Removing Stat Helms Gives Older Players Yet Another Advantage

[achromos]

It's such a shame it had to work out this way. Unlike the majority of the community who frequently browses these forums, I don't have every helmet, because I haven't been playing for a long time. It seriously bothers me that there are some things that I could miss just because I wasn't here earlier. I understand this argument for exclusivity for founders, they funded the game and deserved it, but the people who got the event mods and now, these helmets, didn't do anything to earn them aside from playing the game at a certain time, which really is a slap in the face for everyone else, considering almost the whole point of the game is collecting. I know for a fact that there is zero possible way I could get MR16, but there are people who have it, and it doesn't feel fair. Removing the codex placeholder spots for these event weapons unless you have them is a good start, but I honestly won't feel right about it until they stop giving mastery.

 

Now with these helmets, it just feels like the wrong way of handling it. I can understand the notion of removing the stats, but all you're really doing is preventing new players from using it. Now there are people with a distinct advantage over everyone else. They can still abuse these powers as much as they like - these won't be fixed.

 

 

It's one thing to have exclusives like Excalibur Prime, who's only difference is cosmetic, or lato/skana prime, which are hardly even good enough to be viable at late levels, for people who paid to help fund the game into what it is today. It's another entirely to sever the community into two groups of people - old "elitist" players with distinct advantages, and newer "noob" players who can't have them. Luckily the event mods can be traded and possibly available at later dates, but these helmets have no method of being obtained by a new player as far as we know.

 

 

Trust me, in the long run, it'd just be better if all stats were removed from all helmets no questions asked. I can understand community frustration at this, and I know there will be extreme backlash to this idea, but I feel it will help keep the community together in the long run. The last thing it needs is to be separated by such silly advantages. A non-vanguard helmet rhino is honestly a "joke" in comparison to jack-of-all-trades rhino the rest of us will get to keep.

 

(Also, if the goal is really to keep cosmetics truly cosmetic differences only, then please, just move stats to something else. Maybe a gear slot item or something? I dunno. This way it can still be obtainable and separate, if that's desired.)

 

 

...don't even get me started about how little the non-forum dwellers know about this potential helmet stat takeaway. My brother has no idea and couldn't possibly prepare for it if I didn't tell him.

 

You mean he never checks the ingame market to wonder 'what a arcane helmet is, and why is it going away in x amount of days?'

[GeneralArmchair]

The devs never gave us the real reason why they're removing the stated helmets from the game.

 

There are really two possible options as far as game design is concerned.

 

1:  They want a player's helmet decision to be based on aesthetic preference and not min/maxing stats.  The ideal solution in this scenario is migrating the stats away from the helmet and onto some new invisible customization option for that frame.

 

2:  They feel that the stat changes create balance problems (Most notable in the Rhino Vanguard Helmet).  If this is the problem, then they should either nerf/buff the stats or remove them entirely.  If they're afraid of a backlash against the removal then they should just compensate us with something.  Platinum or legendary cores or the like.  They print their own platinum and legendary cores, they can do this.  Merely retiring the helmets is insufficient for fixing the balance problem because every unbalanced helmet in existence still exists.

 

Their choosen solution of phasing out the helmets is flawed regardless of the scenario.....unless ofcourse their real motivation is:

 

3:  Scare people into buying up helmets on the market to make a quick buck.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[TheBlueMagician]

The devs have mentioned that they want to add more RPG elements to the game, heavily implying more customization options, which means that if they wanted to do something like an implant chip with stat bonuses, stat helmets have to go.

 

Which is probably why they're being phased out. There's the focus system they've mentioned a lot of, but haven't detailed much of, and that might have something to do with it.

 

But noooooo, because the devs want to keep in-progress game mechanics under wraps until they are 90% sure on the implementation and thus make you less upset by constantly changing the system, you guys throw a fit.

 

Even if you don't get the stats, the idea that the stats are significant has been thoroughly debunked.

[Monster-T]

This people who are thinking that new players dont will have a problem with that are simply selfish. And in this thread are sadly many selfishs...
(I own every helm i need - just said)

[achromos]

This people who are thinking that new players dont will have a problem with that are simply selfish. And in this thread are sadly many selfishs...

