List Of 0% Tribute Dark Sectors, Support Their Cause

[TsukiSui]

There is still team irony.

 

Doesn't support Eclipse (taxes are bad mkay ! 0% ftw !).

Runs the Eclipse games and help Eclipse ends their conflicts faster for credits.

As long as you're not playing their nodes and fight for them, they're losing credits.

[fatpig84]

As long as you're not playing their nodes and fight for them, they're losing credits.

But it doesn't matter.

 

Their goal is to keep the ground, they tax their own members 75%.

This ensures that even if people boycott their rails, their own members can keep it afloat.

 

Bleeding credits has very little impact on a large alliance like eclipse unless you are talking about a period of 3 months to 6 months.

By then DE might even have released more exclusive raid content, which might make owning Dark Sectors even more critical for game play.

Edited April 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[RavensNight]

The dark sectors are mostly for experience and resources , i mean how many time you can spam 5 waves for just some credits before you get bored.

And just tax on credits there's no real profit there for the any alliance that holds that rail , cause those credits has no way to go than back to the dark sectors , you don't take it home with you that's for sure.

And either way you look:

it's all about the credits be it 0% or not tax , cause after all your statements look we don't tax get free credits while the others look we tax you and give you decent battle pays and still can get credits from their tax rails also ,unless they have a really insane high tax (more credits again ,big deal,soon there be so many credits spread out there they won't count for nothing but ofc people will still do it for the credits - better to have than to end up lacking,no?), so unless someone start to tax resources you all stress yourselves for nothing.

[MJ12]

You know, if people didn't jump the gun and decide to attack 0% tax rails for the sole reason that they existed and thus needed to be attacked, because they were bad at economics, you'd probably have a lot more 0% tax rails. This whole attitude that an alliance "controls too many rails and needs to be laid low" just shows the toxicity here. People want 0% tax rails, yet are unwilling to deal with the fact that 0% tax rails will only exist if nobody attacks the rails.

 

Eclipse's rails were, in fact, 0% tax until people constantly started attacking them. It's not their fault that Eclipse has enacted wartime tax rates when people are continuously bringing war to them.

Edited April 28, 2014 by MJ12

[Darkjackal_2031]

You know, if people didn't jump the gun and decide to attack 0% tax rails for the sole reason that they existed and thus needed to be attacked, because they were bad at economics, you'd probably have a lot more 0% tax rails. This whole attitude that an alliance "controls too many rails and needs to be laid low" just shows the toxicity here. People want 0% tax rails, yet are unwilling to deal with the fact that 0% tax rails will only exist if nobody attacks the rails.

 

Eclipse's rails were, in fact, 0% tax until people constantly started attacking them. It's not their fault that Eclipse has enacted wartime tax rates when people are continuously bringing war to them.

Truth.

 

What was the logic behind attacking them?

 

"Look, Eclipse has the GALL to charge us nothing for extra xp! We better attack them so WE can charge people nothing for extra xp! Because, you know, we need to collect those 0% taxes!"

Edited April 28, 2014 by Darkjackal_2031

[Kartumterek]

You know, if people didn't jump the gun and decide to attack 0% tax rails for the sole reason that they existed and thus needed to be attacked, because they were bad at economics, you'd probably have a lot more 0% tax rails. This whole attitude that an alliance "controls too many rails and needs to be laid low" just shows the toxicity here. People want 0% tax rails, yet are unwilling to deal with the fact that 0% tax rails will only exist if nobody attacks the rails.

 

Eclipse's rails were, in fact, 0% tax until people constantly started attacking them. It's not their fault that Eclipse has enacted wartime tax rates when people are continuously bringing war to them.

 

 

Too bad this game is not their game, its our game. Just because you are first at the land rush doesnt entitle you to anything. But by all means, continue gobbling up the universe. I am not your employee so you guys can tax the entire playerbase to death, its their fault for enabling you anyway falling for that "for the greater good" crap.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

It's not their fault that Eclipse has enacted wartime tax rates when people are continuously bringing war to them.

