Not Here To White Knight Or Troll - But There Is Something Clearly Holding Us Back From Getting A Refined Game...

[ViLeDeth]

I believe there is a camp of players who do not understand what it takes to make a game (a fun one at that) but want to insure a slow and painful rework of needed fundamental changes.

 

 

One of these changes has to do with a DEFINED endgame difficulty which ties into the endgame experience.

DE has shown us, or at least me, they have it up "there." They have the talent and resources.

They just need the TIME - something users need to understand.

 

 

TIME.

 

 

DE needs it to make changes, reworks and extra goodies. But they lose time when they read threads that are detrimental to progress and they misunderstand the actual NEEDS of the community.

 

 

One of the needs is difficulty DEFINED. T4 keys will not solve the current difficulty paradigm issue of mob sponge fest kill spamming. It would only ensure the current difficulty paradigm stays stagnant and unrewarding when you are done.

 

This trivializes the whole idea of even making your weapon and frame strong - you are practically grinding to get Mastery Rank xp. You are making a weapon to help carry you in these missions to carry MR fodder weapons.

 

 

Then you get burnt out. Because Grind fest.

 

 

 

So, to the people who want T4, consider beyond the idea of T4 - consider that the whole game's difficulty scaling and feel isn't progressive or rewarding outside of MR/XP grinding. You can find mods in any map but you will be sitting in survivals/defense for most of your Warframe gameplay to get them.

 

You do not want T4, you want CHALLENGE. IF you ask for T4 in this current difficulty paradigm, you'll get crap again and still ask for T5. You may as well sit in T3 survival for over an hour and achieve your T4+ there without great reward.

 

 

 

 

These game modes (survival/defense) were never the foundation of Warfame, so we can't have DE consider a generic scaling system to solve the problem of users who hunger for clever challenge accompanied by consequences and a rewarding experience(with appropriate rewards to match).

 

 

You have to tell DE you want it to be worth the time to forma your weapons and Warframe so you can have a crazy experience only found in THIS GAME. Because they can do it, you just need to encourage them in this direction.

No quick fixes.

 

 

Another post that ties into difficulty: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235780-would-you-welcome-a-change-where/

 

Both these topics I've created are about experience and diversification of difficulty. This topic is about the general end game experience. The other a specific user experience against a faction.

 

The need here is CHALLENGE my friends.

 

[Renathy]

I'm just going to leave this here, not in a rude manner but just an actual fact: The community doesn't care. It's simple as that. They believe that this game is completely finished, and that developing a game is just as easy as snapping their fingers.

Edited May 24, 2014 by JRMC

[Ronin_Warder]

Guys, im just say one thing. OPEN BETA. Give it time and keep giving constructive feedback, that is our duty. Carry on! 

[Sasquatchias]

I'm just going to leave this here, and not in a rude manner but an actual fact: The community doesn't care. Simple as that. They believe, in their own imaginative rainbow world, that this game is completely finished. They also like to make themselves believe that developing a game is just as easy as snapping their fingers.

 

I care about the further development of this game.

[Archistopheles]

They're on the right track.

 

DE does a great job cherry-picking the forums for the stuff they're interested in. What we need to understand, as a community, is that we are not going to agree with every change; our job isn't to make the game, it's to guide the devs and show them the things they might be missing, but then also allow them to make the final decisions.

 

In other words: Vote with your wallet.

[Renathy]

I care about the further development of this game.

 

I did not mention any names, I am speaking in general.

[ViLeDeth]

I'm just going to leave this here, and not in a rude manner but an actual fact: The community doesn't care. Simple as that. They believe, in their own imaginative rainbow world, that this game is completely finished. They also like to make themselves believe that developing a game is just as easy as snapping their fingers.

 

Which is the reason why I posted this. It is an incredible denial of reality or ignorance that users express when they do not understand the inhouse pipeline and quality assurances of companies who do want to succeed.

[-Hemorrhage-]

I agree with most of whats said, however, this game is no longer in, "Open Beta." Anyone can download and play, anyone can spend money on the game, and there are no restrictions to access in anyway with no indications of a launch time (since its already launched) or official patch.

 

This entire open beta perception is a poor attitude for the community and devs, and its simply not true.

[achromos]

I support this greatly, I WANT challenge and I welcome any change necessary [as long as the game remains fun!!]

[vince445]

I care about the further development of this game.because i think the game shuod be exspanded to show how much the community cares if u disagree whith me then deal whith it

 

 

Edited May 24, 2014 by vince445

[Renathy]

I agree with most of whats said, however, this game is no longer in, "Open Beta." Anyone can download and play, anyone can spend money on the game, and there are no restrictions to access in anyway with no indications of a launch time (since its already launched) or official patch.

 

This entire open beta perception is a poor attitude for the community and devs, and its simply not true.

 

Open beta is open to everyone, and not a relative amount of chosen users. The market is also part of the experience. - They will work on it, when the time comes. You're not forced to spend any money on it, at all. Unlike many other games. But you see, Beta allow us to test, while experiencing the game. Many other free-to-play games that I have played that were on beta stages had ridiculous prices, small beta schedules, terrible updates, and whatever else that they could do to profit, while ignoring any of the community's feedback.

 

Nowadays games are used for solely one purpose: Money. Players have their share of fun, while having to pay for the company's income. Digital Extremes goes the other way around, providing the players with fun, constant updates and whatnot, and at the same time, they don't require you to forcibly spend your money.

Edited May 24, 2014 by JRMC

[JohnProdman]

Because making this post is going to clean up the forums and improve the quality of future threads.

 

Lol'd.

[ViLeDeth]

Because making this post is going to clean up the forums and improve the quality of future threads.

 

Lol'd.

 

No it is going to bring to light the issue we are facing when it comes to the direction we want to help usher DE towards. So that we all win.

 

Please refrain from trolling - I never stepped on your toes, I'm here to make sure you get the same benefits too.

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

What you've stated in your OP is basically what possibly is the biggest problem is with Early Access games. I could go on and on about what I think of the whole early access trend, but I'll focus on one portion of it, and that is player expectations.

 

For whatever reason, a lot of players I've seen that invest into early access titles simply do not realize that they are investing into what is technically an unfinished game, or if they do realize it, they don't realize that it is often in the very early stages of development and will likely take 2-3 years, if not more, for a game to actually be complete, which leads to players playing what little content there is to death, further leading to burnout and many of the original players leaving halfway through development, if not sooner.

 

Participating in early access isn't really for everyone. Hell, I've learned with my experience on Warframe that I probably shouldn't deal with early access games; I simply don't have the attention span, especially with so many more titles coming out that I'm eager to take a shot at, and I also have a severe case of burnout because of having eaten up content faster than they can make it. But, for those that can deal with early access well, then it can prove to be quite good, provided the developer continues to work on the game.

Edited May 24, 2014 by BizarreFetalChimpanzee

[Charismo]

People on this forum are DRASTICALLY overestimating how much of an influence they have on this game. They are in no way holding DE back from doing what they please, in the time they please. This game is not being designed by the community, no matter how much people seem to think it is. We may influence internal discussion, and I believe that's true. But the last word always comes from the developers.

 

Look at it this way: DE doesn't even ask Founders for meaningful feedback anymore. Founders, as in the people that payed money to have a chance to influence the future of the game, and have their own forum by which they expected to do so, are hardly asked their opinion, aside from cosmetic game additions. (Sounds, weapon models, etc) They used to ask our opinions on upcoming frames; not anymore. We're just as in the dark as everyone else as to what they are doing.

 

If anyone really thinks that a handful of people making sporadic post in the feedback forum have any kind of major sway on the direction this game takes, well, you're not right.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Charismo

[Data-Zero]

yup. I agree on OP post.

Also, what really annoys me and holds back the fun element is all the monkeys who tell you how you should play and use your warframe and weapons.

Would you kindly become Phorids chew toy? I wanna have some fun.

[f-e-a-r-s]

TL:DR - I want people (mostly the kind who just stands there and shoot) to be screwed over very badly for not being careful when fighting enemies or bosses. 

One particular proc effect that I feel could put players in a tight spot is Magnetism, being proc-ed by it will leave you with no energy, a scrambled hud and very little to no shields. Unfortunately, not many enemies are capable of this, the ones I know that are capable of this are Hyena Th, Corpus Shock Eximus, Ancient Disruptors and Loki Spectres when they use Radial Disarm. The most common to be encountered would be the Disruptors, but they aren't even that accurate with their tentacle arm... If a few more bosses or certain special units had the ability to disable players or put them at a disadvantage if they are not careful, things could get a lot more interesting. In short, carelessness will be severely punished.
 

Hell, maybe throw in a highly mobile boss that can only be damaged by hitting several weak points that each make up a portion of its health with the ability to disable, disorient, heavily damage or instakill you if you are not careful, hopefully not behind a grind wall as a 'special boss', and see how many people would try and go up against it. Bosses should make the players feel weak and helpless (but off course with still a few easy ones to make you think you have a chance) but still with a glimmer of hope of defeating it if they are patient and take their time to analyze it and devise a strategy, not "Oooh, I'm so powerful because I killed a highly immobile 'boss' with a lot of health by putting him under stasis and shooting at him non-stop with my decaforma'd Somaprimewraithdexvandaltron." And off course, I'm going to expect people going "Waaaahhh, boss X is too OP, please nerf!!! *sob*." after battling him about... one time and dying in 10 seconds because he just stood there and shot at it like it was CoD, that is -IF- such a boss were implemented anyway. 

But whatever happens, I'm going to ride it out and witness the outcome, because I just like seeing how things unfold for some reason.

Before any of you go "but implementing these things take time", yes, I'm aware that implementing new things in a game (and pretty much anything that requires coding for that matter which is why most game devs use ready built physics engines like Havok instead of scratch building one themselves) can take very long periods of time.

P.S. I rant when I'm deprived of sleep or under the effects of alcohol and may tend to... say things. I haven't slept for a day now.

Edited May 24, 2014 by f-e-a-r-s

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

+1000 OP

[slappy330]

I'm just gonna say...RNG.

*scurries away*

[f-e-a-r-s]

I'm just gonna say...RNG.

*scurries away*

Get the troll, kill it, KILL IT, before it gets away and lays eggs (Yes, trolls lay eggs. Mmmm, troll egg omelette, yummy.)!!!

[PookieNumnums]

i hope the difficulty and lvl of challenges presented continue to grow. i hate the idea of endgame for a game that has such potential and is continuously evolving.  they are completely reworking the ui again, ds maps, and how we experience the game. de puts in mad work. 

 

they need to just tune us out for a while and focus on whatever theyre .. um.. focused on.. lol

 

 

i become exponentially more excited with each devstream.

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

i hope the difficulty and lvl of challenges presented continue to grow. i hate the idea of endgame for a game that has such potential and is continuously evolving.  they are completely reworking the ui again, ds maps, and how we experience the game. de puts in mad work. 

Yeah. Personally, I think endgame should be the least of DE's worries right now, but that's for a whole other discussion, so I'll leave it at that before I derail this thread any further.

[slappy330]

Get the troll, kill it, KILL IT, before it gets away and lays eggs (Yes, trolls lay eggs. Mmmm, troll egg omelette, yummy.)!!!

Troll!? WHERE?! *gets gun and dons Elmer fuud hat*

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Let this thread be a beacon of gnarly goodness for our eyes to ogle.

 

I could say more, but it'd basically just be me repeating a lot of the first post in my own words, so I'll just give it an upvote and be on my merry way.

[DirkDeadeye]

T4 would be nice just to spread out the rewards. I don't care if it's a little harder, T3 isn't much anyway.