Excalibur 2.0 - We Are Almost There!

[Insidiatorii]

Should of just kept with holding down the jump key to super jump... in my opinion :)

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

Excal is my favourite frame, mainly because his efficiency depends primarily on the skill of the player, and I'd love to see him buffed. Also, I feel he is one of the best looking frames...

Edit: I love the super charge idea. Move over, Volt.

Edited August 11, 2014 by (PS4)Strifedecer

[r0ckwolf]

Excal is my favourite frame, mainly because his efficiency depends primarily on the skill of the player, and I'd love to see him buffed. Also, I feel he is one of the best looking frames...

Edit: I love the super charge idea. Move over, Volt.

i agree, excalibur just looks best!^^ let´shope they bring his abilitys up to the awesomness of his looks.

[(PSN)theelix]

Hi,

i always loved Excalibur, i remember seeing the closed Alpha Trailer for Warframe, where it was him chopping down a bunch of Grineer in Ninja fashion, that is what made me start playing Warframe.^^ 

 

It is all the more dissapointing to me that he seems so left out of all the Frame discussions lately and that he hasn´t seen some DE love for quiet some time.^^ None of his Abilitys are broken in any way, but except Radial Blind they all kinnda fall very flat compared to other Abilitys in the game.

 

Since DE is currently workin on Abilitys i thought i share what i would like to see for them to change on good ol´Excal´:

 

Excalibur:

 

***edit: someone recently pointed out to me, that with these changes, Excalibur would turn into the head on Samurai Warrior Frame, he always wanted him to be!^^ That´s what i had in mind!

 

Slash Dash:

Buffed base damage to 600 Slash Damage; Forced Bleed proc; Increases the Melee hit-Counter by 1 per Enemy hit -> will deal multiplied damage based on the Combo Hit multiplier!

 

Super Jump:

->Changed to "Super Charge"- Energy Cost increased to 75E - Duration ~12seconds 

Increased sprint speed by 10% 

Increased Melee Attackspeed by 20%

Increased Staminapool by 100%

Increased Staminaregen by 75%

Channeling efficency increased by ~60% (unaffected by Power Strenght)

***Excalibur is in a permanent channeling state while this Ability is active

 

Radial Javelin: Added an additional Shockwave in a small (~8m) radius around Excal upon castin for 800 Blastdamage, Enemys hit by the shockwave are Ragdolled; Forced random physical Proc on the Javelins!!!

***(added invulnerability frames during casting animations)

 

*note*:

-The Slash Dash changes are meant for overall better damage output. The Bleed Proc and Melee multiplier will help it scale with higher level enemies and increases it´s synergy with "Super Charge". - It really should get the same treatment as ash´s abilitys have, it would fit the theme and it´s execution very well!!!

-Super Charge will greatly inceases Excal´s overall combat potential, by making him a more agreesive melee Frame that can maintain long combos if survivability is provided. This fits much better with his overall Theme as a Frame based on Sword attacks! - Greatly increased energy cost + permanent channeling will keep you from spamming this ability though, to balance it´s high damage potential.

-Radial Javelin is much more dependent on your positioning in a fight then most other aoe damage based ults in the game, for that reason i increased it´s damage outputt greatly up close and addied some minor utility with the ragdoll. The procs should also make it a bit more usefull with higher level enemys!

----------------------------------------------

 

You may ask: "WUT?!?!", Don´t you dare touch my Super Jump, i love it and it´s usefulblablablabla!" Well....

I AGREE!!!^^

 

And this is my solution: 

 

I always felt that Super Jump is extermely usefull and fits the theme of having a powerfull ninja-sci fi, exoskeleton very well, but it´s also insanely situational and overshadowed by a lot of other powers in the game. It would, in my humble opinion, make a lot of sense to incorporate Super Jump into the basic move set of all Warframes by simply holding the Jump Key and charging up your Jump by doing that! 

Ofcourse it still needs to cost energy and maybe some stamina as well, to prevent infinite spamming and not making wallruns and parkour obsolete, but it would fit well with every Warframe and would be a great addition to the mobility-movement pool.

 

Well what do you Guys think?^^ 

Super

charge would be HORRIBLY overpowered. 

 

Think about it, it puts volt's thing to shame and... Sadly it kinda doesn't make sense too. I'm not saying it's a horribly bad idea but look at what you put the energy consumption to and then look at the effect. What if someone uses this and then has no energy, but Excalibur is in a permenantly channeled state? No no no, that doesn't make any sense UNLESS you make it so that it slowly uses that energy. Instead of having a time based duration, have a reserved energy duration.