 

It is, however, Eclipse's fault for choosing pixels over integrity.  And for what?  Pride at having their name plastared all over the solar system?  Pride at the cost of integrity is a poor trade to make.  It's not even like EVE where you get some meaningful power for controlling 'land'.  Credits are of finite value to an individual and of even less value to an alliance, since they cannot be (to my understanding) removed from the alliance vault, their only purpose to an alliance is to repair solar rails (which have been revealed to be vastly cheaper than the alleged 15 million for full repair figure originally quotes. The only reason to maintain such a absurd taxes is for "Epic Battle Pay", to maintain their stranglehold on the systems they own and make offensive pushes to take over the whole of the solar rails.

 

It's pathetic how we at large prove Hek's accusations of being nothing more than disgusting, honorless mercs.  Put me back in Cryosleep, Lotus, this isn't what I signed up for.

[MJ12]

It is, however, Eclipse's fault for choosing pixels over integrity.  And for what?  Pride at having their name plastared all over the solar system?  Pride at the cost of integrity is a poor trade to make.  It's not even like EVE where you get some meaningful power for controlling 'land'.  Credits are of finite value to an individual and of even less value to an alliance, since they cannot be (to my understanding) removed from the alliance vault, their only purpose to an alliance is to repair solar rails (which have been revealed to be vastly cheaper than the alleged 15 million for full repair figure originally quotes. The only reason to maintain such a absurd taxes is for "Epic Battle Pay", to maintain their stranglehold on the systems they own and make offensive pushes to take over the whole of the solar rails.

 

It's pathetic how we at large prove Hek's accusations of being nothing more than disgusting, honorless mercs.  Put me back in Cryosleep, Lotus, this isn't what I signed up for.

 

A promise isn't a suicide pact. I'm not in Eclipse, but I do know something about economics. And the moment you guys started attacking 0% rails for the sake of attacking 0% rails, you sent a message that 0% taxes wasn't worth it. That's not integrity. That's entitlement. You think that you deserve charity for daring to get angry about Eclipse controlling solar rails with 0% taxes.

 

You brought this onto yourselves, and Eclipse is entirely blameless here. And as for 'mercs', no. Warmongering maniacs is more like it. This isn't even a tragedy of the commons. People gained no benefit from attacking those rails. Yet people did anyways. People literally were willing to take a loss to hurt others.

Edited April 28, 2014 by MJ12

[PhotriusPyrelus]

A promise isn't a suicide pact. I'm not in Eclipse, but I do know something about economics. And the moment you guys started attacking 0% rails for the sake of attacking 0% rails, you sent a message that 0% taxes wasn't worth it. That's not integrity. That's entitlement. You think that you deserve charity for daring to get angry about Eclipse controlling solar rails with 0% taxes.

 

You brought this onto yourselves, and Eclipse is entirely blameless here. It's pathetic how you've proven that you're nothing more than disgusting, honorless psychopaths. At least mercenaries understand basic business.

 

Take your false accustations elsewhere.  Though I wouldd also lay this blame of 'unsustainability' at Eclipse's feet.  Like so many Empires, they overreached (they were the first to claim almost a full third of the Solar Rails!), and suddenly have trouble holding their claim.  Oh poor them.

[fatpig84]

I am just waiting for an alliance that decides to be the new king of the hill.

Smash all the small clans holding onto a single rail. Tax their own rails fairly, defend them.

Capture and annex more territory. If the small clans oppose, vaporize them, take their ground.

Grow powerful then challenge Eclipse.

 

To beat a giant alliance, become one yourself. 

We need power blocs in this game, and 26 is a nice number for 3 power blocs of 8 rails each. :3

Edited April 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[Kartumterek]

It is, however, Eclipse's fault for choosing pixels over integrity.  And for what?  Pride at having their name plastared all over the solar system?  Pride at the cost of integrity is a poor trade to make.  It's not even like EVE where you get some meaningful power for controlling 'land'.  Credits are of finite value to an individual and of even less value to an alliance, since they cannot be (to my understanding) removed from the alliance vault, their only purpose to an alliance is to repair solar rails (which have been revealed to be vastly cheaper than the alleged 15 million for full repair figure originally quotes. The only reason to maintain such a absurd taxes is for "Epic Battle Pay", to maintain their stranglehold on the systems they own and make offensive pushes to take over the whole of the solar rails.

 

It's pathetic how we at large prove Hek's accusations of being nothing more than disgusting, honorless mercs.  Put me back in Cryosleep, Lotus, this isn't what I signed up for.

