anyone who actually knows whats up to feel bad for you because you want to bark with the big dogs but can't because you're scared of being growled at. This all works in an incredibly simple fashion. Hate em? Beat em. Can't beat them? Get more guys on your side and try again. Be among the Clans who stand against Eclipse or kindly get out of their way so they can do new things. If you can't take the territory from them then they deserve it more then you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salishaz Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Greetings Tenno, I am the Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance. I have made a few posts trying to clear up some false information running around the Forums on Rail Missions. I humbly submit the following: - Rails take next to nothing to repair. These people claiming 10 or 20 million credits in repair costs are just wrong. I have personally, out of pocket, repaired something like 6 rails now. It costs next to nothing. Each 1% is roughly 2,500 credits. Maximum repair cost for a rail is just shy of 250K credits. With this low cost, RAIL MAINTENANCE COSTS SHOULD NEVER BE USED AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR A RAIL TAX! - Every clan and alliance that put up 0% rails in the beginning got challenged every chance possible by people claiming 0% rails. It got disgustingly expensive. We all were faced with two options: Possibly lose your rails or charge a tax to generate income for battle pay. Eclipse, and a great many others, chose to charge a tax. This was not something unique to Eclipse; they are just more visible because they have more rails. They should not be given any higher levels of forum hostility than any of the others. Many others (no, I don't mean Eclipse here) have been shown to be blatant liars, never intending to keep their promises. We chose to maintain our rails at 0%, and of the three we started with we have lost two. In all, Eclipse has shown perhaps more wisdom in their approach, given we have lost two of the three rails we started with and they have not lost any if I am not mistaken. The simple fact remains throughout all this that we would rather lose all our rails than go back on our original promise to maintain free rails forever. Not many others claimed free rails forever, but that was our commitment, and it is our duty to keep our promise. - It has been said Void Keys provide more profit than Dark Sector missions. The base pay for a Pluto Defense run (the one we provide) is currently 20,000-23,000 credits at wave 5. I have no idea why it fluctuates, but it never goes below 20K. I can complete these far faster than any T2 or T3 key other than Capture. - Dark Sector payouts in my opinion are your money, not ours. I have a credit booster on currently, so I make 40K-46K per run in Pluto Defense. There is no way I will be paying anyone a 25% tax (over 10,000 credits on average) to run their rails there. Any faction that charges a tax and pays out the entirety of that tax to battle pay is employing a redistribution of wealth for the sole purpose of keeping their name on the solar map. If we lose all our rails for not participating, which is admittedly quite likely, so be it. - Unless I am mistaken, the Dark Sector conflicts have been reduced to 12 hours, with three days of peace following. That should be taken into consideration when determining who it is you want to support. - I just can't understand why anyone would be motivated to have a portion of their credits taxed away just to have it given back to them in battle pay. This is not like a tax that actually provides anything for the players, like when a government taxes to build roads of fire departments or some other piece of infrastructure. If you are making the argument for taxes on that basis, you are laboring under a false analogy. The players in the community get nothing from being taxed. The ones who benefit from taxation and battle pay are the factions that get their name on the Star Chart. In the end, all we in the Shadows of Vengeance can do with Eclipse deploying a rail against us is offer a choice to the community: Do you want to have a free rail, or take the truly gargantuan Battle Pay and get taxed later. There is no way we can compete against the mighty Eclipse Alliance in Battle Pay, and we know it. They have us beaten hands down on that count. They are, from what I have heard, two Moon Clans with 4,000 members. That is just a rumor I heard, but I believe it. We in the Shadows of Vengeance are 5 active players. We have the support of the Guardians Alliance which we started and are the founders of, representing about 50 other players, but they are not able to assist us in battle pay. Even if we lose all our rails, we have gained something that is a far greater value to us: a good name among the community, and the trust of millions of players that know when we make a promise, we keep it. [insert Shameless Recruiting Plug] We are also always looking for people who would be a good fit in our clan. If you are interested in helping the community, having fun as a team, weekly record runs, and generally goofing off and laughing together, send me a mail on the forums or whisper me in game. You may find a home in the Shadows of Vengeance. May your every battle lead to victory, brothers and sisters of the Tenno. -Salishaz, Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance Edited April 28, 2014 by Salishaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander26 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Honestly, I hope Eclipse takes every single Rail. I hope they take them fast too, like the battles always lasting less than an hour. That way, we can end this farce and get a more compelling system in place. Cannot wait for Dark Sectors 2.0, DE tends to get it right the second time ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 They are, from what I have heard, two Moon Clans with 4,000 members. That is just a rumor I heard, but I believe it. I find it strange you would so readily believe such rumors when moon clans can only be 1000 members each, so 2 moon clans would equal 2000, not 4000. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salishaz Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I find it strange you would so readily believe such rumors when moon clans can only be 1000 members each, so 2 moon clans would equal 2000, not 4000. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a typo. Yeah, it was a combination of a typo and getting my numbers mixed up. Alliances can have 4K members total of all their participating clans, and I heard that is what they had. Ours is such a small clan I have honestly not looked at the numbers of higher tier clans in a long time. Totally my bad. - Salishaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotriusPyrelus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The simple fact remains throughout all this that we would rather lose all our rails than go back on our original promise to maintain free rails forever. Not many others claimed free rails forever, but that was our commitment, and it is our duty to keep our promise. ... Even if we lose all our rails, we have gained something that is a far greater value to us: a good name among the community, and the trust of millions of players that know when we make a promise, we keep it. And that's why you guys are @(*()$ awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadiantProxy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Honestly, I hope Eclipse takes every single Rail. I hope they take them fast too, like the battles always lasting less than an hour. That way, we can end this farce and get a more compelling system in place. Cannot wait for Dark Sectors 2.0, DE tends to get it right the second time ;). Precisely. ('Farce' is also a good choice of wording, heh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 There is still team irony. Doesn't support Eclipse (taxes are bad mkay ! 0% ftw !). Runs the Eclipse games and help Eclipse ends their conflicts faster for credits. And you know what, Eclipse probably doesn't care. Battle pay is meant to be given out as long they maintain dominance. So unless the 0% crew can convince them otherwise, you are fighting with your left hand actively helping the big bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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