Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[OniDax]

Letter13, please close this thread like you closed the other one.

[Authion]

With permission from [DE]Drew to re open this thread, I'm making the simple request of keep this discussion civil, constructive, and polite.

 

Lato and skana prime are both founder weapons that will not be release again as DE pretty much signed an agreement with the founders that they would stay exclusive and never be released again, this did not include the akimbo and dual variants of the weapons, Aklato and Dual skana, therefore, these could be released and no one would be able to decline such a thing as these are not part of the founder exclusive items, these could have similar build requirements to the basic dual skana, and the materials to build two standard latos, mixed in with prime parts generic requirements of 10 orokin cells or argon crystals. this would be entirely acceptable as a way to fix people's issues with the exclusive weapons from so long ago. 

 

I myself do not care for either of these weapons, nor the akimbo/dual variants, the discussion is general and is to spark a debate, please accept the apology I offer for the state of the last thread, now lets have a clean, constructive discussion about these items.

 

*I will request censorship for rude behaviour and insults.*

 

edit: typo

Then i'll give you a fix for your broken fix

1. DE can release the single Lato Prime & Skana prime (parts&BP) into the void for the crying baby tennos

2. DE give all founders (Grandmaster) an Exclusive already made Aklato Prime & Dual Skana Prime (+catalyst +wep slot),

founders (Master) only get the dual skana prime

there..

everyone got their gold toys

everyone happy :D

Edited June 6, 2014 by Authion

[DJ_Redwire]

Then i'll give you a fix for your broken fix

1. DE can release the single Lato Prime & Skana prime (parts&BP) into the void for the crying baby tennos

2. DE give all founders (Grandmaster) an Exclusive already made Aklato Prime & Dual Skana Prime (+catalyst +wep slot),

founders (Master) only get the dual skana prime

there..

everyone got their gold toys

everyone happy :D

 

...followed shortly by non-founders people wanting the dual versions too. Giving people hand outs never fixes the problem. At some point you just have to put your foot down and say enough. DE has done that. It's time to move on.

[TennoSimons]

Why would it be?

 

Why wouldn't it be?

 

I just don't get this. If you actually like your skana and lato prime, why wouldn't you want dual versions of these weapons? Just more mastery for you, and the same weapon in single version would remain as exclusive and rare as ever?

 

I suppose I can see the argument that their exclusivity would have somewhat less sheen if people can get a better version of the same thing (presuming that ak - dual versions are better than their single counterparts - which they usually are). But instead, because of fear of the outrage of many founders, you will never see these weapons. Congrats to you!

 

I love my Skana Prime and would love to see a dual version of it someday.

 

 

 

Regardless...

 

I would find implementation of this pretty offensive to the efforts of the founders and the program. I'm not completely agaisnt it, but I would not want hte weapons to make the singular versions completely obselete.

 

Instead I suggest making the founder equipment tradeable.

 

 

 

...this proposal makes perfect sense. 

[dragonkingdx]

Why wouldn't it be?

 

I just don't get this. If you actually like your skana and lato prime, why wouldn't you want dual versions of these weapons? Just more mastery for you, and the same weapon in single version would remain as exclusive and rare as ever?

 

I suppose I can see the argument that their exclusivity would have somewhat less sheen if people can get a better version of the same thing (presuming that ak - dual versions are better than their single counterparts - which they usually are). But instead, because of fear of the outrage of many founders, you will never see these weapons. Congrats to you!

 

I love my Skana Prime and would love to see a dual version of it someday.

 

 

 

Regardless...

 

 

 

 

...this proposal makes perfect sense. 

 

 

The proposal for trade is the worst idea of them all lol. Founders have complained about them being exclusively theirs. Complaining that it breaks the spirit of it for it to be owned by anyone else but a founder because they "payed to support the future of the game"(unlikely as you would need to donate without getting anything in return for that to solely be the reason, for many it was the items that were the driving point/plat/DC)

 

Put simply by being tradable you say screw the exclusivity for us.You can have it as long as we the founders make plat off of it. Whats more that does go against the agreement that the weapons were only for the founders and would never be re released to anyone else. By agreeing that you would like them to be tradable you therefore say the weapons did not mean much so now everyone should be allowed to get it. (oh wait but for a price that would be decided by the founders) It would violate the spirit that many founders say they believe in.