 

 

dont forget about the armistice adding insult to injury

[MJ12]

Take your false accustations elsewhere.  Though I wouldd also lay this blame of 'unsustainability' at Eclipse's feet.  Like so many Empires, they overreached (they were the first to claim almost a full third of the Solar Rails!), and suddenly have trouble holding their claim.  Oh poor them.

 

The only 'overreach' that Eclipse managed was assuming that people would look at "0% taxes" and go "hey, these guys are doing a great service for us by giving us all this free stuff". And what false accusations? Are we forgetting that Eclipse's tax rates were a big fat flat 0% until they found out that no matter how low they set them people would challenge them because they're honorless psychopaths?

 

You guys are whining that you've surprise-attacked a massive alliance and now the alliance has increased taxes to pay for constant warfare. The solution, apparently, is to keep warring against them, driving their taxes ever higher, instead of just giving it up and saying "we won't attack if you set your taxes to 0%".

 

Because you're honorless psychopaths who don't mind hurting yourselves as long as it screws others.

[Shaznaught]

Couldn't bring myself to read all of this, but I'll be brief:

This tax rail system is a beautiful and simple example of a free-market system. It will work itself out if we leave it alone. Doing otherwise would be like passing legislation forcing mcdonalds to charge a certain price for fries. Let competition do its thing. Don't like it? Play other parts of the game. Form an uber alliance to take them down. Make Burger King and sell your fries cheaper.

Also, e-rage over virtual currency in a f2p game might be excessive. Deep breath and go slice some infested.

[Revenant102]

Lords of the East explicitly threw in the towel without doing serious damage, another did it for the lulz, and the current challenger preemptively declared that they are giving Clan Ghost Bear a free win. The other two didn't even put in much effort into it. Considering that the conflicts typically last 30+ hours it's not indicative of the community rather than an active minority supporting them (and their history of rail kills is much more shorter than Eclipse's rail at Sinai). Come back proclaiming Clan Ghost Bear's greatness when they face opponents on the level of what SoV faces on a consistent basis.

I desperately hope you're being willfully ignorant of the fact that they didn't paint a huge target on their back by building a small empire and instead choosing to stick to principle. Because stating the other options is distasteful.

I'm not calling CGB great, I appreciate that they're sticking to their guns regardless of if they're being attacked by 'strong' opponents on your metric. Eclipse can't run free rails because their empire is bloated with too many rails to sustain on charity or even a low tax rate. If you want me to sing their praises for grinding and taxing to offer good battle pay then I'm sorry but it's not gonna happen.

As to SoV, I'm not belittling their efforts either. I simply chose the first free rail that occurred to me and it happened to be CGB. Not everything is about superiority as you seen to feel.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Revenant102

[holdenagincourt]

This isn't even a tragedy of the commons. People gained no benefit from attacking those rails. Yet people did anyways. People literally were willing to take a loss to hurt others.

 

This isn't entirely true. If we consider why any given clan or alliance would want to be the one to control a rail that charges 0% tax rates, including the initial entrants, there are two possibilities.

 

1. The prestige value.

2. The experiential value of taking part in the new system of researching, crafting, deploying and defending rails, not to mention forming and managing alliances.

 

Given that there is no profit for either "firm" if both are willing to accept a price of 0, they would both anticipate one or both of these benefits from controlling the rail. I don't think I would have made the same decision as many clans and alliances made to challenge for control of rails at the first possible opportunity, but to contend that they only did so to "hurt others" spuriously dismisses the more likely interpretation that they simply wanted to acquire one of these two benefits.

[Lysander26]

I am just waiting for an alliance that decides to be the new king of the hill.

Smash all the small clans holding onto a single rail. Tax their own rails fairly, defend them.

Capture and annex more territory. If the small clans oppose, vaporize them, take their ground.

Grow powerful then challenge Eclipse.

 

To beat a giant alliance, become one yourself. 

We need power blocs in this game, and 26 is a nice number for 3 power blocs of 8 rails each. :3

 

We have always been at War with Eurasia

[OniDax]

Definitely opposing Eclipse now. Shadows of Vengeance has my support.