(I own every helm i need - just said)

Look I know it sucks not being able to get something (hello, I want the founders pack but I learn to live without) and its not called being selfish, they can get it RIGHT NOW and they had since the game was available to now [depending upon when the helms came out] to be able to get the Arcane helmets.  It isn't selfish to tell people to suck it up, it's selfish to complain just because you or someone in the future might not have them.  Life is full of missed opportunity's and I highly doubt missing a helmet that gives you a stat buff here or there are going to be the high point on that list of things a person wished he/she would have been quicker about.

[PeterKha]

The devs never gave us the real reason why they're removing the stated helmets from the game.

 

There are really two possible options as far as game design is concerned.

 

1:  They want a player's helmet decision to be based on aesthetic preference and not min/maxing stats.  The ideal solution in this scenario is migrating the stats away from the helmet and onto some new invisible customization option for that frame.

 

2:  They feel that the stat changes create balance problems (Most notable in the Rhino Vanguard Helmet).  If this is the problem, then they should either nerf/buff the stats or remove them entirely.  If they're afraid of a backlash against the removal then they should just compensate us with something.  Platinum or legendary cores or the like.  They print their own platinum and legendary cores, they can do this.  Merely retiring the helmets is insufficient for fixing the balance problem because every unbalanced helmet in existence still exists.

 

Their choosen solution of phasing out the helmets is flawed regardless of the scenario.....unless ofcourse their real motivation is:

 

3:  Scare people into buying up helmets on the market to make a quick buck.

They're removing it because more people complained about bad stats than good ones. Like why should they be forced into using an ugly helmet rather than a good looking helmet when the stats on the bad ones are somewhat decent to the ones on the good looking ones. They planned to remove helmets when Nekros came out when his helmet was the first to be pure cosmetic.

 

Also, rather than going back and toning each helmet because that would be so time consuming to try and make each helmet equally as good as the others (even though the bonuses are so little you can barely notice them) they decided to remove stats in the future from future helms and what not also.

[Tymerc]

Look I know it sucks not being able to get something (hello, I want the founders pack but I learn to live without) and its not called being selfish, they can get it RIGHT NOW and they had since the game was available to now [depending upon when the helms came out] to be able to get the Arcane helmets.  It isn't selfish to tell people to suck it up, it's selfish to complain just because you or someone in the future might not have them.  Life is full of missed opportunity's and I highly doubt missing a helmet that gives you a stat buff here or there are going to be the high point on that list of things a person wished he/she would have been quicker about.

Well said.

[GeneralArmchair]

They're removing it because more people complained about bad stats than good ones. Like why should they be forced into using an ugly helmet rather than a good looking helmet when the stats on the bad ones are somewhat decent to the ones on the good looking ones. They planned to remove helmets when Nekros came out when his helmet was the first to be pure cosmetic.

 

Also, rather than going back and toning each helmet because that would be so time consuming to try and make each helmet equally as good as the others (even though the bonuses are so little you can barely notice them) they decided to remove stats in the future from future helms and what not also.

If that is truly the reason behind their decision, then their choice of solution is very perplexing since it doesn't solve the problem very well.

 

As has been stated many times before, migrating the stats to some new invisible customization option would have more cleanly solved the problem.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[FateZero]

If that is truly the reason behind their decision, then their choice of solution is very perplexing since it doesn't solve the problem very well.

 

As has been stated many times before, migrating the stats to some new invisible customization option would have more cleanly solved the problem.

How does that not solve the problem? People will have to choice to use whatever helm they want without worrying about crap stats.

Maybe you didn't read the announcement that [DE]Drew posted clearly or at all...

 

Just because the majority agree with something, does not mean it is the right course of action. As it has been said many times before, if you truely disagree, go make your own game. btw I'm part of a minority.

Edited May 5, 2014 by FateZero

[GeneralArmchair]

How does that not solve the problem? People will have to choice to use whatever helm they want without worrying about crap stats.

Maybe you didn't read the announcement that [DE]Drew posted clearly or at all...

It doesn't solve the problem because all of the pre-existing helmets still exist.

 

You're only looking at the situation where a helmet has poor stats and a player feels hamstrung using it over a statless helmet.  You're ignoring the situation where a helmet has superior stats and a player feels like their gimping themselves for using anything lesser.