 

(though legally spirit doesn't mean crap on contract or promise as wording is key. However some do have rights to claim that but in a nutshell it doesn't exactly mean its an absolute reason to not do something)

Edited June 6, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[Valiant]

The proposal for trade is the worst idea of them all lol.

Actually, trading isn't the worst idea at all. It's close to one of the more positive ones. It doesn't really use any 'loopholes' either.

 

It is put in the hands of the owners who can ultimately decide the exclusivity. Regardless of whether it can be exploited, they're still 'exclusive'. The number isn't increasing, they would just be in circulation like anything else you find today. I'm pretty sure most founders wouldn't really give two damns about what other founders are doing with their exclusives. I certainly wouldn't.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Naith

[MerelyARumor]

Put simply by being tradable you say screw the exclusivity for us.You can have it as long as we the founders make plat off of it. Whats more that does go against the agreement that the weapons were only for the founders and would never be re released to anyone else. 

making tradeable =/= re-releasing

 

 

giving power to the founders whether they want there exclusives, or a ton of plat , or to help there friends get mastery points , not so bad? lol

Edited June 6, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[dragonkingdx]

Actually, trading isn't the worst idea at all. It's close to one of the more positive ones. It doesn't really use any 'loopholes' either.

 

It is put in the hands of the owners who can ultimately decide the exclusivity. Regardless of whether it can be exploited, they're still 'exclusive'. The number isn't increasing, they would just be in circulation.

They are no longer exclusive as exclusive means restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned. The founders are a group, hence its exclusive to them. As only they were able to obtain them. Putting it on the market makes it no different then a higher valued item (examples being event mods/arcane helms) You do not maintain exclusivity when you do that. As now ANYONE can have it, which means its no longer restricted to a set group. Besides that your asking for the trade of weapons/Warframe which is ridiculous. As then what would be the point of lvling weapons/farming individual parts if you can just get the weapon and not have to wait for the construction time? Beyond that why wouldnt you just buy it in a market then? If you want to make weapons tradable it would have to be for all weapons. (and lets add the fact that people who have those weaps probably formad cata'd and lvled those weaps over and over)

 

making tradeable =/= re-releasing

 

 

giving power to the founders whether they want there exclusives, or a ton of plat , or to help there friends get mastery points , not so bad? lol

 

Well explain that to them who seem to complain over the spirit of the deal DE made with them. Its either that deal means nothing or it means something. Cant have it both ways. If they want that then might as well release the founders pack for cheaper (since your literally not getting anything good but just paying for shiny) And I highly doubt founders would want that.

 

Founders should not complain about wanting it exclusive for them and only them, then say ah well we can compromise if we get something out of it. That's literally just selling out and contradicting their own beliefs.

Edited June 6, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[MerelyARumor]

more like spirit of greedy milk...

 

they still have there fancy icons and whatnot

[Ionus]

more like spirit of greedy milk...

 

they still have there fancy icons and whatnot

 

I don't think I would like my $100 investment to degrade into a fancy picture that I don't use, thanks.

[Mesyra]

There are currently no active plans to add dual versions of the exclusive primes. However, constructive discussion is always appreciated.

From DE as a message in response to my query about reopening my thread, so please stop assuming that these ARE going to be released, and on another note, there is too much hostility, instead of the no this is bad, say no this is bad, because... Or yes this is good because... Okay? And please, no more narcissism, it's immature, this thread is solely for discussion, nothing more until someone official makes a comment about a yes or a no.

[dragonboss]

What is this?

 

Let the Founder exclusive stay exclusive.

 

Releasing founder items to the general masses just makes us people who paid for plat, like anyone else and that to me is a giant middle finger. This should also include all selling and trading.

 

We closed beta tested and suggested fixes AND showed our support with our wallets. The devs decided to reward us for showing support and also inviting our friends to play when nobody knew about the game.

 

Why should this reward be made moot just because somebody wants mastery points for only God-knows-what? or because they have to collect them all?

 

Making a dual version, which would arguably be better than what we have now(which isn't that good anyway), would be a galactic size middle finger to founders. I seriously don't know why this thread is even a thing.

Edited June 6, 2014 by dragonboss

[Valiant]

They are no longer exclusive as exclusive means restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned. The founders are a group, hence its exclusive to them. As only they were able to obtain them. Putting it on the market makes it no different then a higher valued item (examples being event mods/arcane helms) You do not maintain exclusivity when you do that. As now ANYONE can have it, which means its no longer restricted to a set group. Besides that your asking for the trade of weapons/Warframe which is ridiculous. As then what would be the point of lvling weapons/farming individual parts if you can just get the weapon and not have to wait for the construction time? Beyond that why wouldnt you just buy it in a market then? If you want to make weapons tradable it would have to be for all weapons. (and lets add the fact that people who have those weaps probably formad cata'd and lvled those weaps over and over)

It would still be exclusive. They aren't increasing in number. It'd just be exclusive to those who want it. It would still be limited. I see it as still maintaining its 'exclusive' side.

 

Not sure how that is ridiculous, it's one Warframe, one pistol and one melee weapon, not every single weapon and warframe. Don't blow it out of proportion with odd examples and suggestions. Releasing it in the market is very different so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Naith

[Azawarau]

Sometimes i get the feeling in threads like these that people purposely go against eing civil for the sake of getting the thread locked

 

Letter13, please close this thread like you closed the other one.

 

Things like this^ arent helping

 

You cause the problem then get it locked because its easier than being civil and you can with no consequences

[dragonkingdx]

It would still be exclusive. They aren't increasing in number. It'd just be exclusive to those who want it. It would still be limited. I see it as still maintaining its 'exclusive' side.

 

Not sure how that is ridiculous, it's one Warframe, one pistol and one melee weapon, not every single weapon and warframe. Don't blow it out of proportion with odd examples and suggestions. Releasing it in the market is very different so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

It doesn't match the definition of exclusive though if its released to all. Its exclusive as long as they will not be released to anyone besides the people who bought them. When the item is shared between people that did not buy it with the terms of it being exclusive and shall never be re released the item itself loses that exclusive tag.

 

I used the example before if they are put in the market to be traded then they are just as exclusive as event mods. (those event mods will be re released eventually and carry no promise of being exclusive) They become just another high value sold out for plat item. There are a limited amount yes and that amount wont change. However just because there is a limited amount does not make it exclusive. Having a set group that it belongs to and will only ever belong to makes it exclusive.

 

An example would be joining a high end club and having a membership that allows you to use special areas of the facility. The only ones who can use those special areas would be the members. Anyone who is not a member would not have access to use that area. If your not one of the special members you cannot use it making those special areas exclusive only to those who have that membership. With them not accepting any new members (as the special facility has a capacity) its tough luck you cant use the special facilities. Once you let other people use those special facilities it no longer will be exclusive to that set group. As then anyone could use them. Though still the facilities can only hold a certain amount of people it will not change the fact that its no longer exclusive to the members who paid for that privilege. Thats how the founder system works now. Special membership people=founders, special facilities=gear, occupancy limit in facilities=number of gears.

 

The ridiculous part is that you would just be eventually selling completed stuff you can farm. (which you could just get in the market for plat) Because if you were to have such a system installed it would not stop at founders items. People will want more and more. And again you would have to deal with the hurdle that people forma and cata/reactor equips. I doubt highly that a founder would have a unranked one of those exclusive equips that have not been forma'd. So you deal with additional hurdles which makes the idea ridiculous.

Edited June 6, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[OniDax]

Sometimes i get the feeling in threads like these that people purposely go against eing civil for the sake of getting the thread locked

 

 

Things like this^ arent helping

 

You cause the problem then get it locked because its easier than being civil and you can with no consequences

 

It's not a discussion on exclusive in general. It's a discussion on founders stuff, and a different form of founders stuff, and it's not coming back.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Err, sorry hun but thats a NO from my part. Skana and Lato Primes are exclusives, be them Solo or made Dual versions.

 

This is very true. However, if DE let founders get the weapons with a potato in them via Lotus, it'd be cool.

[Azawarau]

It's not a discussion on exclusive in general. It's a discussion on founders stuff, and a different form of founders stuff, and it's not coming back.

Its a discussion on a solution for the issue

 

OP suggested something that might appease people that didnt get founders that wont affect the founders

 

Theres no reason to even bring up the other items as if thats what hes talking about

[Eidolon_Slayer]

No, lato prime and skana prime are exclusive, releasing akimbo versions of them, should never be implemented. 

[Yezzik]

Now here's an impasse and a half. One side thinks Aklato should be considered a different item entirely, the other disagrees.

 

Could always try the skin-like idea I had as a compromise.

 

Example: You have the Braton equipped. You can flip between the Braton, MK1-Braton, Vandal and Prime appearances between matches, but it's the same weapon regardless and the stats don't change. That way the Founder items are no better or worse mechanically than their cousins, AND it helps consolidate a lot of the crazy weapon bloat we have right now with three or four versions of a load of different weapons all over the place.