 

You can reserve 75 energy to use this ability and Sprinting takes.... .3 energy per second lets say. Get rid of the stamina buffs and do the same with attacking but at maybe .5 per SUCCESSFUL(must be stressed or else someone with dual zorens or fangs will use all their energy coptering) strikes. And then the channeling would be hard to work in being permenant yet have 60+ efficiency.

You would definitely have to Lower the base energy to 25, and then add 25 per rank with three ranks and this would have to be toggleable. That way, if you haven't changed the channeling efficiency, it would be like, 2 energy per attack, I think 2 or 1 per block. 

Though I'm not sure how you'd make duration, power and efficiency work. Because... Efficiency would kinda make this work backwards, making you reserve less energy but with the same costs... Unless it changes the drain of doing things, but I'd think duration would do that and power strength would change... Something. I'm not sure what but it'd probably change sprint speed. What would Blind Rage do, though? Since that would mean you reserve more energy and have more strength, This ability would almost literally become the kill. @(*()$. EVERYTHING!!! ability.  You'd also have to kind of make it a team buff, since it has nothing to increase your survivability, and it'd only be a self buff, it'd be very wierd. 

 

I dunno, maybe I'm over thinking this whole thing but I don't like the idea of super charge unless it is SEVERLY looked over.

Edited August 11, 2014 by (PS4)theelix

[pkfire.]

I agree Excal is in my top 3 frames. I use a radial blind build and its an amazing skill. But, his other abilities doe need some kind of changes or buffs. His ult is really the thing that needs a buff because it doesn't scale at all. Same with slash dash.  Although, I love his mobility and balance and plan on having another Excal for a completely different build than my radial blind one.

[RahuHordika]

All this thanks to Blind. For the uninitiated, i translate the mysterious and luscious 'if you know how to use him' =spam Radial Blind..

Unfortunately most of the time this is the reason I see people 'defending' 'Cal with. More often that not I see that people use Blind as the justification for everything else he does (or rather lacks at) and claim him as pitch perfect.

 

Yes he has decent mobility but he is meant to be a Jack-of-all-trades, he's supposed to perform well in several areas and exceed at none (as you, Yaer, have stated). Yes RB is undeniably good but that does not excuse him of having his other abilities perform underwhelmingly on their own for their intended use and contrary to what some people seem to think his ablities are not meant to be balanced all around RB.

 

While I have no comment on the super jump I do feel it's rather situational, however since I cannot give an idea for a tweak to it I'm not talking about it.

 

Slash Dash is his signature ability, yet it easily falls off as son as levels rise. Many suggestions have risen, which I agree with, such as forced bleed proc, more damage, combo count, etc. but one I personally think could be benefitial would be having SD inherit some traits of your current melee equipped (since that's what you use anyways), not necesarily all but I think a chance of applying equpped elemental damage (for example) would be a nice buff.

 

Radial Jav downright needs a buff, I've seen some buffs linking it to melee, making it deal more damage, pierce through walls/enemies, adding CC and such. Although to be fair with the concept there isn't much to work with so I canno say much on the matter.

[r0ckwolf]

Super

charge would be HORRIBLY overpowered. 

 

Think about it, it puts volt's thing to shame and... Sadly it kinda doesn't make sense too. I'm not saying it's a horribly bad idea but look at what you put the energy consumption to and then look at the effect. What if someone uses this and then has no energy, but Excalibur is in a permenantly channeled state? No no no, that doesn't make any sense UNLESS you make it so that it slowly uses that energy. Instead of having a time based duration, have a reserved energy duration.

 

You can reserve 75 energy to use this ability and Sprinting takes.... .3 energy per second lets say. Get rid of the stamina buffs and do the same with attacking but at maybe .5 per SUCCESSFUL(must be stressed or else someone with dual zorens or fangs will use all their energy coptering) strikes. And then the channeling would be hard to work in being permenant yet have 60+ efficiency.

You would definitely have to Lower the base energy to 25, and then add 25 per rank with three ranks and this would have to be toggleable. That way, if you haven't changed the channeling efficiency, it would be like, 2 energy per attack, I think 2 or 1 per block. 

Though I'm not sure how you'd make duration, power and efficiency work. Because... Efficiency would kinda make this work backwards, making you reserve less energy but with the same costs... Unless it changes the drain of doing things, but I'd think duration would do that and power strength would change... Something. I'm not sure what but it'd probably change sprint speed. What would Blind Rage do, though? Since that would mean you reserve more energy and have more strength, This ability would almost literally become the kill. @(*()$. EVERYTHING!!! ability.  You'd also have to kind of make it a team buff, since it has nothing to increase your survivability, and it'd only be a self buff, it'd be very wierd. 

 

I dunno, maybe I'm over thinking this whole thing but I don't like the idea of super charge unless it is SEVERLY looked over.

well... where to begin?!

 

The stamina buff was mainly meant for making blocking and long melee chains viable in high level situations since your stamina pretty much instantly depletes when you try to block some shots from a heavy gunner lvl~50. I really can´t see how the mobility aspect would be anywhere near being over powered and it´s far less speed then volt´s "speed" provides.

-sprinting doesn´t cost energy..so...whaat??? oO

-Blind Rage would increase all attributes except the channeling efficency, which is perfectly fine.

 

To make this perfectly clear... we´re taking about increasing the channeling efficency, not channeling damage! It doesn´t add any damage at all to anything! It is a complete utility/support ability meant to increase the inherent strengths of excalibur. The channeling efficency could go down to 0 with additional use of mods, that´s true, but only if you don´t use channeling mods, the other way to see it would be that it incourages the use of different and more channeling mods on your builds, which is hardly possible with the regular energy drain. 

 

In between all that critizism, i actually saw something i liked.^^ What happens when you use the ability and don´t have energy left?! That was indeed giving me a headache, making it toggable is the obvious answer and i will update the main post accordingly!^^

Edited August 22, 2014 by r0ckwolf

[r0ckwolf]

updated to reflect upcoming changes, as announced in 14.6.1/9.12.14!

[wtrmlnjuc]

I like it, makes Excalibur a lot better as the "melee"/"sword" frame.

 

 Not sure about super jump being something every frame has, though.

[r0ckwolf]

I like it, makes Excalibur a lot better as the "melee"/"sword" frame.

 

 Not sure about super jump being something every frame has, though.

glad you like it.^^ I struggled with super jump as well, at first. but i cam to the conclusion that it is very situational, mostly becuz the level design rarely allows for it to being used. An inclusion into the generall movement pool seems appropiate to me.

[r0ckwolf]

added Radial Blind to Mainpost to react to the upcoming changes!

[Monolake]

  I probably posted in this topic already (its so old)

 

Slash dash   needs its collision detection fixed first cause it often doesn't do any damage to the targets you hit. Then it absolutely needs more damage, 500 slash is not cutting even lvl15 light armor.

Melee combo multi alone - not much use, if you are in melee you will just go on meleeing, you can slide-attack or do a combo for much more damage, why waste energy on ability.  I suggest instead adding your melee weapon attack to Slash dash, I mean exact attack of your weapon with all the mods and crit chances - this would make the ability be useful in higher levels and vs specific enemies and add to melee playstyle nicely. 

 

Radial Blind   I already said what I think: there is no justification for making it half-useless with geometry blocking as long as all the other CC(and most damage) skills are passing though walls. This is not balancing quite the opposite, this will gimp this ability and force everyone to use fully-working CC frames instead. 

 

Ult (Radial Skanas) needs: targeting fixed so its not missing half the targets around, remove the ~2sec lock in post-cast animation that gets you killed, add punch-trough so the javelins are not blocked by every tiny thing. 

This would solve the core problems of this ability and make it actually usable. The damage and utiliy are debatable, but these 3 things are a must.  

Force bleed proc is strong, cause it ignores armor. But I'd rather have it deal fixed number +20% current enemy HP damage per javelin to make it scaling and not op/useless regardless of levels. 

I don't think ult should have stun/CC functionality, thats what RB is for. Don't make  2-skils in one, rather compliment each other.

 

SuperCharge idea is too much like Volt 'Speed. 

SuperJump needs to be higher by default to not require Blind Rage, possible not even depend on Power but on Duration mods (to be moddable like Ex other utiliy abilites) 

 

 

 

Summary TLDR^

-SlashDash: fix collison, add equipped melee attack damage to it

-RadialBlid: NO to geometry blocking as long as all the other abilities are not blocked

-Ultimate: fix targeting, remove 2sec post cast anim, add punch-through, add %scaling damage 

Edited September 12, 2014 by Monolake

[aldlv13]

yeah the balancing team doesnt know what the word balance means so youre just gonna have to live with their boneheaded decisions

[vaugahn]

yeah the balancing team doesnt know what the word balance means so youre just gonna have to live with their boneheaded decisions

 

Bioshock 1 multiplayer and a half dozen unreal games say otherwise. 

[aldlv13]

Bioshock 1 multiplayer and a half dozen unreal games say otherwise. 

never played those but if those games were made by DE and had balance then they used a completely different team

[vaugahn]

never played those but if those games were made by DE and had balance then they used a completely different team

 

Funny you should say that, because they actually used the exact same team. The reason why they were balanced and this game isn't is because they were complete (and this game isn't)

[aldlv13]

Funny you should say that, because they actually used the exact same team. The reason why they were balanced and this game isn't is because they were complete (and this game isn't)

right it totally isnt because they are incompetent or anything you have changed my perspective completely good on you mate

[tocorro]

my only suggestion :

 

Radial Javelin   ->   Wall of Swords

For starters he shoots out something that looks like swords more than javelins.

He would summon a LOT of swords behind his back (how many is a thing to discuss) in a shape of wings, a fan or heck even simple wall (swords side by side). In terms of power of the skill I have no ideas - so open to suggestions.

Swords made of light or energy. Activly tracking enemies. Because they're made of energy/light they are insta-hit. They ragdoll enemies and pin them to the walls immobilizing them for few seconds. So even if enemy isn't killed instantly it will give a time to regroup, or finish off pinned enemy.

If there isn't enough enemies Wall of Swords follows Excal and hits every enemy that will get in range. Skill should last 10 sec ? After that swords should fade away. Also casting animation should be somewhat quick. This changes should make Excal ult on par with other warframes.

 

Idea similiar to this :

   - fate stay night, Archers Infinite Blade Works

[a-Arcadia]

Super charge... i like my high jumpin, so maybe add double jump while its active.

[Quill.Onkko]

How do you think Slash Dash should be revised?

when u have ur melee weapon equiped it will be used as utility to close in on ur enemy to perform the combos

when u have ur main or secondary make it a 2 staged ability:(first stage) its like the normal slash dash but its damage is depends on ur melee weapon damage (second stage) excalibur spins around himself [much like the loki's radial disarm animation] and does AoE damage based on his overall ability strength

 

How do you think Super Jump should be revised?

remove it completely we all know warframe levels have no high ceilings zypher is only playable on earth :P and a little on phobos

 

How do you think Radial Javelin should be revised?

make it a radial ability (globe) and make it pin enemies to walls

affected by ( duration[more time enemies are pinned on walls] // range // strength )

[r0ckwolf]

  I probably posted in this topic already (its so old)

 

Slash dash   needs its collision detection fixed first cause it often doesn't do any damage to the targets you hit. Then it absolutely needs more damage, 500 slash is not cutting even lvl15 light armor.

Melee combo multi alone - not much use, if you are in melee you will just go on meleeing, you can slide-attack or do a combo for much more damage, why waste energy on ability.  I suggest instead adding your melee weapon attack to Slash dash, I mean exact attack of your weapon with all the mods and crit chances - this would make the ability be useful in higher levels and vs specific enemies and add to melee playstyle nicely. 

 

Radial Blind   I already said what I think: there is no justification for making it half-useless with geometry blocking as long as all the other CC(and most damage) skills are passing though walls. This is not balancing quite the opposite, this will gimp this ability and force everyone to use fully-working CC frames instead. 

 

Ult (Radial Skanas) needs: targeting fixed so its not missing half the targets around, remove the ~2sec lock in post-cast animation that gets you killed, add punch-trough so the javelins are not blocked by every tiny thing. 

This would solve the core problems of this ability and make it actually usable. The damage and utiliy are debatable, but these 3 things are a must.  

Force bleed proc is strong, cause it ignores armor. But I'd rather have it deal fixed number +20% current enemy HP damage per javelin to make it scaling and not op/useless regardless of levels. 

I don't think ult should have stun/CC functionality, thats what RB is for. Don't make  2-skils in one, rather compliment each other.

 

SuperCharge idea is too much like Volt 'Speed. 

SuperJump needs to be higher by default to not require Blind Rage, possible not even depend on Power but on Duration mods (to be moddable like Ex other utiliy abilites) 

 

 

 

Summary TLDR^

-SlashDash: fix collison, add equipped melee attack damage to it

-RadialBlid: NO to geometry blocking as long as all the other abilities are not blocked

-Ultimate: fix targeting, remove 2sec post cast anim, add punch-through, add %scaling damage 

Melee multiplier has of a lot of use dude..oO, you hit 5 enemys and already deal +50% damage +bleed proc + increaesed base damage. The melee weapon damage thing sounds good, but it´s just too much, think about a single slash dash with your dragon nikana f.e (~10kdmg).

 

I thought Radial Blind was fine as well compared to all the other abilitys, but on the other hand, a lot of the other stuff is also a bit op....cough..Stomp... anyone... so this is an attempt to work with what we got!

 

Radial Javelin needs something to make up for it´s long and dangerous casting time, i effectively doubled it´s damage, to make it on par with other ults and gave it minor utility with the close proximity ragdoll to encourage it to be used in melee encounters that turn out to get ugly for you, so you can create space between you and your enemys.

I like the idea of it being a high risk, high reward kinnda ability, homing missiles wouldn´t go with that concept, but it might be cool in another vision of excalibur, that isn´t as melee focused as mine.^^

 

I don´t think Super charge is at all like Speed! it gives a very minor speed and attack speed buff, far less then both speed and warcry do, BUT it gives you something equally important in melee encounters that no other ability does, Stamina. Have you ever tried to fight an lvl 70 Heavy gunner melee style? If you charge him straight on, you´re dead before you get there, if you try and block to get close your stamina is empty in an heartbeat and again you find yourself in mortal danger. Super Charge helps with that, as it lets you block more carefree and maintain long hard hitting combos with it´s added channeling efficency! It is completely different to Speed!!!

Edited September 13, 2014 by r0ckwolf

[r0ckwolf]

yeah the balancing team doesnt know what the word balance means so youre just gonna have to live with their boneheaded decisions

Balancing has to start somewhere, if you have any experience in competitive gaming you should know that it is an never ending process. I would agree that DE has , by far, payed not enough attention to it. But consider how heavily the game is under development and at which pace they release Updates loaded with new content and gamechanging other things.

 

They work hard and they brought us a game that´s fun to play! Give credit where credit is due, but help make things better that still need work!

[Monolake]

Melee multiplier has of a lot of use dude..oO, you hit 5 enemys and already deal +50% damage +bleed proc + increaesed base damage. The melee weapon damage thing sounds good, but it´s just too much, think about a single slash dash with your dragon nikana f.e (~10kdmg).

 

 

You already have that weapon and do that damage, so you dont need a punny 500-1000 damge skill that costs you energy. It wouldn't be too much or too litlle, it would compliment the weapons you already have. It wont make new players OP either as they still have low-damage weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radial Javelin needs something to make up for it´s long and dangerous casting time, i effectively doubled it´s damage, to make it on par with other ults and gave it minor utility with the close proximity ragdoll to encourage it to be used in melee encounters that turn out to get ugly for you, so you can create space between you and your enemys.

I like the idea of it being a high risk, high reward kinnda ability, homing missiles wouldn´t go with that concept, but it might be cool in another vision of excalibur, that isn´t as melee focused as mine.^^

 

I don´t think Super charge is at all like Speed! it gives a very minor speed and attack speed buff, far less then both speed and warcry do, BUT it gives you something equally important in melee encounters that no other ability does, Stamina. Have you ever tried to fight an lvl 70 Heavy gunner melee style? If you charge him straight on, you´re dead before you get there, if you try and block to get close your stamina is empty in an heartbeat and again you find yourself in mortal danger. Super Charge helps with that, as it lets you block more carefree and maintain long hard hitting combos with it´s added channeling efficency! It is completely different to Speed!!!

The delay is the worst part of the skill, you lose control you effectively stun yourself, and you absolutely have to be exposed cause it dosen't fire thru walls - its a suicide move and you can't do anything about it. Thats why no one uses his ult. The self-stun delay has to go, cast animation time is enough. The damage is not even bad by default ( you can hit same target with couple javelins even) its the mechanics that makes the skill bad.

 

Who cares about stamina when you can slide and copter (which even knockdowns the enemies). I like the idea of a self-buff ability, but it needs something more unique and useful. 

[Crementine]

I wanna see Excalibro punching the ground with a Furax and spawns Furaxes at everyone's general directions. :v

[r0ckwolf]

You already have that weapon and do that damage, so you dont need a punny 500-1000 damge skill that costs you energy. It wouldn't be too much or too litlle, it would compliment the weapons you already have. It wont make new players OP either as they still have low-damage weapons.

 

you know that they changed Slash Dash to always use an Energy Skana and no longer your equipped melee weapon right?!