 

The Vanguard Rhino helmet is still the perfect example.  Like many players, I have an arcane vanguard helmet.  The fact that new vanguard and thrak helmets have neutral stats does nothing to change the fact that the arcane vanguard helmet has superb stats.  I'll always be better off using my old vanguard helmet over the other two despite the fact that I dislike the vanguard helmet's aesthetics.  DE's solution does nothing to place the helmets on equal footing for me or anyone else who has a legacy vanguard helmet.

 

Removing stats from helmets is ONLY a solution to the aesthetic problem if they wipe them clean from all of the pre-existing legacy helmets.

 

In contrast, migrating the stats away from the helmets and to some new transparent customization option would have solved the problem perfectly.  Then I would be free to choose whatever helmet I aesthetically prefer without stats influencing my decision.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[Bryy]

Advantage OVER GRINEER AND CO. yes !

 

We are all tennos

We are all in the same team

No competition whatsoever

Be glad your brothers can have more power

They are on your team

Objective is to win against the enemy not against fellow tenno

This guy's right.

If you're the strongest Tenno in your squad, find a new squad.

[Tymerc]

So sick of people constantly bringing up Rhino's Vanguard helmet. 

Rhino Prime is naturally faster than Rhino, and can be obtained by everyone. There's also the Sprint Boost aura, and the Rush Warframe mod. Both of which that can also be obtained by everyone.

If that's not good enough for you, then tough luck. The helmets are still able to be obtained as of right now. It's your own fault if you don't get one while you're still able to.

 

 

Also, try reading this:

 

Look I know it sucks not being able to get something (hello, I want the founders pack but I learn to live without) and its not called being selfish, they can get it RIGHT NOW and they had since the game was available to now [depending upon when the helms came out] to be able to get the Arcane helmets.  It isn't selfish to tell people to suck it up, it's selfish to complain just because you or someone in the future might not have them.  Life is full of missed opportunity's and I highly doubt missing a helmet that gives you a stat buff here or there are going to be the high point on that list of things a person wished he/she would have been quicker about.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Tymerc

[Arphila]

Honestly some of you people are so silly.

 

I joined WF much later than most people here and I missed out on certain skins/weapons/mods ect and you know what? I'm still ok with it. Yeah I wish I had that special event weapon that's better than it's counter part, or had a fun looking skin but it doesn't effect how I play.

 

Heck because I missed out on some weapons it means I'll never be a higher mastery rank when other people can.

 

I've played plenty of MMO games where later down the road things are changed/removed but people who originally had the item keep it as is because they worked for it, bought it in game, ect. And the fact that people are saying it gives an advantage to older players, what the heck? Last I checked this game was PVE focused, don't you want your teammates to be strong? Or do you want to gimp them? Really sounds like you want to gimp them because you're butt hurt over the fact you couldn't get a certain item in time.

[CandyDragon]

The word of the day is Entitlement.

 

Everyone has tons of it. Most against the stats staying seem to feel that every part of the game should be balanced towards their individual progress.  Which, in ye olden days of single player content was true.

 

Sorry your two months or less of playing isn't weighed as heavily as the countless others who've stuck with Warframe since launch. 

You still have a chance to get these items.  If you can't figure out how to do it outside of alerts without spending money, well that's your own fault.

But *@##$ing and invalidating peoples investment be it time or money simply as a "I cant have this, so no one should" is nonsense.

[GrayFox]

The word of the day is Entitlement.

 

Everyone has tons of it. Most against the stats staying seem to feel that every part of the game should be balanced towards their individual progress.  Which, in ye olden days of single player content was true.

 

Sorry your two months or less of playing isn't weighed as heavily as the countless others who've stuck with Warframe since launch. 

You still have a chance to get these items.  If you can't figure out how to do it outside of alerts without spending money, well that's your own fault.

But *@##$ing and invalidating peoples investment be it time or money simply as a "I cant have this, so no one should" is nonsense.

^I'm with this.