[Clone3216k]

dont forget about the armistice adding insult to injury

You seem really sour in a lot of your posts lol.

[Rydian]

- I just can't understand why anyone would be motivated to have a portion of their credits taxed away just to have it given back to them in battle pay.

Do you assume that the tax and battle pay always involve the same outside players and are equal in credit amount and equal in occurrence?  If so I can understand where that sentence is coming from, but neither of those assumptions are true.

 

I, for example, don't mind running rails that Eclipse currently runs and has a 25% tax on, like Amarna on Sedna.  Base credit payout is 8K for that particular mission.  A 25% tax on that means my base credit profit is 6K credits, and they earn 2K base credits.  I don't mind running it because it profits me in the resources and EXP too.

 

So Eclipse earns ~2K credits each time I run Amarna with the current setup.

 

And when Eclipse is in a conflict, I don't pay attention unless the battle pay is over 10K, because I generally need to gear up to deal with the specters and I'm too lazy to swap out the gear I'm ranking for my high-end gear unless the pay is 10K or more.  Generally 12-15K is what I aim for but I'll run for 10K if I need it.

 

So they earn 2K each time I run a dark sector mission (with me getting 6K), and then they pay me 10K+ whenever I bother to run  a conflict on their side.  Even with a 25% tax, I personally profit quite a bit and in fact am a drain on their resources.

 

 

 

But this brings up the question of where their credit stock comes from if they pay more than they earn from players like me, which I'm placing down here since it's not entirely related to my response to that section of your post.  In no particular order...

 

1 - Their own members contributing directly.  Not sure how much of an impact this is.

 

2 - Their own members running the dark sectors while they're open.  If these members are getting taxed but not getting battle pay then they are solely profit to the credit fund, right?

 

3 - Outside players that run the taxed rails over and over and over on purpose, not caring about the tax, since it's still more profit than regular missions and they're after the resource drops.  I have had multiple people tell me they don't care about the tax since they still get a positive income of credits and are after the drops and EXP anyways.

[Saenol]

Could an officer from Shadows of Vengeance contact me?

 

I would like to donate a million credits to your cause.

 

Void keys still offer the best credit income in this game, by a long shot.

 

It takes five minutes to do five waves of Sechura, which pays 23k credits, plus whatever resources and experience you accumulate. This is quite competitive.

 

T3 capture (the only void missions that can reliably be completed faster that pays appreciably more) keys aren't unlimited. I've run Sechura about 100 times in the last three days. I am not bringing in 30+ T3 capture keys a day.

 

Why are they still on the solar map? with all the hate they get, shouldn't most people say "Screw your battle pay!" and help the attacking clan?

 

just saying.

 

Surely you must realize that most players are either ignorant or scum.

 

I will purposely not support the 0% tax rails, because their battle pays are probably rubbish anyways.

 

You make more off 0% Pluto runs than most battle pays.

 

Sure the 10k+ battle pays can deliver more credits per minute, but only in very short bursts; The Alliance paying them out either runs out of money or the opposing rail is destroyed in sort order. In contrast, the Dark Sectors are around for what 48 hours at a minimum now? Unless you only play 30 minutes every few days, you are better off supporting a 0% rail, even if they pay no battle pay at all.

 

OMG, Eclipse is doing what Dark Sectors are intended for!

 

Dark Sectors were flawed in conception.

 

It's a terrible mechanism, with terrible reason behind it, and is not going to be good for Warframe.

 

 

We need power blocs in this game

 

No we don't.

 

You guys are whining that you've surprise-attacked a massive alliance and now the alliance has increased taxes to pay for constant warfare. The solution, apparently, is to keep warring against them, driving their taxes ever higher, instead of just giving it up and saying "we won't attack if you set your taxes to 0%".

 

This is the same tired argument every supporter of tyranny has argued since the beginning of civilization. It's never been true, and never could be.

 

No one is setting Eclipse's tax rates except Eclipse. No one is forcing their hand.

 

You yourself have just pointed out that challenges are inevitable, and excusing Eclipses actions because of the inevitable is laughable.

 

I, for example, don't mind running rails that Eclipse currently runs and has a 25% tax on, like Amarna on Sedna.  Base credit payout is 8K for that particular mission.  A 25% tax on that means my base credit profit is 6K credits, and they earn 2K base credits.  I don't mind running it because it profits me in the resources and EXP too.

 

So Eclipse earns ~2K credits each time I run Amarna with the current setup.

 

And when Eclipse is in a conflict, I don't pay attention unless the battle pay is over 10K, because I generally need to gear up to deal with the specters and I'm too lazy to swap out the gear I'm ranking for my high-end gear unless the pay is 10K or more.  Generally 12-15K is what I aim for but I'll run for 10K if I need it.

 

Sechura pays almost three times as much and you can do five waves in six minutes with mostly unranked gear, solo. With a group you can shave off even more time.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Saenol

[Rydian]

Sechura pays almost three times as much and you can do five waves in six minutes with mostly unranked gear, solo. With a group you can shave off even more time.

 

Sechura is 10K?

 

10K != 3 * 6K

 

Make sure you don't have a credit booster active?

[Saenol]

Sechura is 10K?

 

10K != 3 * 6K

 

Make sure you don't have a credit booster active?

 

Sechura is 23k.

 

And I have never had any boost active.

[LadyScootaloo]

Sechura does give 22/23k a run.

DEFEND SECHURA!!!!!!!!!!!

[SilentFears]

I would agree.

A tax of 10% on credits is completely understandable, and at that point the game-mode (defense or survival) is more of a determinant than tax rate when choosing a rail.

 

However, people who lie about using 0% taxes and then set 20-25% are corrupted by the greediest of milks.

They will always make excuses such as "We plan to set zero tax when we aren't under attack" or "Someone accidentally did it and now it's locked for X Hours".

Do not believe their lies.

Clans can and DO operate rails with 0% tax.

A rail at 10% should be more than enough, especially for large alliances whose members could contribute credits to repair rails.

What's that Eclipse? Having so many rails means you "Need" taxes?

Then it's time to lose some of your rails, seeing as they've become such a burden that you are Forced to tax your others.

 

Ehhh... ehhhhhhhhhhh do the freaking irony of what you write hits you in the face ? Couse it must hurt like hell.

First of all. You talking about greedy milk yet you dont find yourself greedy for wanting 20k instead of 17.5k credits ? 

Then you go on how large alliances can force their members to donate just so you dont lose them 2.5k credits from the tax. What was about that greedy milk you were talking ?

 

BTW taxes are there for two reasons. One its fuel for the battle pay - you know the 10-20k per 3 min run reward. Second taxes are need so a rail can be quickly opened to the public instead of 12 hours of lockdown ( yeah right now rails are burned down fast due to Decisive Judgement but this hype will be over soon ). 

 

 You are not the one to decide if we are a burden. Want to do something about us ? Well for one missinformation and propaganda is not the right way. Get your shadow clan in an alliance and go forward.

 

 

So in conclusion - dont be soo freaking greedy mate.

[LadyScootaloo]

Ehhh... ehhhhhhhhhhh do the freaking irony of what you write hits you in the face ? Couse it must hurt like hell.

First of all. You talking about greedy milk yet you dont find yourself greedy for wanting 20k instead of 17.5k credits ? 

Then you go on how large alliances can force their members to donate just so you dont lose them 2.5k credits from the tax. What was about that greedy milk you were talking ?

 

BTW taxes are there for two reasons. One its fuel for the battle pay - you know the 10-20k per 3 min run reward. Second taxes are need so a rail can be quickly opened to the public instead of 12 hours of lockdown ( yeah right now rails are burned down fast due to Decisive Judgement but this hype will be over soon ). 

 

 You are not the one to decide if we are a burden. Want to do something about us ? Well for one missinformation and propaganda is not the right way. Get your shadow clan in an alliance and go forward.

 

 

So in conclusion - dont be soo freaking greedy mate.

 

Fuel for battlepay that not everyone can be online for as opposed to the three day's worth of 25% tax.

Alternatively, defend Sechura and everyone gains a lot more than they lose in the long run.

 

The casuals are happy.

The elites are happy.

Eclipse, no idea.

SoV probably happy.

DEFEND SECHURA FROM TAXES!

FOR THE GLORY OF ALL TENNO, NOT JUST THOSE WHO CAN BE ONLINE DURING BATTLEPAY HOURS FOR ECLIPSE!