 

And to compensate for DE losing the ability to sell as many weapon slots to people, they could start selling slots for different weapon models like what the Braton Prime would become.

 

So how's that for a compromise? The Founders get to keep their exclusive Lato Prime, everyone else's Lato is as powerful as the Prime version, and the Mastery between the two camps is further equalised. Someone's inevitably going to argue that Primes should be straight upgrades to their normal variants, but that's how this argument kept going in the first place.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Yezzik

[dragonkingdx]

Now here's an impasse and a half. One side thinks Aklato should be considered a different item entirely, the other disagrees.

 

Could always try the skin-like idea I had as a compromise.

 

Example: You have the Braton equipped. You can flip between the Braton, MK1-Braton, Vandal and Prime appearances between matches, but it's the same weapon regardless and the stats don't change. That way the Founder items are no better or worse mechanically than their cousins, AND it helps consolidate a lot of the crazy weapon bloat we have right now with three or four versions of a load of different weapons all over the place.

 

And to compensate for DE losing the ability to sell as many weapon slots to people, they could start selling slots for different weapon models like what the Braton Prime would become.

 

So how's that for a compromise? The Founders get to keep their exclusive Lato Prime, everyone else's Lato is as powerful as the Prime version, and the Mastery between the two camps is further equalised. Someone's inevitably going to argue that Primes should be straight upgrades to their normal variants, but that's how this argument kept going in the first place.

then founders complain that they share the same look. Which is basically what they are already doing with dual versions

[Azawarau]

Now here's an impasse and a half. One side thinks Aklato should be considered a different item entirely, the other disagrees.

 

Could always try the skin-like idea I had as a compromise.

 

Example: You have the Braton equipped. You can flip between the Braton, MK1-Braton, Vandal and Prime appearances between matches, but it's the same weapon regardless and the stats don't change. That way the Founder items are no better or worse mechanically than their cousins, AND it helps consolidate a lot of the crazy weapon bloat we have right now with three or four versions of a load of different weapons all over the place.

 

And to compensate for DE losing the ability to sell as many weapon slots to people, they could start selling slots for different weapon models like what the Braton Prime would become.

 

So how's that for a compromise? The Founders get to keep their exclusive Lato Prime, everyone else's Lato is as powerful as the Prime version, and the Mastery between the two camps is further equalised. Someone's inevitably going to argue that Primes should be straight upgrades to their normal variants, but that's how this argument kept going in the first place.

I myself consider them different weapons entirely

 

Even the MK1-Braton and Braton Prime are different weapons

 

The issue is alot of founder defenders (labelled? Sound weird) dont want to compromise at all

 

Much like PvP and anti nerf and such

Edited June 7, 2014 by Azawarau

[Yezzik]

Trust me, I know from personal experience; there's some people who have absolutely no interest in trying to compromise--it's their way or not at all, and I've made these topics myself only to get stonewalled by "no get over it."

Simply disabling Focus in PvP--assuming it ends up being the only Mastery-based system that affects gameplay--is enough for me, but if we can just nuke all the gameplay differences and make things like the Lato Prime purely cosmetic, then that's a huge chunk of these topics rendered irrelevant.

[RoboDoge]

Simple solution on this is:

 

DE should offer poll for Founders that is giving A) Founder items are coming back or B) Founder items are not coming back. With few simple rules. One of them being that more than 50 % must vote for this poll to be in effect, and second one that there must be over 2/3 of votes for one of the option for option to be effective.

[dragonkingdx]

Simple solution on this is:

 

DE should offer poll for Founders that is giving A) Founder items are coming back or B) Founder items are not coming back. With few simple rules. One of them being that more than 50 % must vote for this poll to be in effect, and second one that there must be over 2/3 of votes for one of the option for option to be effective.

The problem with that is that there are too many who will go "this shiny thing is mine so screw everyone else MINE" Many will not even try to weigh the actual situation and reasons behind both sides at all. (though no one really is asking for founders stuff to be re released. More from the thread of a variant that founders can enjoy along with other people)

 

When you have such polls like that ignorance and petty childishness come into play. Thats why decisions like that are better left to DE who would weigh the arguments and the opinions then make a choice (like being the judge and jury) As they are a business and do have some understanding of both sides (hence this thread was allowed because they can see a point in one side over the other founders who may cry no without really trying to think)