Some people actually camped those alerts just to get those helmets (may it be because for their build or for collecting purposes). Advantage on min-maxing ? Tell me a comparable game where almost everyone has or can have the same level of min-maxing right on the dot. Let's just say all of the players in warframe maxed out all of their mods, have the same number of formas and polarities on frames and weapons and that helmet becomes the "edge" as you say. Will that really ruin the game? No. It just touched your issue of not everyone getting it. Hell, shout that for Primed Chamber as well while you're on it.

[DoomHarbinger]

What if its someone who has never spent a dime on Warframe and got all the helms through alerts? That's not helping the game. What helps games develop is useful, constructive feedback and intelligent design choices. Leaving broken crap in because you're afraid to offend people by taking it out (presumably) isn't intelligent design choice. Again, you may as well be saying to allow people to keep weapons which have been nerf-balanced simply because "they were there first". 

I've spent money on the game. I've run alerts. I'm perfectly OK with them deciding that statted helms are out in favor of a more functional tweak system down the road. Why would you not be, because having stuff other people don't makes you feel better about yourself? I'm not sure why you'd be against changes which will, overall, improve the game.

I bought about 4 helm with plat for the stats before they were even released on alerts, is it fair that they remove them? that is 20$ before they used Alerts, tell me why is it so bad that the way they are handling it now doesn't work for you? we have already stated that the stats are minor to nothing really that cannot be achieved by mods, Also they stated a month or more before they were going to remove them, is it fair to new players that started, no not that much, but the differences is so minimal is it really a problem? You know as well as I do that we are in "BETA" so things change alot or get exclusive status, EX. Strun Wraith, Prime Chamber, EXCALIBUR PRIME.

 

 

Take in mind exclusivity is not the best way to go but that's DE's fault for doing such.

[Kalenath]

The word of the day is Entitlement.

 

Everyone has tons of it. Most against the stats staying seem to feel that every part of the game should be balanced towards their individual progress.  Which, in ye olden days of single player content was true.

 

Sorry your two months or less of playing isn't weighed as heavily as the countless others who've stuck with Warframe since launch. 

You still have a chance to get these items.  If you can't figure out how to do it outside of alerts without spending money, well that's your own fault.

But *@##$ing and invalidating peoples investment be it time or money simply as a "I cant have this, so no one should" is nonsense.

 

But... but... but... They want it, so they should get it. Who CARES if they earned it! This is the modern world after all and people don't actually have to EARN things, now do they?

 

Sarcasm aside, these threads about 'I missed something so I am going to complain and hope I get it for free' are getting old.

[achromos]

But... but... but... They want it, so they should get it. Who CARES if they earned it! This is the modern world after all and people don't actually have to EARN things, now do they?

 

Sarcasm aside, these threads about 'I missed something so I am going to complain and hope I get it for free' are getting old.

 

But if I cannot have it, or if people in the future cannot have it THEN NOBODY SHOULD HAVE IT.  RAwrarwar I'm entitled to everything veterans are, now give me the stuff from the founders pack too, raaaaaah!!

 

...yea.

[Rainbee]

Strawman of the year award

- This thread

[Azawarau]

Look I know it sucks not being able to get something (hello, I want the founders pack but I learn to live without) and its not called being selfish, they can get it RIGHT NOW and they had since the game was available to now [depending upon when the helms came out] to be able to get the Arcane helmets.  It isn't selfish to tell people to suck it up, it's selfish to complain just because you or someone in the future might not have them.  Life is full of missed opportunity's and I highly doubt missing a helmet that gives you a stat buff here or there are going to be the high point on that list of things a person wished he/she would have been quicker about.

Up to 7 million players can get it now

 

Anyone who joins after these next few days will miss out

[(PSN)DavidBallZ]

Up to 7 million players can get it now

 

Anyone who joins after these next few days will miss out

That's their problem.

[CicaedaV]

only there's no advantage because its co-op game, you team up with strong player, you win as well?

[Methanoid]

wow some older players have helms with stats?

 

[RXZ71]

I like option 3. Mos of the helmets with decent stats are ugly in my opinion, and the ones with worse r.more pretty.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Again, why not just balance the helmet stats so every frame can have the same type of advantages?  No one sees an issue with Trinity having helmet stats while Oberon has none?  Besides, a 25% bonus regardless of what it does is far too good for a helmet bonus.

Edited May 5, 2014 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph